Are Blaster attack damage procs worth it?

[SmalltalkJava]

I’ve never played a blaster past level 15.  So excuse newbieness.  However, with defenders and controllers now talking about using procs to get around their low damage caps, it got me thinking.     Let’s take Dark blast for example which can be proc’d out fairly well from my understanding.   Is it mathematically usefully to go heavy on procs for a blaster since their damage cap is so much higher?  

[Bopper]

Mathematically, it's less valuable as a proc will have much less added damage percentage than it would on a Defender or Controller. Also, Blasters are likely more reliant on chasing set bonuses for survivability, which is not as much of an issue for Defenders/Controllers. In the end, it can add value in certain situations, but I doubt I'll see a proc monster Blaster that is a game changer (although I'd love to see it if someone makes it happen).

[MunkiLord]

I haven't done any math to back it up, but I only add damage procs if my enhanced damage is high and I can use it for a set bonus, or I have an extra slot or two to spare somewhere. But as Bopper mentioned I prioritize survivability, so an extra slots are in very short supply.

[Frosticus]

4 hours ago, Bopper said:

Mathematically, it's less valuable as a proc will have much less added damage percentage than it would on a Defender or Controller. Also, Blasters are likely more reliant on chasing set bonuses for survivability, which is not as much of an issue for Defenders/Controllers. In the end, it can add value in certain situations, but I doubt I'll see a proc monster Blaster that is a game changer (although I'd love to see it if someone makes it happen).

I built a rad/electric on test with this intention. only uses heavily proc'd snipe (w/achiles) from the primary and aim.

And then proc'd out every melee attack in elec (minus thunderstrike)  as they all have great dpa and a damage aura. 

 

It was less impressive than I'd hoped. 500+ dps vs pylon (when I survived) sounds impressive but there are plenty of scrappers pulling higher single target damage let alone how much tougher they are. 

[Coyote]

To echo some of the points made...

Procs will help Blaster damage just like they help the lower-damage ATs, but because Blasters start off at higher damage, the procs won't help AS MUCH.

Other ATs have more defensive options, and thus can more easily afford to proc out a ranged attack instead of going with 6xThunderstrike for the Ranged Defense, and still have good survivability. A Blaster who chases proc damage will lose a higher % of their defensive ability since they depend more on set bonuses, while at the same time getting a lower % increase of the damage that they deal.

 

I have a few Blaster builds that use Procs... but I think they're all using procs on only one attack, that way I only give up one set bonus.

[TheAdjustor]

Well taking an example from Archery

Ranged Shot,  3 level 50 damage IOs :  272 damage,  (12 second base recharge time)

Ranged Shot  2 level 50 damage IOs and Gladiators Javelin Chance of Toxic,  Apocalypse Chance of Negative,  Sting of the Manticore Chance of Toxic,  Blaster's Wrath Chance of fire:  610 damage

 

272 or 610 is it significant ?

 

Or another one from  Ice Blast Freeze Ray VS the old king of Ice Blast, Bitter Ice Blast

Bitter Ice Blast: with 3 Damage IOs : 283 damage 215 DPA

Freeze Ray: 5 procs 1 Acc/Dam  approximately 600 damage and 500 DPA

 

 

Is it worth it ? To me it certainly seems not only worth it but so important as too completely overturn how you play the character.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by TheAdjustor

[MunkiLord]

What are the chances of all those procs firing though? Will it average out to be more or less damage?

[blayzemaster]

Also, with that many procs you have no accuracy, endurance or recharge.

 

The procs are at 3 times a minute, and the chance of each going off is capped at 90%. You won't get that chance though with a 12 second recharge.

 

You're unlikely to get all going off each time, and without set bonuses you won't have the accuracy to forgo accuracy enhancements. If you miss, no damage or procs.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by blayzemaster

[Coyote]

10 hours ago, TheAdjustor said:

Is it worth it ? To me it certainly seems not only worth it but so important as too completely overturn how you play the character.

 

I think that you are having a slightly different discussion than the OP meant to have. You see, you are talking about a single attack... I agree that it's possible to have an attack loaded with procs, that greatly improves it. But the discussion is based on the "Proc Monsters" in the Defenders (and to a lesser extent in the Controllers) Forum, which are characters LOADED with procs, who basically depend on multiple procs in every attack in order to improve their damage.

 

Defenders and Controllers can do this for several reasons.

1: Defense. My Dark/Dark Controller is soft-capped in defense BEFORE the -ToHit debuffs go out, and she has about 5 attacks slotted with procs. Blasters can't slot 5 attacks with procs AND soft-cap defenses.

2: Offense. Everywhere you stick a proc in a Controller's attacks, and almost everywhere in a Defender, you get more damage per slot, because their attacks are so low in damage. Blasters can only do this in a few attacks, OR if you ignore Recharge and Accuracy slotting, to basically try to get to use all 6 slots for improving damage. So they face a trade-off because their attacks do enough damage that you DO want to slot their damage up pretty high before looking at procs, while Controller attacks are far better with 4 Procs and 20% damage slotting, than with 95% damage slotting.

 

So, in short, slotting a single Blaster attack with as many procs as you can, makes sense. Especially since if you do this, then you sacrifice only one set bonus in order to get 2-3 Purple damage IOs, which is totally worth it. The problems come in when you say to proc up EVERY attack, which is the concept of a "Proc Monster" character. One attack... fine. Every attack... problems with Defense, problems hitting (Defenders and Controllers who do this usually have a strong -Def power like Freezing Rain or Radiation Infection to help them hit... although, /Devices Blasters can get away with less Accuracy slotting).

[TheAdjustor]

50 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

What are the chances of all those procs firing though? Will it average out to be more or less damage?

The formula is recharge+cast time and those should be the expected values used there. I plopped the ranged shot example into my complete build for archery  which had 71% global accuracy , if you want more enhancement just +5 a couple of Acc/Dam/End enhancements

Edited August 16, 2019 by TheAdjustor

[TheAdjustor]

20 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

I think that you are having a slightly different discussion than the OP meant to have. You see, you are talking about a single attack... I agree that it's possible to have an attack loaded with procs, that greatly improves it. But the discussion is based on the "Proc Monsters" in the Defenders (and to a lesser extent in the Controllers) Forum, which are characters LOADED with procs, who basically depend on multiple procs in every attack in order to improve their damage.

 

Defenders and Controllers can do this for several reasons.

1: Defense. My Dark/Dark Controller is soft-capped in defense BEFORE the -ToHit debuffs go out, and she has about 5 attacks slotted with procs. Blasters can't slot 5 attacks with procs AND soft-cap defenses.

2: Offense. Everywhere you stick a proc in a Controller's attacks, and almost everywhere in a Defender, you get more damage per slot, because their attacks are so low in damage. Blasters can only do this in a few attacks, OR if you ignore Recharge and Accuracy slotting, to basically try to get to use all 6 slots for improving damage. So they face a trade-off because their attacks do enough damage that you DO want to slot their damage up pretty high before looking at procs, while Controller attacks are far better with 4 Procs and 20% damage slotting, than with 95% damage slotting.

 

So, in short, slotting a single Blaster attack with as many procs as you can, makes sense. Especially since if you do this, then you sacrifice only one set bonus in order to get 2-3 Purple damage IOs, which is totally worth it. The problems come in when you say to proc up EVERY attack, which is the concept of a "Proc Monster" character. One attack... fine. Every attack... problems with Defense, problems hitting (Defenders and Controllers who do this usually have a strong -Def power like Freezing Rain or Radiation Infection to help them hit... although, /Devices Blasters can get away with less Accuracy slotting).

I am reading this a little differently. My approach is to find one or two attacks  and make an attack chain around them and then make the rest of the build to support that chain. For instance on ice you can proc the heck out of the two holds and bitter ice blast.  Then you turn the rest of the build over to making it possible to use those three. 

 

I'll say unreservedly it's a crappy way to build a character but when you have scrappers doing 600 dps what are you going to do ? 

[Obitus]

10 hours ago, TheAdjustor said:

Well taking an example from Archery

Ranged Shot,  3 level 50 damage IOs :  272 damage,  (12 second base recharge time)

Ranged Shot  2 level 50 damage IOs and Gladiators Javelin Chance of Toxic,  Apocalypse Chance of Negative,  Sting of the Manticore Chance of Toxic,  Blaster's Wrath Chance of fire:  610 damage

Assuming that those level 50 damage IOs are boosted to +5 (to give you +95.9% in damage enhancement), then I'm getting an average damage of 542.8 on the quick-snipe version of Ranged Shot, with that enhancement scheme.  Remember that the Blaster's Wrath proc comes with 23.19% in recharge enhancement, and that the fast-snipe version of the power loses 3 seconds of activation time, which both lower the chance to proc.

 

10 hours ago, TheAdjustor said:

Or another one from  Ice Blast Freeze Ray VS the old king of Ice Blast, Bitter Ice Blast

Bitter Ice Blast: with 3 Damage IOs : 283 damage 215 DPA

Freeze Ray: 5 procs 1 Acc/Dam  approximately 600 damage and 500 DPA 

 

I presume that you mean 3 "typical" 3.5 PPM damage procs and two purple (Apocalypse and Unbreakable Constraint).  If so, then the average proc damage on Freeze Ray is 343.45, the base damage on the power is 125.1, and a +5-boosted Acc/Dam IO gives us ~33% damage enhancement - for an overall total average damage of 509.8.

 

If, on the other hand, you're talking about 2 "typical" 3.5 PPM damage procs and three purples (Apocalypse, Unbreakable Constraint, and Blaster's Wrath), then the overall average damage actually falls, odd though it may seem, to 494.9.  Why?  Because of that crucial Recharge enhancement that comes packaged with the Blaster ATO proc.

 

Anyway, I apologize for the nitpicking.  The numbers above are still hugely impressive.  To echo @Coyote, I think it's undeniable that proccing out an attack or two is absolutely 100% worth it.  The most obvious generic example for Blasters is probably Char from the Fire Epic pool; it's an ideal proc super-mule, and it's available to all Blasters.

 

There are three problems you'll run into if you try to build a Blaster around procs, though.  The first is simply that Blasters don't have a lot of defensive wiggle room; Blaster build with soft-capped DEF to a favored position/type are already very tight.  This is all the more true if you e.g. break up the Blaster's Wrath set, which has excellent boosts to global recharge and Ranged DEF as a set.

 

The second problem is the obvious complication in constructing a seamless attack chain.  Blasters are actually pretty well off here, because although they have higher base damage than other ATs, which lowers the proportional benefit of procs, Blasters also have gobs of +Recovery, so they don't have to worry as much about losing Endurance enhancement in some of their attacks.  They do still have to worry about making their strongest attacks recharge fast enough to fit into a good chain, though.  There's a natural tension between Recharge enhancement and proc chance.  Leaning on global recharge is ideal, of course, but that brings us back to problem #1 - losing set bonus opportunities by slotting procs.

 

The third problem is just a limitation of all proc builds - i.e. that there are only so many purple procs, and you can only use each of them once.  These unique procs are almost twice as strong as "typical" 3.5 PPM procs, when slotted in the average attack ((4.5 / 3.5) * (107.1 / 71.75) = 1.92), so in a sense you could say that there's a natural diminished-returns effect to any proc-heavy build.  To put it another way, the wow factor when you quote the damage on a single attack with a bunch of uniques slotted in it can be a bit misleading as to the overall effect of procs in your build.

 

You're not wrong though.  Procs under the new system are a game changer.  They force us to think about building in a new and sometimes counter-intuitive way.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Obitus
added another problem, ha

[MunkiLord]

I have an Ice/Fire Blaster that I was going to respec anyway, so I think I'm gonna test doing this with a couple attacks. With my current slotting I took down a pylon in 2:25(used lucks for defense though). I'm wondering how much time I could cut off that. Perhaps I'll also try to fit in an extra proc into Hot Feet as well.

 

edit: Is there any point to me putting a proc in Blizzard? I've read the chance for it to go off is extremely low because of the size and number of targets it can hit.

Edited August 16, 2019 by MunkiLord

[KelvinKole]

I haven't taken a super detailed look at this, but from what I've glanced I think the effectiveness of this strategy will vary based on power sets. A couple of examples of where I think it makes sense:

 

The Rad Blast nuke has comparably low damage but can accept a handful of damage procs due to its hold component. 3 procs and an assortment of acc and/or dmg and/or end should net better total damage. Other skills in rad can benefit from the defense debuff procs as well. Accuracy can always be made up via incarnates. 

 

Freeze Ray, as shown above, has great proc potential and will net slightly higher damage with procs. 

 

Secondaries with AoE holds, like plant and rad (are there others?) can create pseudo nukes from a power that does no base damage to enhance. 

 

This strategy won't make sense everywhere but it definitely makes a lot of sense in the right places. 

[Hjarki]

In terms of AE, I think there are two issues that haven't yet been discussed:

• Knockback AE. Consider Fireball vs. Explosive Arrow. They have the same activation time and recharge. Fireball just does more damage. However, because Explosive Arrow can slot Force Feedback, it will deal more damage than Fireball - and, indeed, the entire set will end up dealing more AE damage. That single slot of Force Feedback will yield ~30% global recharge average over time - a benefit that swamps the minor damage advantage Fireball enjoys.
• Ultimates. Everyone loves the ultimates. However, they're not actually that good. One problem is that, even in +4 content, much of their damage potential is wasted because they over-kill the minions/lieutenants. Another problem is that their recharge is so long that their overall dps is not high - the piddling damage from a Brute's Fiery Aura is many times more dps than the massive burst from Inferno. Procs exacerbate the recharge issue since the proc chance for Rain of Arrows and Inferno is effectively the same - 90%.

While it's unlikely that a feasible Blaster build contains 4+ procs in all of its primary attacks, almost any decent Blaster build is going to optimize around those procs. If I'm putting Apocalypse in one of my attacks, I'm probably going to grab the recharge bonus. But I don't really care all that much about the psionic defense, so I can just as easily 5-slot. I'm definitely taking the damage proc out of those 5 slots. And the last spot? It's probably going to another proc because I'm already well into ED territory with the basic damage of the attack. A 6-slotted Apocalypse is almost always going to be worse than 5-slot Apocalypse + Javelin toxic.

 

Likewise, consider Blaster's Wrath. I'm probably going to end up 6-slotting this because I need the Ranged Defense. But I can choose where I want to put it - and that 'where' probably isn't Sniper Attack (which has plenty of proc opportunities and I don't want to reduce my proc chances with all the excess recharge from the 6-set). If forced, I might shove it into my basic attack (which is going to have excess recharge compared to the rate at which I use it no matter what I do). But where I really want to put it is a place like Rain of Arrows where I don't have many proc options and the recharge in the set isn't going to hurt my proc chances.

 

These sorts of details can dramatically alter how various sets/ATs perform at 50 - often in ways players don't expect from a naive view of the power sets themselves - because they create an emphasis on 'holistic' builds. It may not seem like having more defense somewhere will help your offense, but it often does - because while you can't usefully slot more +damage, you can potentially slot those procs to augment your attacks.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Hjarki

[TheAdjustor]

2 hours ago, Hjarki said:

• Ultimates. Everyone loves the ultimates. However, they're not actually that good. One problem is that, even in +4 content, much of their damage potential is wasted because they over-kill the minions/lieutenants. Another problem is that their recharge is so long that their overall dps is not high - the piddling damage from a Brute's Fiery Aura is many times more dps than the massive burst from Inferno. Procs exacerbate the recharge issue since the proc chance for Rain of Arrows and Inferno is effectively the same - 90%.

 

Don't want to be nitpicky but I was testing this on beta yesterday and the proc chance in rain of Arrows is near nothing . The likely reason is that the pseudo pet tick rate of 3/sec is what is being used for the calculation of the proc rate not the 90sec recharge time.

 

Also Force Feedback is very nice but it's just not that big a deal.  There is very little difficulty for a blaster to have a continuous area effect chain  without the proc at all. From presonal experience the Knockback to Knockdown proc is more useful there.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Lots of rather iffy blaster advice here. Soft cap def. waste of a set focus on just about every blaster build out there. for example say your running the ever popular ITF, they shred def so bad in that TF that only hard def sets with def debuff res will have any meaningful res.  Same thing if running any shadow shard content and plenty of other enemy factions have some mobs that shred def.

 

Recharge is the name of the game for a blaster. in an end game build you should have two different attack chains. one using your 3 starting attacks that are always able to be used due to defiance, and your mass mob aoe chain for wiping out large groups. While our nuke and judgement is enough in lvl 50-51 content once you start pushing up to 52+ LTs and even some hardier minions might survive just long enough to be a mild annoyance. Many blasters make the mistake of under valuing those first 3 attacks.

 

In the first 3 attacks I make sure are some of my strongest sets, and try to fit in some kind of CC proc on the 6th slot to help counter CC any CCing boss types you get into a fire fight with. For example on ol berk my subdual is using 5 parts of gravitational anchor. It with the hold proc actually is a very solid single target CC that Ive even locked down AV with enough to keep them from going all benny hill.

 

In Psi Dart and mental blast I 5 part the 2 blaster sets and then slip in some dmg procs in the 6th slot.

 

Do keep in  mind I swear by drain psyche. any other blasters I play that do not have it are flavor RP builds and I do not treat them as high end content power houses like Berk is. Drain Psyche on a serious global recharge focus build will be up all the time, and on a good 8 man mob hit will give regen to rival even regen scrappers, with aoe damage better then any scrapper can dream of having alongside such regen.

 

Hence my approach is ghost into the middle of a group, drain psyche, nuke, single target down the big bosses. About the only ones that last meaningful time are psi res mobs like rikti mentalists.

 

I can not stress it enough GLOBAL RECHARGE IS THE SET BONUS BLASTERS SHOULD ALWAYS FOCUS ON!.

 

Every attack should have the 6th slot devoted to a proc, and the 5 set parts should include a dmg proc as well if possible. Ideally of dmg types different from your sets type to help mix it up abit. Now a few exceptions exist telekinetic blast for example, only mod dmg, but can fit in  quite a few procs as can telekinetic thrust. T thrust especially can be greatly boosted in avg DPS I find by fitting in 4 procs and 2 slotting it with franken setting for accuracy/recharge and end cost reduction.

 

Oh and then there is world of confusion. While I spec mine now days for CC with the lvl 50 purple confusion set. while leveling I proc it out with dmg procs and actually found it a reliable way to eat away at mobs while blasting down bigger targets during the lvling process. Id never do it post 50 but pre 50 I find it a very viable option.

 

[TheAdjustor]

55 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Lots of rather iffy blaster advice here. Soft cap def. waste of a set focus on just about every blaster build out there. for example say your running the ever popular ITF, they shred def so bad in that TF that only hard def sets with def debuff res will have any meaningful res.  Same thing if running any shadow shard content and plenty of other enemy factions have some mobs that shred def.

 

Do keep in  mind I swear by drain psyche. any other blasters I play that do not have it are flavor RP builds and I do not treat them as high end content power houses like Berk is. Drain Psyche on a serious global recharge focus build will be up all the time, and on a good 8 man mob hit will give regen to rival even regen scrappers, with aoe damage better then any scrapper can dream of having alongside such regen.

 

 

Even /Regen melee characters need to get defense and resistance to be really survivable.  IIRC correctly drain psyche regeneration caps out at  around 100 hp/sec. It's not nearly enough. I used to run an archery/mental manipulation blaster on live and my first go at it was pure high recharge (Gladiators Armor wasn't a thing yet). Without defense you might as well call that toon Pincushion . There would be so many roman spears sticking out of her you'd think it was a costume choice. 

 

The point of softcapping defense on a blaster is so you survive the alpha and aren't mezzed nearly as much. After the first volley most of the enemies should be dead and you aren't likely to have cascading failure from one or two attackers.

 

I have to ask why do you think you can't have high defense and high recharge and all the bells and whistles ? I am looking at my archery/tactical arrow build, I have 4 types of damage better than softcapped, range as a position better than softcapped and a 175% global recharge.

Edited August 20, 2019 by TheAdjustor

[MunkiLord]

5 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Lots of rather iffy blaster advice here. Soft cap def. waste of a set focus on just about every blaster build out there. for example say your running the ever popular ITF, they shred def so bad in that TF that only hard def sets with def debuff res will have any meaningful res.  Same thing if running any shadow shard content and plenty of other enemy factions have some mobs that shred def.

 

Recharge is the name of the game for a blaster. in an end game build you should have two different attack chains. one using your 3 starting attacks that are always able to be used due to defiance, and your mass mob aoe chain for wiping out large groups. While our nuke and judgement is enough in lvl 50-51 content once you start pushing up to 52+ LTs and even some hardier minions might survive just long enough to be a mild annoyance. Many blasters make the mistake of under valuing those first 3 attacks.

 

In the first 3 attacks I make sure are some of my strongest sets, and try to fit in some kind of CC proc on the 6th slot to help counter CC any CCing boss types you get into a fire fight with. For example on ol berk my subdual is using 5 parts of gravitational anchor. It with the hold proc actually is a very solid single target CC that Ive even locked down AV with enough to keep them from going all benny hill.

 

In Psi Dart and mental blast I 5 part the 2 blaster sets and then slip in some dmg procs in the 6th slot.

 

Do keep in  mind I swear by drain psyche. any other blasters I play that do not have it are flavor RP builds and I do not treat them as high end content power houses like Berk is. Drain Psyche on a serious global recharge focus build will be up all the time, and on a good 8 man mob hit will give regen to rival even regen scrappers, with aoe damage better then any scrapper can dream of having alongside such regen.

 

Hence my approach is ghost into the middle of a group, drain psyche, nuke, single target down the big bosses. About the only ones that last meaningful time are psi res mobs like rikti mentalists.

 

I can not stress it enough GLOBAL RECHARGE IS THE SET BONUS BLASTERS SHOULD ALWAYS FOCUS ON!.

 

Every attack should have the 6th slot devoted to a proc, and the 5 set parts should include a dmg proc as well if possible. Ideally of dmg types different from your sets type to help mix it up abit. Now a few exceptions exist telekinetic blast for example, only mod dmg, but can fit in  quite a few procs as can telekinetic thrust. T thrust especially can be greatly boosted in avg DPS I find by fitting in 4 procs and 2 slotting it with franken setting for accuracy/recharge and end cost reduction.

 

Oh and then there is world of confusion. While I spec mine now days for CC with the lvl 50 purple confusion set. while leveling I proc it out with dmg procs and actually found it a reliable way to eat away at mobs while blasting down bigger targets during the lvling process. Id never do it post 50 but pre 50 I find it a very viable option.

 

You're talking in absolutes here, and the game just doesn't work that way. Sure defense gets slaughtered on an ITF, but a Blaster generally doesn't have a need to just sit in the middle of mobs holding aggro. On an Ice/Fire defense is just there for the alpha strike. After that half the mobs are falling down because of Blizzard, half are slowly running away due to hot feet, and half are dead before Burn is done.

 

Focusing on recharge and something else like defense are not mutually exclusive goals. All the recharge in the world won't do you any good if you've face planted in three seconds, and at the same time those defense will eventually fail if you can't get off enough attacks to bring down mobs.

[Haijinx]

You do need to be on your feet to do damage.  

 

You have roughly no useable recharge when faceplanted.

 

So i like to get the Scorpion shield.  Building for 45 S/L+ranged def being a goal. 

 

 

 

[Obitus]

9 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Lots of rather iffy blaster advice here. Soft cap def. waste of a set focus on just about every blaster build out there. for example say your running the ever popular ITF, they shred def so bad in that TF that only hard def sets with def debuff res will have any meaningful res.  Same thing if running any shadow shard content and plenty of other enemy factions have some mobs that shred def.

The first sentence sums up your post admirably.  Dismissing the value of soft-capped DEF on the basis that Rularuu exist doesn't pass the laugh test.  As for Cimerorans?  They have to hit before you get cascade failure.

 

9 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Do keep in  mind I swear by drain psyche. any other blasters I play that do not have it are flavor RP builds and I do not treat them as high end content power houses like Berk is. Drain Psyche on a serious global recharge focus build will be up all the time, and on a good 8 man mob hit will give regen to rival even regen scrappers, with aoe damage better then any scrapper can dream of having alongside such regen.

Ahaha, yes, I see.  The DEF-is-useless-because-no-one-should-ever-play-a-non-Mental-Blaster argument.  😛

 

Btw, like Adjustor, I have a soft-capped Blaster with 175% global recharge.  Ohhh damn my build must suck so so bad at putting out damage!

Edited August 21, 2019 by Obitus

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

17 hours ago, TheAdjustor said:

Even /Regen melee characters need to get defense and resistance to be really survivable.  IIRC correctly drain psyche regeneration caps out at  around 100 hp/sec. It's not nearly enough. I used to run an archery/mental manipulation blaster on live and my first go at it was pure high recharge (Gladiators Armor wasn't a thing yet). Without defense you might as well call that toon Pincushion . There would be so many roman spears sticking out of her you'd think it was a costume choice. 

 

The point of softcapping defense on a blaster is so you survive the alpha and aren't mezzed nearly as much. After the first volley most of the enemies should be dead and you aren't likely to have cascading failure from one or two attackers.

 

I have to ask why do you think you can't have high defense and high recharge and all the bells and whistles ? I am looking at my archery/tactical arrow build, I have 4 types of damage better than softcapped, range as a position better than softcapped and a 175% global recharge.

I focus on resistances over defenses. While dmg res debuffing happens its actually a lot less common then def debuffing on mobs. The shadow shard is a go to hunting ground for Berk so Psi res is my main focus from sets along with mez pro way above all other defensive set bonuses. I have force of nature and rune of protection and due to my typical clear speed I am always eating inspirations like candy because of how fast my tray refills.

 

Now look I get it you went full archer. and TA is fucking amazing and then some, In fact I think anyone being honest can agree taht like Bio Armor, tactical arrow isnt just OP its  gone bloody plaid.  Do not talk to me about the point of this or that on a blaster bud. There is not a blaster combo that exists I havnt capped back on live, and am working on numerous blasters now with the new sets. Hence why i can say such about TA, Drain psyche was the standard I championed back on live forums for all other 2ndarys to get some kind of sustain comparable to. A great many fellow blaster players did not get it. Mental was in the day often mistakenly called gimp because to META players fire x3 builds with perfect teams was the standard. But I was intractable on those forums and I shall be so here. I do not speak from the realm of theoretical numbers I speak from the realm of experience in active play and not against farms of low end enemy factions or a pylon.

 

I dont blap I point Blank!

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

9 hours ago, Obitus said:

The first sentence sums up your post admirably.  Dismissing the value of soft-capped DEF on the basis that Rularuu exist doesn't pass the laugh test.  As for Cimerorans?  They have to hit before you get cascade failure.

 

Ahaha, yes, I see.  The DEF-is-useless-because-no-one-should-ever-play-a-non-Mental-Blaster argument.  😛

 

Btw, like Adjustor, I have a soft-capped Blaster with 175% global recharge.  Ohhh damn my build must suck so so bad at putting out damage!

You certainly like to take a personally combative tone and are clearly emotional about this subject. Defs biggest weakness large groups of mobs. Ruluruu are my standard because I was there the day they invaded you barmy berk. For those there that day we wont ever forget nor be caught ill prepared by them again. One day they shall come again I have know doubt. So they are my standard for what end game mobs should be and always have been. Sure ignore the shadow shard, pretend the devourer of entire universes and his army doesnt exist.

 

Did I say no one should play a non mental? nope in fact pretty sure Ive said in many posts now I know blasters because I have played just about every single possible blaster power combo to cap over live, and am working on updating that to inlcude the new sets and have a few blasters being leveled all the time.  I did mention high end builds. Ive also gone on record before say there is nothing wrong with concept builds I myself have ones I wont even go incarnate with based on concept alone. Not every build needs to be able to swiftly solo +3 and +4 x 8 groups. plenty of my RP toons cant push much past +1 or 2 x5 or so.

 

Did I say a blaster couldnt dish out damage? A blaster is all about damage, A brain damaged chimp smashing the keyboard could do damage with a blaster for the love of Tilekku.! What I said was there are always better set bonsues to persue on a blaster IMO and IME.  I in no way suggested a blaster could not do damage due to alternative set choices.

 

I was just trying to be all inclusive in my summation of blasters for the OP who said they are a newbie blaster while also addressing the actual topic of procs, something clearly being derailed by some of my forum fanbois taking my broad post like a personal attack.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Bentley Berkeley

[Obitus]

10 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

You certainly like to take a personally combative tone and are clearly emotional about this subject. Defs biggest weakness large groups of mobs. Ruluruu are my standard because I was there the day they invaded you barmy berk. For those there that day we wont ever forget nor be caught ill prepared by them again. One day they shall come again I have know doubt. So they are my standard for what end game mobs should be and always have been. Sure ignore the shadow shard, pretend the devourer of entire universes and his army doesnt exist.

Combative?  Maybe.  When confronted with a post like yours, which offered just about zero in terms of substantive argument to back up your supercilious, I'm-the-only-expert-in-the-room tone, I more or less have to resort to mockery.  That doesn't mean I'm emotional; it means you didn't say anything worth refuting in detail.  But fine, here we go:

 

Of course you're entitled to believe that Rularuu are deathlessly important.  But Rularuu basically ignore Defense, so if your position is that Blaster DEF is pointless because Rularuu, then you're essentially saying that all DEF on every build everywhere is pointless - all because of one NPC faction out of dozens.  Imagine if we were talking about, say, SR Scrappers.  "LOL, you should never build for DEF on an SR Scrapper, because Rularuu." 

 

Rularuu are the crucial example here because pretty much every other NPC faction will give you at least a few seconds before they shred your DEF.  Many NPC factions won't shred your DEF at all.  Yes, it's absolutely true that other DEF builds, like the aforementioned Super Reflexes, are more robust in the face of debuffs, but Blasters aren't meant to tank over a sustained period of time.  The name of the game with soft-capped Blasters is to avoid the alpha strike, and by extension to avoid the bulk of the bad effects thrown your way (mezzes, debuffs).  Needless to say, that extra breathing room is extremely helpful, both solo and in teams.  It allows a Blaster to focus more on pumping out offense.

 

In effect, you did in fact say that no one should play non-Mental, or rather you consigned every other Blaster secondary to flavor/RP status, and therefore you suggested that build considerations for non-Mental Blasters are irrelevant or trivial.  Why?  Probably because you sensed that your argument is weak, so you distracted us with Drain Psyche.  Of course, this thread, the advice in which you dismissed as "iffy," isn't specifically aimed at /Mental Blasters.  Your Recharge-uber-alles approach isn't very compelling as a general build strategy, especially given that competent builders, like @TheAdjustor , above, can achieve very high levels of global recharge on top of high levels of DEF.  I notice that in both of your verbose replies you've managed to gloss over that point.

 

(It should also go without saying that soloing large crowds as fast as possible isn't the only valid approach to high-end gameplay or a high-end build.  Someone who focuses more on, say, single-target damage isn't playing a joke build just because it may not farm as fast as your Blaster, which is built around Drain Psyche and PBAoE damage - and as far as I can tell, little else.   In any case, the joke's on you if you think that even a highly optimized /Mental Blaster farms noticeably faster than a farming build with robust anti-scatter mechanics, like Brute taunt auras.  Yes, you have more burst AoE damage; no, that burst AoE damage isn't enough to drop +3 or +4 bosses in one or two rotations, not even close.  I spent a lot of time messing around with farms on a Fire/Mental back on the live servers; billions of INF spent, and the inescapable conclusion was that there's a reason farmers favor Brutes or even Controllers over Blasters. A Blaster can work, but it's sub-optimal.)

 

And on the thread's titular subject of procs, you didn't even really disagree with the "iffy" advice posted upthread.  What you advocate isn't a "proc monster," or a build that revolves around procs.  You advocate light proc slotting in most attacks.  I probably have more procs than you do, based on your testimony here, and I'm a gimpy DEF builder. 

[MunkiLord]

46 minutes ago, Obitus said:

I spent a lot of time messing around with farms on a Fire/Mental back on the live servers; billions of INF spent, and the inescapable conclusion was that there's a reason farmers favor Brutes or even Controllers over Blasters. A Blaster can work, but it's sub-optimal.)

My personal experience is that knockdown/up is the only thing that makes my Blasters work for farming. Without it the mobs scatter too much, especially on my /fire