$loc vs "here"

[Display Name]

I have a degree in computer programming and I have plenty of experience with information and how easily it's lost in translation.  I don't write programs anymore but *all* of the programs I wrote had *very, very tight* controls over data in order to prevent information from being corrupted.

 

Wait...  You don't understand "data" vs "information?"  It's pretty simple.  "Data" can be simply defined as "too much information."  Something I'm sure everyone is familar with.  But "information" can be called "actionable intelligence."  Neat term, this "actionable intelligence."  It was created by General Michael Flynn before his disgrace to mean "information that we can act upon intelligably."  Data won't get you anywhere.  A list of random phone numbers in no particular order is not useful at all.  But when it's organized into *information,* let's say "alphabetical and by city/state," then you can use it to act intelligently.  Simple, right?

 

That said, I have no understanding at all why a player would say "here" during a team mish or (ESPECIALLY!) a league mish!  Oh, yeah.  Sure!  You can right-click their name (even in the chat) and click "Follow" and magically be transported to their position.  And your conscience is clear!

 

But what if your team consists of complete newbies?  That's *defintely* something to consider in this modern age of CoH/CoV when new players arrive all of the time!  What if you're in a League and have *no idea* what team the player said "here" is on?  Now you have to spend forty-five minutes to three hours checking and rechecking each team (because you forgot to grab your reading glasses) to find that player and interpret the "cut off" of their name in the roster because their name is too long to show completely and *finally* click on them to "Follow."  Ok, my time line is *heavily* exaggerated.  But you know what I mean!

 

As opposed to simply typing "$loc" to broadcast their position far and wide for anyone to simply click on and create a waypoint to easily find.

 

Why is this so difficult?  I try to explain to players the advantages of this and they "tut-tut" me with "there's nothing to see here."

[Logansan]

Yes, that can be frustrating, but then again not everyone automatically knows all the /slash commands in the game as soon as they start playing. Nowhere in game is this command stated (at least from what I remember), nor have I ever seen anyone (recently) mention it in chat. I'm aware of it, but then I've been playing since the game's release.

 

You could had just posted, a much shorter comment advising people about the command and how to use it (not that the majority of players, especially the newer ones, read the forums anyway).

 

But on the plus side, just maybe a few players that weren't aware of it, will now find out about it from your post. 🙂

[Forager]

This reminds me of this PUG strike force I was on a couple months ago. There was a guy who was ranting about this. He couldn't find the TT and had a meltdown, spamming the chat about how stupid we all were and how none of us knew the $loc command.

 

He kept posting his coordinates and was like "I bet none of you know how to do this!" Like 20 times. It went on for a crazy long time.

 

He also sucked and died a lot.

 

Anyway... I like "here" better. I'm not sure why.

 

[gameboy1234]

1 hour ago, Logansan said:

But on the plus side, just maybe a few players that weren't aware of it, will now find out about it from your post.

 

You can just open your map and see where players are.  If you mouse hover over (or click, forget now which) on the green triangles it'll tell you who is who.  Click on their name in the team window and follow the green box works well too, but if you need to follow some twists and turns the map works better.

 

The $loc command didn't used to exist, it was just /loc and only showed you, not your team, where you were.  So no guides talk about it and it's not used a lot by experienced players.  (It's not used at all, ime, except in open chat channels.)

 

If a player isn't on the map, clicking the big right pointing arrow on the right side of team window will tell you what zone any player is in, if they're not in the same zone as you.  If they're on a mission map, the team window will say that and the Navigation window will tell you what zone the map is in. 

 

It's not hard.  I mean, it's not hard if you've been doing it for twenty odd years.  Practically muscle memory by now!

 

[Erratic1]

Does /loc say how to get to me? What barriers are in the way? What path to take?

 

"Here" making people look at the map (or hit click my name and hit [F]) gives them more to go on.

[Clave Dark 5]

"Present"

[Andreah]

It's simple. "Here" is human language. "$loc" is not.

[KaizenSoze]

9 hours ago, Display Name said:

I have a degree in computer programming and I have plenty of experience with information and how easily it's lost in translation.  I don't write programs anymore but *all* of the programs I wrote had *very, very tight* controls over data in order to prevent information from being corrupted.

 

Wait...  You don't understand "data" vs "information?"  It's pretty simple.  "Data" can be simply defined as "too much information."  Something I'm sure everyone is familar with.  But "information" can be called "actionable intelligence."  Neat term, this "actionable intelligence."  It was created by General Michael Flynn before his disgrace to mean "information that we can act upon intelligably."  Data won't get you anywhere.  A list of random phone numbers in no particular order is not useful at all.  But when it's organized into *information,* let's say "alphabetical and by city/state," then you can use it to act intelligently.  Simple, right?

 Were you in my tips teams last night? Because there was the exact same discussion going on in team chat.

 

The tank was chaos pulling, but since we were keeping up I didn't say anything.

[tidge]

9 hours ago, Display Name said:

Wait...  You don't understand "data" vs "information?"  It's pretty simple.  "Data" can be simply defined as "too much information."  Something I'm sure everyone is familar with.  But "information" can be called "actionable intelligence."  Neat term, this "actionable intelligence."  It was created by General Michael Flynn before his disgrace to mean "information that we can act upon intelligably."  Data won't get you anywhere.  A list of random phone numbers in no particular order is not useful at all.  But when it's organized into *information,* let's say "alphabetical and by city/state," then you can use it to act intelligently.  Simple, right?

 

Even simpler: a data point is a discrete bit of knowledge; information is the relationship between multiple data points.

[lemming]

8 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

It's not hard.  I mean, it's not hard if you've been doing it for twenty odd years.  Practically muscle memory by now!

Easy on a team, not so much on a league.    Though I like the scheme most people use on labyrinth teams (and msr)  which is Info plus team # and position.   Since if there are multiple people with similar names, makes it much faster to scan for.

[Snarky]

11 hours ago, Display Name said:

I have a degree in computer programming and I have plenty of experience with information and how easily it's lost in translation.  I don't write programs anymore but *all* of the programs I wrote had *very, very tight* controls over data in order to prevent information from being corrupted.

 

Wait...  You don't understand "data" vs "information?"  It's pretty simple.  "Data" can be simply defined as "too much information."  Something I'm sure everyone is familar with.  But "information" can be called "actionable intelligence."  Neat term, this "actionable intelligence."  It was created by General Michael Flynn before his disgrace to mean "information that we can act upon intelligably."  Data won't get you anywhere.  A list of random phone numbers in no particular order is not useful at all.  But when it's organized into *information,* let's say "alphabetical and by city/state," then you can use it to act intelligently.  Simple, right?

 

That said, I have no understanding at all why a player would say "here" during a team mish or (ESPECIALLY!) a league mish!  Oh, yeah.  Sure!  You can right-click their name (even in the chat) and click "Follow" and magically be transported to their position.  And your conscience is clear!

 

But what if your team consists of complete newbies?  That's *defintely* something to consider in this modern age of CoH/CoV when new players arrive all of the time!  What if you're in a League and have *no idea* what team the player said "here" is on?  Now you have to spend forty-five minutes to three hours checking and rechecking each team (because you forgot to grab your reading glasses) to find that player and interpret the "cut off" of their name in the roster because their name is too long to show completely and *finally* click on them to "Follow."  Ok, my time line is *heavily* exaggerated.  But you know what I mean!

 

As opposed to simply typing "$loc" to broadcast their position far and wide for anyone to simply click on and create a waypoint to easily find.

 

Why is this so difficult?  I try to explain to players the advantages of this and they "tut-tut" me with "there's nothing to see here."

Can you make this shorter?  I got bored after you said something about degrees.  Why do degrees affect location.  We dont have hot/cold

[Glacier Peak]

Click my name, I'm right here. Not over there, where you are.

[COH Radgen]

I'm usually on Excelsior and 'Here' can definitely be an issue.  There are times when there are swarms of Kronos Titans and not everyone who is hunting/defeating them is on a team or league.  If one of those broadcasts 'Kronos here!' then there's little if any way to actually find the player unless you happen to be close.  I or one of the others will usually then broadcast or PM information on using '$loc' so others can actually find the Titan.  This can happen in Skyway also when a Babbage spawns and the extra people available to help defeat are not teamed/leagued.

[Ukase]

11 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

You can just open your map and see where players are.

Not always. 

By default, you should be able to. But it is crazy to me how many settings get borked either by the player or who knows what. 
Just a couple of days ago, an old retail vet came back to the game and was on an MSR. Dude couldn't find the pylons. I suspect they turned "special" off for some reason. I think there's at least one map where "special" being on hides a badge marker from vidiotmaps.

Same goes with teammates or leaguemates. Courtesy screenshot, since I know you folks know this already. Just a reminder. 
 

Spoiler

 

 

I led a dfb this morning with a new player, and I was painstakingly describing what to expect in the most clear way I knew how, because I honestly have no idea what a new player knows, and what they don't. And after it was over, I felt like a 6 year old could have done a dfb as well as any adult if they read the instructions. 

Player quit right before Meinst. At least they didn't cost us the badge. Some days, you can't win by being patient or being a jerk. People can surprise us at any time. 

[Xalon]

Whenever someone says "boss is over here" or something like that, I open map > put cursor over dots to find name of player > go to where that player is. Takes maybe 5 seconds total.

[ZemX]

18 hours ago, Display Name said:

Why is this so difficult?  I try to explain to players the advantages of this and they "tut-tut" me with "there's nothing to see here."

 

If you had limited this to league and open-world broadcast, you'd have a point... but if you're complaining to people on a regular team?  C'mon dude.  "Here" is just fine.  Target them.  Find them.  

 

On rare occasions, I will drop coords in a team, like when I am dropping a Team Transporter after we've done a zone hunt and the next mish is elsewhere. "TT at $loc" and I can go right away without having to stick around.   Or I'll do it on a mission where we're scouting multiple objectives in an outdoor area.  But most of the time, I just want the team to come to me because we need to clear a room or something.

 

But generally, I expect probably a smallish minority of people who play this game even know about $loc.

[Scarlet Shocker]

In other news, moles are now in charge of terraforming our planet and creating new mountain ranges