Shouts to "Bad" TF Teams

[TTRPGWhiz]

Yesterday I took my lil Storm/Sonic Defender through some lower-level TFs on Everlasting; went from level 1 to level 34 through Posi 1 & 2, Synapse & Penny Yin. Synapse is Synapse; it's long and without multiple people with TT / stealth + ATT, it can be even longer. The other three are usually, in my experience, fairly swift and easy. Not yesterday, and it was awesome.

 

Posi 1 was the "least bad"; our team did fine right up until the Simulacra battle, which took a few rounds of wipes to clear up. So far so fine.

 

Posi 2: 1 hour and 2 minutes, 40 defeats. Our team's first wipe happened in the penultimate "Attack the Circle within Oranbega" mission (yes, the one where all you have to do is defeat one spawn). That puts you in Magic Crystal Jail, which usually means you're going to wipe a few more times, which we did. Not to be outdone...

 

Penny Yin: 42 minutes, 37 defeats. Not much more to say there; all of these came at the hands of Clamor and her attendant freakbois (except for one wipe where we pulled all of the Council in the big room before getting into the elevator to the Hallway of Pew-Pew in the Aldermam mish). 

 

Synapse took 2 hours due to just, being Synapse, and a scarcity of folks with ATT. That team did burn down the AVs and Babbage super fast; we had Sonic Resonance, Storm and Poison. Babbage went down with just one outside hero helping (a level 37 Scrapper).

 

All these TFs saw us fighting mostly +4s (sometimes +5s). They all took longer and caused far more defeats than usual. And nobody quit, nobody called anyone out, no finger pointing, no shade. It was really a treat. So many TFs now are 'solved' to the point that skilled/knowledgeable teams finish them in less time than it takes to do a farm run. Pushing through waves of defeats and the just plain length of Synapse felt a little like "old times", when I would actually notice and remember my TFmates powersets, get used to other people's tactical preferences, etc. 

Just a lil shout out to the Sunday Everlasting Lowbie TF crew. I was on Rockabye; if you were one of the few, the proud, the many defeated, this one's for you!

 

 

[Ghost]

That sounded like a lot of fun.

Wish I got to be a part of it

[WeatherLord]

I was the Dominator Puzzlepox on the Synapse, and I agree, it was a lot of fun! When a team capped at 17 has good coordination and manages to steamroll lvl 21s, it's always a great time.

 

Whlie we didn't have too many defeats on the Synapse, some of my favorite memories from Live were those missions with the in-map Prisons. It would really create some intense situations, like if half the team wipes and some are trying to work together to break out while the others are trying to fight their way over to make a rescue. I wish more missions nowadays had them, though not everyone likes it.

 

After all, its classic comic book storytelling for a team to get beaten down, only to have them overcome the odds and make a comeback. When those scenarios happen organically with CoH, it's the best!

[Snarky]

yes, i have shouted many times at bad PUGs.  does no good.

[ZemX]

2 hours ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

Posi 1 was the "least bad"

 

Sorry, my browser crashed right here.

[cranebump]

I have to ask, due to my unhinged rant about this some week or so ago:: did the team click the glowies before dealing with the ambushes? Because this seems to be much more common on Everlast, ime. Not sure why, but it does. That said, I was on a team on Excel where the same thing occurred. A couple of us intercepted the entire incoming throng in the room outside the reactor. I did a rabid lockdown debuff with my troller (augmented by scarfing most of my insps). Thankfully, we handled everything pretty well. I think we had some pretty stacked toons on that team, though.

[TTRPGWhiz]

2 hours ago, cranebump said:

I have to ask, due to my unhinged rant about this some week or so ago:: did the team click the glowies before dealing with the ambushes? Because this seems to be much more common on Everlast, ime. Not sure why, but it does. That said, I was on a team on Excel where the same thing occurred. A couple of us intercepted the entire incoming throng in the room outside the reactor. I did a rabid lockdown debuff with my troller (augmented by scarfing most of my insps). Thankfully, we handled everything pretty well. I think we had some pretty stacked toons on that team, though.

 

Nope! She just showed up and started laying waste with her AoE -Def attacks. As our support characters were more geared toward debuffs than buffs, she took down a lotta folks with her opening salvo. 

[TTRPGWhiz]

3 hours ago, WeatherLord said:

I was the Dominator Puzzlepox on the Synapse, and I agree, it was a lot of fun! When a team capped at 17 has good coordination and manages to steamroll lvl 21s, it's always a great time.

 

Whlie we didn't have too many defeats on the Synapse, some of my favorite memories from Live were those missions with the in-map Prisons. It would really create some intense situations, like if half the team wipes and some are trying to work together to break out while the others are trying to fight their way over to make a rescue. I wish more missions nowadays had them, though not everyone likes it.

 

After all, its classic comic book storytelling for a team to get beaten down, only to have them overcome the odds and make a comeback. When those scenarios happen organically with CoH, it's the best!

Ah nice, hey there! Absolutely agree, it was a fun time and felt legitimately heroic!

[Digirium]

5 hours ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

All these TFs saw us fighting mostly +4s (sometimes +5s).

 

And therein the ruination of many TF/SFs -- XP greed that destroys all fun.

 

"Oh-ho-ho we're rolling BTW I turned up the difficulty to +3/4 just before we entered without asking" team repeatedly wipes.

 

That may not be what the OP was describing perhaps all their teams consented. If it was with consent from team I would stick around but when the difficulty is changed without the consent of the team I will not stay to enable a moron to overcome their dumb decision.

 

 

Edited June 17 by Digirium

[cranebump]

35 minutes ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

 

Nope! She just showed up and started laying waste with her AoE -Def attacks. As our support characters were more geared toward debuffs than buffs, she took down a lotta folks with her opening salvo. 

That’ll do it.:-)

[WumpusRat]

Maybe I've just gotten lucky, but I've noticed that pretty much every TF I've done on Everlasting over the years has, even if things go sideways and we get tons of wipes, just soldiered on through and didn't start blaming everyone. Sometimes a big wipe just made everyone laugh, and we got back up, brushed ourselves off, and went back at it with the resounding "screw you, round two you're going down!" 

 

We had a Synapse the other day that had 37 defeats. It took a long time for anyone to come help with Babbage, and we were getting pummeled. Dragging him away just far enough for someone to rez and jump back in, and another person would drop. Rinse, repeat. It was epic. I think that fight alone was like 15 of our defeats.

 

40 minutes ago, Digirium said:

And therein the ruination of many TF/SFs -- XP greed that destroys all fun.

Sometimes this happens simply because the leader isn't high enough level, as well. A group that I do TFs with a couple weeks ago started a Synapse, and we were all 16th level. The mobs spawn at 20/21 even if you have it set to +0, so everything was +4 and +5 to us. And even if you level, you're "set" for the TF, so you'll be 16th for the entire thing. It's an odd bit of code.

[Herotu]

It does sound fun. I'd like to try something underpowered sometime, but I live in a different time.

[TTRPGWhiz]

2 hours ago, Digirium said:

 

And therein the ruination of many TF/SFs -- XP greed that destroys all fun.

 

"Oh-ho-ho we're rolling BTW I turned up the difficulty to +3/4 just before we entered without asking" team repeatedly wipes.

 

That may not be what the OP was describing perhaps all their teams consented. If it was with consent from team I would stick around but when the difficulty is changed without the consent of the team I will not stay to enable a moron to overcome their dumb decision.

 

 

I suppose that depends your definition of fun. Personally I enjoy the lower level TFs specifically because they’re a challenge. I think I’d argue that a +4 Posi 1 presents a larger crunch challenge than an ITF HM of any star level, and asks more of player ability. YMMV, O’course!

 

(I did once join a Posi where the lead selected the options to turn off both temps and enhancements, without the tram knowing; that was not fun)

Edited June 18 by TTRPGWhiz

[Ravenplume]

I have found that on teams set at a high level, mentioning that it would be nice to be able to hit and actually do damage, the leader will actually drop it down a notch or two.

 

Has a failed Marketcrash last night that I was on.  For some reason, we could barely make a dent in that Crimson Prototype thing...especially with nonstop adds that we needed to clear as well.  Leader finally gave up, and sadly, there was no redo.  So that character needs to try again to get her free purple...

 

I do have to say, it was only in the past couple months I learned the glowies in the reactor spawn ambushes.  Then again, I think I have only done that TF on groups that speed run it and never give time to ask questions, train up as needed, or even communicate with each other.

 

I'm reluctant to attempt any of the incarnate trials now.  I can imagine what a cluster those would be...

[Snarky]

10 minutes ago, Ravenplume said:

I have found that on teams set at a high level, mentioning that it would be nice to be able to hit and actually do damage, the leader will actually drop it down a notch or two.

 

Has a failed Marketcrash last night that I was on.  For some reason, we could barely make a dent in that Crimson Prototype thing...especially with nonstop adds that we needed to clear as well.  Leader finally gave up, and sadly, there was no redo.  So that character needs to try again to get her free purple...

 

I do have to say, it was only in the past couple months I learned the glowies in the reactor spawn ambushes.  Then again, I think I have only done that TF on groups that speed run it and never give time to ask questions, train up as needed, or even communicate with each other.

 

I'm reluctant to attempt any of the incarnate trials now.  I can imagine what a cluster those would be...

for incarnate trials it depends on leader.  Oklahoman on Excelsior is the "this will be smooth" leader.  A few others, Living Brain 3000, and maybe 3-4 more.  You learn them in time.  But if on Excelsior join Oklahomans runs.  quite a lot of them too

[Ravenplume]

I'm mostly on Everlasting nowadays.

[kelika2]

13 hours ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

Yesterday I took my lil Storm/Sonic Defender through some lower-level TFs on Everlasting; went from level 1 to level 34 through Posi 1 & 2, Synapse & Penny Yin. Synapse is Synapse; it's long and without multiple people with TT / stealth + ATT, it can be even longer.

Synapse took 2 hours due to just, being Synapse, and a scarcity of folks with ATT. That team did burn down the AVs and Babbage super fast; we had Sonic Resonance, Storm and Poison. Babbage went down with just one outside hero helping (a level 37 Scrapper).

All these TFs saw us fighting mostly +4s (sometimes +5s).

do your respecs with exemplaring in mind.  this is 90% the reason people complain about synapes or think its bad because they come in with like 1 or 2 attacks

 

but seriously, 2 hours on a +4 synapes is damn good time

[Seed22]

5 hours ago, Ravenplume said:

I'm mostly on Everlasting nowadays.

You have Veracor, SSR, Burk and a few others. There’s the Everlasting TFs channel to know which trial is up for the day

[Uun]

12 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

Sometimes this happens simply because the leader isn't high enough level, as well. A group that I do TFs with a couple weeks ago started a Synapse, and we were all 16th level. The mobs spawn at 20/21 even if you have it set to +0, so everything was +4 and +5 to us. And even if you level, you're "set" for the TF, so you'll be 16th for the entire thing. It's an odd bit of code.

Signature TFs (Synapse, Penny Yin, Citadel, Katie Hannon, Manticore, Numina, MLTF, LGTF, Kahn) always spawn at the TF's maximum level, regardless of the leader's level. 

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Task_Force

[Tachstar]

16 hours ago, Snarky said:

yes, i have shouted many times at bad PUGs.  does no good.

 

Over the last week or so I've done all the Task Forces required for the Task Force Commander accolade (and a Quaterfield just for the heck of it) on my electric/sr scrapper, and let me tell you, I shouted a LOT! It was an uncoordinated, sloppy, incoherent mess. Complete disregard for etiquette and protocol. The fact that I was soloing the whole time may or may not be relevant.

[tidge]

14 hours ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

 

Nope! She just showed up and started laying waste with her AoE -Def attacks. As our support characters were more geared toward debuffs than buffs, she took down a lotta folks with her opening salvo. 

 

This is one of those things where the player who has Clamor's aggro really cannot be standing near other players on the team. That TF at +4 is going to be a challenge, but when a teammate is actively debuffing teammate defenses (courtesy of Clamor), bad outcomes are almost always guaranteed.

 

The most common culprit in this scenario is a melee character standing toe-to-toe with Clamor while other melee characters are trying to get their attacks in. I don't care what other melee/PBAoE powers a 'L33T' Tanker or Brute has: I think player that Taunts Clamor and moves away from the rest of the team is a smarter and better player than 99% of the game's population.

[Sovera]

People complain about bad TF teams but those are the ones I enjoy the most. Maybe because I'm constantly on a tank so people doing dumb things only affects them (click all the glowies before the ambush is over? Sure, no skin off my back) but what we call 'smooth TFs' have become TOO smooth. We steamroll without care or even effort. But it makes sense if one player can solo it at that difficulty (that's me, I'm that player) then adding seven more to the mix will make no difference other than going faster.

 

 

At some point we may get the HP multiplier for teams that I've been daydreaming about. Solo players will not be touched but for each player that joins X% goes up. Depending on the tuning it should still be at around the speed a single player while no longer having that struggle of trying to hit something before it has been obliterated. This is something I have seen in other games and that just makes sense.

[tidge]

11 hours ago, Ravenplume said:

I have found that on teams set at a high level, mentioning that it would be nice to be able to hit and actually do damage, the leader will actually drop it down a notch or two.

 

6 hours ago, kelika2 said:

do your respecs with exemplaring in mind.  this is 90% the reason people complain about synapes or think its bad because they come in with like 1 or 2 attacks

 

Spring-boarding from the two quoted posts: Players tackling +4 low-level TFs/SFs should IMO try to make sure that the attacks they have are slotted for Accuracy and/or the character in play will have +Accuracy/+ToHit bonuses from somewhere.

 

Writing only for myself, this is one of the main reasons why I slot Purple sets in attacks (few Accuracy pieces, but good +Accuracy set bonuses), and if not... I am slotting Accuracy/- pieces from non-Purple sets. Since Homecoming lowered the levels at which T7/T8/T9 powers can be taken, I find it rare that my builds will have something like Tactics available for the lower level content.

[Ravenplume]

All attacks get as their standard, 1 accuracy, 3 damage, an endurance reduction and a recharge.  Can't really get them slotted any more than that.  Those +4 TFs still feel like chopping down a tree with a butter knife.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Ravenplume said:

All attacks get as their standard, 1 accuracy, 3 damage, an endurance reduction and a recharge.  Can't really get them slotted any more than that.