Destroyed City?

[Krimson]

Destroyed? Based on what? Most of the place is intact.

[Glacier Peak]

26 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Destroyed? Based on what? Most of the place is intact.

Mot says otherwise.

[WumpusRat]

I think in this context "destroyed" doesn't mean the buildings have all been brought down. 

It's that almost all the inhabitants of DA have been slaughtered, and the city is taken over by monsters.

[Krimson]

6 minutes ago, WumpusRat said:

I think in this context "destroyed" doesn't mean the buildings have all been brought down. 

It's that almost all the inhabitants of DA have been slaughtered, and the city is taken over by monsters.

The civilians walking the streets and pulling handguns on Banished Pantheon say otherwise.

[Go0gleplex]

Destroyed City in this particular context could mean that it has ceased being able to function as a city in terms of supporting survivors, providing services, and just being something other than every person for themselves. 

[cranebump]

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

The civilians walking the streets and pulling handguns on Banished Pantheon say otherwise.

Retired X-COM, looking for something new perhaps?:-)

[Techwright]

4 hours ago, Krimson said:

Destroyed? Based on what? Most of the place is intact.

 

What triggered the message?  Did just entering Raimi Arcade (presumably for the character's first time) trigger this, and if so, why does it say "fallen into"?  I don't remember Raimi Arcade specifically.  Is there a broken open area there?

[Glacier Peak]

19 minutes ago, Techwright said:

 

What triggered the message?  Did just entering Raimi Arcade (presumably for the character's first time) trigger this, and if so, why does it say "fallen into"?  I don't remember Raimi Arcade specifically.  Is there a broken open area there?

It's the Dark Astoria introductory arc.

[lemming]

19 minutes ago, Techwright said:

 

What triggered the message?  Did just entering Raimi Arcade (presumably for the character's first time) trigger this, and if so, why does it say "fallen into"?  I don't remember Raimi Arcade specifically.  Is there a broken open area there?

If you do the mission from Captain Nolan or Threatening Arachnos Message, that's what happens.   You get those mission contacts when you open up your Alpha, and that leads you to Heather's arc

[Techwright]

9 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

It's the Dark Astoria introductory arc.

 

8 minutes ago, lemming said:

If you do the mission from Captain Nolan or Threatening Arachnos Message, that's what happens.   You get those mission contacts when you open up your Alpha, and that leads you to Heather's arc

 

Ah, I see.  I've never initiated it, only aided others. 

[Greycat]

Yeah, "destroyed" probably isn't the right word... other than the new landscaping in Moth Cemetery. Though I don't think depopulated would work... even if it was. I'm not honestly sure what the right word would be for it.

[Scarlet Shocker]

Surely to be technically correct it should be "district" rather than "city" given that it is a part of the greater Paragon City as a whole? Or do we consider Brooklyn or Croydon to be cities in their own rights?

 

I think part of this issue is that because DA was seriously retconned it had to have its entire story upended - and yet as players we still had a lot of love for the old hazard zone of DA (which continues to exist as an echo.) That meant that the revamping was a bit clunky in places and is one of those areas you just have to shrug and not worry about. The overall arcs work pretty well there so I don't think it's something to stress about but I would agree that "destroyed city" does seem somewhat hyperbolic in a similar way to the Holy Roman Empire

[Frostbiter]

I believe, and I may be wrong but lore-wise the Dark Astoria that exists for Paragon City is destroyed. Mot's DA only exists for the people Mot has pulled in and trapped. Head canon for me is that the old DA is what is actually there and Mot's DA is extra-dimensional.

[JasperStone]

This thought process happened recently.

 

The fog in DA is not fog ...

It is a lingering mist ... a pink mist.

[Marshal_General]

15 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Mot says otherwise.

Mot the Hoople?

[Techwright]

6 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Surely to be technically correct it should be "district" rather than "city" given that it is a part of the greater Paragon City as a whole? Or do we consider Brooklyn or Croydon to be cities in their own rights?

 

 

I do know of cities (with their own mayor and other political leadership, and perhaps their own infrastructure system: water, sewage, etc.) considered part of the greater city either adjacent to them or surrounding them.  The city of my birth has three such cities adjacent to its borders, and while the residents will tell a local that they are from one of these specifically, when referencing for someone not local, they name the big city to say where they are from, since all four (and some unincorporated areas that tend to be thought of as towns) are considered the greater area of the biggest city.

 

If I recall correctly, isn't the "London, England" that we foreigners reference actually greater London, and there's a City of London inside, complete with its own mayor and governing system?

 

The one thing I'm reasonably sure we haven't seen is "evidence" that at some point Astoria had its own mayor.  In fact, several plaques in the area instead reference Mayor Spanky Rabinowitz, whose leadership was over all Paragon City according to references elsewhere.  Based on that, your thought that Astoria was a "district", or perhaps more properly a "borough" of Paragon City seems to fit.  Like Brooklyn, NY, it could have had it's own district attorney and court system, but would answer to the Paragon City mayor's office.

[Lines]

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that Dark Astoria isn't destroyed enough?

 

Because as a redsider, I can help with that.

[Scarlet Shocker]

16 minutes ago, Techwright said:

 

I do know of cities (with their own mayor and other political leadership, and perhaps their own infrastructure system: water, sewage, etc.) considered part of the greater city either adjacent to them or surrounding them.  The city of my birth has three such cities adjacent to its borders, and while the residents will tell a local that they are from one of these specifically, when referencing for someone not local, they name the big city to say where they are from, since all four (and some unincorporated areas that tend to be thought of as towns) are considered the greater area of the biggest city.

 

If I recall correctly, isn't the "London, England" that we foreigners reference actually greater London, and there's a City of London inside, complete with its own mayor and governing system?

 

The one thing I'm reasonably sure we haven't seen is "evidence" that at some point Astoria had its own mayor.  In fact, several plaques in the area instead reference Mayor Spanky Rabinowitz, whose leadership was over all Paragon City according to references elsewhere.  Based on that, your thought that Astoria was a "district", or perhaps more properly a "borough" of Paragon City seems to fit.  Like Brooklyn, NY, it could have had it's own district attorney and court system, but would answer to the Paragon City mayor's office.

 

 

Ah you picked a case study that especially muddies the waters.

 

The City of London is its own unique thing that has evolved over time - and some might argue that it's been enabled to do so to avoid proper scrutiny over the financial dealings that go on in there. I can't speak to that per se but it does have an historical context going back well... as long as there's been an England I guess. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London

 

(I am inexpert on it but it's always seemed anomalous to me.)

 

But yes I've always regarded DA as a "borough" in the same way Kings Row, Eastgate and all other zones (even Atlas Park) are regarded similarly. I appreciate however that the game was built with zones to give discrete flavours in days when it was not believed to be possible to have an entirely open environment and it's worked well.

 

4 hours ago, Frostbiter said:

I believe, and I may be wrong but lore-wise the Dark Astoria that exists for Paragon City is destroyed. Mot's DA only exists for the people Mot has pulled in and trapped. Head canon for me is that the old DA is what is actually there and Mot's DA is extra-dimensional.

 

I actually like this explanation but in that case there should be a gaping hole where DA once stood... or something. I don't know if it's actual canon but it sounds pretty cool because the whole DA issue is a horror reference, which is also a comicbook staple.

[Trickshooter]

On 4/30/2024 at 1:06 AM, Greycat said:

Yeah, "destroyed" probably isn't the right word... other than the new landscaping in Moth Cemetery. Though I don't think depopulated would work... even if it was. I'm not honestly sure what the right word would be for it.

Ruined

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Trickshooter said:

Ruined

Even that sounds more like a physical description. DA - again, other than Moth cemetery - is physically in good shape. It's just had its entire population sacrificed in a giant ritual - and even the ghosts of those people are (were) being hunted for sacrifice to the BP's gods.

[Trickshooter]

Forsakened? Defiled? Desecrated?

[Krimson]

It still has electricity and I'm guessing that the plumbing still works. Civilians still walk the streets. It's a functional neighborhood and not at all destroyed. 

[Scarlet Shocker]

3 hours ago, Krimson said:

It still has electricity and I'm guessing that the plumbing still works. Civilians still walk the streets. It's a functional neighborhood and not at all destroyed. 

 

I'm not sure that's true. I think some of the buildings are 2 feet deep in "water" and very dark

 

[lemming]

6 hours ago, Krimson said:

It still has electricity and I'm guessing that the plumbing still works. Civilians still walk the streets. It's a functional neighborhood and not at all destroyed. 

Where are you seeing Civilians in Dark Astoria?  I found a few non-targetable ones being threatened by banished pantheon, but no one is walking around