Pylon Damage Thread

[MunkiLord]

Is it possible to custom create an AV with no regen? Taking regen out of the equation altogether seems like it would simplify things. 

[Werner]

55 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Should I dust off the old Survival Spreadsheet? I’m sure I have that Excel file around here somewhere...

I have it, or at least my version of it. I'm still using it sometimes for fine tuning and for comparing very similar builds. But it's missing a lot of things that matter - active mitigation, status protection, defense debuff resistance, other debuff resistance, the different distribution of damage types in incarante content vs. regular content, a good way to easily account for the changing buffs of some incarnate powers, how it's easier to survive if your set doesn't require constant clicking at just the right moment, how easily you benefit from team buffs if you team. Including all of that in a disciplined way would be very complicated. Not including it would be inaccurate. I'm doing more build tuning on my instincts than I probably used to. A bit off topic, I guess.

58 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

It’s been a while since I’ve messed with AE, but curious if it wouldn’t be possible to make one with all the Praetorians tossed in to hand pick them out of a single mission for testing.  

I've not messed with it, but I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, or at least that you could toss in a lot of them at once. If you do please let us know. I want to know if my farmer can solo AVs under Scrapper challenge rules, but I've been too lazy to run the Praetorian arcs again. At least I know I have sufficient DPS, even if it isn't stellar.

[Sir Myshkin]

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

Is it possible to custom create an AV with no regen? Taking regen out of the equation altogether seems like it would simplify things.

Unfortunately the whole point was a dual purpose of "can I take down an AV level target" and, subsequently, give us a general idea of DPS on a character. The odd nature of a how a Pylon recoups its HP is what makes the equation a bit wonky. Everything in the game has some kind of naturally reoccurring Regen rate, so there's no path for removing that option (that I'm aware of).

 

Something I personally would like to maybe see would be an effectual in-game tool to help extract that value, like the Test Dummies in RWZ and how they can be attacked forever and never "die". Turn it into one of those strength testers you see at a carnival, except it spits out a "current DPS" instead. It wouldn't even necessarily need to be something retrofitted, but something we could drop into a base, or an item we could uniquely spawn.

 

1 hour ago, Werner said:

I have it, or at least my version of it.

I've only shared it (at this point) with one other person I know who wanted to better grasp the value impact of what that tool effectively measured (back then). Like you said, there's too many variables at this point.

 

1 hour ago, Werner said:

If you do please let us know.

I may take a look at it. My Tanker Proc Testing is on hold until the Justin Beta Server gets "Restored" to "Normal" so, I have a tiny bit of extra time.

[Frostweaver]

wasn't there a combat screen parser at some point in the distant past? You could use that on one of the 'farming' missions with EB's in order to get a decent idea of what kind of DPS you dish out against every kind of enemy, as well as groups.

[SmalltalkJava]

Beast/Nature MM.   

 

Killed it in 3 minutes 38 seconds.   I buffed up and sent the pets in.   I'll have to try again later, because i spent a good time after a knockdown without my leadership toggles on, I didn't realize that they had dropped.   I have no incarnates and didn't use any inspirations.

 

-- edit-- i tried it again 3 times.  The next times I ended up losing a wolf once or twice.   However, on the next runs I could only get the kill time to 3:51, 4:16, 4:02.   I think with wolves it depends on their buffing cycle and when it kicks in.   Additionally, since my personal attacks are just proc'd, it depends on if I get lucky with the proc.

 

Spoiler

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.3
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Beast Mastery
Secondary Power Set: Nature Affinity
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1:    Summon Wolves            SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(3), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(3), SlbAll-Acc/Rchg(5), SlbAll-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SlbAll-Build%(7)
Level 1:    Corrosive Enzymes        Acc-I(A)
Level 2:    Regrowth            HO:Golgi(A)
Level 4:    Wild Growth            ImpSki-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpSki-ResDam/Rchg(9), ImpSki-EndRdx/Rchg(11), ImpSki-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), ImpSki-Status(13)
Level 6:    Train Beasts            EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8:    Hasten                RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 10:    Spore Cloud            DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(15), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(15), DarWtcDsp-Slow%(17)
Level 12:    Summon Lions            SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-Dmg(17), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(19), CaltoArm-Acc/Rchg(19), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg(21), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21)
Level 14:    Combat Jumping            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(23)
Level 16:    Lifegiving Spores        Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(23), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(25), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Prv-Heal/Rchg(27), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(27)
Level 18:    Fortify Pack            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 20:    Wild Bastion            Pnc-Heal(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(29), Pnc-Heal/+End(29), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(31), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(31)
Level 22:    Call Hawk            FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 24:    Maneuvers            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(33), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(33), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(33), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFrt-EndRdx(34)
Level 26:    Summon Dire Wolf        SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(36), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(37)
Level 28:    Tactics                GssSynFr--Build%(A), AdjTrg-ToHit(37), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(37), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(39), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(39), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(39)
Level 30:    Kick                Hct-Dam%(A)
Level 32:    Tame Beasts            EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35:    Entangling Aura            UnbCns-Hold(A), UnbCns-Hold/Rchg(40), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold(40), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg(40), UnbCns-Dam%(42), Lck-%Hold(42)
Level 38:    Overgrowth            AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(42), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(43), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(43), AdjTrg-Rchg(43)
Level 41:    Tough                StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), StdPrt-ResKB(45), GldArm-3defTpProc(45)
Level 44:    Weave                LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(45), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(46), RedFrt-EndRdx(46), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), RedFrt-Def(48)
Level 47:    Scorpion Shield            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(48), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(48), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(50), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50), RedFrt-EndRdx(50)
Level 49:    Call Swarm            Apc-Dam%(A)
Level 1:    Brawl                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Dash        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Slide        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Quick        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Rush        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Surge        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Sprint                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Supremacy    
Level 2:    Rest                Empty(A)
Level 4:    Ninja Run    
Level 2:    Swift                Empty(A)
Level 2:    Health                Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(7)
Level 2:    Hurdle                Empty(A)
Level 2:    Stamina                PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(9)

 

------------

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Edited September 5, 2019 by SmalltalkJava

[Eva Destruction]

I threw together a quick AE arc with all the Praetorian AVs.  "Praetorian Invasion! (AV-soloing test)", Arc ID #15220.  They're accompanied by War Works, they're all the old versions of the AVs because I couldn't find the new ones. destroying the generator completes the mission because I don't know how AE rewards work anymore, and there's a 1-hour timer in case people want to time themselves.  Feedback appreciated.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, Eva Destruction said:

I threw together a quick AE arc with all the Praetorian AVs.  "Praetorian Invasion! (AV-soloing test)", Arc ID #15220.  They're accompanied by War Works, they're all the old versions of the AVs because I couldn't find the new ones. destroying the generator completes the mission because I don't know how AE rewards work anymore, and there's a 1-hour timer in case people want to time themselves.  Feedback appreciated.

Ran it at +1/x8 w/ bosses and AVs so they'd be even-con with BZB - Scrapper. Finished with 9:05 left on the clock, zero faceplants. Nice map and mission.

 

Also, HI, EVA D!

[nihilii]

7 hours ago, Eva Destruction said:

I threw together a quick AE arc with all the Praetorian AVs.  "Praetorian Invasion! (AV-soloing test)", Arc ID #15220.  They're accompanied by War Works, they're all the old versions of the AVs because I couldn't find the new ones. destroying the generator completes the mission because I don't know how AE rewards work anymore, and there's a 1-hour timer in case people want to time themselves.  Feedback appreciated.

Great idea, great mission, great map choice.

I ran it using the same parameters as Bill (+1/x8 bosses and AVs) on my fire/rad/psi sentinel.

I used insps as they dropped, click accolades (Magus really), Hybrid and Lore (Cimerorans Core). I think it makes sense to use all renewable tools at your disposal, as this is a "real" and lengthy mission - so anything that can go on downtime, will go on downtime.

22:10 left on the clock, 0 deaths although it came close a couple times. Gotta watch those accidental Vorpal pulls, the cone is so wide and deep it's easy to aggro another group behind the group you're attacking.

 

My one suggestion would be to change the timer to 2 hours. Some builds might take longer than 1 hour to defeat 16 AVs.

It'd be cool to see this arc become an alternate standard. Although, of course, a lot more variables come into play than simply running an attack chain at an immobile target (including playstyle specifics), so it won't be as easy to derive meaningful build stats between different players. Either way, I think I'll run it with several alts and compare my own results if nothing else.

 

Thanks for building this. 🙂

[SmalltalkJava]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

It'd be cool to see this arc become an alternate standard

Alternate standards can certainly be useful in measuring in game performance.  Three are so many different variables that come into play even regarding measuring raw dps.   An AT with -regen will have an advantage on regen AV's, just from having that one debuff.    There are other things also, but alternate standards are useful in measuring performance.   We just have to make sure that what we are measuring remains well defined.

[nihilii]

#15220 run with stj/bio/soul scrapper, +1/x8 bosses AVs, insps and Lore (Longbow Core T3) used - ~29:00 left on the clock.

I would have thought having no AoEs in the build would hinder speed, compared to my sentinel who uses Inferno and Fireball liberally; especially as warworks are content to stay at range.But AVs are such damage sponges, the occasional Judgement is more than enough to clear everything but bosses.

The only real hurdle this character faced was Marauder and his unbelievably good smashing resistance.

 

A second suggestion for @Eva Destruction: make all objectives mandatory. I destroyed the generator while Marauder was in Unstoppable to save time, and got the "mission complete" to my dismay (clock was at 31:22).

Incidentally, this mission is great XP! At least for me, it's captivating enough to run tests I don't feel like I'm grinding. A +1/x8 clear will give you a full level of XP if you have patrol XP.

Edited September 6, 2019 by nihilii

[Eva Destruction]

Okay so now that I've put some actual thought into this mission, I've updated it a bit.

 

Nihilii is right, the generator is too easy to accidentally destroy.  I put it in so you could get mission complete rewards if you couldn't defeat all the AVs, but I'm not sure they even have those anymore, and having the timer is more important for a test, which ultimately this is.  So it's gone now, and the mission will complete when you defeat all the AVs.

 

The timer is now 2 hours.

 

I've also changed all the enemy groups to "medium" difficulty rather than "easy," so there are more dudes for builds that do better when surrounded by dudes.  My DM/SD bias is showing.  This means two Vickies per spawn, and a few more robot dudes.  People who don't like lots of dudes can always turn down their difficulty.

 

Also, HI BILL!

[Sir Myshkin]

1 hour ago, Eva Destruction said:

Nihilii is right, the generator is too easy to accidentally destroy.  I put it in so you could get mission complete rewards if you couldn't defeat all the AVs, but I'm not sure they even have those anymore, and having the timer is more important for a test, which ultimately this is.  So it's gone now, and the mission will complete when you defeat all the AVs.

 

The timer is now 2 hours.

 

I've also changed all the enemy groups to "medium" difficulty rather than "easy," so there are more dudes for builds that do better when surrounded by dudes.  My DM/SD bias is showing.  This means two Vickies per spawn, and a few more robot dudes.  People who don't like lots of dudes can always turn down their difficulty.

Now if only we could use this on the test server as well, but sadly they (with considerable reason) have the AE "Server" turned off on Beta.

 

Could you not include a glowie as a mission complete tool instead of a destructible item? I know this used to be an option originally. Depending on AE settings for the player, when standard XP rewards are toggled, it is still possible to get "rewards" as normal, so that might still be nice versus having people who can't complete it, having to drop it instead.

[Eva Destruction]

53 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Could you not include a glowie as a mission complete tool instead of a destructible item? I know this used to be an option originally. Depending on AE settings for the player, when standard XP rewards are toggled, it is still possible to get "rewards" as normal, so that might still be nice versus having people who can't complete it, having to drop it instead.

I could do that!  I just did that!  Hopefully also made it clear that clicking it will complete the mission.

 

[TheAdjustor]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Now if only we could use this on the test server as well, but sadly they (with considerable reason) have the AE "Server" turned off on Beta.

 

 

No it's on and works. I just used it a few minutes ago.

[Sir Myshkin]

4 hours ago, TheAdjustor said:

No it's on and works. I just used it a few minutes ago.

It wasn't turned on before they adjusted the server for the move to a "live" release, I checked to see for similar reasons to what we're talking about (testing purposes). It might've gotten switched on temporarily as part of the transition to "live." I'll check it again once they revert and see.

[jshmoe1236123]

After adding more Incarnate tiers I figured it was time for more runs.  

 

Courageous Girl

TW/Bio

 

T4 Alpha Musculature Core

T4 Hybrid Assault Core

T3 Destiny Ageless Partial Core

T4 Interface Degenerative Core

 

Runs:

1 - 1:08

2 - 1:04

3 - 1:08

4 - 1:02

5 - 1:03

6 - 1:06

7 - 1:02

8 - 1:05

9 - 1:07

10 - 1:04

 

 

I don't know how much of a difference it will be once I get the T4 Destiny, but I'll certainly be running again once I have it.  Either way, I'm happy with the results.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by jshmoe1236123
Clarification on times

[Bill Z Bubba]

@jshmoe1236123 Are those times in minutes? Cuz that's freaking outstanding. Average 39 seconds for a pylon? That would put your DPS at 1111. Is this even possible?

 

[MunkiLord]

Pretty sure those are in seconds, he messaged me earlier to share them with me. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

Pretty sure those are in seconds, he messaged me earlier to share them with me. 

So 65 sec average? That's still 718 dps. My best claws/bio time so far is 390 dps.

[Tsuko]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

So 65 sec average? That's still 718 dps. My best claws/bio time so far is 390 dps.

this should be with assault on

[jshmoe1236123]

9 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

@jshmoe1236123 Are those times in minutes? Cuz that's freaking outstanding. Average 39 seconds for a pylon? That would put your DPS at 1111. Is this even possible?

 

Sorry for the confusion.  Those are in seconds.  Man, I wish I could break the game and get 1111 DPS!

[Bill Z Bubba]

I think you ARE breaking the game! Ok, time for me to see what I can do with that claws/bio if I build for a single purpose. Awesome stuff, yall.

[jshmoe1236123]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I think you ARE breaking the game! Ok, time for me to see what I can do with that claws/bio if I build for a single purpose. Awesome stuff, yall.

I built for one purpose, too.  To inflict as much damage as possible on anything or anyone around me.  

[Xingularity]

On 9/6/2019 at 8:05 AM, nihilii said:

#15220 run with stj/bio/soul scrapper, +1/x8 bosses AVs, insps and Lore (Longbow Core T3) used - ~29:00 left on the clock.

I would have thought having no AoEs in the build would hinder speed, compared to my sentinel who uses Inferno and Fireball liberally; especially as warworks are content to stay at range.But AVs are such damage sponges, the occasional Judgement is more than enough to clear everything but bosses.

The only real hurdle this character faced was Marauder and his unbelievably good smashing resistance.

 

A second suggestion for @Eva Destruction: make all objectives mandatory. I destroyed the generator while Marauder was in Unstoppable to save time, and got the "mission complete" to my dismay (clock was at 31:22).

Incidentally, this mission is great XP! At least for me, it's captivating enough to run tests I don't feel like I'm grinding. A +1/x8 clear will give you a full level of XP if you have patrol XP.

Hey Nihilii, I've got a Stj/Bio stalker, and you've mentioned you've got a different setup on your scrapper, would you be willing to post? I'm interested in seeing how you've got it set up. 🙂

[nihilii]

Hey Xingularity,

Here's my StJ/bio/soul build:
 

Spoiler

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