Defender Super Team

[scarhead]

I'm having a great time being back in CoV. Much of my legacy Coalition has returned and we are creating teams and doing Strike Forces and such. I remember reading about all defender super teams in the past, and the idea came up tonight for a Themed Team made of the coalition members. We have at least 6 people who play regularly, and more who play sometimes.

 

Leaving aside the themes, unless you have some suggestions, I was trying to wrap my mind around what would be a great synergistic build of 6-8 defenders. Goals are maxing defense and resistance, for buffs, along with +recovery and +regen, and -resist and -regen for debuffs. I came up with Sonic (x2), Thermal, Kin, Cold, and Dark. We already have a Fire/Kin Corruptor, and I thought that would be ok, and we have a Plant/Dark Controller, which I also thought would be ok, so long as the other 4-6 are defenders.

 

We could go 2 sonic/sonic, a thermal/beam, and a cold/ice, with whatever for the remaining 2.

 

With everyone running full leadership pool, we should be at defense softcap from /dark controller and Cold/ defender.

 

My question is, am I on the right track with these combos? Am I missing something? What would be good combos for the last 2? Should I modify anything?

 

I have played almost exclusively brutes, so this would be a big change for me and I'm not familiar at all with the ins and outs of defender play, but I'm interested in finding out.

 

Thanks.

[KaizenSoze]

A Nature and/or Rad would be a good selection for your last two. Both provide good buffs/debuffs.

 

You should also consider Storm for more damage. See the Storm thread in this forum. Storm has the highest potential damage for defenders.

[Ankhammon]

Yeah, the Repeat Offender SG was awesome. 

 

You really can't go wrong with your choices because of the magic of buff/debuffs. I would suggest keeping the Sonic Resonance down to 2 max and only if you guys aren't taking any shields since One can produce up to ~54% resist to all but psy. Basically, if you have two you will be capped without epic shields. 

 

for your last two spots (and my 2 cents worth):

Maybe a time (who loves being in melee) to anchor like the sonic -res toggles. Time can also add to your D to bring it to ridiculous levels for post 50 stuff (no -def worries on your team) 

Maybe a Rad for the last spot so they can bring the -regen and AM. 

 

I would also say Dual Pistols for the love of all that's -Dam worthy... but that's only if you want to break the Resistance cap instead of bending it like you would be now.

[modest]

I think that you're drastically underestimating defenders. You also seem to be overvaluing buffs, and undervaluing debuffs. The beauty of a full defender team lies in the debuffs, not the buffs. It's easy to get to the defense and resistance cap. It's a little more challenging to get to the damage cap, but with 8 defenders you'll get there. At that point, debuffs add a significantly greater value to the team.

 

If you want a silly team that can clear all content with ease, a full team of Rad/Sonic Defenders or Fire/Rad Corruptors can handle everything in the game.

 

If your defenders are at level 50+ with IOs, then a single Time/, Traps/, or Cold/ defender will be able to cap your team's defenses. Additionally, if each Defender and Corruptor on the team has Maneuvers, then that will add between 30-40 defense to the team. Your defenses will be capped easily. Storm's Steamy Mist and Dark's Shadow Fall will also add defense.

 

A single Sonic/ defender will bring you to the resistance cap. If they somehow fall short, then your Dark/, Cold/, Kinetics/, Thermal/, and Storm/ toons will close any holes in your resistances. There's no need to double up on Sonic/ defenders.

 

As I said, I recommend that you focus on debuffs, I recommend that you have at least one Cold Domination and one Radiation Emission toon. Because Res and regen debuffs stack, additional Dark Miasma, Cold Domination, Storm, or Radiation Emission toons will always be a benefit to your team.

 

If you're on Indomitable, then I would be happy to join your Strike Force runs with my defender.

[Hjarki]

I'd go with Storm (x4), Time (x2), Thermal (x2) for your team. It covers all the key points: status protection, soft-capped defenses, hard-capped resists, healing, -resist debuffing, recharge buffing, endurance management.

 

Storm is there because it brings both the best control and the best damage. You'd want as many as possible.

 

Time has solid -resist debuffing and provides the best recharge buff.

 

Thermal is there because it's the best option that covers full status protection and its resist buffs complement Time's defense buffs.

[scarhead]

It is entirely possible that I'm underestimating defenders. One of my concerns is that teams don't always stay together. Sure, when we're all in range, maneuvers and resist toggles will get everyone capped, but I wanted to make sure the Sonic/ defender was able to get their resistance capped as well.

 

Anyways, after reading the responses and thinking about it some more, I think the play might be to have the 6 mains toons use Rad, Cold, Dark, Thermal (all with good debuffs), kin, and sonic (with good buffs). Another two can be whatever, we should be rolling with that.

 

Also, I'm not sure how much it matters that the AT is a defender for some of the sets, such as Kin and Dark. We'll probably go with the existing Fire/Kin Cor and Plant/Dark 'Troller. Maybe go Corrupter for Ice/Cold or Water/Cold as well. Seems like the Thermal and Sonic should definitely be defender, maybe the Rad as well, although looking at the numbers they don't seem very different between def and cor.

 

I appreciate all the responses and welcome more.

[modest]

scarhead, I think that you're on the right track to making a really fun team.

 

At 50, each of your defenders will have their ranged defense soft capped and their smashing and lethal resistances soft capped. The corruptors and controllers will have ranged defenses capped and smashing/lethal resistances anywhere from 40-65 depending on the secondary. As such, the sonic defender will be helpful, but not essential to the team. Two sonic defenders will be completely unnecessary.

 

The cold, Dark, Kin, and Thermal players will also buff your team resistances. You'll easily pass soft caps with them.

 

Dark is actually best on a controller, so you've got a good setup there. Kinetics works equally well on a corruptor or defender. A fire/kin corruptor is a great option. Cold and Sonic work best on a defender, but cold can be used on a corruptor. Thermal is largely unnecessary and doesn't add much to the team. It's a good set, but it doesn't do as much to benefit your team as the other sets. Rad is amazing on a defender and great on a corruptor. Fire/Rad is a great option for a corruptor.

[scarhead]

I thought Thermal would be a good add, not only for the extra resist buffs and forge, but for the debuffs of Heat Exhaustion and Melt Armor. Are you suggesting that the extra resist is not needed and the debuffs aren't up enough? They do have long recharge times, but with enough recharge, which will probably be there, could be up every other spawn or so.

[modest]

Thermal's debuffs aren't bad, they're just not as good as the alternatives.

 

Melt Armor debuffs defenses by 25% and resistances by 30%, but it has a recharge of 150 seconds and won't be up for every fight. Heat exhaustion debuffs regen by 500%, recovery by 200%, and damage by ~62%, but it also has a 120 second recharge.

 

In comparison, Radiation's toggle debuffs recharge in 8 seconds, and lingering radiation recharges in 90 seconds and lasts for 30 seconds. That 90 second recharge means that you can keep it permanently up.

 

Cold's sleet power debuffs defenses and resistances by 30%, lasts 30 seconds, and recharges in 60 seconds. As a result, it's very easy to keep sleet up on every group. Benumb is slightly harder, but doable. Infrigidate debuffs 31% of defenses, 37% of damage, 87% of recharge, and 87% of movement speed, and it recharges in 15 seconds.

 

Dark's Howling Twilight debuffs regen by 500%, recharge by 62%, and movement speed by 62%. It also lasts for 90 seconds and has a recharge of 180s, so you can have it up permanently. Darkest Night offers a 37% damage debuff that recharges in 10 seconds, and tar patch debuffs all resistances by 30%, lasts for 45 seconds, and recharges in 90 seconds - it also is easy to keep permanent.

 

Sonic debuffs resistances more effectively than any other set. Sonic Siphon and Disruption Field are up for every group, debuff 30% each, and stack.

 

Storm's freezing rain can be cast on every group, and it debuffs defense by 30% and resistances by 35%. It also lowers recharge by 50%, movement speed by 60-70%, and slows. Tornados also debuff defense, and they can stack.

[Hjarki]

3 hours ago, modest said:

Thermal's debuffs aren't bad, they're just not as good as the alternatives.

 

Melt Armor debuffs defenses by 25% and resistances by 30%, but it has a recharge of 150 seconds and won't be up for every fight. Heat exhaustion debuffs regen by 500%, recovery by 200%, and damage by ~62%, but it also has a 120 second recharge.

 

In comparison, Radiation's toggle debuffs recharge in 8 seconds, and lingering radiation recharges in 90 seconds and lasts for 30 seconds. That 90 second recharge means that you can keep it permanently up.

 

Cold's sleet power debuffs defenses and resistances by 30%, lasts 30 seconds, and recharges in 60 seconds. As a result, it's very easy to keep sleet up on every group. Benumb is slightly harder, but doable. Infrigidate debuffs 31% of defenses, 37% of damage, 87% of recharge, and 87% of movement speed, and it recharges in 15 seconds.

 

Dark's Howling Twilight debuffs regen by 500%, recharge by 62%, and movement speed by 62%. It also lasts for 90 seconds and has a recharge of 180s, so you can have it up permanently. Darkest Night offers a 37% damage debuff that recharges in 10 seconds, and tar patch debuffs all resistances by 30%, lasts for 45 seconds, and recharges in 90 seconds - it also is easy to keep permanent.

 

Sonic debuffs resistances more effectively than any other set. Sonic Siphon and Disruption Field are up for every group, debuff 30% each, and stack.

 

Storm's freezing rain can be cast on every group, and it debuffs defense by 30% and resistances by 35%. It also lowers recharge by 50%, movement speed by 60-70%, and slows. Tornados also debuff defense, and they can stack.

Melt Armor and Slowed Response are the best of the AE -resist debuffs since they can slot near-auto proc Achilles' Heel to instantly deliver -50% resist. However, Melt Armor is inferior to Slowed Response due to the longer recharge and higher recharge:duration ratio. Click -resist debuffs are also functionally the best sort for delivering AE -resist debuffing because you can debuff the entire spawn without scattering it (or worrying about it scattering later).

 

Heat Exhaustion and Lingering Radiation are the best -regen debuffs since they have a 3:1 recharge:duration ratio (and thus higher uptime) while alternatives like Benumb have a 4:1 (or worse) recharge:duration ratio.

 

So Thermal's debuffs are actually quite strong.

 

Radiation's toggle debuffs are useful early on, but fairly weak in the late game. The only real value they have is Enervating Field's -resist component - and Enervating Field is one of the weakest AE -resist debuffs because it can neither benefit from stacking or gain much advantage from procs. The hit/defense/damage components simply get resisted too much or are superfluous (you're hitting enemies 95% of the time when they're not MoG'd anyway).

 

Cold's Sleet is an inferior version of Storm's Freezing Rain. Both are problematic due to the scatter/running problem. If you can solve that in some fashion, Freezing Rain is one of the strongest debuffs in the game since it can be stacked up to 2.5 times and has the largest single AE -resist debuff.

 

Contrary to what the character builder says, the debuff components of Howling Twilight only last 30 secs (the control components only last 15 sec, but can be extended with enhancements). This gives it a 6:1 recharge:duration ratio and it's impossible to make 100% uptime. This means that Dark is roughly on par with a set like Time Manipulation for -regen debuffing. Tar Patch can be made permanent but isn't as good as the -resist rains or the click debuffs (for reasons discussed above).

 

Sonic has a single target -resist debuff and an ally field debuff. The ally field debuff is one of the most convenient mechanisms - if you've got the tank to throw it on - but it has the same problem that Radiation's -resist debuff (no useful procs, no self-stacking). In any case, Sonic is middle-of-the-road at AE debuffing and probably 4th or 5th on single target -resist debuffing.

 

Poison has two stacking -resist debuffs than can yield -65% resist on a single target (or a very tightly packed group of enemies). However, it requires the player be in close range to use the second (smaller) debuff.

 

Pain Domination has a slightly worse version of Melt Armor that's also PBAoE.

 

Overall, I'd say:

• Thermal does what Pain and Poison do, but better.
• Storm does what Cold does, but better
• Time does what Radiation does, but better

Dark and Sonic are two ends of the same stick. Dark isn't particularly good at anything it does, but it does so much that the aggregate makes up for the individual weakness of the powers. In contrast, Sonic isn't particularly good at anything it does - but it does so little that it's rarely worth playing the set.

 

Traps is extremely hard to make effective in a group setting, so it's customarily left out of these discussions. Trick Arrow tends to be numerically weaker than it should be, so it also gets omitted.

 

 

[modest]

2 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

Melt Armor and Slowed Response are the best of the AE -resist debuffs since they can slot near-auto proc Achilles' Heel to instantly deliver -50% resist. However, Melt Armor is inferior to Slowed Response due to the longer recharge and higher recharge:duration ratio. Click -resist debuffs are also functionally the best sort for delivering AE -resist debuffing because you can debuff the entire spawn without scattering it (or worrying about it scattering later).

 

Heat Exhaustion and Lingering Radiation are the best -regen debuffs since they have a 3:1 recharge:duration ratio (and thus higher uptime) while alternatives like Benumb have a 4:1 (or worse) recharge:duration ratio.

 

So Thermal's debuffs are actually quite strong.

 

Radiation's toggle debuffs are useful early on, but fairly weak in the late game. The only real value they have is Enervating Field's -resist component - and Enervating Field is one of the weakest AE -resist debuffs because it can neither benefit from stacking or gain much advantage from procs. The hit/defense/damage components simply get resisted too much or are superfluous (you're hitting enemies 95% of the time when they're not MoG'd anyway).

 

Cold's Sleet is an inferior version of Storm's Freezing Rain. Both are problematic due to the scatter/running problem. If you can solve that in some fashion, Freezing Rain is one of the strongest debuffs in the game since it can be stacked up to 2.5 times and has the largest single AE -resist debuff.

 

Contrary to what the character builder says, the debuff components of Howling Twilight only last 30 secs (the control components only last 15 sec, but can be extended with enhancements). This gives it a 6:1 recharge:duration ratio and it's impossible to make 100% uptime. This means that Dark is roughly on par with a set like Time Manipulation for -regen debuffing. Tar Patch can be made permanent but isn't as good as the -resist rains or the click debuffs (for reasons discussed above).

 

Sonic has a single target -resist debuff and an ally field debuff. The ally field debuff is one of the most convenient mechanisms - if you've got the tank to throw it on - but it has the same problem that Radiation's -resist debuff (no useful procs, no self-stacking). In any case, Sonic is middle-of-the-road at AE debuffing and probably 4th or 5th on single target -resist debuffing.

 

Poison has two stacking -resist debuffs than can yield -65% resist on a single target (or a very tightly packed group of enemies). However, it requires the player be in close range to use the second (smaller) debuff.

 

Pain Domination has a slightly worse version of Melt Armor that's also PBAoE.

 

Overall, I'd say:

• Thermal does what Pain and Poison do, but better.
• Storm does what Cold does, but better
• Time does what Radiation does, but better

Dark and Sonic are two ends of the same stick. Dark isn't particularly good at anything it does, but it does so much that the aggregate makes up for the individual weakness of the powers. In contrast, Sonic isn't particularly good at anything it does - but it does so little that it's rarely worth playing the set.

 

Traps is extremely hard to make effective in a group setting, so it's customarily left out of these discussions. Trick Arrow tends to be numerically weaker than it should be, so it also gets omitted.

 

 

This is interesting information, but I strongly disagree with your conclusions.

 

Radiation's debuff package is one of the best in the game. They're certainly not weak in end game content. Rad's debuff values are competitive with every other debuff set. If you think that Rad's debuffs are weak in the end game, then you're effectively arguing that all debuff sets are weak at the end game. I can not agree with that.

 

It is an advantage that Enervating Field is a toggle, not a weakness. Strong enemies can walk out of the location AOE -res debuffs such as Tar Patch, Freezing Rain, and Sleet. Enemies cannot avoid Enervating Field because it is anchored to them. It is also a significant advantage that it does not need to be reapplied. Once you apply the toggle(s), you can then focus on damage dealing skills.

 

I agree that Freezing Rain is fantastic, but as you said, enemies can simply walk out of it. This makes it ineffective against elite bosses, AVs, etc.

 

Storm does not "do what Cold does, but better". I generally like the Storm set better than the Cold set, but Storm completely lacks a -Regeneration power. That is a significant absence.

 

Time does not compete with Radiation. They fill different niches. I request that you expand upon that thought so that I can understand where you're coming from. Time has very minimal -Regen, a worse version of Freezing Rain/Sleet (longer recharge time, lower debuff values, very low accuracy, no secondary effects), and a PBAoE toggle that debuffs minimal damage and ToHit.

 

I disagree with your assessment of Sonic and Dark. I agree that Poison is not a great set and isn't competitive with any of the other sets discussed.

[Hjarki]

3 hours ago, modest said:

Radiation's debuff package is one of the best in the game. They're certainly not weak in end game content. Rad's debuff values are competitive with every other debuff set. If you think that Rad's debuffs are weak in the end game, then you're effectively arguing that all debuff sets are weak at the end game. I can not agree with that.

 

It is an advantage that Enervating Field is a toggle, not a weakness. Strong enemies can walk out of the location AOE -res debuffs such as Tar Patch, Freezing Rain, and Sleet. Enemies cannot avoid Enervating Field because it is anchored to them. It is also a significant advantage that it does not need to be reapplied. Once you apply the toggle(s), you can then focus on damage dealing skills.

 

I agree that Freezing Rain is fantastic, but as you said, enemies can simply walk out of it. This makes it ineffective against elite bosses, AVs, etc.

 

Storm does not "do what Cold does, but better". I generally like the Storm set better than the Cold set, but Storm completely lacks a -Regeneration power. That is a significant absence.

 

Time does not compete with Radiation. They fill different niches. I request that you expand upon that thought so that I can understand where you're coming from. Time has very minimal -Regen, a worse version of Freezing Rain/Sleet (longer recharge time, lower debuff values, very low accuracy, no secondary effects), and a PBAoE toggle that debuffs minimal damage and ToHit.

 

I disagree with your assessment of Sonic and Dark. I agree that Poison is not a great set and isn't competitive with any of the other sets discussed.

To Hit, -damage and -defense debuffs aren't all that useful. End game players are also hit/defense capped and -damage tends to be heavily resisted on any enemy that you're worried about.

 

-resist debuffs are useful, but Radiation's toggle is stuck at 30%. In contrast, the click debuffs can take Achilles' Heel for an extra 20% and the field debuffs can layer on top of one another for multiplicative effect. As a result, when you look at total -resist debuffing, Radiation is one of the weakest sets (amongst those that can debuff -resist at all). So while toggles are good for AV/GM, the penalty you suffer for that convenience is prohibitive. In terms of Freezing Rain/Sleet, both Immobilize and tanks prevent this from occurring.

 

-recharge is mostly irrelevant outside of PvP. On non-AV/GM, it doesn't matter since the target is unlikely to cycle their attacks anyway. On AV/GM, it's resisted into meaningless. -speed is somewhat useful on a click debuff, but it's not a particularly rarefied ability. Radiation's -regen is the best (alongside Thermal's).

 

In terms of lack of (significant) -regen on Time and Storm, I thought the same thing at one point. However, -regen isn't very meaningful outside of solo because fights don't last long enough. For Storm, it isn't even meaningful solo since the damage disparity between Storm and Cold swamps the benefit of -regen - take a look at Rikti Pylon tests.

 

Vis-a-vis Time vs. Radiation, they've both got self-heals, a passel of debuffs, and self-affecting recharge. However, Time just does it better:

• Farsight vs. Accelerate Metablism. Of these two defensive powers, Farsight is by far the superior, allowing easy soft-capping of defenses.
• Chrono Shift vs. Accelerate Metabolism. Chrono Shift is +50%, AM is +30%.
• Distortion FIeld vs. Lingering Radiation. The proc-friendly Distortion FIeld is an AE nuke all its own that benefits from - but doesn't need - recharge while the recharge-intensive Lingering Radiation isn't up enough to be a convenient source of -speed.
• Slowed Response vs. Enervating Field. As I noted before, being able to slot Achilles' Heel (and damage procs if desired) effectively makes Slowed Response a much better -resist debuff for general use - it routinely provides more damage amplification against crowds. Against a single target, they're more comparable - and neither is even close to the layered fields approach.
• Temporal Mending vs. Radiant Aura. Temporal Mending is a larger heal and Temporal Selection allows using it as an effective single target heal (which Radiant Aura is not).

My assessment of Sonic is based on the fact that it really only does two things: increase resists and debuff -resist but it does both of those at a merely adequate level rather than the exceptional level that would be required to justify the complete absence of other useful features.

 

In terms of Dark:

• Twilight Grasp. Target heals have much weaker slotting options and carry the risk of missing. With Transfusion, that's somewhat counterbalanced by the fact that you've got an AE heal at the target. But even Grasp's large size can't compensate for the fact that 99% of the time you'd prefer to have something like Temporal Mending.
• Tar Patch. This is a perfectly adequate power. However, it's almost strictly worse than Sleet/Freezing Rain due to the longer recharge and lack of slotting options.
• Darkest Night. I've already discussed above about why these sorts of debuffs just aren't very useful in endgame.
• Howling Twilight. I really want to like this power. But it mainly just ends up being a mule. The recharge is simply too long compared to the duration of its effects to make it all that useful. The one time it works as a mass rez you'll always remember - but you'll never remember the countless thousands of other times where you had no use for a mass rez.
• Shadow Fall. This is inarguably a great power. But I'd trade it for Steamy Mist/Arctic Fog in a second because Negative/Psionic just aren't as common (or useful) as Fire/Cold. The value of a resist is related to how much you already have. Taking someone from 70% to 90% chops damage in a third. Taking someone from 0% to 30% merely cuts it down by 30%. Against Negative/Psionic, players tend to be in feast-or-famine mode. Those who are good against it tend to have it beyond cap, while those who are bad at it tend to have virtually none. In contrast, Fire/Cold is slathered across every purple set so everyone tends to have fairly decent values there if they care at all.
• Fearsome Stare. It's been argued that this is a control power just as strong as a Controller gets. While technically true, I also find it useless. Actual control powers tend to be counter-productive in endgame because they prevent melee from collapsing spawns into a small area - that's why Controllers get told not to use their AE Immobilize. Basically, their pathetic damage AE Immobilize ends up preventing massive damage PBAoEs from the melee. Fear isn't quite as bad, but it has a similar impact. Players simply don't need these kinds of effects to protect themselves.
• Petrifying Gaze. A relatively poor single target Hold.
• Black Hole. No one ever takes this power.
• Dark Servant. I've never seen this usefully deployed outside of solo. Mostly, it's just a mule for one of the many, many sets it can slot. Dark's two biggest guns - Tar Patch and Shadow Fall - also happen to be powers Dark Servant doesn't get. So it mainly sits around randomly (and slowly) throwing powers that you probably wouldn't throw if you had them yourself.

Now, if you replace Fearsome Stare and Petrifying Gaze with Fade and Soul Absorption, you've got a top notch set because you've got such an enormous selection of B+ abilities that you can get around the fact that Dark isn't A+ at anything.

 

RIght now, I'd say the breakdown goes:

1. Darkness Affinity, Storm Summoning, Time Manipulation. Almost every 'power build' comes from these three sets. While you can make perfectly adequate builds from other sets, these are the ones that really go a step beyond.
2. Cold Domination, Dark Miasma, Kinetics, Nature Affinity, Radiation Emission, Thermal. These are perfectly adequate sets that just lack the perfect storm of abilities of the tier one sets above.
3. Empathy, Force Field, Pain, Poison, Sonic, Traps, Trick Arrow. These are all sets that are relegated to fairly narrow roles rather than leading to a broadly useful hero. You can find niche uses for them, but they're probably not sets you want to play all the way through to 50 and beyond.

 

[mousestalker]

I strongly disagree with your evaluation of Dark. One example will serve:

 

Pet

rifying Gaze. A relatively poor single target Hold.

 

and

 

Dark Servant. I've never seen this usefully deployed outside of solo. Mostly, it's just a mule for one of the many, many sets it can slot. Dark's two biggest guns - Tar Patch and Shadow Fall - also happen to be powers Dark Servant doesn't get. So it mainly sits around randomly (and slowly) throwing powers that you probably wouldn't throw if you had them yourself.

 

Cast Fluffy to appear at the feet of the big bad. Cast Petrifying Gaze. You now have a two stack hold. One bad guy held until he can be dealt with. My knock against Petrifying Gaze isn't the hold, it's that, unlike just about every other Dark power, it doesn't do anything else.

 

Everything Fluffy does stacks with what you do. And if all else fails, he is a secondary aggro magnet. If my party is face rolling through the minions then I do not bother casting him. But for actual challenges, Fluffy gets deployed. Similarly, Howling Twilight is always useful against the AV at the end of the mission. And I always use it against the AV. The rez is just a nice bonus.

 

Dark is a synergistic power set. You should not evaluate each power on its own but must consider them in the context of a series of uses.

 

There are other examples, but in my opinion, Dark holds up pretty well when compared to other Defender primaries. My problem is not Dark vs. other primaries but that Defenders really are not needed any more. The players are so much more powerful than the content at Incarnate levels that most encounters are trivial so long as everyone knows how to play their role. But that's a rant for another day...  😄

 

 

[scarhead]

So, for better or worse, my peeps have decided on the following:

Controller Plant/Dark

Defender Sonic/Sonic

Defender Rad/Archery

Corruptor Fire/Kin

Corruptor Ice/Cold

Corruptor Beam/Thermal

 

So, this is not strictly a defender post anymore, but I would welcome advice on what powers to definitely take and which are skippable. We're looking at taking Maneuvers, Assault, and Tactics for all of the toons. We will be doing Cap SF and up. Most of these toons are already in the 30-50 range, so we just need builds, IO's, and then take it to work.

 

Thanks for all your advice and suggestions so far.

[Darkir]

With a /kin I dont think you'll need assault, but I suppose you can use it to still be at cap against a single AV. You can also take vengeance for the 7.5% lotg recharge. I have a build up in the corruptor forums for a fire/kin corruptor, feel free to check it out. When making a build decide if you are better suited to cap s/l/e or pos def, many powersets that have a +def power (like shadowfall from /dark) are better suited to go pos def, but not always. You also can go for proc builds, especially with a /kin buffing everyones dmg and tactics putting your tohit through the roof.

[Rylas]

A fun, theme-oriented Defender team could be elementals. 

 

2 Cold/Ice (or water blast), 2 Fire/Fire, 2 Storm/Elec and 2 Nature/?. Plenty of debuffs, buffs and heals to go around. 

[Alty]

On 8/12/2019 at 10:17 AM, Ankhammon said:

Yeah, the Repeat Offender SG was awesome

Was?... We're here.😉 We're also more than one SG. RO was born in the Defender section of the official forums. 

 

I see the OP mixed in Corruptors and Controllers.. Awww should have gone with all Defenders just to get those sweet buffs/debuffs early. 

 

Also typically a super team starts as lowbies together so they learn team tactics and synergies. That's usually the fun part. 😊

 

 

[Ankhammon]

12 hours ago, Alty said:

Was?... We're here.😉 We're also more than one SG. RO was born in the Defender section of the official forums. 

 

We are honored by your presence.  The great ones are here! 

 

 

😄

[Without_Pause]

On 8/14/2019 at 8:21 PM, scarhead said:

So, for better or worse, my peeps have decided on the following:

Controller Plant/Dark

Defender Sonic/Sonic

Defender Rad/Archery

Corruptor Fire/Kin

Corruptor Ice/Cold

Corruptor Beam/Thermal

 

So, this is not strictly a defender post anymore, but I would welcome advice on what powers to definitely take and which are skippable. We're looking at taking Maneuvers, Assault, and Tactics for all of the toons. We will be doing Cap SF and up. Most of these toons are already in the 30-50 range, so we just need builds, IO's, and then take it to work.

 

Thanks for all your advice and suggestions so far.

 I say this as someone who virtually ODed on Kin, you want a Time in there somewhere and I would likely sub out the Kin. Subbing out Rad might work as well since the animation times on Rad might be an issue on a buzzsaw team.

[Ankhammon]

On 8/13/2019 at 12:01 AM, Hjarki said:

Black Hole. No one ever takes this power.

I'll have you know I took that power and used it exactly a couple times. The only real use was in a 5 on 5 team pvp match. I used a single TO acc in it and when I popped it half the team went intang and the other half was fodder for us. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

and I think that's the only reason to take it. 😄

[Riverdusk]

Nice analysis. Honestly though you could probably throw dice to randomly pick defender powersets, throw 8 of them together, and buzzsaw anything.  

[hastened]

 I'll just note that sonic/ sonic is deceptively strong as a debuffer,  as by far the most relevant debuff on a team like this is -res.  They have the only 0 cast time always on resist debuff other than poison and are competitive for top of the line single target -res.  Groups are going to vaporize under this much buffing/debuffing,  and time spent activation long duration -res attacks isn't spent blowing them up.

 

Capping everyone's resists even when separated is just a side benefit. 

[Doomguide2005]

On 8/21/2019 at 7:57 PM, Ankhammon said:

We are honored by your presence.  The great ones are here! 

 

 

😄

Hey Alty, Ankhammon and RO

 

Not sure my face can handle this grin I just broke into finding all this and RO 

 

Doomguide

 

PS: And Riverdusk pretty much has it right.  8 Defenders of any stripe are going to liquidate anything in their path, hard to go wrong.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Doomguide2005
Added PS

[oedipus_tex]

If I was trying to design this with near-ideal stats, I think it would be impossible to go wrong with:

 

1 Kinetics

1 Cold Domination

1 Time

2 Thermal

2 Storm

1 Nature

 

A couple of team members should plan to take the Manuevers skill from the leadership pool.

 

 

That would give you:

 - Three sources of Sleet / Freezing Rain, which pack -30%/-35% resistance per cast

- Two sources of Melt Armor (Thermal)

- Fulcrum Shift (Kin) to maximize damage

 - +100% Recharge from Time/Kinetics

- Soft capped defenses from Cold shields + Arctic Fog + Steamy Mist + Manuevers

- ~60% resistance to all damage sources (Thermal)

- Three sources of Resurrection (Thermal, Nature)

- Four sources of AoE healing (thermal, kinetics, nature)

- Three very strong sources of -Regen (Cold, x2 Thermal)

- Lots of soft control from the two Stormers

- Good bonus damage even when the Kin isn't Fulcrum Shifting (Nature)

 

 

 

This is an idealistic take on it. You could probably combine any 8 Defender sets and make a good team.

[Ankhammon]

Tex,

Let's test this theory of yours that any 8 Def team will be good. Let us test if, indeed, they rock!

 

8 Poison Defender

By level 2: 320% -Res, 300% -Def, 300% -Damage, 150% -tohit and 596% Status Resistances (give or take)

By level 4: add in 650% -Speed and -Rech

 

So, by level 4 this team only has their Tier 1 blast available and so they are doing up to 170 or so damage per blast.

 

I think you might be on to something here.

 

But I'm sure you are running against debuff caps somewhere so... doom doom doom. I'll just roll another brute. 🙂

 

 

But what if you took 8 TA chars...

EDIT: Oh gawd, imagine 8 PGA with a very fast ticking mag 2 sleep. nothing would move and add in 250% -Dam with just that one power.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Ankhammon