SwitchFade

Hello. Isn't the weather nice? That's a very nice outfit you have. Do you like coffee? I sure do. No vote. I also enjoy a cookie, from time to time. And I love cheesecake. Well, have a great day 🤪

This is materially inaccurate.

While I understand your perspective, because I encounter it daily at work, it's pretty par for course in regards to how people react to their individual interaction with a system. By that, I mean it's valid for only perceiving one section as a user. This is by no means derogatory, it's very normal. The short version is, how you're seeing it, while I disagree because I know there are significantly more factors at work in the examples you gave, is valid because you're an end user. The issue that really persisted before was, the original team was negotiating the build of a new system, doing completely new things, unused to interfacing with users in their language and there was internal division over the vision. That said, the system evolution was not one of "they ignored their own design," as I could give numerous examples of why status effects were left exactly as they are and why it is actually well balanced. It may seem that there was no long term system design or forethought, but I can assure you that there was, or the system would not have sirvived, it would have actually cratered. Daily, I am forced to not explain why I make system design choices to users, as the explanation would require not only inordinate amounts of time, it would require that they had the capability to do what I do. I'm not saying this applies to you, I'm saying this is most likely why most of the information about how and why they designed the way they did went unshared. Probably best to digress so we can leave the thread for RoP feedback from others besides you, me and others who have already had our say. I'm happy to discuss via pm though, as your perspective is well respected by me 😄

Every person I've worked with who doubts just how complex system design is is always dismissive... Right up to the point their misconceptions and assumptions cause the system to fail in ways they hadn't even anticipated and they realize just how complex and nuanced it is. It may seem like embellishment, all I can say is, from my lengthy vocational experience, it's not.

There is so much hyperbole we're swimming in, it's hard to know where the shore is.... So many fundamental concepts of system design are being ignored in this debate, by the players, to such a degree that it's actually a bit astonishing. System architecture is within my bailiwick, as a large portion of the disgusting number of hours I spend working encompass system architecture from concept to launch. When we speak of systems, this means any interdependently functioning, interlocking set of actions, activities and/or processes and functions that are set up, used, observed or operated. CoH is a dynamic system. Like all systems, it must have rules, steps, processes, laws and structure, in order to function. No system can exist without these. Make no mistake, the talent that works on this system is not just good, they are, I would wager dollars to donuts, among the best in their respective arenas. From observing the system that the OG teambuilt, that the current team improved on, the people that work on this system are certainly leaders within their fields and innovators. That said, speaking of the system the work on and the rules of it... While these rules/laws are not immutable, the greater and more complex the system is, the more rigid and difficult it will be to alter those rules. As structure is built on top of structure, the foundational pieces become increasingly inelastic, with increasingly lesser degrees of mobility for change. Eventually, they reach perfect inelasticity, where they cannot change, without every structure superior being destroyed. For example, computers use gates that are either open, or closed. 1 or 0. Binary. This, currently, cannot be changed. If one were to ask for CoH not observe this basic rule... Sorry, can't happen. Every basic law of a system is foundational. For example, SOs are the balance point. This will likely not change, ever, nor should it. SOs and basic IOs are homogeneous in their function, the effect something by a percentage increase. Set IOs are heterogeneous and segregated by nature, they cannot be a balance point, as one doesn't exist. This rule is nearly, in my opinion, perfecty inelastic, a change here would be wholesale carnage. Another example being thrown about... A hero is roughly equivilant to 3 even-con minions at launch as a balance point, and, maybe still. Or maybe not due to power creep. Either way, even this basic design rule was a substructure to everything that came after it, and altering it would alter every other system that was created or balanced with this rule in mind. Should a hero be considered equivilant to 3 minions? If not, what would a change impact? The vast nuance is daunting. Another example, "this game has been flawed for a very long time, squishies suffer from mez while others don't, that's bad." My position on this is clear; however, from a system perspective, this is bedrock. Even attempting to alter the fundamental way status works would have a drastic bullwhip effect on EVERYTHING. Make no mistake, ideas like 90 seconds is fine, give everyone a way to achieve status protection like a scrap, change the fundamental nature of how status effects were designed, change it from binary to non, exempt from follow up status effects.... These are not just big changes, they are core system altering. Every other interdependent rule would be altered. Here are just a few... Blaster damage scale: reduced Controller containment: removed Defender buff values: reduced Movement speed changed Threat generation values altered Aggro cap lowered Spawn locations moved Specialized MOBs remade Powers durations and effects rebalanced Missions rewritten Entire ATs redifined Powers completely altered This is just the start. All the underlying processes that govern how these interact would have to be changed, rebalanced, rewritten or completely removed and done again. This system is an elegant one and well balanced. Status effects are not nearly as terrible as some are lamenting and how the game has functioned for 27 issues is largely done very well. The change to RoP was one that would have been done before launch, on live, and is well balanced within the system. Yay textwall. Anyone doubting... I invite you to attempt system design on something like.... Oracle. *Wink* it's a bit complex 🤪

Sweet baby dirt-napping jebus. Stop the madness.

It's been discussed, but to sum... Status effects are a a core tenant of the game's design. Certain ATs, squishies, are affected by status protection, by design. These ATs should not be capable of invalidating an entire core premise of the game. These ATs have significant powers and abilities as part of this design and balance. RoP was significantly overtuned, allowing it to achieve very high levels of status effect negation, reaching 100% in many cases. The need to adjust was clear. Other discussions about the remaining powers in pools, sets, T9s, etc... Are important, but outside the scope of the pointed issue with RoP. It was not changed due to other factors, merely it's current level of power and the fact it was in unfinished and unreleased on live and should never have been as powerful as it is.

It's always been a core game design that squishies do not get status protection wholesale, having other factors as compensation.

30% resist in a vacuum is poor mitogation. For example, a tank with 30% resist would be very delicate. The nature of resist demonstrates that resist becomes effective over 60%. In fact, the difference between 60 and 70% is a huge decrease in damage taken, where the difference in 30-40% is meager. Due to this, 30% from RoP is only good if it can put you over 60% total, and that's the real issue. A squishy, in most cases, will not have a base 30-40% to start and any build that did get that would sacrifice too much in other areas, such as defense, offense, etc, generally. Additionally, certain combinations of sets which could get 40% base resist, then add 30% RoP resist.... AND 90-100% uptime with RoP and one other power for status protection.... Very overtuned.

It's been discussed numerous times. Every power would need new animations.

Pride goeth before the fall... Pyrrhic victory... Nose to spite the face.. What, exactly, is the point of the continuance of this?

Void skiff working with other powers, I think, would need new animations

And faster animation

My initial vote: first build where fly+evm=old fly+ab was good, leave it there. Due to how unwilling so many are to listen to logic, reason and facts and how ungrateful the feedback has been... I say, put it back to how live is now and let people enjoy what they have been blindly advocating. Push the beta changes to leap and speed to live once debugged, revert any change to fly and leave it how it is now. Let them fully enjoy how it is now.

You know, I don't get much time to play recently, but when I've tried..... Something has changed, or I'm just getting a run of bad luck. The last 3 sessions, I get into the absolute worst teams I've been on with ultra disrespectful people. A goddamned brute teleporting the team constantly and yelling "deal with it or die" when half the team asked him to stop. The team lead then said "I'm just a dumb hoe, I cant stop him." Another team, another damned brute running all over trying to map aggro supertank, and won't stop even when asked, taunting and running off and spreading MOBs everywhere... ANOTHER team, multiple controllers that just spam aoe immob, lock down groups all spaced out, ignoring the team... A gravity something something.... Wormholing everything AWAY from the group after they gather. When asked about it, "lol" was the reply I mean, the worst behavior I've encountered in a string since HC launched. I'm disgusted. Not by the way people play, by their absolute disrespect when the team talks to them. It's as if everyone who wants to be punched in the neck is on and playing this week.

Squeeee. Tell us more 🤪

As discussed in multiple threads before this one, that wouldn't be practical, as not all factions scale that way, due to powers abilities, etc...

I giggle when I see these threads. Please forgive me. Kind of like when your pal trips and party-foulsl faceplants, you snicker first, then help them up. Why? Well, here's an example... Lvl 43ish team in PI... I join on my 50 blaster. Were fighting contact missions, I forget which. It's at +2. "Does the team want higher?" The scrap team lead asks, someone notes there are 3 scraps, a blast, a brute and support. "Uh, I can solo this if needed," I reply. Set to +4 and off we go. I can see it's a casual team, I'm one of two 700+ million inf build, crammed to the gills with uberleet goodnessnacks and there are some middling io builds. We do fine. I alpha, because iBlap rolls like that, and the team is hot on my heals. I hit insps, because even a 700mill blap build is not a scrap and I take hits. Big hits. HP see-saws all over for many and it's plenty challenging, because they're fighting +5s. But it's fine, I can rescue people if needed by absolutely unloading on the random +5 boss harassing a Casual SO 43. Then we get to Adamastor at +4 setting. Funny thing, the mission has the usually smattering of +1 on top of the +4 setting. So, I'm fighting +5s and the SKs are fighting +6s. It's tough, nearly impossible on a careless team, Support is pushed to the limit keeping debuffs up and people going and everyone is faceplanting. iBlap is just gobs of AoA as a water/elec and I'm still running alpha, but very, VERY carefully vs Pantheon. They wreck my softcap in seconds and if I don't kill them first, I go down in another 3 seconds. Which I did once or twice. They we get to Adamastor. He's +6 to the SKs, +5 to me. I dove in, we try, and we wipe. Someone says "we can't do this +6 is impossible, there's no way, let's reset." "Wait wait," I reply, in good faith, "everyone rez and hit the hosp, don't alt out or hit, just come back here. I'm going to alt to Pennie pebbles, re-invire me." I switch out to Pennie, 50 earth/storm controller. Who's also stuffed to the rim with Brim® When I get back, the brute and I bum rush Adamastor, the brute holds as much aggro as he can while I roll up and throw down the good sauce debuffage that an Earth/Storm is capable of, and we proceed to hand Adamastor his undead booty, because his defense, tohit and recharge are in the toilet the team is doing the right work, and support is working overtime keeping us standing. So, purple patch can kiss my controller behind, because I we were able to sit on a +6 Adamastor with his cronies in tow, and we were able to bring him down and his goon squad. Softcap didn't matter, +6 didn't matter, what mattered was teamwork, tactical play and common sense. So the next thread you see complaining that the game is too hard or easy and there's a quick fix, or that controllers are pointless because softcap blahblah, or that the brute makes the defender pointless.... I argue the game is balanced well, because we got our asses handed to us at +4 trying to afkroll with 3 of us we'll over softcap, but regrouped, got tactical, brought in the right support for the job and MMoTeamworked it.

Answer: I can blast someone in the face with a heavy right cross. iBlap.

Hmmm. Let me clean this OP up... Change aggro cap Change EM Remove CoV Return the game to i3.5 (because i4 had travel suppression) I think..... This may not be the game for you 😜 as it is, it seems like you dislike everything about the game.

I know, pie is tasty, amarite?!

Yeah. Softcap is teh haxorz... Right up until the point a Ralaruu boss eyeballs you. Or Nemesis venge stack... Or arachnos buff and debuff... Or those damned floaty drones with tohit... Or carnies... Or longbow... Or vanguard... Or pantheon debuffs... Or cimeroran debuffs... So, all the high level factions have a nasty way of making softcap defense on nearly everything but SR melt like butter. So yeah, join us in the shadow shard 🤪

Well, a Hard no vote would be akin to a covalent bond, where a no vote would be akin to a polar bond. A hesitant no would be like na ionic bond and a just no-but-can-be-swayed would be a hydrogen bond. But this all only applies below 88 miles we hour, because after that the flux capacitor kicks in and we have to get back from somewhere, without disrupting the spacetime thingie. I'll see your odd mood and raise you a weird place 🤤🤪

I'm very sorry, I cannot support this. Hard no vote.

Edit: to add, I'm not convinced that there isn't enough incentive, vs the consequences of such a change.