Suggestions to help with the Name Release Deilemma

[Mr. Apocalypse]

 

I was reading this thread about a name purge and it got me thinking. I am also a victim of name camping, and would like a mechanism in place to at least to try to liberate my old name. even if it were 100% unsuccessful, I would like to try to sort it out directly with the individual sitting on the name. I think this opens up a system where it can be done fairly without opening up anyone to harassment.

 

What if there was a set of check boxes at character creation that could make this kinda work for everyone without forcing it on anyone. I came up with this last night while I was kinda baked, but here it goes.

 

1. A check box  to opt into/out of the name release program.  (the way the system as advertised already) This will make the system in place completely voluntary.

2. A check box to automatically request an individual name release via @global, anonymously during name selection..

• This request will be a 1 time per 30 days event regardless of naming attempts.
• If the person chooses to release the name, it can be taken by anyone within that 30 day period.  But only the account initiating the request will be notified by the system of name release.
• If the name is not taken, within 30 days it is locked again.
• Notification for release will only be sent if character sitting on the name is not LVL 35+?, has not been logged in 180 days. and possibly other flags

3. checkbox to automatically reject all incoming name release requests

 

 

any account that has not been accessed in 180 days is automatically opted into the system unless they have made these selection, this will open up the day 1 name campers that have since gone away and are no longer playing the game.

 

 

Poke holes at it, tell me what you like, what you hate. Like I said, I just want a fair mechanic in place that allows an attempt at freeing up a name, even if the end result is being told no by the person sitting on the name..

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

[Greycat]

You can get the @global already... just /geglobalname whatsisface and it will return @thatguyoverthere or whatever the global is. You can then email them. Just so you know.

 

(Also, frankly, I'm still of the mind that it'd be better to free/not free by account. But that's apparently a no go.)

[Mr. Apocalypse]

28 minutes ago, Greycat said:

You can get the @global already... just /geglobalname whatsisface and it will return @thatguyoverthere or whatever the global is. You can then email them. Just so you know.

 

(Also, frankly, I'm still of the mind that it'd be better to free/not free by account. But that's apparently a no go.)

I know it can be done via ingame e-mail. I have done this on occasion.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of making it more upfront for everyone, and esier to access for newbies.  While also allowing less of a burden  to be placed upon the person holding the name.

Edited April 28 by Mr. Apocalypse

[Rudra]

I have to agree with @Mr. Apocalypse. At least the OP is a better system than the current one (that fortunately is still waiting to be activated as far as I can tell) in my opinion. Being able to play my characters at my leisure and possibly come to an agreement with someone else about releasing an alt's name sounds much better to me than I have to constantly cycle my characters every month regardless of how many I have or risk losing that character's name until absolutely every character I have is level 50.

[macskull]

To the OP: have you tried to talk to the person holding the name? How do you know this person is “camping” your name?

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, macskull said:

To the OP: have you tried to talk to the person holding the name? How do you know this person is “camping” your name?

 

yeah what if the person likes the name and intends to play it to 50?

[Mr. Apocalypse]

3 hours ago, macskull said:

To the OP: have you tried to talk to the person holding the name? How do you know this person is “camping” your name?

In the my particular case, I found the global and sent numerous e-mails never got a response. Either 1.)I was ignored, the name was being camped, 2.) name was camped, or 3.) legit toon, but player no longer playing.  Been doing this for last 3 years. I can say, for what it's worth, I have never in that time ran across that name in game.

39 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

 

yeah what if the person likes the name and intends to play it to 50?

The way I have envisioned the features a simple checkbox prevents you from ever losing the name.  But you can however, while still having complete protection, enable the ability to receive a name release request , if you chose.

 

 

[tidge]

I can almost appreciate the suggestion for being a a sort of "well maybe you (player) don't really want the name you chose to use"... ultimately I think so little would come out of it that this "one simple change" would have no meaningful impact.

 

I'm going to rewrite a couple of things I usually add to "free up my name" threads:

• Any specific character name could have just as much (or more!) sentimental value to someone else. Avoid a victim mentality.

It is impossible to know the thoughts and feelings of another player. I well remember on the days of Live (and to a lesser extent on HC) wanting to recreate a beloved character from one server on another, and finding the name was taken. I felt a temporary pain of loss, but I realized that such a player would feel the same if migrating to the server where I was using the name.

• We players really can exercise some  creativity.

Writing only for myself, I appreciate seeing clever, well-considered names. I am confident that I have some character names on one HC shard that somebody would want... this confidence is born from playing specific characters in a rather public way, and within weeks seeing several near clones in name and sometimes costume. I've gotten direct comments from other players on my newest characters along the lines of "I'm disappointed I didn't think of that name".

 

Personally: I have a rather small roster of characters I play. Among them are level 50s with thousands of merits accumulated... and yet despite rarely playing them now, it is extremely unlikely that I'd give up their names to a seemingly random request from another player. My first instinct, right or wrong, would be to think "I've had this character for years, why do I think this random person would be a better keeper of the name?"

[Mr. Apocalypse]

4 hours ago, tidge said:

I can almost appreciate the suggestion for being a a sort of "well maybe you (player) don't really want the name you chose to use"... ultimately I think so little would come out of it that this "one simple change" would have no meaningful impact.

 

I'm going to rewrite a couple of things I usually add to "free up my name" threads:

• Any specific character name could have just as much (or more!) sentimental value to someone else. Avoid a victim mentality.

It is impossible to know the thoughts and feelings of another player. I well remember on the days of Live (and to a lesser extent on HC) wanting to recreate a beloved character from one server on another, and finding the name was taken. I felt a temporary pain of loss, but I realized that such a player would feel the same if migrating to the server where I was using the name.

• We players really can exercise some  creativity.

Writing only for myself, I appreciate seeing clever, well-considered names. I am confident that I have some character names on one HC shard that somebody would want... this confidence is born from playing specific characters in a rather public way, and within weeks seeing several near clones in name and sometimes costume. I've gotten direct comments from other players on my newest characters along the lines of "I'm disappointed I didn't think of that name".

 

Personally: I have a rather small roster of characters I play. Among them are level 50s with thousands of merits accumulated... and yet despite rarely playing them now, it is extremely unlikely that I'd give up their names to a seemingly random request from another player. My first instinct, right or wrong, would be to think "I've had this character for years, why do I think this random person would be a better keeper of the name?"

Again, my suggested changes would not in any way stop someone from continuing to feel and act this way.

 

what it would do:

1. allow for someone to ask for an in use name to be requested., and get a reply back from they system as to yes or no.
2.  if you are attached to name, click checkbox name is yours forever. Not to attached?- then entertain requests to give it up.
3.  Lvl 50?, you will never be asked to relinquish the name
4. . if your account is no longer in use (devs would decide time limit), perhaps 365 days of no log in activity then all your names are up for grabs per the system in place based upon toon level.

I am only looking for a system to be in place to allow us the opportunity to attempt getting a name we want, from someone who potentially doesn't care if they lose the name.  It would allow those that like things as they are to opt out all together, with the exception of loosing name protection due to long term account inactivity.  It would also force some sort of reply back to the person making the request, which would prevent further attempts to gain the name that could be seen as harassment.

 

 

[Ghost]

I really can’t see an instance where someone would check the box saying they’d be willing to give up the name.

Maybe I’m wrong.

Once I name a toon, last thing I think about is ever giving it up.  At that moment, it’s the greatest toon I have - and I’m extremely proud of everything from the powerset, to the costume, to the name.

Once I’ve played it awhile and moved on to the next greatest ton, I’d be willing to discuss the name.  But before that, I can’t imagine coming up with a better toon.

[tidge]

44 minutes ago, Mr. Apocalypse said:

I am only looking for a system to be in place to allow us the opportunity to attempt getting a name we want, from someone who potentially doesn't care if they lose the name.  It would allow those that like things as they are to opt out all together, with the exception of loosing name protection due to long term account inactivity.  It would also force some sort of reply back to the person making the request, which would prevent further attempts to gain the name that could be seen as harassment.

 

I get a sense that the OP is trying to come to some method by which there is an fractionally greater chance that they could maybe(*1) get a name they want from someone else who got to it before them... but what I am reading (and I admit, this is not what is exactly written!) is that there is a multiple aspects of entitlement:

• being entitled to a name
• being entitled to know that the person who already has the name either: wants the name (they already have) or knows that somebody else also wants the name.

The PM/email is something of a red herring, because I think we already have the option to ignore PM/emails, and even if a checkbox is implemented people could still send PM/emails (presumably to ask "please uncheck the box").

 

(*1) Unwritten in a lot of the hypotheticals for getting names released is the very likely circumstance that more than two players are interested in the same name. Each player after the first person to use the name feels the same.

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

If I was the designing the Name Release System I think I'd only make one change from what the devs have stated. I wouldn't give 50's infinite time, I'd reduce that to 36 months (3 years).

 

I think that if you haven't logged on with your character in 3 years then it's safe to say that you're not using that name anymore.

[Excraft]

On 4/28/2024 at 12:33 PM, Mr. Apocalypse said:

I would like to try to sort it out directly with the individual sitting on the name

 

That's how it should be done if that account is still active.  No one should be forced to give up a name if they're still actively logging in and playing.  If they're active, they're reachable in game and can be negotiated with to release a desired name.  If they don't want to release it, they shouldn't have to.  I don't think we need an automated system of emails for any of that.  Just use the slash command, get the global of the person who has a name you're looking for and PM/email them in game.

 

With that said, this name release thing should be run on inactive accounts only that haven't logged into the game in literal years.  If you haven't logged in for more than 3 years, you've abandoned the account and the names on it are up for grabs. 

 

Alternatively, changing the way names works to make it the combo of charactername@global like Cryptic did in their Version 2.0 engine would solve any name issues and everyone could have any character name they want with no worries about whether its taken or not.

[Mr. Apocalypse]

6 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

I get a sense that the OP is trying to come to some method by which there is an fractionally greater chance that they could maybe(*1) get a name they want from someone else who got to it before them... but what I am reading (and I admit, this is not what is exactly written!) is that there is a multiple aspects of entitlement:

• being entitled to a name
• being entitled to know that the person who already has the name either: wants the name (they already have) or knows that somebody else also wants the name.

The PM/email is something of a red herring, because I think we already have the option to ignore PM/emails, and even if a checkbox is implemented people could still send PM/emails (presumably to ask "please uncheck the box").

 

(*1) Unwritten in a lot of the hypotheticals for getting names released is the very likely circumstance that more than two players are interested in the same name. Each player after the first person to use the name feels the same.

 

You are in fact 100% missing the point.

 

I am only looking for a way to give both sides something they want to end the discussion. Allow those that want to actively camp a name have it, use it, do whatever with it they so please, and the ability to check box the name to be theirs forever.  full stop end. But also allow those who want a name that is taken an opportunity to find out if someone is using it, or has it been taken and forgotten about,. Or Possibly if an early now inactive account is camping that name possibly freeing up those names based upon the current policy that isn't turned on currently.

 

I don't desire any name that another person has, beyond my main wanting his "." back in his name "Mr. Apocalypse" This is only something that popped into my head after reading all the back and forth in the other thread which I linked to in the OP.  In my case I tried the email the global rout, never received a reply, and I think I have sent close to 25 messages in the last couple of years. I suspect in my case, the name it was grabbed up, without any intention of being used, and now the account is defunct.  So the name is locked away forever until some system is in place to free it up! All I suggest is a fair system to try, and because it generates an automated reply, to know if I am trying to talk to a wall, being ignored, or if the person would even consider.

 

from your comments you seem to be under the impression I want something that belongs to another,. Or that somehow I feel entitled to it, nothing could be further from the truth.

 

 

[Excraft]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Apocalypse said:

In my case I tried the email the global rout, never received a reply, and I think I have sent close to 25 messages in the last couple of years. I suspect in my case, the name it was grabbed up, without any intention of being used, and now the account is defunct.

 

What if the person just doesn't want to reply or is blocking emails from anyone not on their friends list?   Lack of response doesn't necessarily mean the account is inactive, although it could be. 

[tidge]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Apocalypse said:

You are in fact 100% missing the point.

 

I am only looking for a way to give both sides something they want to end the discussion. Allow those that want to actively camp a name have it, use it, do whatever with it they so please, and the ability to check box the name to be theirs forever.  full stop end. But also allow those who want a name that is taken an opportunity to find out if someone is using it, or has it been taken and forgotten about,. Or Possibly if an early now inactive account is camping that name possibly freeing up those names based upon the current policy that isn't turned on currently.

 

This is the current state of affairs.

 

This is the part of the suggestion that feels slightly entitled to me. If the proposed box is checked, all anyone will know is "did someone check a box?". It won't impart any special knowledge if the character is "being used" (maybe it is just holding inf, salvage or enhancements?) or if has been "forgotten about."

 

Don't get me wrong: I think the person who took the name first is entitled to it, I simply cannot think of a better measure than this. I also don't see what the big deal is about not having any form of communication with someone else... who happens to have taken a name that someone else wants. As @Ghost wrote: Why would a player not check the box that they want the name they just came up with?

 

[Fire Chief]

 

[Mr. Apocalypse]

14 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

This is the current state of affairs.

 

This is the part of the suggestion that feels slightly entitled to me. If the proposed box is checked, all anyone will know is "did someone check a box?". It won't impart any special knowledge if the character is "being used" (maybe it is just holding inf, salvage or enhancements?) or if has been "forgotten about."

 

Don't get me wrong: I think the person who took the name first is entitled to it, I simply cannot think of a better measure than this. I also don't see what the big deal is about not having any form of communication with someone else... who happens to have taken a name that someone else wants. As @Ghost wrote: Why would a player not check the box that they want the name they just came up with?

 

To the first part.. perhaps a message, user has received your request and has declined to release this name. it is now locked. Maybe the next person to try, gets message that all name release requests have been blocked or something. or that account is inactive and the name has automatically been released.  Think same system in place with a few opt in/out  decisions and some system messages so people aren't beholden to an e-mail reply that may never come for whatever reason

 

For the second part about just checking the box, maybe a level threshold of 10 or certain number of hours played before you can lock in the name or something.

 

I don't claim to have all the answers to how it would work, my hope was that people would come together with functional ideas of how to make something work, rather than people that have no intent on using any proposed system trying to tear it down as a dumb idea of the "entitled".

 

I'm done now, I wasn't trying to defend a thesis. It was just a late night smoked a bunch of weed idea!

[Yomo Kimyata]

Countersuggestion:  once a name is created it is permanently invalidated.  I can’t speak for why name campers (and I’m flabbergasted that current devs can name them) do what they do.  But it’s easy enough to make something new.  It sucks if you have a personal connection to it.  Probably the person who owns it does too.

 

unless the devs choose to cut back on the thousand names per server.  That makes total sense and the only objection I could see is if one of the other devs were the campers

[Player2]

Let's just do away with in-game names altogether.  Everyone gets assigned the generic "Hero" or "Villain" title and can call themselves what they want behind the scenes.

 

/t Hero, Nice costume.

/t Hero, -> Thanks... again.  You've told me that like 30 times already.

/t Hero, Wasn't me, I just logged in.

/t Hero, -> That's what you said the last couple dozen times.

/y Hero, I think you're confusing me with Hero.

 

 

Just imagine the chaos in the General chat channel.

[UltraAlt]

On 4/28/2024 at 12:33 PM, Mr. Apocalypse said:

I am also a victim of name camping, and would like a mechanism in place to at least to try to liberate my old name.

 

You are not a victim.

Do  you have any evidence that the name is being camped?

How often does a player have to play a character before it is "camped"?

 

On 4/28/2024 at 12:33 PM, Mr. Apocalypse said:

even if it were 100% unsuccessful, I would like to try to sort it out directly with the individual sitting on the name.

 

It is against the Code of Conduct to harass other players.

If you have a copyright on the name, then take it up with the GMs.

 

On 4/28/2024 at 12:33 PM, Mr. Apocalypse said:

Poke holes at it, tell me what you like, what you hate.

 

I feel that the basic mechanics of it would take far too long to program.

 

Being the first person to try to "name camp" a name that might be released is definitely "name camping".

So, no. If this was implemented, the first person to try to - using your terms - "liberate" a name shouldn't get an email letting them know that they can now try to take that name that they have been "name camping" to get if it was released.

 

The DEVs have said more than once that they do not have a way how long it has been since an account has been logged in. They can only tell how long it has been since a character has been logged in.

I think year is a good standard for timing (for releasing of all character names including those characters that are level 50 - if this it ever happens.)

 

I'm not sure where this arbitrary 180-Days comes from if your stance is ...

 

On 4/28/2024 at 12:33 PM, Mr. Apocalypse said:

this will open up the day 1 name campers that have since gone away and are no longer playing the game.

 

If that is the case, then it should be years and not 180-days.

 

First you say,

 

On 4/28/2024 at 12:33 PM, Mr. Apocalypse said:

What if there was a set of check boxes at character creation that could make this kinda work for everyone without forcing it on anyone

 

... but then you "force" it on people that don't go through their character list and pick yea or nay on your new option.

 

I understand you may feel a connection to a name, but that doesn't mean that it is yours unless you have a copyright on it.

In fact when you created that name in City of Heroes, you gave the rights to that character to NCSoft. It said so in the EULA and TOS.

 

I know that I try to log in all my characters within 60-days just to avoid any kind of renaming scheme (plus marketing).

 

Are there are there a lot of names tied up in inactive accounts that were made within 6 months or before Homecoming came out of the shadows?

Sure. I don't think anyone is arguing that. 

 

I'm not trying to protect the players that came into the game and used their 1000's of slots to make 1000's of level 1 characters with "cool" names.

So perhaps those that are trying to push for name release, should push for the release of level 1 characters (only) first before going after character names on characters that have actually been played.

[Doc Hornet]

21 hours ago, Fire Chief said:

 

That was me, Fire Chief. What happened I think highlights the complexities of name release policies and how Player A can never really be sure of what Player B's doing with a wanted name.

From your perspective, it probably looked like I was a name camper. I had "your" name. I wasn't responding to emails. Was I even still playing COH? 

Even more name camping-ish, although you didn't know it, my Fire Chief character was created 5/178/2019, putting me in the running to be considered a Day 1 name camper per the OP. (This puts it what, 15 months before you found COH Homecoming?)

The reality was something different. I'd simply created a character I liked and gave it an available name I liked. I was playing Fire Chief in regular rotation with my other alts, according to both spirit and letter of HC name policy. I ignored/deleted your emails the same I do all in-game emails from players I don't know. I hadn’t read them and didn’t even remember receiving them.

So, I was completely unaware that you even wanted the name. Only the fac that I happened to read earlier forum posts by you about your lost global name (and managed to remember I'd read it) and then happened to see your toon forming up for a Posi TF when I was standing there in Steel Canyon led me to connect the dots and my sending you a tell asking if you wanted the name. And only because it was your global name as opposed to just some run-of-the-mill name wanted.

Neither the current Homecoming name policy or the OP's suggested policy would have freed up your name. I was playing my toon per HC policy. I would have simply clicked the OP's checkbox to keep it (every 30 days? on every individual toon? really? ). And if some draconian policy had managed to strip it from me, odds are Player C would have snagged it up before you could anyway.

The ONLY solution to the contentions name issue is transitioning to what Cryptic did with tis COH 1.5 game engine used for CO and Star Trek Online: non-unique display names tied to global handles. STO has been live for fourteen years. Number of "Name Purge" demands on STO forums? Zero. (The only time you see the global portion of a toon's name is in the chat box. It's a pretty non-intrusive system.)

I don't know if it's even possible to rework COH 1.0 game engine to use non-unique names, but until it is, the name issue isn't going away simply because there is no fair way to determine whether a player is "playing" a toon (however that's defined) and a "name camper" (however that's defined) or on extended absence for illness  or military service. (I did three rotations in Iraq during Live. Luckily, I was home the one (?) time the Devs did a name purge,)

I'm glad I was able to help get you your character's global name back, Fire Chief. I just wish COH was set up so such problems didn't exist.  

 

(The hero formerly known as Fire Chief. He's still active in my roster as "Hook and Ladder." Pretty obvious I didn't just grab the Fire Chief name to camp on it.)

[Excraft]

6 minutes ago, Doc Hornet said:

The ONLY solution to the contentions name issue is transitioning to what Cryptic did with tis COH 1.5 game engine used for CO and Star Trek Online: non-unique display names tied to global handles.

 

^ This.  I understand it's an enormous investment of time on a volunteer group to take on and not suggesting that's what they should do.  Just agreeing this is the way to solve the naming problem permanently where everyone can have a name they want.

 

7 minutes ago, Doc Hornet said:

The only time you see the global portion of a toon's name is in the chat box. It's a pretty non-intrusive system.

 

You'll see global handles ONLY IF you enable that in your chat settings.  Otherwise, you won't see the global and you can still click on the character names in chat to invite to teams or send tells.  In the 14 years I've been playing STO, I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen two different people with the same name, and that's people making clones of Picard or Kirk. 

 

 

 

[Doc Hornet]

I've been playing STO since pre-launch and the only duplicated names I've ever seen on teams or even in Earth Space Dock common area-- and remember, in STO you name not only your toon (Captain) but your ship(s) and your zillion Bridge Officers, too -- are the expected K1RKs and ENTERPR1SEs.  COH has a non-unique name policy -- for pets -- and I've yet to seen complaints about duplicated pet names. "THAT'S MY PET'S NAME!!!!" LOL  

 

Duplicated display names in COH leagues (something STO doesn't have) are the only concern I see and it's not much of one. How many times in a MSR are you going to have to differentiate between Black Wasp on team 1 and Black Wasp on team 6? 

[Excraft]

17 hours ago, Doc Hornet said:

Duplicated display names in COH leagues (something STO doesn't have) are the only concern I see and it's not much of one. How many times in a MSR are you going to have to differentiate between Black Wasp on team 1 and Black Wasp on team 6? 

 

I'd wager you'd very, very rarely ever see this, if ever at all.