shortguy on indom Posted May 30 Posted May 30 1 hour ago, Excraft said: When it comes to what is or isn't a trademark or copyright violation here, HC has the final say, so deeming someone innocent or not is up to them. Agree insofar as HC is in control of what they allow to happen on the site, but determination the copyright/trademark violation is prolly a matter for a judge to decide. 2 PvP Capture the Flag! Bring some fun into it....
Player2 Posted May 30 Posted May 30 1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said: but you know what it might do? Act as a very obvious bit of evidence that Homecoming does take IP violations seriously, and that might make the difference between a suit or a simple warning letter. Again, I have to say why stop at the character creator? Because despite the obvious awareness across the internet that people aren't supposed to harass and insult, it does still happen. General chat in particular can become a real cesspool. So no, unless we're going to address ALL of the problematic behaviors of breaking rules in the EULA, then I don't think we need or should have such a warning in the character creator. I agree that some people don't read the EULA... so maybe we need an additional pop up after logging in stating that you should read it and be aware of all the rules within because ignorance of the rules does not permit disregarding them. 3 1
PeregrineFalcon Posted May 30 Posted May 30 2 minutes ago, Player2 said: Again, I have to say why stop at the character creator? Asked and answered. But if you need another reason, Disney isn't going to sue Homecoming out of existence if I call you mean names in Atlas Park. They might if someone makes a bunch of Marvel clones, runs around Atlas Park, and then puts the video up on YouTube. 2 1 Being constantly offended doesn't mean you're right, it means you're too narcissistic to tolerate opinions different than your own.
Player2 Posted May 30 Posted May 30 44 minutes ago, shortguy on indom said: Agree insofar as HC is in control of what they allow to happen on the site, but determination the copyright/trademark violation is prolly a matter for a judge to decide. Correct. It is a matter for a judge to decide. But lawyers can be expensive, and no one wants to have to go to court for other people choosing to disregard the posted rules. Homecoming gets to decide to shoot down whatever they want, whether it be protected parody or homages that strike a little too close to the source material, to ensure that there's no need to have to go to court at all. Instead of warning people at the character creation menu about what not to do, maybe an effort should be made to educate people on what constitutes acceptable homage and where parody crosses the line. I'm sure some people will say that's a bad idea because the moment you draw lines of what is or isn't acceptable, you will have people looking for ways to skirt or exploit it. But why is keeping things vague and putting up warning messages a better solution? 1 1
Player2 Posted May 30 Posted May 30 2 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said: Asked and answered. But if you need another reason, Disney isn't going to sue Homecoming out of existence if I call you mean names in Atlas Park. They might if someone makes a bunch of Marvel clones, runs around Atlas Park, and then puts the video up on YouTube. I get it. The rules only matter if the Mouse will sue. So you're saying the other rules are meaningless. Gotcha. Carry on. 4 1
Excraft Posted May 30 Posted May 30 1 hour ago, shortguy on indom said: Agree insofar as HC is in control of what they allow to happen on the site, but determination the copyright/trademark violation is prolly a matter for a judge to decide. Here on the HC servers it is up to HC to decide what is or is not acceptable with regard to trademark or copyright violations. 1 1 1
Excraft Posted May 30 Posted May 30 47 minutes ago, Player2 said: Again, I have to say why stop at the character creator? Because despite the obvious awareness across the internet that people aren't supposed to harass and insult, it does still happen. General chat in particular can become a real cesspool. So no, unless we're going to address ALL of the problematic behaviors of breaking rules in the EULA, then I don't think we need or should have such a warning in the character creator. I agree that some people don't read the EULA... so maybe we need an additional pop up after logging in stating that you should read it and be aware of all the rules within because ignorance of the rules does not permit disregarding them. Adding load screen tool tips reminding people to be kind to their fellow players isn't a bad idea either. Taking the "all or nothing" approach certainly isn't helping your case. 2 1 1
Excraft Posted May 30 Posted May 30 42 minutes ago, Player2 said: Correct. It is a matter for a judge to decide. If you're willing to personally fork over the retainer fees for a legal team to handle whether or not a costume/name/bio combo here is or isn't a trademark violation, go for it. HC is more than capable of making that determination based on their judgement and what they will or will not allow on their servers. 1 1
Game Master GM_GooglyMoogly Posted May 30 Game Master Posted May 30 Let's keep the arguing to the topic and not against each other personally, please.
Haijinx Posted May 30 Posted May 30 9 hours ago, UltraAlt said: Two things That wasn't set in the Marvel Universe, it was set in the Star Wars universe. And, those comics were terrible. 1 1 1
PeregrineFalcon Posted May 30 Posted May 30 1 hour ago, Player2 said: I get it. The rules only matter if the Mouse will sue. So you're saying the other rules are meaningless. Gotcha. Carry on. At no point did I say any of this. You've deliberately misconstrued what I did say. 1 hour ago, Player2 said: Instead of warning people at the character creation menu about what not to do, maybe an effort should be made to educate people on what constitutes acceptable homage and where parody crosses the line. Well, since you don't want them adding anything to the character creator about this, then how should Homecoming do that? Where exactly would you put this information, and in what format? 1 1 1 Being constantly offended doesn't mean you're right, it means you're too narcissistic to tolerate opinions different than your own.
Bionic_Flea Posted May 30 Posted May 30 6 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said: Where exactly would you put this information, and in what format? I think you could add a quick comment on the mission load screens that have all sorts of advice, jokes, and comments. 1 1 1
Haijinx Posted May 30 Posted May 30 Sign / loading tip suggestion "Don't be a moron. Trademarked characters are Trademarked." 2 1
kelika2 Posted May 30 Posted May 30 oh damn did i miss the monthly sword rattling thread? just petition and move on, you wont win 1 1 2 1
kelika2 Posted May 30 Posted May 30 @PeregrineFalconbetcha if i made another regen thread you would do the same thing 1 1
Player2 Posted May 31 Posted May 31 3 hours ago, Excraft said: If you're willing to personally fork over the retainer fees for a legal team to handle whether or not a costume/name/bio combo here is or isn't a trademark violation, go for it. HC is more than capable of making that determination based on their judgement and what they will or will not allow on their servers. I agree with you. I'm saying, it's a determination that can only be made in court by a judge after lawyers for both sides have made their case. It's far better for HC to set rules to prevent it from having to go to court. 2 1
Troo Posted May 31 Posted May 31 (edited) 3 hours ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said: Let's keep the arguing to the topic and not against each other personally, please. but Great GooglyMoogly one of these folks smells. I really wanna say who. You could prolly guess. My opinion: trademark offenders should have their names & costume genericed, and their character's hands transformed permanently turned into mittens . This while their optional petition is being reviewed.. Edited May 31 by Troo 1 "Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown (Wise words Unknown!) Si vis pacem, para bellum
Game Master GM_GooglyMoogly Posted May 31 Game Master Posted May 31 9 minutes ago, Troo said: but Great GooglyMoogly one of these folks smells. I really wanna say who. You could prolly guess. 5
Oubliette_Red Posted May 31 Posted May 31 8 hours ago, mcdoogss said: Remind me what happens to snitches again? 1 1 1 Dislike certain sounds? Silence/Modify specific sounds. Looking for modified whole powerset sfx? Check out Michiyo's modder or Solerverse's thread. Got a punny character? You should share it.
Erratic1 Posted May 31 Posted May 31 4 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said: But if you need another reason, Disney isn't going to sue Homecoming out of existence if I call you mean names in Atlas Park. They might if someone makes a bunch of Marvel clones, runs around Atlas Park, and then puts the video up on YouTube. Nobody can know what The Mouse is going to do. On the other hand, DC published The Zen Men: Hmmm...who do they remind you of? And then Marvel have the Shi'ar Royal Guard and Squadron Supreme: Kinda reminds one of a certain legion of teens and league of heroes, no? And those are published, directly sold for profit, comics as opposed to some obscure activity by fans in a corner of the world not a lot of people are going to see. Not saying people should freely be able to impinge on trademarked characters but honestly, there is far more meaningful infringement by comics companies against each other than anything players in CoH are doing. 1
Force Redux Posted May 31 Posted May 31 26 minutes ago, Erratic1 said: Nobody can know what The Mouse is going to do. On the other hand, DC published The Zen Men: Hmmm...who do they remind you of? And then Marvel have the Shi'ar Royal Guard and Squadron Supreme: Kinda reminds one of a certain legion of teens and league of heroes, no? And those are published, directly sold for profit, comics as opposed to some obscure activity by fans in a corner of the world not a lot of people are going to see. Not saying people should freely be able to impinge on trademarked characters but honestly, there is far more meaningful infringement by comics companies against each other than anything players in CoH are doing. Except marvel and DC have teams of high-priced and very savvy lawyers to defend their corporate interests. Homecoming is volunteer based and has none of the resources. Not a good argument 1 1 @Force Redux on Everlasting ----- (read my guide) ----- Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds
Erratic1 Posted May 31 Posted May 31 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Force Redux said: Except marvel and DC have teams of high-priced and very savvy lawyers to defend their corporate interests. Homecoming is volunteer based and has none of the resources. Not a good argument I didn't argue a point, a made a statement of fact. Here, let me summarize since you missed it: 57 minutes ago, Erratic1 said: Not saying people should freely be able to impinge on trademarked characters but honestly, there is far more meaningful infringement by comics companies against each other than anything players in CoH are doing. Read the bold and underlined sections. Edited May 31 by Erratic1 1 1
Force Redux Posted May 31 Posted May 31 26 minutes ago, Erratic1 said: I didn't argue a point, a made a statement of fact. Here, let me summarize since you missed it: Read the bold and underlined sections. Here, I think you missed something: HC is not Marvel/DC. Because Marvel does X and DC does Y, doesn't equal immunity for COH HC. Let's also not forget that Marvel had had a previous history targeting (overzealously) this franchise: https://massivelyop.com/2019/11/22/lawful-neutral-when-marvel-sued-ncsoft-over-city-of-heroes/#:~:text=Way back in November of,its copyrighted comic book heroes. That's clearly the point of my comment. Regardless of what DC/Marvel do with each other, we're not DC/Marvel, we're Homecoming. We're not in the same playing field as DC/Marvel for making forays into infringement territory. 1 1 @Force Redux on Everlasting ----- (read my guide) ----- Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds
Erratic1 Posted May 31 Posted May 31 12 minutes ago, Force Redux said: Here, I think you missed something: HC is not Marvel/DC. Because Marvel does X and DC does Y, doesn't equal immunity for COH HC. Let's also not forget that Marvel had had a previous history targeting (overzealously) this franchise: https://massivelyop.com/2019/11/22/lawful-neutral-when-marvel-sued-ncsoft-over-city-of-heroes/#:~:text=Way back in November of,its copyrighted comic book heroes. That's clearly the point of my comment. Regardless of what DC/Marvel do with each other, we're not DC/Marvel, we're Homecoming. We're not in the same playing field as DC/Marvel for making forays into infringement territory. You keep going down some path concluding things I did not say. What I did say (again): 1 hour ago, Erratic1 said: Not saying people should freely be able to impinge on trademarked characters... Do those words in any way suggest people should impinge on DC or Marvel creations? (Rhetorical question, no they do not.) But as for worrying about Marvel (or DC) and what they are going to do, let's keep in mind that Marvel's previous attempt alleged Statesman was infringing on Captain America because (oh this is rich), "...a white star and patriotic theme served to confuse consumers based on how many people already knew Captain America." If Marvel is going to come after CoH because Statesman, the flying, invulnerable, brick dressed in red and blue is more confusable with Captain America than Superman, then absolutely nothing one does in creating a character is reasonably safe from drawing Marvel's ire. We might as well stop making characters. This is my Tanker, Paladia... A black woman wearing a white costume...guess she's dangerously close to Storm...or Photon, at least by the standard which put Statesman as infringing Captain America. Also going to note, since you brought up Marvel and lawsuits, from the linked article above: Quote The 5th and 6th claims were for contributory and vicarious trademark infringement respectively, and the 8th and 9th claims touched on common-law trademark and vicarious infringement. All four of these claims failed because they failed the test whereby the game users were benefiting commercially from creating infringing content – obviously, for gamers, this was recreational use only. One might figure Marvel lawyers to be somewhat proficient at the basics of trademark law given the industry they work for and yet Marvel decided to come after CoH with a flimsy enough claim it was mostly dismissed. This is not to say (AGAIN SINCE YOU SEEM TO WILLFULLY MISREAD THE POINT BEING MADE) that I support infringement, but rather you have no control over how absurd Marvel will try to be so freaking out over every character is perhaps overkill on the part of those doing so in this thread. See something problematic? Report it and move on. 1 1
ZacKing Posted May 31 Author Posted May 31 10 hours ago, Player2 said: Oh, do I have your permission now to disagree? Am I allowed to express an opinion on the matter that differs from your belief that they should do something? It is my opinion that it would be a waste of their time. That is my determination. Deal with it. Whether or not the HC team chooses to act on that, or your opinion that it would be beneficial, is entirely up to them... but I can still state my opinion on the matter without having to listen to you tell me it's not for me to decide anything. Nobody said anything of the sort. No one said you can't disagree or express your own opinion. No one said anything even remotely close to that and you know it. All I said was you don't get to say what is or isn't worth the effort for HC and you threw a hissy fit over it. Of course you're welcome to disagree and to express a different opinion. That's what these forums are for. If it were your server with you running the show, you'd be more than welcome to definitively say it isn't worth your time. But it isn't your server and you aren't running it, so let other people share ideas and let HC decide what is or isn't a good use of their time. My determination is that it could help and do some good. Others have said the same thing and offered some great ideas. You're the one who can't seem to deal with that, not me. I'm perfectly fine with you disagreeing with me. And again, I'm not your child or your pet dog, so no, you don't get to tell me to deal with anything. 11 hours ago, Player2 said: None of anything is for any of the player base to decide... so why should anyone bother suggesting anything? Because that's what discussion forums are for. It's not an all or nothing thing. We as the players can make suggestions and maybe the HC folk will take those suggestions into consideration. We as players with differing points of view can discuss an idea and provide our perspectives on whether the idea has merit or not. That can be useful for the HC team. Allowing discussion and getting multiple points of view is important. Trying to shout down others who disagree with you isn't helpful. 11 hours ago, Player2 said: So just go on about stating your wrong opinions and, again, drop it with regard to me having my own opinions. My opinions aren't wrong, nor is anyone elses opinion wrong. For the third time now, you're more than welcome to have your own thoughts and opinions and share them here just like the rest of us. No one has suggested otherwise. You seem to be the one who has issues with people disagreeing with you, not me. 1 1 1 1
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