oldskool

Because we're talking about my favorite set, I'll keep chiming in. (hah!) Obligatory warning on Tactics and Gaussian's: The Build-Up proc technically has a chance to trigger in the realm of 2%(?) but since all procs have a minimum chance of 5% that's as low as it will go. That's just for you personally. In a group that chance will swell because each member increases the odds the event will happen. The set bonus itself is understandable due to its positional bonus and all that. However, I just want to toss out the info here just in case other new players see this and think that their damage will be as it is reflected in Mid's (spoiler, it won't be). Dual Pistols has inherently high accuracy in its attacks and it shouldn't be that tough to get to 95% to-hit vs 54's through brute force of inflated accuracy. Things like the Kismet and Tactics are nice to have but they can also be replaced for those lesser mortals running the pauperish 75% baseline.

Real talk... My DP/Nin does this. I do in fact have Caltrops (I have Swap Ammo - I can't live without it) and I combine it as my opener with Hail of Bullets out of Stealth. You can either open with 'Trops or use it as a follow-up after Hail of Bullets. Keep in mind, part of the "bonus" of standard ammo on Hail of Bullets is guaranteed knockdown. Swapping away from standard removes a portion of that chance (it doesn't completely go away). Opening from stealth with Hail of Bullets is about as safe of game play as it gets. Opening with Dark Blast's Blackstar from stealth and a Tidal Forces backed Geyser is also equally hilarious stuff.

Its a fair point, @drbuzzard.

I won't be able to get to a copy of Pines until Friday. Then I will probably post one way of skinning this cat. For my DP/Nin, I literally made a "blank" for the secondary. That is that I applied the exact same slotting and enhancement logic to several other primaries. It worked for that experiment. I did the same with SR too. As @Lockpick notes, yes, I do encourage those playing any defensive oriented set (Nin, SR, even Energy Aura to an extent) to try to get to the soft-cap within the secondary plus pool powers (sub in the Epics if you like Link Minds). That will free up the primary to include procs which are a damage increase. BUT some people don't like random chances at damage which is totally fair. I'll disagree with @drbuzzard about what is optimal or not. I know that my own preference is towards the Musculature Alpha, but (and its a big but) I recognize the value of other Alpha slots options. The reason why I tend to favor Musculature is because it offers a direct damage increase with generally no downside. Agility/Spiritual do have an impact on PPM calculations but this only matters if you are running procs (as in multiple in a single power). This is an important factor for PPM calculations with Dual Pistols because the set does have multiple powers with Arcanatime activations of 1.848 (or less) and a recharge of no more than 12 seconds for the last single-target attack available (Piercing Rounds is a bit special and requires its own discussion). So for my purposes I want 0 recharge in my attacks. I built enough global recharge to run the attack chain I wanted, and enough defense to softcap the positionals. So in my case Agility offers me very little as I don't even need the endurance management. Spiritual doesn't offer me enough either for similar reasons. Cardiac doesn't boost my resistance enough to make it worth it, and endurance isn't a problem. I could keep on going on the other Alpha slots, but by now you probably get the point. Musculature just makes the most sense in my case. The OP's build isn't really focused on procs (which is fine - whatever sets your sails) so something like Agility/Spiritual may be beneficial for whatever attack chain they are shooting for. So in the case of the OP's build, as it currently stands, then perhaps Agility would be a more optimal suggestion. Maybe.

It should only get better when you can add the purple set procs and Incarnates. I run 3x Thunderstrikes all +5 in Pistols, Executioner's Shot, and Suppressive Fire. Each of those also have 3 procs. Two of those are utility (Decimation's Build-Up, and Achilles' Heel). With Hasten I have enough recharge to just use those 3 attacks. The lack of Aim does make it struggle on burst so you won't get super amazing Pylon times (if you cared), but you can still get enough DPS for a 5-6 minute drop on that kind of testing. I'm happy with it.

Sentinel is the AT that I never knew I wanted. My first character ever was an Invul/EM Tanker followed by an AR/DEV Blaster. I scrapped both and made a Dark/Dark Scrapper and then a Dark/Dark Defender. When CoV came out I went with a Necro/Dark MM and never looked back. Then when Willpower was released I made an SS/WP Brute, a Sonic/Sonic Corruptor and finally a Huntsman build SOA. I dabbled in Widow but that Huntsman was a character that I played almost as much as my Brute. So I guess that VEATS were a basis for the ranged attack + defensive power combo that attracted me to the Sentinel. I tried Dual Pistols multiple times but never really found anything that clicked for me due to redraw. With the Sentinel it was finally time to try out some weapon sets with less active secondaries to give these power sets some play. After trying out Dual Pistols with Regen and Willpower I finally settled into Nin as a secondary. I played that almost exclusively to 50 on HC. That character has its Incarnates and IOs all done. I still brush the dust off and play it because its a fun character. After tinkering with other power combos, I finally settled into Beam/Bio Armor and Water Blast/Dark Armor as the only other Sentinels I actively care about. I've been slowly revisiting old power pairs that I played a long time ago, but most of them have become new takes on those characters. I have 2 characters that are the same in name only but their power combos now are more in line with what I wished they were when the game went live. One of those concepts dabbled as a Sentinel.

I won't say its not possible, but I will say I don't think it is worth it. Willpower does not easily get close to 40% defense to Smashing/Lethal. You need some slotting investment and specific IOs to pull that off. You can easily get into the upper 20's low 30's on the damage types on Willpower. WP is typed, not positional, and positional options on Sentinels are pretty much a dumpster fire without melee attacks or really heavy slotting on secondary powers. If you rely on the Incarnate system to cap you off, then that's a bit more forgiving but only applies in level 45+ content. Dual Pistols isn't really that special on softcapping. Hail of Bullets has a roughly 10% positional defense buff that lasts for 5 seconds on a 24-30+ cool down. Not reliable enough to make it a cornerstone of a build. Still, I won't say its impossible because some people are pretty damn creative.

I agree with the other stuff, but this is a great comment here. Just to add to it, when viewing what that 75% vs 70% secondary value translates to is really quite small. Its not insignificant, but its small. Super Reflexes between the two ATs on purely SO's have a difference of roughly 2% on the positional values. So shifting the Sentinel up by 5% in its defenses isn't actually an additive 5%. Furthermore, Sentinels do have lower values on EVERYTHING related to defense. Everything. That includes Defense Debuff Resistance (which is slightly lower than the Scrapper/Stalker/Brute version) as well as the mezz protection. Ninjutsu Bo Ryaku's KB/KD protection is lower on Sentinels than it is on Scrappers. Does a shift of 2% on defenses or +1.X KB/KD protection matter in the grand scheme of things? Not really. However, the design of it being that way speaks to something a bit broader than that. The Sentinels have lower defensive effects in their secondaries for what reason? Because they are ranged? As the post above, and several others constantly point out, there isn't a really good reason to do this. So for the sake of consistency across AT, let's have Sentinels with the same 75% values in their secondary. Damage balance is a complicated issue that would require a large realignment across AT if all of the DPA potential of range sets were to shift. That may happen at some point after enemy resistance values and melee set review happens. One thing I don't want to see is Sentinel getting some ad hoc +acc/to hit/perception buffs. There isn't that much use for that in this game, and Sentinel AT doesn't need it at all. We'd gain an inherent that helps everyone else with a snipe make use of faster sniper changes. God, what a kick in the crotch that would for an AT that designed snipes OUT of the power set! For the melee classes and *EATS it doesn't do that much either. I said this once, and I'll say it again. What's in a name? A bouncer at a club is a sentinel. Most of the time they stand watch and only take action when necessary. That isn't what I consider grounds for compelling game play. Sentinel means to stand and keep watch often by a soldier or a guard. Stand and do nothing and only intervene when necessary. Sounds like fun! Want something that moves ahead of a team and does something more frontlinish? Call it.. Vanguard. Stalkers already can scout. Trying to define balance by tripping over a name definition feels asinine. For the sake of the game if the Sentinel is going to be a DPS role, then make it a damn DPS role.

In general I prefer to focus on the -to hit and that extends to every AT I can get away with doing it on. I will consider the Fear IO set category because the bonuses are often pretty good but the duration of the CC isn't the reason. I think most of the fear powers in the game have access to more than just the fear sets so you can usually find something more worthwhile to invest in.

So what's decent? General advice: Dark Armor plays nicely with IOs and the more expensive you go the better it gets. Dark Armor gets a little weak on Energy and Toxic resistance once you start piling on IO sets. You can make up for that with 4x Shield Wall in defensive powers and Toxic is often paired with the rare IO sets as well as Psychic resist. There are the two resistance unique powers too that help a bit. Since DM has limited AoE options you're not in a great spot to add Eradication mules. That's OK though. Its really not that important. Dark Armor should be capping Smashing/Lethal/Negative/Psy by accident and possibly getting close to Fire/Cold too (if not capping it). The Rune of Protection in Sorcery is also a possible path to take for temporary increases to all resistances. Dark Melee on Stalkers is very limited on AoE damage having only Shadow Maul. The single-target damage however is quite good so lean into it. Soft-capping all defenses is going to be a challenge but Stalker DA can get into the upper 20's to low 30's with some planning. My Staff/DA has around 32% defense to melee/range/AoE (though AoE is a lot higher due to Hide). If you really want more defense you can go for Shadow Meld. The to-hit debuffs in your primary will give you stacking effects of miss chance on a target. Touch of Fear being a pretty large debuff to a single enemy. You can run both Cloak of Fear and Oppressive Gloom at the same time to generate more coverage of CC effects. You can also run neither of them if you like or just one. Cloak of Fear inherently has synergy with Dark Melee and Touch of Fear. Oppressive Gloom, not so much.

I loved my DM/DA back on live. It was my first 50. I started it up because it was such a black sheep back when toggles didn't stack and you could 6 slot recharge in Hasten. I just couldn't get back into that combination with Homecoming. The magic just isn't there for me. I've been pretty preoccupied with Sentinels, Controllers, Defenders, and Stalkers since the game has come back. If Stalkers count, then Street Justice/Super Reflexes is probably my favorite of the ones I have made. I've leveled several Tankers but now some of my interest has been coming back around to Scrappers. So I made a Dual Blades/Dark Armor that just works for what I want. It's been 50 for a while but I've been slowly working in the sets I want. I've tried playing DB on every melee AT. I've always loved the animations but never had a pairing that clicked until now. DB/DA maybe that inspirational magic I wanted. Its a character without Hasten (which is rare for me) but still has enough recharge to pull off Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals. BF -> AV is really all I want out of him anyway. Maybe one day I'll rebuild him for some extreme recharge to push something more deadly, but right now the simplicity of it all makes me happy.

I opted to keep using the gun versions of the attacks for my Crab. The only crab attacks I have are the melee which mostly mule things but the cone attack isn't too shabby when hitting multiple enemies.

It can stack up to 3 times. I often have that buff at 2 stacks but it can occasionally spike a 3rd.

"Screwing them out of their set bonus" - Don't you think that depends on specific builds vs generally? I have multiple Sentinel builds now and skipping some set bonuses to include procs hasn't been a detriment at all. Hell, its the reverse! I feel more that if I don't use procs that I fall behind my own goals. I haven't had much trouble in covering my recharge, defense/resistance, or self sustain needs by skipping some set bonuses for procs in the slightest. I'm in agreement with most of your points, but just not there yet on this one.

I have Beam/Bio too! I do not believe that the issue has been fixed yet. I tried searching the patch notes thread and nothing returned on the topic. Genomic Evo is still a good power to put some resistance IO sets in or the uniques or both. The Sentinel ATOs have some range modifier increases that can be a pseudo replacement effect and you can split the set to stack more of that modifier. Not sure you can get a lot of range built into the Sentinel, but then again I haven't tried either. I don't mind if enemies run up to me.

Outside of expensive sets (which is what I did) you could evaluate Sorcery's Rune of Protection as a pseudo-T9. That can potentially cap all your resistances depending on where you are at. Also, those resistance inspires are good skittles to have.

I feel I addressed that in the rest of the response where I cite some specific power interactions. I'll restate my position though. Sentinels have slightly lower defense values in their secondaries than Scrappers/Brutes/Stalkers. On top of that they also have more limitations in IO set selection. You can absolutely hit the defensive softcap with Sentinel Ninjitsu or Super Reflexes with some planning. However, for other sets building up defense can require more creativity. Dark Blast helps offset right from level 1. Sentinels have 0 options for primary power sets that offer +Defense (no Parry, no Defensive Sweep, no Guarded Spin, etc.). The only primary with somewhat direct defense additions is Dark Blast. Furthermore, all Sentinels have standardized cooldowns on their T9's. Blackstar's secondary effect was not adjusted for the reduction in cooldown. Blackstar imposes a -35% to hit debuff for 20 seconds. Sentinels can absolutely build to achieve cooldowns on their T9's in the 24-28 second range. This means a Dark Blast Sentinel can have a -35% to hit debuff against up to 10 targets (that also does a lot of damage) with a down time on said debuff in the 4-8 second range. That seems like a pretty big boon to me. Another factor on why I feel it is a big enough deal to mention. Blackstar is point-blank in range. Sentinels have an entire secondary devoted to letting them survive an alpha strike. This makes delivery of Blackstar a lot easier on a Sentinel than it can be on a Blaster. Blaster pros (as I see them): 1) Higher base damage plus Defiance 2) Possibility for more IO set diversity in the secondary (immobilize at level 1, crowd control powers earlier, melee powers earlier, PBAoE powers earlier) -- IO set diversity is something I see as a weak point in Sentinels. 3) Higher AoE target caps 4) --Dark Blast specific-- Moonbeam is more accessible with the sniper changes and deals good damage 5) --Dark Blast specific-- Tenebrous Tentacles is an AoE Immobilize which can be rare on Blasters 6) --Dark Blast specific-- Its a primary with a legacy of being a hybrid damage/control set (both a pro and a con) 7) High-risk, High-reward game play 8)Easy to play tough to master... low skill floor and high skill ceiling 9) Largely AoE focused as envisioned by the original design (Scrappers were the single-target kings) 10) Defiance and sniper changes improved single-target damage to the AT Blaster cons: 1) Lack of mezz protection in the earlier game 2) Lack of defensive powers in the earlier game (somewhat offset with Dark Blast) 3) --Dark Blast specific-- It's largely ranged cones and they aren't particularly strong 4) --Dark Blast specific -- No Aim for more control (Stuns, AoE Immobilize, etc..) 5) High-risk, High-reward game play can lead to a lot of hospital visits Sentinel Dark Blast is very different. I happen to like Sentinel Dark Blast better than the Blaster/Corruptor versions. I feel it is fine as is with Defender/Corruptors since I don't mind the level of control it has. Yeah, I mention Corruptor twice. If I am looking for a heavy AoE damage set on a Corruptor then I am not looking at Dark Blast. I don't tend to select heavy offensive sets on Defenders in the first place (I prefer the secondary effects) and that mindset also applies to more supporty Corruptors vs pew-pew Corruptors. Sentinel pros: 1) --Dark Blast specific-- Dark Pit traded out completely (*Edit: Blasters don't get Dark Pit, Defenders/Corruptors do... still this is win in a general sense). 3) --Dark Blast specific-- Tenebrous Tentacles traded out completely (this is a pro and a con... I like TT) 3) --Dark Blast specific-- Nightfall traded for a targeted AoE vs a cone (Dark Obliteration) (*Edit: again not a Blaster Power, BUT Blasters don't get Dark Obliteration either 😉 ) 4) --Dark Blast specific-- Torrent changed to Umbral Torrent - moved lower in the power order selection and still does good damage (*Edit: Blasters also get this) 5) --Dark Blast specific-- You actually gain Aim likely at the expense of Dark Pit (*Edit: Blasters gain Aim too.) 6) --Dark Blast specific-- You gain Abyssal Gaze which is a high damage hold (*Edit: Blasters also gain this.) 7) --Dark Blast specific-- You swap Moonbeam with Antumbral Beam. This isn't so bad in actual practice as AB decent. 8)Mezz protection/resistance in the secondary 9) Possibly easier leveling experience - this is completely subjective but a common statement in favor of Sentinels especially solo 10) Tier 9 powers recharge faster 11) Easy to play from level 1 12) --Dark Blast specific-- Different single target rotation available. Abyssal Gaze/Antumbral Beam + filler out of either Dark Blast or Gloom for a decent DPA attack sequence vs Moonbeam/Gloom/Dark Blast on Blasters (*Edit: Blasters could also use Abyssal Gaze.) 13) Single-target focus as an AT vs AoE focused (*Edit: The Blaster version can be very Single-target focused if it wants to be but the AoE of the set is subjectively pretty much garbage for a Blaster. This commentary is applicable to comparison of Defender/Corruptor versions though which is where my head was at.) Sentinel cons: 1) Lower base damage. 2) Lower target caps on AoE powers 3) Lower IO set diversity in general 4) Easy to play from level 1 through 50+. Low skill entry and arguably low skill ceiling too. I say arguably because it creative builds can do amazing things as well as players though this isn't as intuitive for most of the player base. 5) --Dark Blast specific-- Loss of legacy identity as a control/damage hybrid My bias here is that Blasters are very good at AoE damage. Dark Blast is subjectively not a great AoE set for damage. It is a subjectively good set for additional control. So if that is your bag then you can make a Blaster to fit that bill. It isn't how I view them but I am also not a big fan of Blasters period. So I'm probably not a great resource. 😉 The Sentinel version of Dark changes out the set so much and shifts it toward more offense. Sure, Abyssal Gaze can hold targets (for something like 2 seconds base duration) but its a reasonably hard hitting damage-over-time attack. Beyond that Sentinel Dark Blast doesn't pretend to be a Controller-lite like the original version of it was on Defenders. As a former D3 Defender player I can say I greatly appreciate the design changes on a more offensive AT vs the straight port over that Blasters got.

You can make DA/TW work without Ageless like Nihilii points out. Same goes for Cardiac. You don't need them. Cardiac though is a huge boon to the pairing though. You get an improvement to endurance reduction which applies to your attacks as well as your toggles. That's the reason why I'd recommend it. You'll save endurance on offense in any content in the 45+ range (if you exemplar below 45 you lose your Incarnate perks). You don't need that much endurance management to play the pair in the lower levels but you do need to be mindful of your end drain. I don't think I slotted Taunt with my DA/TW. If I do slot Taunt it is often to just add a set there for a specific bonus I want. You should be able to hold enemy attention with the occasional taunt plus the damage pulse out of Death Shroud. Of course your AoE hits will also apply some taunting from the Tanker inherent. So in short, you should be good on taunt duration effects just by default. Nihilii's sequence works once you activate Momentum otherwise Follow Through wouldn't be available. Another is Rend Armor -> Follow Through -> Arc of Destruction -> Crushing Blow -> Follow Through. I can only pull that off during Ageless for a short window since I don't have a ton of Global Recharge (I forgot the exact amount). When I have those windows of lower recharge I use more Crushing Blows as filler or Defensive Sweep if the buff has dropped off. Keep in mind trying to squeeze in all of the best attacks on Titan Weapons can potentially sap your endurance quick. If you have to cast Dark Regeneration in there that's a huge hit to your blue bar. Titan Weapons already does pretty extreme damage as it is so there should be NO SHAME in slowing your attacks a bit to avoid draining your endurance. In lower level content I toss around the occasional Taunts to slow down endurance spend to let my end procs catch up. In Dark Regeneration I have a +endurance IO just to help it break even.

This works really well for Plant/Storm, Plant/Nature Controllers or Plant/* Dominators, or Beast Mastery/Nature or Beast Mastery/Storm Masterminds.

Props for combining a pre-teen concept with a power set that just yells at everyone. If door slamming was a power, then you should take that too. The behavior alone makes me sick IRL so mutant powers aren't even required! 😛

I don't know if anyone thinks Sentinels are broken. They do seem a little undertuned both on defensive powers and their offensive output. The mechanics of the inherent having two different modes tied to the T1/T2 powers creates a perception of removed player agency if one feels they have to have both effects in order to fully realize the AT. To sum up, there are arguments about the AT being clunky (T1/T2 issue) and a perception of weak damage. That perception of weakness is amplified when making cross AT comparisons as apples to apples view points on AoE powers. I do agree with some of the undertuned thought on the damage and defense. However a lot of the discussions like this one here conveniently ignore how Sentinels have different single target attack chains vs Blasters. AoE is pretty obvious on the difference there but the single target can be a lot more blurry. The issue with realizing that blurred line comes down to builds though. A Sentinel can be built to focus on its single-target strength and do some pretty competitive damage. However, I am willing to bet most people don't go for that. Instead I see talk in game, and the occasional build ideas, about almost doing carbon copy building on Sentinels as if they were Blasters. What I mean here is that a set like Thunderstrike is very valuable to Blasters for that defense bonus. However to Sentinels Thunderstrike is a good set but depending on your secondary you can probably do better. Sentinels can afford to build more damage into their sets up through procs than most Blasters can. There are some Sentinel primary sets with higher single target DPS than their Blaster counterparts prior to fully engaged Defiance. Archery is one example of that. Since Sentinels can have attack chains with better DPA their overall sustained damage has potential there. What I think needs to be fix though is that the Sentinel needs to be a bit more intuitive on this and evening out its performance would help a lot. You shouldn't have to write a dissertation on the exact number of damage procs to use into specific power combinations in order to get just get competitive with the other damaging ATs. Scrappers/Stalkers/Brutes/Blasters all perform well out of the box and investment in them just makes them better. Sentinels get better with investment too but that investment does seem to require a lot more advanced understanding of the IO system. That's just bullshit and it should be adjusted. So no, I don't think Sentinels are broken. Hell, I don't think they are all that weak either. Its been awhile since I leveled one from scratch though so it could be I have gotten so used to running 3 procs in the bulk of my attacks I've lost sight of why people say they are weak. I dunno. I see people claim Dual Pistols are weak too and I cut through 54's like a chainsaw. I have some Stalkers/Scrappers that can do it a bit faster but I don't find it so noticeable to be the issue that some claim it is. We're all different though so to each their own.

Power Analyzer shows 5% resistance debuff from any attack. There is also a -3.75% defense debuff applied at all times. Offensive or Defensive mode only inflicts a -20% resistance debuff.

I appreciate the clarity on where you stand. I don't view Defenders as a DPS AT at all, but I really don't want to argue a difference of opinion there. I'm merely stating my position so my previous views have that context. I'm in agreement that if Sentinels were to get some form of change with a positive effect on damage that said damage should not eclipse the Blaster. I also don't think that's going to happen either. I don't think a scalar shift from 0.95 to 1.0 is so big that it steps on the Blaster's 1.125 + Defiance. Adding criticals might and if so then it shouldn't happen. If keeping the current inherent with a scalar shift also creates a problem, then that shouldn't happen either. For the sake of consistency, I'd like to Sentinels have their Secondary sets get a 75% scale vs the current 70% scale. No, Sentinels don't really need that for survival but it feels like an unnecessary implementation in its current state. Those are my very basic thoughts on what might be done to improve the AT. In actual play, I am very happy with the Sentinel. Really dramatic changes to the AT would potentially cause me to revisit multiple builds plus spend resources to adapt. I'm actually not that interested in having my builds so dramatically upended so I'd rather advocate for streamlining/simplicity. The longer they go without proposing changes the worse that feeling is going to get for me, and I doubt I'd be alone.

Well I stated potentially deceptive and not that is was for certain deceptive. Saying that Sentinels are a DPS class then citing how the character creator lumps all classes except Controllers/Masterminds into the ranged damage role is a bit disingenuous. Playing a character intended to be a primary damage dealer is different from playing a character that can contribute damage as a secondary or tertiary role. In short, the statement comes across as placing the Sentinel on the same ground as every other AT in the "Ranged Damage" category. Or in other words, since the Defender exists in the "Ranged Damage" category then it too is a DPS class. That may not have been the intent, but that is how the statement can come across. I most certainly don't feel some expectation of need on anything I play. Period, full stop. Doesn't matter if I am logging in to my Tanker or my Controller or my Scrapper. I don't seek out groups with those characters because I have some sense that a team needs me. I log in to those ATs because I like those characters and their power combinations. If a group lets me in, when I am feeling like teaming, then I plan to contribute as best I can. What I don't do is spend time staring at my navel as a Tanker when blasters start mowing down massive groups. If a group I am with gets to a point where I am not having fun then I can drop that group and do something else. In my experience that doesn't happen enough to really bother me, but I get it does to some others. Your other points about making a difference and meaning are fair.