Why I'm Leaving

[Yomo Kimyata]

10 hours ago, Octogoat said:

I just don't get the hate maybe I'm dense. There's so much to do, so many years of content, more on the way, and it's free. Doesn't even need a powerful computer. What is not to love?

 

The turkey's a little dry.

 

 

[Azari]

HC is way better than live IMO…. The AH market was f*cked up beyond repair on Live, & it made building toons a PITA.  As a high schooler, I didn’t have time for minmaxing.  Now I do.

[Psamanthe]

2 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

In which way would you like me to elaborate? The amount of people who left in comparison to the people who stayed? Or would you like me to elaborate as to why I have seen people leave and the complaints they made over the last 20 years?  ... (Edit: wall of text, reducing to headers, click the arrow to read the OP.)
 

PLAYER NUMBERS

 

VARIOUS REASONS PEOPLE HAVE LEFT

 

Level of difficulty

Sound Nerfs

Toxic player behavior both in game and on these forums

Other issues I have seen people complain about before leaving the game

Wrapping it up

 

My friends stopped playing for a very different reason that isn't present in the above list:

"I left before the shutdown.  And newer games have made the pain points of City of Heroes stick out more than they did back then."

"After (insert player) passed away, I can't come back.  It hurts too much playing it without them."

"I miss Paragon Studios and that time the game existed in.  If they aren't coming back, neither should I."

 

And my roommate: "I enjoyed it in my 20s.  Now that I am in my 40s I have no time to play City of Heroes... I'm too busy for any video games."

 

I think more people are facing those reasons rather than being displeased with decisions that Homecoming made in the last 6 years.  Something no effort on HC Staff or on our part can fix.

 

Perhaps they just moved on.  And not all of the inactive accounts in Homecoming's logs are disgruntled exits for "bad decisions".

Edited Sunday at 10:23 PM by Psamanthe
Double-post, hid one.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Psamanthe said:

My friends stopped playing for a very different reason that isn't present in the above list:

"I left before the shutdown.  And newer games have made the pain points of City of Heroes stick out more than they did back then."

"After (insert player) passed away, I can't come back.  It hurts too much playing it without them."

"I miss Paragon Studios and that time the game existed in.  If they aren't coming back, neither should I."

 

And my roommate: "I enjoyed it in my 20s.  Now that I am in my 40s I have no time to play City of Heroes... I'm too busy for any video games."

 

I think more people are facing those reasons rather than being displeased with decisions that Homecoming made in the last 6 years.  Something no effort on HC Staff or on our part can fix.

 

Perhaps they just moved on.  And not all of the inactive accounts in Homecoming's logs are disgruntled exits for "bad decisions".

 

I don't think it is an either or, I think it is more of an all the (between the reasons I gave and the ones you gave) above. Having said that, I believe your reasons listed are just as valid. I most certainly do not have the monopoly on reasons people quit.  🙂

[Psyonico]

7 hours ago, Solarverse said:

According to Google, City of Heroes (just this server) has over 300,000 accounts.

I would like to see the source of this claim, I couldn’t find it.

 

7 hours ago, Solarverse said:

People have complained on how simple the game has become to play, how there is no real challenge, facerollable, and how everything is just handed to the players with no effort; or the fact that very little is earned. People were upset over how easy the game has become, how now the game has become about go go go rather than let's work together to defeat a challenging experience, I suspect primarily due to how easy the game has become due to power creep.

HC has worked to address some of these issues with the addition of Hard Mode and various balance things (I’m looking at you, proposed tank nerfs)

 

7 hours ago, Solarverse said:

I have seen others leave in the early years due to the nerfing of aggro limitations when that was never needed in the first place.

Are you… are you complaining about changes that were made 20 years ago?  Btw: this has had zero impact on Homecoming because, as I said, it happened 20 years ago.

 

And yes, the addition of an aggro cap *was* in fact needed, it lead to the longevity of the game.  People were not paying to play “City of Wait For The Tanker To Heard The Map”

 

7 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Then you have the sound nerfs, they removed certain sounds out of the game because of the stacking problems that were bothering some people.

your privilege is showing.  I was not personally affected by sound issues in game, but I have empathy for those that did.  I *was* however affected by Sonic Resonance in its original form where the graphics would give me a migraine.  I literally had to quit teams if a sonic joined.

 

First of all, I doubt anyone actually left the game because of changes to power sounds, secondly, if the devs *hadn’t* made those changes (or the changes to Sonic Resonance’s graphics) they *would* lose players because of people getting physically ill.

 

7 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Then you had the problem of AE babies, who don't know how to play the game, but are directed straight to AE and then power leveled to instant level 50.

Does Twinshot/Dr. Graves direct players to AE? I don’t remember, but if they do, that’s the only thing in the game outside of AE that actually references AE.  And if they do in fact mention AE, they don’t say “Go to the AE in Pocket D to get power leveled”. Heck, they don’t even say “Go to the AR in Pocket D”.

 

 Yes, AE babies are a thing, but nothing that the game does is what causes it.

 

7 hours ago, Solarverse said:

and if you dare attempt to change that in any way, they will for sure attack you for your ideas

this is a symptom of the internet and semi-anonymity, it is not the fault of City or Homecoming.  I’ve seen it in every game forum that I’ve ever been on.  I’m pretty sure that there are in fact some people on these forums that just like telling people “no”, but the vast majority of people I actually interact with in game like change.

 

7 hours ago, Solarverse said:

So rather than fight against them because of the gatekeeping, players just leave.

I’d hazard a guess that those people are more likely to just leave the forum than the game as a whole.

 

7 hours ago, Solarverse said:

however, let us not pretend that players who preferred the game when it was more difficult

I’d argue the game hasn’t gotten that much easier *as a whole* and in fact has content today that would have seemed impossible to overcome in the early days of city… iTrials, Hard Modes, these things were designed to be difficult, but people have had 21 years to learn how to “game the game” and therefore make it *seem* easier than it is.

 

I’ll admit, IOs made the game easier than pre-IOs, but I don’t think they made the game much easier than pre ED/GDN.  Also, on live there was a massive barrier in getting into IOs which was simply the sheer cost of buying them.  If you weren’t rich before IOs, you wouldn’t get a good build.

 

That did change with HC because prices are more affordable now, but I don’t think that is driving people away, again, see the difficult content that has been added.

 

7 hours ago, Solarverse said:

we would not have seen players complaining about all the debt they accumulated and demanded the debt be nerfed.

So, the thing about debt… it’s not challenging, it’s just annoying.  And people don’t like things are annoying just to be annoying.

 

 The original Guild Wars had challenges after death… your character got 15% weaker (up to a max of -60%) each time you died.  You could work this off by gaining experience.  But if you died 3-4 times in a row, you just… couldn’t complete the content that time, you were too weak.

 

debt just slows down your experience and makes the game more grindy.

 

7 hours ago, Solarverse said:

The game was never insanely hard, but you at least could die several times in even some of the more easier missions, such as Frostfire.

Frostfire has not been made easier, the only change that has been made since its release is the addition of the cutscene.  People have just gotten better at the game.

 

In fact, other than right near Officer Wincott (where I’m pretty sure spawn size has been reduced) the Hollows hasn’t been made easier.  The introduction of earlier travel powers and things like Athletic Run have just made it easier to navigate.  I run Hollows fairly regularly on new toons still… the “defeat igneous in Grendel’s Gulch” mission is still really hard on most low level characters.

[lemming]

40 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

8 hours ago, Solarverse said:

According to Google, City of Heroes (just this server) has over 300,000 accounts.

I would like to see the source of this claim, I couldn’t find it.

 

The 300,000 accounts are probably from the attached  article which mentioned 300k accounts, but also the month users was around 42k

https://massivelyop.com/2024/03/07/over-42000-people-played-city-of-heroes-homecoming-in-the-last-month/

[lemming]

45 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

Frostfire has not been made easier

Just to tag along on this.

 

A lot of the early game is a little easier with more access to more temp powers, movement, and better enhancements.   The big thing is just the grind of if you die having to hospital to Atlas, walk back to the hollows, then survive to the mission door again.   A lot of that got easier pre-shutdown, but it was a hurdle early days.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

Are you… are you complaining about changes that were made 20 years ago?  Btw: this has had zero impact on Homecoming because, as I said, it happened 20 years ago.

 

And yes, the addition of an aggro cap *was* in fact needed, it lead to the longevity of the game.  People were not paying to play “City of Wait For The Tanker To Heard The Map”

 

There was a huge push during Homecoming to ease up on the aggro limit. It was completely shot down. As far as the addition of an aggro cap being needed, that is HIGHLY debatable. Most people who would put up a fight on that one has already left the game. Also, the whole, "wait for the Tanker" was covered in that post that you quoted. Why did you leave that out when I covered it already? Just curious. I responded to your statement before you even made the statement, seems odd to me to make a statement while ignoring the proactive response, as if I never brought it up.

 

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

your privilege is showing.  I was not personally affected by sound issues in game, but I have empathy for those that did.  I *was* however affected by Sonic Resonance in its original form where the graphics would give me a migraine.  I literally had to quit teams if a sonic joined.

 

First of all, I doubt anyone actually left the game because of changes to power sounds, secondly, if the devs *hadn’t* made those changes (or the changes to Sonic Resonance’s graphics) they *would* lose players because of people getting physically ill.

 

My privilege? What privilege? 

This is something else that I already covered. I am beginning to think that you only read the first sentence of each paragraph because I did indeed touch up on how the devs gave players the means to get back the stacking sound effects through a /command. In other words, you only hear it if you activate it on YOUR end. I actually wrote a mod that fixed the issue of Sonic Powers. So I was not without empathy myself. The problem was, is that those nerfs were made without making it an option, it took quite some time to get an option to get those powers back. By then the damage was done, players had already left the game over it. The number 1 complaint I heard often in game and even a bit on these forums...Foot Stomp. There were a number of players pretty upset over the stacking effect being removed from Foot Stomp. I personally watched two friends leave over it, almost 3 friends. The third actually stayed a bit longer, but he eventually left later on due to other in game issues he took with the game.

 

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

Does Twinshot/Dr. Graves direct players to AE? I don’t remember, but if they do, that’s the only thing in the game outside of AE that actually references AE.  And if they do in fact mention AE, they don’t say “Go to the AE in Pocket D to get power leveled”. Heck, they don’t even say “Go to the AR in Pocket D”.

 

 Yes, AE babies are a thing, but nothing that the game does is what causes it.

 

I never said the game directs people to it. Not once. I did however say that it was an issue that has caused some players to leave the game. It's the constant begging in chat to be PLed, it's how players will PL newbies without a care in the world as to how it affects others in game when they have to deal with a player who was an AE baby. New players see the chat, then gravitate to AE. "How do I get to the AE building?" is a question often seen in chat.

 

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

So, the thing about debt… it’s not challenging, it’s just annoying.  And people don’t like things are annoying just to be annoying.

 

It was not the debt that made things challenging. It was the fact that people got killed teaming in those days enough to make debt a pain in the rear. I used that as a point that the game was once challenging enough to gain people enough debt that they complain on the forums. I did not use debt to indicate that it was debt that made the game hard. I think you misunderstood the point there.

 

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

I’d hazard a guess that those people are more likely to just leave the forum than the game as a whole.

 

Not true. The way people talk to each other on the forums is rough, and that is only a G-Rated version of how players talk to each other in game sometimes. Also, they leave the game because while they are on the forums trying to ask for change that could potentially bring a more challenging experience, they are met with some nasty responses. When this happens, they realize the game will never be the challenging experience they had hoped that it would be, so...they left. I had a few friends who left due to this very reason...I soon followed.

 

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

I’d argue the game hasn’t gotten that much easier *as a whole*

 

Except that it has. The introduction of being able to change the difficulty of the game for starters. Getting all the Large Inspirations upon Leveling. High level players who are geared to the teeth joining lower level teams, not having to work for your travel power, having everything open from early level, such as Hasten, Stamina, Health. All of which if you wanted in the older days, you had to work for it. The instant gratification of instantly having capes and auras available upon character creation, instead of earning them. There are many aspects that made the game easier. I could go on and on about that. Easier to play and easier to obtain the things that was once a stage in your character's evolution.

 

Now, I am not trying to have a back and forth with you, I just wanted to respond to your questions/statements, so I won't elaborate further and am going to drop the conversation. I don't even like posting these forums anymore. So I am going back to radio silence after this. I do however hope that helps you see where my head was in that post.

[BrandX]

On 5/31/2025 at 4:54 AM, Techwright said:

Don't bother.  It's not the stuff you used to know.

 

 

 

Not really, no.  It is the nature of an MMO to not remain stagnant.  Even the 2012 version of CoX was not the 2011 version (when I headed out to work with beta on Firefall), and certainly not the 2005 version when I joined during the first Winter Lord event.  Some things change that I wished had not, somethings changed that I agreed needed to change.  One just rolls with the punches.    A comment like the OP is a glib straw man fallacy because there exists no one version of this game.  Only stepping stones between patches. 

 

I can only guess what their thoughts would have been on WoW, for example, which has significantly rewritten the power sets, zones, indeed most of everything many, many times over.  Even their WoW Classic (I think it is called) was not, at release, the same WoW that premiered in 2004.  The developers even said so.  Instead it was something very similar, but with a lot of tweaks to improve on original faults and to make the game compatible with modern technology.

 

 

 

 

Exactly.  I joined during the first Winter Lord event as well and stayed until shut down.  They were not the same.

 

Don't get why people say "It's not what I knew" when I think "Well yeah, it's an MMO"  

 

I love that they continue to update it.  Do I like every update?  Nope.  Did I like every update back with Paragon Studios?  Nope.

 

Still pretty much about picking those right attacks and button smashing. 🙂

[skoryy]

"The game is dying because the devs aren't doing what I personally want them to do."

 

A tale as old as the first game forums. I was there, Gandalf...

[Octogoat]

1 hour ago, skoryy said:

"The game is dying because the devs aren't doing what I personally want them to do."

 

A tale as old as the first game forums. I was there, Gandalf...

You don't understand only I can save the game!

[Ruin Mage]

a tale as old as time. a tale as old as the first ever fart.

[Onlyasandwich]

Please don't go - the drones need you. They love you.

[AerialAssault]

It's okay to admit that you're burned out.

 

God knows the honeymoon period of City of Heroes is back?! was long and euphoric, but like many things, the wonder wears off after a while.

 

City of Heroes has long suffered from a problem that a lot of older MMOs are now running into; it's figured out. Everyone knows the meta, the speedrun strats. It's down to a science and distilled to such a degree that a numbskull like me can, eventually, completely trivialize the game.

 

All you can do is find new experiences. An AT/Set combo you might have never considered. Maybe you'll only do story arc content, or make sure you clear all of zone's story missions before moving on. Badge hunting alone could keep you tied up for hundreds of hours.

 

No game is infinite, and no, the AE doesn't count. At some point, you'll have seen everything, or if you haven't seen it, you can probably make an educated guess. It comes with age and experience.

 

So take a break, a long break if you need to. But you'll get The Itch eventually, and while some things might have changed here or there, it'll still be the same game when you get back.

 

And if it's a permanent break then you are legally and morally obliged to redistribute your wealth, mostly to me because making character builds ain't cheap. @Aerial Assault on Everlasting, thank you for your generosity.

[Snarky]

[Jen-Ru9]

This game is dying, in much the same way literally all of us are dying. One day, CoH won't have enough people to sustain servers. One day, there may not be anyone with both the skills and desire to port it to run on future hardware and OSes. One day, the game itself might be effectively forgotten. Its death is inevitable but, well, so is mine.

 

But y'know what? That's okay. It came back and got the time it deserved rather than the premature death first foisted on it. And if people move on to other games? That's fine. Go have fun, there's more stuff to play now than any one person can ever hope to experience. Maybe they'll come back when the itch hits, maybe not. Maybe they'll only toy around with the character creator rather than engage with the game's systems. But you shouldn't force yourself to play a game just because you have nostalgia for it. It's okay to move on, or to dial back and do other things. Healthy, even!

[BlackSpectre]

Well… I’m staying! Mu ha ha ha ha ha!!

[Forager]

On 5/31/2025 at 11:00 AM, Snarky said:

I thought you had left…

 

Didn't you leave?