The Plan for Wind Control [updated w images first-last post]

[daveyfiacre]

4 hours ago, Rylas said:

Wow, I that's a lot of impressive work you've clearly put in! I know you're asking for thoughts on animations, but I've barely played much with controllers so I'm not familiar with the most of the ones you've listed for options. I'm curious though about your thoughts on what the powers will do outside of control effects. Low/Med/High damage? Any DoTs? Debuff effects? 

 

Also, once you've flushed this out and are finished with it, do you have any ideas for other sets? Asking for a friend who likes seeing new stuff for the game. 

 

...that friend is me.

The sets basically complete. Preliminary numbers already set and comparable to other control sets, as set by the original devs.

 

also small nitpick to an earlier reply, I didn’t pick inky darkness powers or icy ice powers, I picked the ones that would fit best for the set, and are more windy than anything. XD

[Vanden]

7 minutes ago, daveyfiacre said:

also small nitpick to an earlier reply, I didn’t pick inky darkness powers or icy ice powers, I picked the ones that would fit best for the set, and are more windy than anything. XD

What's wind-like about Block of Ice, or Glacier? Even if you take away the obvious ice, what's left still looks like frost, not fast-moving air. Where's the wind in Haunt? It's just an inky black ghost.

[Vanden]

21 minutes ago, Rylas said:

I suppose you have a point. You're so patient in how much quality you demand of people's good will and generosity. 

I don't appreciate these posts that characterize me as unreasonably demanding. If they'd brought back CoH, but everyone's ping was over 500 at best, and half the time you couldn't see other players, and it crashed every 30 minutes, would you have been happy just to have the game back? Or would you have been disappointed that it wasn't like what you remembered when the game was live? I was excited to see the new power sets that weren't available when the game shut down, but Rad Melee and Rad Armor were a disappointment. I understand that they were finished by a group working with no resources or funding, but it doesn't change the fact that the sets are hacked-together using ill-fitting FX and exist alongside sets that had the proper work put in, and they stand out in a bad way. I don't want that for any more power sets.

[Galaxy Brain]

19 minutes ago, Vanden said:

What's wind-like about Block of Ice, or Glacier? Even if you take away the obvious ice, what's left still looks like frost, not fast-moving air. Where's the wind in Haunt? It's just an inky black ghost.

Block of ice / ice armor effects have that whirlwind around you as it activates iirc

[Rylas]

25 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I don't appreciate these posts that characterize me as unreasonably demanding. If they'd brought back CoH, but everyone's ping was over 500 at best, and half the time you couldn't see other players, and it crashed every 30 minutes, would you have been happy just to have the game back? Or would you have been disappointed that it wasn't like what you remembered when the game was live? I was excited to see the new power sets that weren't available when the game shut down, but Rad Melee and Rad Armor were a disappointment. I understand that they were finished by a group working with no resources or funding, but it doesn't change the fact that the sets are hacked-together using ill-fitting FX and exist alongside sets that had the proper work put in, and they stand out in a bad way. I don't want that for any more power sets.

I can completely understand that you don't appreciate the way people have taken your comments. And while I didn't make mine to "join the bandwagon" of those comments, I made them because how you're coming across sounds incredibly dismissive, unappreciative and, yes, demanding. Someone went through a lot of work, in their free time, without pay, and out of their own love of the game, to create a power set that could be implemented. Your only feed back couldn't even take the time to acknowledge that work and effort and only offered "No thanks. You should do it right." 

Let's forego the fact that you aren't the arbiter of how things can be considered right. Just try putting yourself in someone else's shoes who goes through a lot of effort to add to the game and the first comment pisses on it. It's not like we have a ton of people taking the time out to do what OP did. And it's not really fair to expect OP to be able to do 100% of the work that usually would be done by a team of developers. 

Sure, you can drag out the extreme hypothetical examples that would make the game less enjoyable to play, but once you're getting into "these things don't look exactly how I'd prefer with my specific expectations", well, yeah, you're going to come across as unreasonably demanding. Especially since you haven't seen the end result yet. Sorry that you can't get over Raditation Melee's animations to enjoy a rather fun set, but the animations fit well enough for me to not have noticed any issues with them. And they don't seem to be bothering a lot people. 

You're certainly entitled to your opinions on visual quality; I get it, I'm an art director. But as long as this is a volunteer based game, it's better to have more reasonable expectations and appreciation for what's being given by those who give freely of their time and are doing the best they can. Especially if you're not going to be bothered with doing it yourself. 

[Vanden]

3 minutes ago, Rylas said:

I can completely understand that you don't appreciate the way people have taken your comments. And while I didn't make mine to "join the bandwagon" of those comments, I made them because how you're coming across sounds incredibly dismissive, unappreciative and, yes, demanding. Someone went through a lot of work, in their free time, without pay, and out of their own love of the game, to create a power set that could be implemented. Your only feed back couldn't even take the time to acknowledge that work and effort and only offered "No thanks. You should do it right." 

The point of feedback isn't to coddle the creator and tell them they did such a great job, it's to be honest and constructive. That's what a creator needs, and my honest and constructive feedback for the previous results of this idea already is that it isn't up to the standards the game has set.

 

8 minutes ago, Rylas said:

Let's forego the fact that you aren't the arbiter of how things can be considered right. Just try putting yourself in someone else's shoes who goes through a lot of effort to add to the game and the first comment pisses on it. It's not like we have a ton of people taking the time out to do what OP did. And it's not really fair to expect OP to be able to do 100% of the work that usually would be done by a team of developers. 

Where did I say that the onus is on OP to implement the graphics properly?

 

11 minutes ago, Rylas said:

Sure, you can drag out the extreme hypothetical examples that would make the game less enjoyable to play, but once you're getting into "these things don't look exactly how I'd prefer with my specific expectations", well, yeah, you're going to come across as unreasonably demanding. Especially since you haven't seen the end result yet. Sorry that you can't get over Raditation Melee's animations to enjoy a rather fun set, but the animations fit well enough for me to not have noticed any issues with them. And they don't seem to be bothering a lot people. 

You're certainly entitled to your opinions on visual quality; I get it, I'm an art director. But as long as this is a volunteer based game, it's better to have more reasonable expectations and appreciation for what's being given by those who give freely of their time and are doing the best they can. Especially if you're not going to be bothered with doing it yourself. 

I don't think asking for proper FX is unreasonably demanding, especially since I'm not demanding it in any sort of time frame, or even demanding it at all. "I want them to do Wind Control right," which is what I've actually said, is not a demand. It's my opinion.

[Rylas]

19 minutes ago, Vanden said:

The point of feedback isn't to coddle the creator and tell them they did such a great job, it's to be honest and constructive. That's what a creator needs, and my honest and constructive feedback for the previous results of this idea already is that it isn't up to the standards the game has set.

I'm familiar with what creatives need. Nothing in your first response was constructive. Constructive criticism is meant to build up. Not be negative and tear down. Nothing, absolutely nothing, in your comment was positive or constructive. In a creative studio, feedback like that would just make you the group a***ole. Not the one people go to for input. It's not about coddling, it's about inspiring. 

I'd hate to see anyone willing to invest their time into the game scared off because initial responses from the community show zero appreciation. 

Quote

Where did I say that the onus is on OP to implement the graphics properly?

You didn't. But we don't have anyone building animations as far as I've seen, so having the expectation for them sounds a bit lofty. You can't want your pie in the sky, but I'm pretty content having the pie that's reachable and looks just fine.

Quote

I don't think asking for proper FX is unreasonably demanding, especially since I'm not demanding it in any sort of time frame, or even demanding it at all. "I want them to do Wind Control right," which is what I've actually said, is not a demand. It's my opinion.

Fortunately, you're not the one deciding what the standard for "right" is. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Rylas

[oedipus_tex]

There is a very wind-like effect attached to many of the Ice powers, yes. Especially some of the armors. 

 

Also don't forget powers in Radiation, many of which only look like radiation just because of their color. 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[Vanden]

8 minutes ago, Rylas said:

I'm familiar with what creatives need. Nothing in your first response was constructive. Constructive criticism is meant to build up. Not be negative and tear down. Nothing, absolutely nothing, in your comment was positive or constructive. In a creative studio, feedback like that would just make you the group a***ole. Not the one people go to for input. It's not about coddling, it's about inspiring. 

I'd hate to see anyone willing to invest their time into the game scared off because initial responses from the community show zero appreciation. 

Some ideas are just bad. The most constructive thing you can say about them is "don't do it."

 

9 minutes ago, Rylas said:

You didn't

Then why did you respond as if I did?

 

9 minutes ago, Rylas said:

I'm pretty content having the pie that's reachable and looks just fine.

That's fair. I'm not.

[Rylas]

7 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Some ideas are just bad. The most constructive thing you can say about them is "don't do it."

You're initial response. It was a bad idea. Don't do it.

 

And if people are responding to it negatively, maybe take some time to reflect on that. Or don't. Self awareness isn't for everyone.

7 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Then why did you respond as if I did?

Sure, ignore the rest of what I said to explain the point of my response. That's what I get for trying to give you some slack, I suppose. While you didn't literally tell OP to make animations, you didn't form your criticism in a way that didn't sound directed at him either.

 

[Vanden]

9 minutes ago, Rylas said:

You're initial response. It was a bad idea. Don't do it.

Now you're getting the idea.

 

10 minutes ago, Rylas said:

Sure, ignore the rest of what I said to explain the point of my response. That's what I get for trying to give you some slack, I suppose. While you didn't literally tell OP to make animations, you didn't form your criticism in a way that didn't sound directed at him either.

What you said didn't explain why you responded to me as if I was telling the OP to make the proper graphics themselves. All I've said directly to the OP is I don't think their proposed reused FX will result in good-looking powers.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Now you're getting the idea.

 

What you said didn't explain why you responded to me as if I was telling the OP to make the proper graphics themselves. All I've said directly to the OP is I don't think their proposed reused FX will result in good-looking powers.

Right, so the real question or division is this:  Would you rather get wind control sooner, with animations reused from other existing powers, or get it at a later, indeterminate time,  (or possibly never), by holding out for all new animations...

[Vanden]

Just now, biostem said:

Right, so the real question or division is this:  Would you rather get wind control sooner, with animations reused from other existing powers, or get it at a later, indeterminate time,  (or possibly never), by holding out for all new animations...

The latter, for me.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Vanden

[MunkiLord]

2 hours ago, Vanden said:

I don't appreciate these posts that characterize me as unreasonably demanding. 

If most people are perceiving your comments that way, as appears to be the case, then that means you did a poor job communicating. If you want people to perceive your comments in a different way, then present them in a different way. That is 100% on you.

 

Moving on to a non ridiculous subject, Wind Power looks cool! But................NO knockback powers!?!?!?!? Hey I get people aren't a big fan of KB, but I feel at least one KB power makes sense.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

If most people are perceiving your comments that way, as appears to be the case, then that means you did a poor job communicating. If you want people to perceive your comments in a different way, then present them in a different way. That is 100% on you.

 

Moving on to a non ridiculous subject, Wind Power looks cool! But................NO knockback powers!?!?!?!? Hey I get people aren't a big fan of KB, but I feel at least one KB power makes sense.

If you look here, you can see an outline of what the powers would be.  They're actually very reasonable regarding the knock effects...

[MunkiLord]

I'd absolutely play this set and I also prefer knock up and knock down over knock back for the obvious reasons. But..................I'd love just one KB power to really send an enemy flying.

[Leogunner]

Just now, Vanden said:

What makes you think I'm impatient? I'm willing to wait as long as it takes to do Wind Control right, unlike the people in this thread who want it now now now, without a thought as to how unpolished it would look.

Don't you think you're being hypocritical here, saying you're not impatient while projecting the same accusation?

 

I have my own views on what could be done with certain powers, skins, animations and effects.  Just because someone has an opinion on something doesn't mean they're open to complete generalization of intent.  You kinda did that when you said it'd "look bad on the devs" when, to be truthful, wouldn't actually be the case.  That doesn't mean I agree with the OP but I don't disagree either lol

[Vanden]

8 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

If most people are perceiving your comments that way, as appears to be the case, then that means you did a poor job communicating. If you want people to perceive your comments in a different way, then present them in a different way. That is 100% on you.

All I've said is I want the set to have properly made FX. I didn't say I want it soon, I didn't say it was on OP to do that, I didn't even phrase it in a way that sounds like I'm demanding it be done. All I did was express my opinion. If you can think of a way to make that sound even more passive than it already is (while still being the same sentiment), I'm all ears.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Vanden

[Vanden]

28 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Don't you think you're being hypocritical here, saying you're not impatient while projecting the same accusation?

Alright, that's fair. Just because people are less patient than me doesn't mean they're being all "I want it now now now." I apologize.

[Williwaw]

One of the "Volume 2" servers just announced Water Control, which baffles me.  They skipped right over Wind Control to one that, as far as I know, was barely more than a name on a list.

[daveyfiacre]

5 hours ago, Vanden said:

What's wind-like about Block of Ice, or Glacier? Even if you take away the obvious ice, what's left still looks like frost, not fast-moving air. Where's the wind in Haunt? It's just an inky black ghost.

so, maybe my post was misread. block of ice and glacier are what is currently coded as the placeholder animations. what i suggest is to the right of it, as a wind like possible replacement. and haunt is a suggested pet because of all the pets in game besides storm elementals [[[which would probably fit better if base colors could be changed to grey/brown to fit the set gonna edit OP with that ty!]]],  its the least humanoid and animal like. and changing default color on powers, example of darkness powers listed, from inherent black base to inherent light grey base, would change the tinted color range and look of the pets and powers. and if anything, that'd make it a little grey cloud blob thing and not a black inky ghost thing.

[daveyfiacre]

10 hours ago, Rylas said:

Wow, I that's a lot of impressive work you've clearly put in! I know you're asking for thoughts on animations, but I've barely played much with controllers so I'm not familiar with the most of the ones you've listed for options. I'm curious though about your thoughts on what the powers will do outside of control effects. Low/Med/High damage? Any DoTs? Debuff effects? 

 

Also, once you've flushed this out and are finished with it, do you have any ideas for other sets? Asking for a friend who likes seeing new stuff for the game. 

 

...that friend is me.

Only wind was posted so far because mechanically the set is basically done, only missing the right vfx. the set works, ive played it. But yeah, lol, yeah i have several written down cuz im an obsessive freak ;). also, if possible, i think some animations should be proliferated between sets, easy example is dual pistols blast animations ported to MM's 3 dp powers. like, that was a no-brainer. xD but also alternate pet model options [obviously visuals only] for sets [as done with the dark servant, and within reason using existing in game npc models, like tsoo for ninjas or banished pantheon for zombies, or CoT demons for demons.]

[daveyfiacre]

added tags, in hopes that those who can enact this, might consider it 😮

[daveyfiacre]

oh look, that coxg server are in the process of implementing exactly what i was suggesting. lolz.

 

im not saying lets copy them... but i am saying, i said do this and then they did this. lol

[Steampunkette]

Honestly that looks freaking amazing...