Pylon Damage Thread

[Caulderone]

3 minutes ago, Signalrunner said:

T3 Degen -HP only

FYI, the glitches with the DoT procs and stacking have been fixed.  You could T4 this.

[jagspowar]

On 7/29/2019 at 9:52 AM, Maxzero said:

Speaking of proc monster I have to thank Orbitus for his help with my Ill/Storm Troller. Replaced my Cardiac with Muscle, got my T4 degen and souped up my build big time.

Do you think this build is viable and has survivability in regular gameplay, @Maxzero?

 

On 7/30/2019 at 2:10 AM, nihilii said:

Fire/Atomic/Pyre blaster (Justin) made following @Obitus' thoughts here:

What about this build, @nihilii? Would this be too squishy for normal play?

 

Both of these are high DPS combinations I would like to play with, but I realize they are catered toward pylon runs.

 

[nihilii]

17 hours ago, jagspowar said:

What about this build, @nihilii? Would this be too squishy for normal play?

I feel it'd definitely be too squishy without insps. But, if you're willing to use insps and/or amplifiers, the sky's the limit.

On Live, I later made a Fire/Dev/Pyre that dealt respectable "range" damage (if we accept Taser as range, at 20 feet) while also boasting decent survivability through alternating Melee Core Hybrid and Rune of Protection. /Dev is pretty sweet in giving you +tohit for maximum snipe damage (meaning you don't need Tactics) and a couple more defense points.

 

But (I haven't played the character for a while) I think the Targeting Drone fix made it so the damage boost comes up only after you've been out of combat for 8 seconds, whereas it used to happen every 8 seconds. So YMMV on /Dev. I think Melee Core + RoP is a good basis for any Blaster anyway, you don't lose much by giving up Assault Hybrid; then build for ~20% def to all and you can have decent survivability by popping a couple lucks as needed, while chasing as much DPS as you can through Musculature, Ageless and procs.

[jagspowar]

12 hours ago, nihilii said:

I feel it'd definitely be too squishy without insps. But, if you're willing to use insps and/or amplifiers, the sky's the limit.

I'd prefer not having to constantly pop those before every battle if possible.

 

The reason I brought this up is because I had a Fire/Rad Corr on live that I really enjoyed playing, but Fire/Atomic would fit the concept and I want to roll a ranged damage dealer/GM Killer. Do you have thoughts on a comparison of the two for regular gameplay?

 

Thanks!

[nihilii]

5 hours ago, jagspowar said:

The reason I brought this up is because I had a Fire/Rad Corr on live that I really enjoyed playing, but Fire/Atomic would fit the concept and I want to roll a ranged damage dealer/GM Killer. Do you have thoughts on a comparison of the two for regular gameplay?

I'm thinking it depends how you used to play your Fire/Rad. i.e., if you were used to deliberate, cautious play throwing RI, EF and LR to nullify every group you engage, it would take significant defensive building to get the Fire/Atomic up there. But if you were more reckless and just charged ahead, throwing EF/LR and not caring too much about RI, perhaps the blaster wouldn't be too much of a change?

 

It ought to be doable to build for the ranged softcap and keep great DPS, in any case. Homecoming saw some powercreep, which is helpful for us here. Instasnipes and crashless nukes combine in a tremendous increase of damage output. Procs are also more potent. Shield Wall + Reactive Defenses + Gladiator Armor + Steadfast gives you +6% def and +8% res right off the bat, Unbreakable Guard an extra +7.5% HP, and so on.

With all that in mind, I'd say going from Live Fire/Rad corr to Homecoming Fire/Atomic blaster could be an exhilarating change of pace, if only for the oodles of pure damage you're going to deliver. Plus, you get new toys to play with.

If you're on the fence, you could hop on the Test server. It lets you build a character directly to level 50, unlock full incarnates and summon any IO through the freebies menu on the bottom left.

Edited April 18, 2020 by nihilii

[jagspowar]

10 hours ago, nihilii said:

If you're on the fence, you could hop on the Test server. It lets you build a character directly to level 50, unlock full incarnates and summon any IO through the freebies menu on the bottom left.

I didn't know that. Do you have a build I could test out?

 

Thank you for all the info!

[Bopper]

A run with my Granite/SS/Soul Tank,

Musc T4 Radial, Degen T3 Core, Ageless T4 Core, Assault T4 Radial

Rotation consisted of randomly mashing Knockout Blow, Gloom, Cross Punch, Dark Obliteration, and Foot Stomp
In Granite Armor.

 

This build isn't optimized for single target DPS, it's just my regular offensive build that I occasionally farm with. Intended more for AoE.

 

Hybrid OFF (No Insps)

4:15 = 278 DPS (changed damage proc to fury proc in cross punch)

4:49 = 261 DPS (changed damage proc to fury proc in cross punch)

4:53 = 259 DPS

5:29 = 244 DPS

5:13 = 250 DPS

 

I had never tried to take down a pylon with this character before, so this is mostly me flailing trying to figure out how to best execute my attacks on the fly. 

 

Edit: I added two more times that reflect the impact of Fury of the Gladiator Proc in my Cross Punch. 

Edit #2: I originally posted my build used a T4 Degen Core. Actually it was only T3 (no 25% DoT).

Edited April 30, 2020 by Bopper
added FotG proc times. corrected T3 Degen Core

[Dismiss]

I've built the basics of a Monte Carlo simulation of Pylon runs due to wanting to get some practice with Object Oriented Programming and JavaScript.

 

It currently handles dynamically calculated buffs (e.g. hastens impact on cooldowns and impact of any down time), Pylon's regeneration, buff procs (e.g. Critical Strikes), damage procs and hit calculations. It takes a defined attack chain with the user inputting the enhancement values in each power and defined set of other buffs to cast (e.g. Hasten, build up) and runs 5k iterations to generate a probability density function like so:

 

https://imgur.com/7t9uefg

 

I'm debating if there's enough interest for me to finish this, since there's still a significant amount of work to do (handling debuffs, handling sets that have special mechanics like Street Justice, adding incarnate powers (ageless is of particular importance and the entire UI). I know I would find it useful for testing different builds I come up with to see the impact on P10,50,90 outcomes and compare means and standard deviations. I'm thinking about some way to save and overlay runs so you can visually compare.

 

Would people be interested in this?

[Bopper]

4 hours ago, Dismiss said:

I've built the basics of a Monte Carlo simulation of Pylon runs due to wanting to get some practice with Object Oriented Programming and JavaScript.

 

It currently handles dynamically calculated buffs (e.g. hastens impact on cooldowns and impact of any down time), Pylon's regeneration, buff procs (e.g. Critical Strikes), damage procs and hit calculations. It takes a defined attack chain with the user inputting the enhancement values in each power and defined set of other buffs to cast (e.g. Hasten, build up) and runs 5k iterations to generate a probability density function like so:

 

https://imgur.com/7t9uefg

 

I'm debating if there's enough interest for me to finish this, since there's still a significant amount of work to do (handling debuffs, handling sets that have special mechanics like Street Justice, adding incarnate powers (ageless is of particular importance and the entire UI). I know I would find it useful for testing different builds I come up with to see the impact on P10,50,90 outcomes and compare means and standard deviations. I'm thinking about some way to save and overlay runs so you can visually compare.

 

Would people be interested in this?

Certainly I would. I'd love to compare it with my program. Yours sounds further along so if it checks out, it'd be nice to not have to finish mine lol 

[nihilii]

[[EDIT]] After thinking further about those too-good-to-be-true numbers, I'm pretty sure I had amplifiers on. Will have to retest for sure.

 

[[EDIT 2]] Had one go at it. 3:15 = 324 DPS. Makes a lot more sense than the previous, inflated results.

 

[[Original post below]]

StJ/Rad/Soul Brute, Degen T4, Cardiac/Rebirth/Melee
Starting from Gloom -> Shin Breaker -> Rib Cracker -> Crushing Uppercut -> Shin Breaker -> Rib Cracker, but in practice I mix Radiation Therapy and Build Up in there to the point SB and RC are used less often.

2:36 = 373 DPS

2:42 = 364 DPS

~+80 DPS from my previous build... after a respec meant to sacrifice some ST DPS in favor of AoE.

 

Likely thanks to Radiation Therapy. Supercharged with procs, it becomes quite potent not just as an AoE but as a ST attack, too. 1.2s animation, and according to Mids stats, 355 damage, 90% chance to proc the Fury -res proc, and -150% regen.

 

Build::

Spoiler

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Edited April 21, 2020 by nihilii

[Maxzero]

On 4/17/2020 at 4:42 AM, jagspowar said:

Do you think this build is viable and has survivability in regular gameplay, @Maxzero?

 

What about this build, @nihilii? Would this be too squishy for normal play?

 

Both of these are high DPS combinations I would like to play with, but I realize they are catered toward pylon runs.

 

All Ill/ Controllers are fine solo. Invincible pets plus defense buffs makes you pretty damn safe.

 

The main issue on why on moved back to MMs from Trollers was:

 

1) Ill does not have a spammable Immo so enemies run out of your AoEs.

 

2) Outside of PA Ill is lacking in real game changing abilities.

 

As a MM I can still cobble together an attacking chain from Patron Pools, Anc Pools and the odd MM attack. All while pets are putting put a solid 200+ DPS independently from me.

 

Honestly a Demon/Storm or Thug/Storm can cross a 1000 DPS on a pylon fairly easily. I have just been too busy with other games to make a video and now I can't.

 

Honestly it's not even close on ST DPS anymore anything MM/Storm is number 1.

 

At work but I will post my latest setup that uses Burnout for a double Gang War, Lightning Storm and Tornado start. Could probably drop a pylon in 30 seconds.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Maxzero

[Dismiss]

2 hours ago, Maxzero said:

As a MM I can still cobble together an attacking chain from Patron Pools, Anc Pools and the odd MM attack. All while pets are putting put a solid 200+ DPS independently from me.

 

Honestly a Demon/Storm or Thug/Storm can cross a 1000 DPS on a pylon fairly easily. I have just been too busy with other games to make a video and now I can't.

 

Honestly it's not even close on ST DPS anymore anything MM/Storm is number 1.

 

At work but I will post my latest setup that uses Burnout for a double Gang War, Lightning Storm and Tornado start. Could probably drop a pylon in 30 seconds.

How does pets accuracy play into this? I'm not familiar with MMs. Do the pets get a level shift? I know pylons con at +2, so are they as effective against +4 targets?

[Maxzero]

1 hour ago, Dismiss said:

How does pets accuracy play into this? I'm not familiar with MMs. Do the pets get a level shift? I know pylons con at +2, so are they as effective against +4 targets?

 

I know the Alpha level shift applies at all times.

 

Unfortunately you don't get the Incarnate only level shifts (that bring all pets up to you Incarnate level so 51-53).

 

So in RWZ you should have level 49 tier 1s, level 50 tier 2s and level 51 Tier 3s.

 

Anyway here is the latest build. Yes it +5s a lot of IOs, some probably give very marginal benefit but I do it anyway. Yes it is very expensive merit wise.

 

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Hits like an absolute train. Proc's all over the place. 350+ damage on the ST hold, 190+ damage on the AoE would be even more if I didn't have a -res in there but it's worth it. The +recharge in the tier 1 attack only need to proc every couple of minutes to be worth.

 

Pets are softcapped Def to all of course (its why I like it over the Demon/Storm build). Ageless is 100% required to manage end use.

 

You can be CCed and you have a psi hole but unlike Troller you can Immo enemies so it does not run out of AoE and does not rely on Containment for damage.

 

This is a real 100% functional build I have on Excelsior. Need to finish +5 everything though.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Maxzero

[jagspowar]

On 4/21/2020 at 11:37 AM, Maxzero said:

All Ill/ Controllers are fine solo. Invincible pets plus defense buffs makes you pretty damn safe.

 

The main issue on why on moved back to MMs from Trollers was:

 

1) Ill does not have a spammable Immo so enemies run out of your AoEs.

 

2) Outside of PA Ill is lacking in real game changing abilities.

Interesting. I'd definitely still be interested in your Ill/Storm build out of curiosity to give it a shot on the test server (once I figure out how to log into it) so I can compare to the mastermind and see how I like the gameplay differences. Thanks for sharing your MM build!

 

On 4/21/2020 at 4:37 AM, nihilii said:

[[EDIT]] After thinking further about those too-good-to-be-true numbers, I'm pretty sure I had amplifiers on. Will have to retest for sure.

 

Is this in reference to your Fire/Atomic blaster or your StJ/Rad brute? Would still love to see that blaster build (or something viable in the main game) since I'm awful at cobbling any together.

[nihilii]

11 hours ago, jagspowar said:

Is this in reference to your Fire/Atomic blaster or your StJ/Rad brute? Would still love to see that blaster build (or something viable in the main game) since I'm awful at cobbling any together.

This was in reference to the StJ/Rad brute. 🙂

 

Here's the Fire/Atomic build

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[nihilii]

Demon/Cold/Mu Mastermind
Musc T3, Reactive Radial T3 (old character, need to work on Degen), Ageless T4

Attack chain is a mix of Corruption, Lash, Infridigate, Electric Shackles and Electrifying Fences, all fairly procced out

 

Pets

1:15 = 639 DPS

 

No pets

4:33 = 268 DPS

Pretty happy with this so far. I've always struggled with MMs because the DPS feels too conditional, and the level of challenge I like to face wipes out pets too often. Being able to do ~200 to ~250 when things fall apart more or less meets midrange corruptor performance; making for decent contributions in hostile environments.

 

Not to mention, through cycling Rune of Protection and Melee Hybrid, resistance is hardcapped or close to it on most damage types (Mids inflates the numbers for demon shields somehow, but they're still pretty good).

 

Build

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		|A94E12A65A24A895694D2A45CFE5F2024CD5A5B79C34BEB16B24A6C0DE214DF2B9A|
		|24ADE3D45637B8A1F71F84FFA65EDBC169877DE5AAA5C3BAF511DDFA28ADEB787D4|
		|CB73EEE2BFFEA4BE3764A87DC78CE58B4E16AC2B46E7D59B7BEA45BFF03FF410F76|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by nihilii

[jagspowar]

 

10 hours ago, nihilii said:

Here's the Fire/Atomic build

Thank you! I'll give this a shot on the test server and compare to my fire/rad.

[oldskool]

I've been tinkering with a few Sentinel changes lately... 

DP/SR and AR/SR.  Both similarly designed and both using 5 procs in Tashibishi (caltrops).  

This was done with a few rounds inbetween work assignments so the times are as close as I could record while juggling my attention (its give or take some seconds). 😝

 

DP/SR (T2 Musculature only), Approximately 6 minutes or 360 seconds for roughly 234 DPS

AR/SR (same) Approximately 8 minutes or 480 seconds for roughly 207 DPS

 

DP use: Executioner's Shot - Pistols* - Suppressive Fire - Pistols* 

AR use: Incinerator - Burst* - Slug - Burst*  

 

Pistols/Burst swapped with Tashibishi, heal inspires (as needed) or Aim in the case of AR.  

Neither of these began with their respective T9's as that wasn't the point of what I wanted to see.  I just wanted to see how Tashibishi would alter things with 4 damage procs and a resistance debuff.  The results are hilarious... 

Edit: All attacks used in the chain run at least 2 damage procs plus 1 utility where applicable.  Suppressive Fire uses an additional damage proc due to my preferences.  Put the time estimations in which I forgot. 

Edited April 23, 2020 by oldskool

[Bill Z Bubba]

Figured I should ask this here.

Claws/SR Brute: 4:48

Fire/Bio Sent: 5:15 (Attack chain is not optimized.)

Claws/SR Tank: 5:22

 

Tank and brute builds are damn near as identical as can be. Did tanks get overbuffed?

 

Late edit: Swapped out assault radial for assault core and improved by 6 seconds. Thought conventional wisdom was that radial was better for those with AT mods under 1.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Microcosm]

Trying some more bio stalkers since I ended up liking the ice/bio, procced to the gills.

 

Stj/Bio, T4 Musc Core, T4 Ageless Core, T4 Degen Core, T4 Pyro Core, T4 Assault Core (off)

AS SB SC SS AS CU SB MB (only 2 combo points for CU)
1:37
1:44

 

AS SC SS SB AS CU MB SB
1:30
1:32
1:43 (bad timing)
1:43 (bad timing)

 

AS MB SS SB AS CU SC SB
1:57 terrible, guessing not all -res procs before cu

 

AS SB SC HB AS CU SB MB
1:46 (offensive adapt was off..)
1:43

 

AS SB SC HB AS CU MB HB
1:48

 

Did not think that second chain would do the best because it's a cone after AS, but the procs change things I guess. Have to say this one was squishier than the Ice (makes sense) and has much worse AoE; not really a fan.

 

-----------

 

DB/Bio, same incarnates

AS AB SS DB AB AS DB SS AB DB
1:39
1:27
1:43 (bad run)
1:50 (worse run)
1:43 (ok run)

 

AS AB SS PS (more guile procs?)
1:45
2:13 woooow bad, use other chain

 

Much safer (better knockdowns if you can aim a cone, and able to fit genetic corruption) and the AoE is better. 1:27 is the best time I've gotten on a stalker, and it's been with this one and surprisingly the ice/bio. The damage is better than my DB/elec, but not by enough that I want to switch.

 

 

[nihilii]

7 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Tank and brute builds are damn near as identical as can be. Did tanks get overbuffed?

It feels that way, to an extent. I think the playerbase overvalues damage and undervalues survivability - and I say this as someone who pushes for near max damage on every build.

Kinda crazy we generally accept "lose a % of the damage to have several times the survivability" as balanced. I get the argument you only need as much survivability as to survive the content you face. At the same time, extra survivability even in easy content can translate into not having to take defensive measures you might have to otherwise, and ergo more damage.

 

Claws is probably on the extreme side of the Tanker/Brute balance curve, in that Follow Up +dam is about twice as good for a Tanker than it is on a Brute to start with, Fury and all. But still. Tankers got a lot out of the last buffs. I don't think I've played a Brute since then, save for my StJ/Rad/Soul - which is somewhat on the other side of the balance equation in being able to hardcap resistance through Meltdown + Melee (but then, the similar Tanker could just cruise by on their toggle resistances and grab Musculature + Hybrid...).

[Bopper]

19 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Tank and brute builds are damn near as identical as can be. Did tanks get overbuffed?

I don't understand. The design with the buffs were to have Tanks be 90% of Brutes damage and Brutes be 90% of Tanks survivability.

 

Your Brute is 261 DPS

Your Tank is 247 DPS

 

You achieved about 94-95% of that in a single sample. That seems within the range of outcomes for how the sets are designed to scale.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Bopper said:

I don't understand. The design with the buffs were to have Tanks be 90% of Brutes damage and Brutes be 90% of Tanks survivability.

 

Your Brute is 261 DPS

Your Tank is 247 DPS

 

You achieved about 94-95% of that in a single sample. That seems within the range of outcomes for how the sets are designed to scale.

 

If that was the goal, then cool. Would I agree that my Claws/SR brute has 90% the survivability as my SR/Claws tank? I don't know. They're both pretty damn awesome.

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

If that was the goal, then cool. Would I agree that my Claws/SR brute has 90% the survivability as my SR/Claws tank? I don't know. They're both pretty damn awesome.

It certainly was, although given the increase in max targets and AoE I'm not really sure. But apparently play testing in regular content has shown Brutes doing nearly 10% more than tanks

[Sir Myshkin]

9 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Would I agree that my Claws/SR brute has 90% the survivability as my SR/Claws tank? I don't know.

To be fair, Super Reflexes only has three survivability builds: Dead, 45% Defense, and 59% Defense. Any other shared set however would be a lot more apparent given the base values that Tankers start at compared to Brutes, and the extra effort involved to get them to the same goal line.