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Ideon

Ice/Ice stalker build

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Decided to try an ice/ice stalker because I've never tried either powerset and both are apparently pretty good on stalkers, so put the two together.  Here's a build I plotted out, with some IOs being boostered.  Any suggestions?  Build is softcapped to s/l/e/n, hasten is two seconds off perma.

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

25th Iceblink 2019: Level 50 Technology Stalker
Primary Power Set: Ice Melee
Secondary Power Set: Ice Armor
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Ice Sword -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Hct-Acc/Rchg(21), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Hct-Dam%(23)
Level 1: Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(3), LucoftheG-Def(3), LucoftheG-Rchg+(5), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(27)
Level 2: Frost -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(15), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(27), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 4: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), LucoftheG-Def(11), LucoftheG-Rchg+(13), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(50)
Level 6: Assassin's Ice Sword -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(11)
Level 8: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(13), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 10: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Placate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Hoarfrost -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(39), Prv-Heal/Rchg(40), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(40), Prv-Absorb%(50)
Level 16: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I(A), Slow-I(19)
Level 18: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 20: Permafrost -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(25)
Level 22: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36), UnbGrd-Max HP%(36), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(37)
Level 26: Freezing Touch -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(43), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(45), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(45), GldStr-Dam/Rech(45), GldStr-Acc/Dmg(46)
Level 28: Glacial Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), LucoftheG-Def(29), LucoftheG-Rchg+(33)
Level 30: Weave -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(31), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Rct-Def/Rchg(31), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Rct-ResDam%(46)
Level 32: Frozen Aura -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Acc/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Arm-Dam%(34), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(34)
Level 35: Energy Absorption -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), PrfShf-End%(48), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(48), PrfShf-EndMod(50)
Level 38: Zapp -- SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(42), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(43)
Level 41: Icy Bastion -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 44: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(46)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Assassination 
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(21)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(17)
Level 0: Born In Battle 
Level 0: High Pain Threshold 
Level 0: Invader 
Level 0: Marshal 
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
------------

Edited by Ideon

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One quick fix would be taking the end reduction out of chilling embrace and putting the 6th superior winter's bite in for another 5% f/c defense. That's about all I can see immediately and I'm not familiar enough with ice melee to really dig in.

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Having played an Ice/Ice Tanker ... if you're not slotting Frost for Range enhancement, so as to do the 15 ft high Hop 'n' Pop to turn Frost into a PBAoE-ish attack on everything clustered up around you, rather than simply using it for a pie slice to one side of you ... let's just say you're missing out on a lot of AoE debuffing and damage dealing potential that could keep you alive.

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Ugh, problem is frost is slotted with ATO set, haha.  Hrm, so put the ATO into ice sword, change hecatomb for ragnarok instead to put into frost, have chilling embrace just have one slot and make it a end/slow/rech enhancement since there's no end/slow IO or end/mez HO, and booster that to 5, and with the slot, put it into frost and have a boostered range IO.  And now since hecatomb is free, I can put two pieces of that into freezing touch to bump up the damage even more.  😄

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Do you really need end reduction on a regular priced aura on an IO'd build, especially one with softcapped nrg defense, energy absorption slotted for end mod and recovery all over the place? Just put the slow in there. Even if you exclusively fight carnies i think you'll be ok.

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On 8/15/2019 at 10:00 PM, graeberguinn said:

How good is ice armor? I'm between this and shield I think. Is it def or resist based? And do you notice any issues with fire/Psy? 

I love ice armor.. for stalkers and scrappers. It gives you a good mix defense, resistance, +hp/heal, recovery and regen. Mixed sets like this are just ok on SOs but respond reaaally well to IO builds. Its t9, icy bastion, is the reason to like it on scrappers and stalkers more than tanks and brutes because the latter two get Hibernate instead. Hibernate is awesome, but you can get it from a patron pool for scrap/stalk.

 

I do use shield on occasion, depending on the build (mostly if you need more aoe damage), but ice is my go-to.

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ICE ARMOR IS AMAZING, THAT IS ALL.

 

Currently a vert level Ice/Ice on everlasting, Colder. I highly recommend the combo. Ice Armor is defense based, but provides resistance to elemental attacks, so I guess its a bit of a hybrid, but much stronger on the defense side

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On 8/6/2019 at 11:25 PM, Redlynne said:

Having played an Ice/Ice Tanker ... if you're not slotting Frost for Range enhancement, so as to do the 15 ft high Hop 'n' Pop to turn Frost into a PBAoE-ish attack on everything clustered up around you, rather than simply using it for a pie slice to one side of you ... let's just say you're missing out on a lot of AoE debuffing and damage dealing potential that could keep you alive.

Can you explain more? What is hope n pop?

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Hop 'n' Pop ...

 

Spoiler

 

Use the (modified by me) "Jackie Chan" keybind to stick to your targets in melee.


tilde "targetenemynear$$targetcustomnext alive Quantum$$targetcustomnext alive Void$$targetcustomnext alive Cyst$$targetcustomnext alive Sapper$$follow"

 

One of the tricks I learned while playing Ice/Ice which seemed utterly foreign to everyone I ever met on the Tanker forums was the notion of turning Frost (a Melee Cone attack) into a PBAoE by pointing it in a useful direction.

 

What do I mean by that?

Well, you need to abandon your

in order to understand what I'm talking about here.

 

So with Range slotted into Frost, you can get a Cone Range of about 15 feet on it.

"So what?" ... I hear you cry ... "that's just going to be wasted."

 

Well, that range WOULD be wasted if all you did was stand on the ground and point your cone towards one side of the $Targets that will be attacking you, resulting in one of these:

piechart-512.png

 

If you're surrounded on all sides using a melee cone that misses 3/4 of the attackers and has extra range to waste "beyond the attackers" on that side of you isn't going to help anything ... right?

 

 

 

Well ... that would certainly be true if you stay glued to the ground and only POINT your Frost Cone attack to one SIDE of the $Targets surrounding you.

So why would you want to stay glued to the ground like a Stone Tanker who can't ... JUMP ...?

 

 

 

If you've been paying attention so far, you know what's coming next ... (temporary) three dimensional positioning in order to use your Frost attack WAY MORE effectively ... so as to turn it into more of a PBAoE(ish) attack.

All you have to do is JUMP UP ... about 15 feet ... which you can do perfectly fine with Hurdle and no Combat Jumping and simply "time it" to click Frost when you're at the top of your jump.  So instead of doing a Cone TO THE SIDE like in the above pie chart image, you instead do a Cone that angles DOWN to hit everything clustered up around you like this:

 

spacer.png

 

Do you see how much WIDER the purple ring is than the green ring in that cone?  The purple ring is only 50% farther away from the peak/caster, but it covers a MUCH wider area, catching way more $Targets within it that would all be clustered up upon your Ice/Ice Tanker, where your Chilling Embrace and Icicles auras keep them positioned before (and after) you jump.

 

I call it the "Hop 'n' Pop" move.

You "hop" upwards from the pile of aggro you've got clustered up on you and at the top of your jump you "pop" them with Frost and catch EVERYTHING that was around you on all sides ... just as if you hadn't moved and had been using a PBAoE attack instead.  It'll take all of about 2 seconds to make the jump/attack/fall, you'll hit A LOT more $Targets with your Frost attack, dramatically improving its efficiency of converting endurance into damage, you'll defeat dogpiles of aggro faster and you'll also be debuffing everything attacking you in melee range even more than they would have been debuffed if you'd stayed put on the ground and only pointed Frost at one side of the dogpile instead of hopping above it to catch ALL of them in the Frost Cone before falling right back down in the middle of them.  You don't even need to switch $Targets or anything.  Herd up the aggro onto you and then jump to use Frost on ALL of them.  Your jump height will be almost exactly the distance that a Frost attack enhanced for +50% Range will reach, and thus Frost becomes almost a THIRD DAMAGE AURA for your Tanker, making it even harder to pull aggro off you.

 

The key thing is that with an Ice/Ice Tanker ... you want ALL the aggro.  You're playing a "flypaper" build where you pull them in and don't let go until they flop on the floor (and don't get up again).  EVERYTHING you do is all about drawing Foes in close and debuffing the life out of them so that they will Exist To Death around you while you drain (Energy Absorption), debuff (Chilling Embrace and Frost hops) and damage (Icicles, Frost hops, Frozen Aura stomps) them into submission.  If it's not paying attention to you, Taunt it until it does.  Why?  Because it's SAFER FOR YOU (and everyone else) to be at the center of a vortex of aggro with everything around you in melee range getting -Recharge debuffed by Chilling Embrace and damaged by Icicles (and Frost and Frozen Aura) than it is for them to be at a distance outside of your auras and attacking you.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Redlynne said:

Hop 'n' Pop ...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Use the (modified by me) "Jackie Chan" keybind to stick to your targets in melee.



tilde "targetenemynear$$targetcustomnext alive Quantum$$targetcustomnext alive Void$$targetcustomnext alive Cyst$$targetcustomnext alive Sapper$$follow"

 

One of the tricks I learned while playing Ice/Ice which seemed utterly foreign to everyone I ever met on the Tanker forums was the notion of turning Frost (a Melee Cone attack) into a PBAoE by pointing it in a useful direction.

 

What do I mean by that?

Well, you need to abandon your

in order to understand what I'm talking about here.

 

So with Range slotted into Frost, you can get a Cone Range of about 15 feet on it.

"So what?" ... I hear you cry ... "that's just going to be wasted."

 

Well, that range WOULD be wasted if all you did was stand on the ground and point your cone towards one side of the $Targets that will be attacking you, resulting in one of these:

piechart-512.png

 

If you're surrounded on all sides using a melee cone that misses 3/4 of the attackers and has extra range to waste "beyond the attackers" on that side of you isn't going to help anything ... right?

 

 

 

Well ... that would certainly be true if you stay glued to the ground and only POINT your Frost Cone attack to one SIDE of the $Targets surrounding you.

So why would you want to stay glued to the ground like a Stone Tanker who can't ... JUMP ...?

 

 

 

If you've been paying attention so far, you know what's coming next ... (temporary) three dimensional positioning in order to use your Frost attack WAY MORE effectively ... so as to turn it into more of a PBAoE(ish) attack.

All you have to do is JUMP UP ... about 15 feet ... which you can do perfectly fine with Hurdle and no Combat Jumping and simply "time it" to click Frost when you're at the top of your jump.  So instead of doing a Cone TO THE SIDE like in the above pie chart image, you instead do a Cone that angles DOWN to hit everything clustered up around you like this:

 

spacer.png

 

Do you see how much WIDER the purple ring is than the green ring in that cone?  The purple ring is only 50% farther away from the peak/caster, but it covers a MUCH wider area, catching way more $Targets within it that would all be clustered up upon your Ice/Ice Tanker, where your Chilling Embrace and Icicles auras keep them positioned before (and after) you jump.

 

I call it the "Hop 'n' Pop" move.

You "hop" upwards from the pile of aggro you've got clustered up on you and at the top of your jump you "pop" them with Frost and catch EVERYTHING that was around you on all sides ... just as if you hadn't moved and had been using a PBAoE attack instead.  It'll take all of about 2 seconds to make the jump/attack/fall, you'll hit A LOT more $Targets with your Frost attack, dramatically improving its efficiency of converting endurance into damage, you'll defeat dogpiles of aggro faster and you'll also be debuffing everything attacking you in melee range even more than they would have been debuffed if you'd stayed put on the ground and only pointed Frost at one side of the dogpile instead of hopping above it to catch ALL of them in the Frost Cone before falling right back down in the middle of them.  You don't even need to switch $Targets or anything.  Herd up the aggro onto you and then jump to use Frost on ALL of them.  Your jump height will be almost exactly the distance that a Frost attack enhanced for +50% Range will reach, and thus Frost becomes almost a THIRD DAMAGE AURA for your Tanker, making it even harder to pull aggro off you.

 

The key thing is that with an Ice/Ice Tanker ... you want ALL the aggro.  You're playing a "flypaper" build where you pull them in and don't let go until they flop on the floor (and don't get up again).  EVERYTHING you do is all about drawing Foes in close and debuffing the life out of them so that they will Exist To Death around you while you drain (Energy Absorption), debuff (Chilling Embrace and Frost hops) and damage (Icicles, Frost hops, Frozen Aura stomps) them into submission.  If it's not paying attention to you, Taunt it until it does.  Why?  Because it's SAFER FOR YOU (and everyone else) to be at the center of a vortex of aggro with everything around you in melee range getting -Recharge debuffed by Chilling Embrace and damaged by Icicles (and Frost and Frozen Aura) than it is for them to be at a distance outside of your auras and attacking you.

 

 

But....Scrapperlock... 😜 

 

Just kidding. Back to the topic. In the post of OP, Hide was sloted with more than just unique IOs. That is a waste of slots.

 

Another thing is that Ice Armor is NOT a hybrid set. It is a defense based set with some exotic resistances. Hybrid sets are Bio, WP and EA. 

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Umm... Ice is most definitely a Hybrid set. It's a defense set, sure, but it also has heals, +hp, exotic resistances, -recharge, -speed, and -damage. The 'defense sets' are nin and SR.

Heck, half of it's mitigation is -15% damage, -32% recharge aura, and a frequent massive heal (hoarfrost) and less frequent massive resistance buff (Bastion). Try playing it as a 'defense set' sometime... It's not impossible, but it sucks.

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Here's a decent build I came up with

 

Softcaps S/L/E/N, very close to softcapping F/C too, only Psi is the "hole"

 

45% S/L res, 53% fire, and capped cold, Icy Bastion caps all but Psi, E/N (they are 65% though)

 

Recharge is pretty good, perma hasten, Bastion is up 40% of the time, not bad.

 

Health is very high due to Hoarfrost, would be capped with accolades. You get all the AOEs. Good procs too. 

 

Villain Plan by Hero Villain Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Science Stalker
Primary Power Set: Ice Melee
Secondary Power Set: Ice Armor
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(37), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(17)
Level 1: Hide -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 2: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(21), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(23), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFrt-Def(25), RedFrt-EndRdx(36)
Level 4: Hoarfrost -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(5), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(5), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(15), Prv-Heal/Rchg(17), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(19)
Level 6: Assassin's Ice Sword -- SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(A), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(7), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(9), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 8: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 10: Frost -- SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(11), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(13), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(13), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19)
Level 12: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(50)
Level 14: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 16: Chilling Embrace -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 18: Ice Patch -- SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(A)
Level 20: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(21)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Freezing Touch -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(27), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Hct-Acc/Rchg(29), UnbCns-Dam%(31)
Level 28: Glacial Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(42), RedFrt-Def(42), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(43), RedFrt-EndRdx(43), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 30: Tough -- Ags-Psi/Status(A), Ags-ResDam(31), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(31), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(34), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(36), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 32: Frozen Aura -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Acc/Rchg(34), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(34)
Level 35: Energy Absorption -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(36)
Level 38: Icy Bastion -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(39), Ags-ResDam(39), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(39), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(40), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(46)
Level 44: Dark Blast -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(46)
Level 47: Moonbeam -- StnoftheM-Dam%(A), StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(48), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(48), StnoftheM-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(48), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Apc-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- Rct-ResDam%(A)
Level 1: Assassination 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(3), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(3)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Radial Superior Ally 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
------------

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Can I say welcome to the minority of stalker sets....You made a wide choice friend. I'll post my build from my home computer later this evening.

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Bear in mind Ice USED to be nearly a fully defense-based set. That was the reason that before I7 it was considered a joke. Today, the only people who consider it a joke are the ones who have never played or teamed with one.

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Ice Armor is quite serviceable on Stalkers, and I have a Ice/Ice one I've played around with.  It felt good and Freezing Touch is one of the highest DPA attacks in the entire game, and can hold two purple damage procs (Hecatomb and the Hold one), making it hit fairly hard.

 

I did end up shelving it, however, as Ice Melee's Assassin Strike roughly shares the same "sword stab" animation with BS and Katana, and they are the slowest animating Quick-Strikes out of any Stalker set; I felt a little disjoint between being able to Quick-Strike and follow-up with another attack that I don't feel with Psi, Kin, or Savage.  That's just my opinion, though.  

 

Also, if you want to play a defensive set that feels roughly similar, but a little different, try Invuln on Stalkers. It's pretty great.

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