Super Speed

[Ultimo]

I'm posting this thread to start some discussion, so I can put together an actual suggestion for the suggestion forum.  I find myself somewhat dissatisfied with Super Speed, and I was thinking about ways to improve it, mainly for presentation, but also for performance.  I thought I'd see what others think about it.

 

So... super speed is one of the most iconic powers in the comics.  There are a host of characters that have some variation of it.  I've tried making characters in the game that are essentially speedsters, but they just lack something fundamental, and I've been trying to figure out how the Super Speed power set might be changed to better represent how super speed is used in the comics, and how it might be better represented for game effect.

 

First, the main thing about super speed is that characters are FAST.  Not just that they act quickly, which we do get from Hasten, but that they MOVE quickly.  We have the travel power component of Super Speed, but once you attack, movement power suppression takes hold, and we move like anyone else.  I see this as an issue.

 

Second, the extra effect from Super Speed, Speed Phase, is of very limited value to say the least.  Perhaps we can come up with something to replace that with something more useful?

 

Flurry is fine, but it roots the character, which is a problem because you're not very fast when standing still.

 

I originally thought Whirlwind was kind of useless, but I've kind of changed my tune on that, as I find it quite useful at keeping enemies from attacking me while I can still attack them.  My only complaint on this power is that attacking makes you stop spinning... perhaps we can do something with the animation so we attack while still spinning?

 

My final thought is that one of the most obvious uses of Super Speed would be to hit enemies as we go by them, a running clothesline at super speed.  Now, we can queue up an attack and have it go off after we've moved past, but there's no effect from the SPEED.  Perhaps we can add some effect that increases damage, or knockback, or something like that, as a factor of the movement of the character?

 

Anyway, these are just some initial thoughts.  What do you guys think?  Are you happy with Super Speed as it is?  If you could change something, what would you change?

 

 

[PartyKake]

Speed is one of those powers/powersets that's innately hard to belence for a few reasons.

 

It's worth noting that force = mass times acceleration squared. 

For every time that you think "if only I could hit harder" just imagine, hitting faster is exponentially more power.

 

And to compound this, video game speedrunners will tell you that speed always beats power no matter how much power you need. 

If speed isn't innately nerfed, it's always better than everything else, no exceptions.

 

I personally like the power set a lot because I love the sound effect of activating it. And also hasten is cool too.

However I'll also admit that the phase thing was always weird to me and I've never used it. There's no circumstance where it would ever be useful to me.

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, Ultimo said:

but once you attack, movement power suppression takes hold,

If we could remove this, I might start to pvp again. This change was brought about in some attempt to make pvp more fair...for someone. Because of the pvp circumstances, I think we're stuck with this turd side-effect. 

The worst thing about flurry is if you miss, you miss all of them instead of one or two of the 8 punches. 

As for tornado, I've never seen any teammate every use it in a mission or zone event. 

Speed Phase does have limited utility - Morty Kal. We can phase right through the shields. Clicking can be problematic depending on your camera view. Most teams can blast through fairly easily though, so I agree - some adjustments could be in order. 

[Glacier Peak]

Super Speed great, already received QoL adjustments by Homecoming, and the problem presented by the original post can be mitigated by the player if they focus their build towards set bonuses that apply global run speed buffs which don't supress in combat. Or just team with a Kin who can Speed Boost you. Use Speed Phase when running through sewer or cave maps where enemies block the door. Use the jump boost to ascend vertically when traveling through dense parts of the city. Enjoy!

[MTeague]

As a Travel Power, Super Speed is adequate.  Especially with the Stealth and with Speed Phase.

 

If you're looking for something that makes it feel like your character races around the battlefield in the blink of an eye, like Quicksilver in the X-Men movies, Super Speed will not do that, and was never even once designed to do that. Ever. The closest you can come to that in City of Heroes is a /Martial Combat blaster, and probably using Speed of Sound rather than Super Speed.

• Speed of Sound still lets you zoom down the street.  The zooming is very important.
• Speed of Sound also gets you Jaunt, for 3 quick short range teleports around the field, as if you were moving "faster than the can follow". 
• /Martial Combat - Burst Of Speed gives you 3 additional PBAE teleport punches, again, emulating you smacking people around without them able to react. 
• /Martial Combat - Reaction Time gives you a wide area PBAE movement debufff and recharge debuff, again, making you feel faster than everyone else around you. It's never going to be the "Sweet Dreams are Made of This" from the X-Men, but hey, it's way more than the Super Speed power pool does for you. 
• /Martial Combat - Ki Push, can also be interpreted as you punching someone, and moving so fast that you can attack them 2-3 times while they still are flying through the air.

But do be aware. There is NO powerset, in the entire game, that is ever going to make you really feel like Quicksilver.  

[Glacier Peak]

11 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Because of the pvp circumstances, I think we're stuck with this turd side-effect.

Movement supression existed before PvP (remember jousting?). 

 

On Homecoming, PvP travel suppression has been disabled in PvP zones and is turned off by default in arena matches, but it can be re-enabled if desired.

[Ultimo]

One of my speedsters is a Defender with Kinetics.  When using Drain Speed, his speed is substantially increased.  Even with Super Speed turned off, his movement rate is quite adequate.  The issue is that only THAT set has access to that power... and any character with Super Speed really ought to be able to move around like that.  Perhaps the set needs some kind of power to use as "combat running"?  Teleport has combat teleporting, Leaping has combat jumping... why not make something similar for Super Speed?

 

As for the idea of running past an enemy to do damage... what if Super Speed had a dash attack, like Shield Charge?

[Ravenplume]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

As a Travel Power, Super Speed is adequate.  Especially with the Stealth and with Speed Phase.

 

 

But do be aware. There is NO powerset, in the entire game, that is ever going to make you really feel like Quicksilver.  

 

To quote my own Speedster, Johnny Faster (formerly Generic78882354 until he removed his middle name, Fokker, from his registration), "I'm trying!  I'm trying!"

[Latex]

I actually think Superspeed is the best travel powerset, not just in power but in theme, fun, and use.

Hasten is used in practically every build there is, there is rarely reason not to take it.
Superspeed is great now with the 'running longer makes you jump higher'
Burnout is such a unique power that it makes some very specific builds shine (Gang War MM), I usually take it too, because my blaster likes to nuke 2 packs in a row, not 1.
 

[MonteCarla]

Flurry looks cool, but is rubbish.

 

I made a speedster once (Energy Melee/Electric Armor scrapper), and loaded her up with all the +Movement speed set bonuses I could find for unsuppressed combat speed, and she worked pretty well. Whizzing past enemies with queued attacks felt quite super-speedy, and often helped confuse the AI enough that they spent more time chasing me than attacking.

Since then there's a new special piece in Thrust that gives you some bonus unsuppressed speed, which might make this experiment even better.

 

But we shouldn't need to go to all that hassle. The set would benefit from something like a "Combat Running" toggle that gives you an unsuppressed movement, and a dash/teleport type attack. Even just raise the suppressed speed of Super Speed and turn Flurry into a dash attack.

[Darmian]

2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

As for the idea of running past an enemy to do damage... what if Super Speed had a dash attack, like Shield Charge?

Sort of a Sonic Boom effect?  

[macskull]

3 hours ago, Ukase said:

If we could remove this, I might start to pvp again. This change was brought about in some attempt to make pvp more fair...for someone. Because of the pvp circumstances, I think we're stuck with this turd side-effect. 

Fun fact, there's no travel suppression at all in PvP on Homecoming, and even back on live PvP had its own separate travel suppression rules after Issue 13. The fact travel suppression wasn't removed in PvE back in 2008, or at any time since, should tell you all you need to know about the theory that travel suppression was added because of PvP.

Edited 14 hours ago by macskull

[Captain Fabulous]

Speed suppression needs to go. Period. It was a bad idea back in i4 and it's still a bad idea today. Just get rid of it already.

[Biff Pow]

I'd like to see Flurry moved to a level 14 power and changed to a decent cone attack.

[BazookaTwo]

My main complaint with Super Speed is needing to change the FX to Minimal. I'd love for that power to be Min FX from the start. Burnout has a ridiculously long recharge and I get why that is...but I can always wish it wasn't. 

[Ultimo]

1 hour ago, Darmian said:

Sort of a Sonic Boom effect?  

Yeah, that's as good an explanation as any!

[Ukase]

13 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Movement supression existed before PvP (remember jousting?). 

I really don't remember movement suppression before that pvp patch. But I am now 58, closing on 59 fairly soon, and I suppose I have my own inherent perception biases like anyone else. I do fondly remember @nemu explaining what jousting was, being in Perez Park and practicing fire sword circle on some low level Skulls.

 

 

[Lockpick]

I would like to see options to reduce the speed of SS.  I use SS mainly for the concealment portion and for traveling.  In maps like caves SS is annoying.  I would love an option to reduce my speed in caves.

[VPrime]

I agree that Super Speed should be the one travel power without suppression during combat.

 

Maybe even make it so that it removes all travel power suppression while toggled on?

 

That way, if you have both Flight and Super Speed toggled on, you don't lose flying speed while fighting.

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, Lockpick said:

I would like to see options to reduce the speed of SS.  I use SS mainly for the concealment portion and for traveling.  In maps like caves SS is annoying.  I would love an option to reduce my speed in caves.

But the celerity in sprint/prestige slide. Then turn off SS in caves. You still get stealth, though not as much. But you've reduced your speed. 

In the caves, very seldom do I run into mobs in the pathways leading to the larger areas of the cave. So, you can turn it back on before you enter those areas, if you need a quick peek. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Ukase
Word correction