Making *conceptual* sense of Kheldian characters.

[Zombra]

Hi again! I've been wanting to try playing a Kheldian again (I had one back in the day), but it's really rough trying to make sense of a character concept.

 

I looked at the wiki for most of the lore, and here are the basics of what I've gathered (and haven't gathered).

 

There are these aliens from space, at war with other aliens from space.

They don't have bodies - they're just life energy or something.  Some of them feed on life energy so they kill each other by sucking it out.

They can get bodies by merging with hosts from other planets, including three main races.  Humans, space squids, and space lobsters.  Individual Khelds you see on the street have merged with one, two, or all three.

They have been on Earth for thousands of years.  They have never kept their presence a secret but no one talks about them really at all, it's no big deal.

They don't have any kind of embassy, or relationship with human governments.  There are just some of them kind of standing around Paragon City asking superheroes to help them fight the other aliens.

There is no formal system for acquiring host bodies.  No one has any idea how potential hosts are selected, how they are asked, whether people try to seek out Kheldians to merge with them, or what that process looks like at all.  Sometimes there are just these disembodied aliens and sometimes they end up merging with people.  Like, you know how sometimes you'll find a horse tangled up in a fence?  It's kinda like that - sometimes you'll find a soul sucking spirit alien who merged with a human being.  It doesn't happen much, except when it does, and then you see one and people are like "Welp, there's one of them whaddayacalls."

 

This is all rather unsatisfactory in terms of trying to make a lore-friendly Kheldian character with a sensible and interesting backstory.  It just seems like it's going to be "Joe Blow was going to work one day and some alien on the street asked him to merge into a superbeing and he said yah ok bro"

 

Am I missing important information about their deal?  Any insight appreciated.

[Ghost]

15 minutes ago, Zombra said:

 

 

Am I missing important information about their deal?  Any insight appreciated.

Yes

You’re missing the part where you use your imagination to come up with a great backstory.

[Glacier Peak]

20 minutes ago, Zombra said:

Joe Blow was going to work one day and some alien on the street asked him to merge into a superbeing and he said "yah ok bro"

This is pretty much comic book origin story material. 

 

The Kheldian race is larger than our game gives it credit for - the squid and lobster, as they are affectionately called, are just two of the infinite number of potential species that the Kheldian race has acquired over time. There is also their pure Light Form as well. And these different "forms" can be used nearly simultaneously, though I can't find a lore-related reason at the moment, I know that the Kheldians were able to travel vast (impossible) distances by shifting their forms and using their inherent travel power abilities (i.e., faster than light, instan transmission).

 

As for giving a proper lore background for your character, it's up to you to decide whether the fusion of beings were willing or unwilling (Nictus). Whether they intend to further relations with the Earth or conquer it. Whether to sell out their remaining species to an evil intergalactic threat to use as a fuel source, or enjoy time travel hijinks and let Manny keep pumping the gas for other worldly visitors. 

Edited June 27 by Glacier Peak

[Zombra]

4 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

This is pretty much comic book origin story material. 

 

Sort of, but comic book writers make some effort to make a hero unique, or so rare or improbable that the character is fascinating.  Being the one person on Earth to be selected to wear the Green Lantern ring is interesting.  Going to 7-11 and buying one isn't.  I feel like the Kheldians are hanging out at 7-11 to merge with whoever walks by.  Am I wrong?  Nothing I can find implies otherwise.

 

4 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

[It's up to you to decide] whether they intend to further relations with the Earth or conquer it. Whether to sell out their remaining species to an evil intergalactic threat to use as a fuel source, or enjoy time travel hijinks and let Manny keep pumping the gas for other worldly visitors. 

 

A character's personality and motivation are certainly interesting questions, but this is not an origin story.  "Superman chooses to fight crime" isn't enough.

 

4 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

It's up to you to decide whether the fusion of beings were willing or unwilling (Nictus).

 

Now we're getting somewhere.  The story of how somebody became fused can be interesting - except again, I have no examples to work with and no background on how it's usually done.  They've been around for thousands of years fusing with people and it feels like it's a completely un-special process, like buying that ring at 7-11.  Is there a selection process?  Is only one person chosen every 1000 years, or can anyone join whenever?  Do the Nictus target particular people to force merge?  Maybe they want scientists, or exceptional physical specimens?  I don't know and nobody seems to know, and there's no evident difference between a Kheldian who used to be a sick child and one who used to be a bodybuilding champion, so I have nothing to work with.  Why would a Nictus force merge with someone anyway?  Look at how many people apply to be astronauts in the real world.  I don't think it would be hard to find people on every street corner who would jump at the chance to get super powers.

 

Again, if there were canon backstories that showed any kind of pattern in how these people come together, any sense that getting a Green Lantern ring is special in any way, it would give me a starting point.  I guess there just isn't one, so my character will just go to 7-11, except he won't because to me that's not a story worth telling.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Edited June 27 by Zombra

[Skyhawke]

Just my 2 influence, but I have two Kheldians that I've put time and effort into, both 50'd and mostly Incarnated up. One has the origin story of being a warrior from back in Cimerora that led a team against one of the Nictus powered invaders and ended up fusing with a Peacebringer when it came to his aid and together they stopped the Nictus. In the resulting explosion of energy so near one of the mystic temples, he was sent forward in time to present day Paragon. The other willingly joined with a PB in modern times as both were part of the PPD Kheld division, but excelled so far ahead of the others that he was granted Hero status.  Now, not everyone has imagination for days and it can be a struggle to put something other than "I fight crime because it's what I do" and most don't even seem to bother with origin stories anymore (which is a shame because even the not so great ones are still a joy to read and a dying art). The lore behind Khelds does lend itself to fitting into any origin story since they've been in space, in labs, in the past and around magic. As far as motivation? I got nothing as that really is where the imagination of the individual has to come in. Name and costume? If nothing else use one of those name generating sites and work form that. Some of my coolest creations started from a randomly generated name. 

[Snarky]

Think HP Lovecraft Call of Cthulu creatures from beyond space and time eat toir mind/soul/body.  Have fun!

[Lunchmoney]

I dont have a Kheldian on Homecoming but I did have 2 on Live. 

https://cit.cohtitan.com/character/17896

https://cit.cohtitan.com/character/17895

 

(2.... That's not quite true as they were all the same character in different stages of it's android life. )

 

 

edit: I also realise this isnt what you asked about, directly, but I thought by sharing my Khelds's backstories you might get an idea. Anything is possible 🙂

 

Edited June 27 by Lunchmoney

[momentarygrace]

When Kheldians were introduced you had the earn the ability to make one by getting at least one other character to 50 - that 'unlocked' Epic Archtypes, so unlike on HC nowadays, it was an achievement to unlock them, then you could roll one or not if you wished.

 

Some folks never unlocked them. It took me a long time to unlock them, I ended up only having 2 level 50s on Live because I'm an altoholic and switch characters a lot. It was an act of will to stick to one long enough to make 50!

 

So initially, they were special, and there weren't so many of them. Also, because they were supposed to be powerful (insert debate here) they also had their own enemies, Void Hunters, that only appeared in a mission if there was a Kheld on the team, and these guys could one shot most Keldians pretty quick. So yay, you have a cool character who can shift forms and do different stuff - blast, tank etc., but boo, you had to be careful of Voids in any door mission.

 

Having them already unlocked on HC is what (I think) gives the impression they are hanging out at the 7-11 looking for partners. 😜

 

If you run a Peacebringer or Warshade they each have their own specific contacts and a mission storyline that gives more information, backstory and current story about what they are doing in Paragon.

 

Cimerora story arcs and the ITF includes Nictus. The last surviving Kheldian is in Ouroborous. So there's material to work with, if you want to.

[Greycat]

This would why I wrote this back in the day.

 

Someone did import it into Paragonwiki and (where you should be going) the homecoming wiki, but given that's ... a wiki and people can just wander in and alter it for whatever reason... Cimerora (and some current changes) have twisted a few things around since then, granted. (I'm *really* not fond of a few things that were done for gameplay reasons, frankly) but... *shrug* them's the breaks. The basics haven't really changed.

 

And yes, I keep saying I need to update the guide and put it here, but I haven't learned to time travel, nor have I won the lottery, so...

[Shenanigunner]

On 6/27/2024 at 4:36 AM, Ghost said:

You’re missing the part where you use your imagination to come up with a great backstory.

 

I actually agree with the OP. I can't think of any other group in the game that has... absolutely no significant explanation or backstory, no matter how corny, convoluted or comicky. Khelds are just... there ya go. Go. Hunt. Squid Around.

 

No connection to any other element in the game. Cross-dimensional passerby.

 

Sure, most of us could write a killer backstory... but it would be entirely without common anchors or grounding.

 

I find them weird to play anyway, even with a good UI.

 

 

Edited June 28 by Shenanigunner

[Marshal_General]

My character is a nun chosen by the church to undergo a sanctified ritual to merge with this being and become Sister Sanctity.

[Scarlet Shocker]

On 6/27/2024 at 11:36 AM, Ghost said:

Yes

You’re missing the part where you use your imagination to come up with a great backstory.

 

This is exceptionally unhelpful and unnecessary.

 

The OP is specifically asking for guidance - which when trying to understand a concept is a pretty good strategy. To retort with such a worthless response comes across as small-minded and petty. Perhaps you should consider more carefully how you post in the future

[GM Crumpet]

It depends on your RP take. Some people pick them because they are cool, others because they like the mechanics, others because they have a great back story. My warshade for instance was caught up in a peacebringer/nictus fight and came across a dying nictus. The human saved the nictus life by merging with him and the nictus was impressed with the humans kindness. A peacebringer leader arrived and tried to kill the new warshade but the human convinced her to give them a chance. They now work along with the peacebringers to help other nictus understand there is another way. In my mind it's more Venom than Trill. Two individuals in a mutually beneficial relationship rather than a merging of personalities and memories. The symbiote is generally bad, but the human is teaching it that there is another way to live. It still enjoys sucking the life energy out of the bad guys, but doesn't generally eat the good guys any more.

[GM Crumpet]

On 6/27/2024 at 11:19 AM, Zombra said:

Hi again! I've been wanting to try playing a Kheldian again (I had one back in the day), but it's really rough trying to make sense of a character concept.

 

I looked at the wiki for most of the lore, and here are the basics of what I've gathered (and haven't gathered).

 

There are these aliens from space, at war with other aliens from space.

They don't have bodies - they're just life energy or something.  Some of them feed on life energy so they kill each other by sucking it out.

They can get bodies by merging with hosts from other planets, including three main races.  Humans, space squids, and space lobsters.  Individual Khelds you see on the street have merged with one, two, or all three.

They have been on Earth for thousands of years.  They have never kept their presence a secret but no one talks about them really at all, it's no big deal.

They don't have any kind of embassy, or relationship with human governments.  There are just some of them kind of standing around Paragon City asking superheroes to help them fight the other aliens.

There is no formal system for acquiring host bodies.  No one has any idea how potential hosts are selected, how they are asked, whether people try to seek out Kheldians to merge with them, or what that process looks like at all.  Sometimes there are just these disembodied aliens and sometimes they end up merging with people.  Like, you know how sometimes you'll find a horse tangled up in a fence?  It's kinda like that - sometimes you'll find a soul sucking spirit alien who merged with a human being.  It doesn't happen much, except when it does, and then you see one and people are like "Welp, there's one of them whaddayacalls."

 

This is all rather unsatisfactory in terms of trying to make a lore-friendly Kheldian character with a sensible and interesting backstory.  It just seems like it's going to be "Joe Blow was going to work one day and some alien on the street asked him to merge into a superbeing and he said yah ok bro"

 

Am I missing important information about their deal?  Any insight appreciated.

And you basically called it right. PB and nictus are the same species, but in the distant past the nictus found they could extend their life and power by eating other PB's. There was a war and the Nictus scattered, and the PB's have been hunting them ever since. Earth is one of the battlegrounds as the Nictus found a home and a good source of often willing victims. They can both merge with hosts, but PB's merge with willing hosts who want to help, and Nictus merge with willing (or unwilling) hosts who want power. Warshades differ from Nictus in that they merge with willing hosts to try to redeem themselves and don't dominate the hosts like Nictus do. It takes a strong will to not be totally dominated by a Nictus. Many citizens of Paragon merge with PB's and become law enforcement agents. Lore-wise Warshades are seeking redemption and often (not always) merge with people who aren't exactly paragons of virtue who also want redemption. Sometimes it's accidental. The Nictus merges and the hosts will is so strong the nictus can only follow the hosts instructions. 

The act of merging slows the kheldian aging to almost nothing so they can live for centuries by moving from host to host. Many follow along family or religious lines and as one host is dying a new prepared host steps up. It's a fascinating part of the lore to be honest and you can have almost any back story you wish.

 

(Everything I said is from an old conversation with the original devs. I don't have the link I'm afraid)

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

I actually agree with the OP. I can't think of any other group in the game that has... absolutely no significant explanation or backstory, no matter how corny, convoluted or comicky. Khelds are just... there ya go. Go. Hunt. Squid Around.

 

No connection to any other element in the game. Cross-dimensional passerby.

 

Um...

 

Entire *50 levels* of story there, ties with the Nictus (aka galaxies, Arakhn, Requiem, path of the dark... )

 

"No significant explanation or backstory?" Seriously? I'm sorry, if you're saying that, you've never looked. And not even "looked" as in "have to find these TWO markers in obscure areas" looked - it's RIGHT THERE. It's not even "you need to play a Kheld" backstory - it's there in the Galaxies, War Wolves/Vampyri, the whole "war wolf earth" (the *point* of having to go to get the clue for the mission,) the ... TF whose contact I'm blanking on suddenly... Moonfire TF...  Their story's been there for the majority of the game's life.

[Zombra]

4 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

I can't think of any other group in the game that has... absolutely no significant explanation or backstory, no matter how corny, convoluted or comicky. Khelds are just... there ya go. Go. Hunt. Squid Around.

 

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

"No significant explanation or backstory?" Seriously? I'm sorry, if you're saying that, you've never looked. And not even "looked" as in "have to find these TWO markers in obscure areas" looked - it's RIGHT THERE. It's not even "you need to play a Kheld" backstory - it's there in the Galaxies, War Wolves/Vampyri, the whole "war wolf earth" (the *point* of having to go to get the clue for the mission,) the ... TF whose contact I'm blanking on suddenly... Moonfire TF...  Their story's been there for the majority of the game's life.

 

You're both right ... but imo @Shenanigunner is more right.  The information is there, but hidden if you don't already know where to look.  If I disregard vague memories from 20 years ago, here in 2024 I levelled a non-Kheldian from 1-50 without seeing any mention of Kheldians whatsoever, except the ATs in character creation that say "Yo, these are aliens" and Sunstorm loitering in Atlas Park saying "Yo, I'm an alien."  Never saw anything else.  The game absolutely does not tell you what Kheldians are until you are already playing one, which is too late for someone who wants to create a character from scratch with a canon-friendly concept.  Go, hunt, squid around is indeed all the info I've received in game.

 

EDIT: actually I remember that the Galaxy soldier description may have the word Nictus in there.  So that counts as a mention I guess but is hardly informative.  Actually I'm not sure I saw a single thing from 1-50 that told me that the Nictus and Kheldians are related in any way 😄

 

With that out of the way, I want to thank @Greycat x1,000,000 for the super awesome link with all the collected lore!  Also thank you @GM Crumpet for more solid lore info, and thanks to everyone in the thread for their thoughts character concepts which have given me some good perspective.  In my next post I'm going to ask a clarifying question I'd love opinions on, but I don't have time right this minute.  🙂

 

Edited June 28 by Zombra

[Zombra]

OK, I'm still putting together information.  My big thought experiment is still coming up but before that it would help a lot to know:

 

Do we ever see "unattached" Kheldians in game?  Are there lots of loose energy blobs out there who don't have a host yet?  Is there any talk about 'refugees' who are looking for hosts?  Or can we assume that Kheldians on Earth never stay unattached for long?

 

I did read the mention of Unbound Nictus that you see come out of Shadow Cysts.  If this is the only time we see unbound Khelds that has big implications for how, when, and how often bonding takes place.

 

Oh another question, when a bound Kheldian host physically dies* for whatever reason, does the Kheldian "energy form" emerge like a ghost, to go bind with someone else (or itself be blown to bits by an energy beam, or eaten by a Nictus)?  That's kind of how it seems.  Do we know anything different?

 

*Not to be confused with being defeated and going to the hospital 🙂

 

Looking forward to any clarification from fact experts .. @Greycat I'm hoping to hear from you!

 

Edited June 28 by Zombra

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Zombra said:

Do we ever see "unattached" Kheldians in game?  Are there lots of loose energy blobs out there who don't have a host yet?  Is there any talk about 'refugees' who are looking for hosts?  Or can we assume that Kheldians on Earth never stay unattached for long?

 

The ones we tend to see are going to be Nictus - most infamously the one that empowers Imperious.  Now, we *do* see Kheldians - not just Nictus, there are rogue Peacebringers (at least early-ish in the Kheldian storylines)  - in some missions in squid/lobster form *without* seeing them revert to a host, so whether they're attached to a host or not is left unclear.

 

As far as death - the way I tend to read it, it would depend on how and why the host died. After all, Void Hunters are around specifically to kill Kheldians, their weapons (in game mechanics, at least) used to do unresistable Nictus damage specifically. Again, my read here - the Kheldian and host could split voluntarily ("My job's done and I have to go on" or "I'm getting too old, time for you to get a new host," for instance,) the Kheldian would survive and separate at sudden or traumatic death by "normal" means (meaning non-Kheld-specific ways - car crash, bullet to the head, exsanguination) if the Kheld can't repair it, or the host and Kheld would die if hit by Kheld-targeting or affecting ways (from Quantum weaponry to possibly something else that would target the Kheldian energy matrix - maybe a high dose of some sort of radiation, being teleported into a star, that sort of thing.)

 

The twist there is that we know forcible separation is traumatic for both the host and the Kheldian. I'd *suspect* >.> death counts there. But I don't know if there's a scale involved - for  instance, if a host just dies in their sleep, is the Kheld fine and still fully aware of themselves and left floating there going "Oh, no, goodbye Jim, I'll remember you - I need to find a new host" or if there's some degree of disorientation or loss of "self" there. I'd *suspect* that the less time there is to prepare, the more loss-of-self or more disorienting it is (and even more if they're trying to *stay* joined, such as the storyline where a Kheldian and host are forced apart.)

 

Staying unattached - Again, mostly assumption, since what *we* tend to see are the soldiers in a war, so there's different imperatives right from the starting point. But given the Kheldian lifespan was the driver for the Nictus to become Nictus, to where they began feeding on their own kind, I'd lean towards "if they don't have to stay unbound, they won't if they can help it." (The Nictus also have the side factor of being weakened if they've travelled via Cyst, thus having prisoners who have been kept weak and can't fight back handy to play Motel 6 for them when they arrive.)  Whether that happens in "civilian Kheldians" or they tend to stay happy with their otherwise short (to us) lifespan, I couldn't say.

 

 

[srmalloy]

4 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

It's a fascinating part of the lore to be honest and you can have almost any back story you wish.

Mine was an attempt to come up with a way to create a Peacebringer that wasn't a prearranged merge:

 

 Aðalbörg Málhildursdottir was a crewmember aboard the fishing ship Mariusuð when it was struck by a rogue wave, throwing her overboard, capsizing and sinking the ship. Almost dead from exposure, she was found by a Peacebringer scoutship, but the crew were unable to stabilize her. In an emergency decision, Sudlaach, one of the Kheldians in the crew, offered to merge with her to save her life. She accepted, and the two were joined. The newly-joined Peacebringer was brought to Paragon City, where she took up the name 'Leiðarljos' ('Beacon') as a symbol of her new life.

[High_Beam]

I had to roll one because I lost a bet.  It had the ugliest costume ever.  It was named Squid Markz LOL.

 

Wait, why am I posting?

 

 

[Luminara]

[biostem]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:19 AM, Zombra said:

Am I missing important information about their deal?

So in a comic book setting, (or any sci-fi/fantasy one, for that matter), the concept of an "energy being" that is incorporeal isn't that far out there.  That being said, a Kheldian's ability to traverse interstellar distances is kind of handwaved away, as in-game they don't exhibit that level of power.  Moving past that, it can basically be boiled down to 2 categories, (with a further subdivision of the 2nd).  Those being:

 

Did the Kheldian join with their host willing or unwillingly?  If willing, then they become a Peacebringer.  If unwilling, they start off as a Nictus.  Now, players cannot be Nictus, instead they can play as a "reformed Nictus", henceforth referred to as a "Warshade'.

 

The "forms" you mentioned, ("squid" or "lobster", "Nova" or "Dwarf"), are merely memories or afterimages of previous hosts that the Kheldian can also assume with their current host.  Theoretically, it wouldn't be impossible for a Kheldian to have merged with other such aliens in the past to assume their forms, but that isn't available in-game.

Edited June 29 by biostem

[Shenanigunner]

8 hours ago, Greycat said:

"No significant explanation or backstory?" Seriously? I'm sorry, if you're saying that, you've never looked.

 

Okay. It's eluded me as a fairly involved player for 15-odd years. As the following post suggests, it's only there if you know where to look... and no, I am not so involved I've read the entire wiki etc.

 

Just sayin' — Why can I write full-length essays on nearly every foe, mob and passel of bad guys in the game EXCEPT Khelds? I've absorbed all that info through direct gameplay and some backstory reading, but can't remember a single thing about squids except what you pick up playing one.

 

So, I dunno.

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, biostem said:

Did the Kheldian join with their host willing or unwillingly?  If willing, then they become a Peacebringer.  If unwilling, they start off as a Nictus.  Now, players cannot be Nictus, instead they can play as a "reformed Nictus", henceforth referred to as a "Warshade'.

 

 

It's ... more involved than that. The willing vs unwilling is really just Nictus vs Warshade. Peacebringers were never altered to live off the energy of other Kheldians (or other beings.)

 

Basically, Peacebringers and Nictus/Warshades are - we'd probably consider them two subspecies, if not artificially speciated, thanks to what the Nictus did to themselves. From there, yes, Nictus vs Warshade are pretty much philosophical differences.

 

Players can, theoretically, be Nictus, since we can side swap. There's just zero storyarc or contact support for it. I keep planning on writing an AE series specifically to support that, but I just don't have the free time I used to. (You could, if you chose to stay humanform and skip or put off a few powers, be a Galaxy as well  - but we don't have the costume for it. You can get close to a Void Hunter, but the powers don't line up.)

Edited June 29 by Greycat
little extra detail

[WumpusRat]

12 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

I actually agree with the OP. I can't think of any other group in the game that has... absolutely no significant explanation or backstory, no matter how corny, convoluted or comicky. Khelds are just... there ya go. Go. Hunt. Squid Around.

 

No connection to any other element in the game. Cross-dimensional passerby.

 

Sure, most of us could write a killer backstory... but it would be entirely without common anchors or grounding.

 

I find them weird to play anyway, even with a good UI.

 

A very frequently-run TF (Moonfire) is all about Kheldians, and how she's getting you to help fight against the Nictus, how the Council is forcibly merging Nictus with their soldiers, etc.

 

Where do you think all the Council Nictus guys come from? 

 

As far as "no connection to any other element in the game", again, that's untrue. See above. 

Bt even then, I have a bunch of adventurers who got plane-shifted from their D&D/Pathfinder homeworld and ended up in Paragon. They literally have zero "connection" to Earth or anything else. But they don't need to. 

 

One of the characters I have (that I need to get around leveling) is a warshade who is a "serial possessor". The nictus just grabs the nearest person, uses them until they die, then grabs another one and keeps going. My plan is to shift through the various costume slots to have each one be a new "body" it's possessing.