JayboH

That's the first time I've ever seen anyone mention 'bug' with the endurance penalty. I don't think anyone has ever thought it was a bug...?

Probably - I used to make lots of Youtube videos on a personal channel for this game. The last 4 years though I have made videos for what is now known as Fandom Games.

I've got a TA/AR build here that worked for me well on closed beta, in case you can convert it Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Lastheneia: Level 50 Technology Defender Primary Power Set: Trick Arrow Secondary Power Set: Assault Rifle Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Speed Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Entangling Arrow -- GrvAnc-Immob/Rchg(A), GrvAnc-Immob/EndRdx(3), GrvAnc-Acc/Immob/Rchg(5), GrvAnc-Acc/Rchg(9), GrvAnc-Hold%(9) Level 1: Burst -- Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7) Level 2: Glue Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 4: Slug -- SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11) Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(25), Ksm-ToHit+(27), LucoftheG-Def(27) Level 8: Poison Gas Arrow -- FrtHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(A), FrtHyp-Plct%(13), FrtHyp-Acc/Rchg(13), FrtHyp-Sleep/Rchg(19), FrtHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(37) Level 10: Kick -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(23) Level 12: Acid Arrow -- ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(A), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(48) Level 14: Buckshot -- SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(15), FrcFdb-Rechg%(15), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), PstBls-Dam%(17) Level 16: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(19), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(25) Level 18: Super Speed -- WntGif-ResSlow(A) Level 20: Disruption Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50) Level 24: Sniper Rifle -- SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(40), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(42), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43) Level 26: Oil Slick Arrow -- Ann-Dmg/Rchg(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(29), AirBrs-Dmg/Rchg(29), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Ann-ResDeb%(34) Level 28: Flamethrower -- PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(A), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(34), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(34), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(37), PstBls-Dam%(37) Level 30: Tactics -- RctRtc-ToHit(A), RctRtc-Pcptn(31), GssSynFr--Build%(36), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(36) Level 32: Tough -- GldArm-End/Res(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(33), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(33), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(33) Level 35: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(36), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40) Level 38: Full Auto -- SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(39), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(40) Level 41: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(42), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42) Level 44: M30 Grenade -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(45), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(45), FrcFdb-Rechg%(45), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), PstBls-Dam%(46) Level 47: Ignite -- OvrFrc-Dam/KB(A), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(48), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech(48), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg(50), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End(50) Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- UnbLea-Stlth(A) Level 1: Vigilance Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(5), Pnc-Heal/+End(46) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(3) Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve Level 0: Portal Jockey Level 0: Task Force Commander Level 0: The Atlas Medallion Level 50: Cardiac Radial Paragon Level 1: Quick Form ------------

I said even if we ignore that (as in, your IO slotting to resolve this penalty.) Also, if you are asking about SOs, are you stating their power's strength needs to not be as high due to having to slot more end reduction SOs than other classes? Is that the idea?

That's exactly why I specified SOs above. Even if we ignore that, it's still a penalty vs other ATs that can also benefit from those same IOs.

I assume there are really small attachment size limits unless you render it down to very low quality or keep it really short.

Yeah I didn't think so. It was never right in my eyes but hindsight they say is 20/20.

Beasts for sure, and there is also Gang War and Hell on Earth which are decent abilities I thought anyway.

NVM. Edit won't let me delete.

Actually they already toyed with Energy Melee changes on the closed beta server some years ago with tankers, and yes, it added some AOE mechanics to the set under certain conditions, that way you weren't required to benefit from it if you really wanted to be weaker by playing it the old way.

You mean if you keep it as 'unlisted' status on Youtube (not public) which also makes it so you cannot monetize? Only people with the direct link would be able to see it (like these forums?)

Well that's the thing: the end costs on everything for MMs is higher - sonic costs more on MM than any other AT just like every secondary for MM (and pools etc)

I addressed this in the OP - but also when did summons, training, and attacks become free? I actually addressed this twice with the secondaries bit.

This is even more reason to not have endurance penalties. I am positive that having a design doc for masterminds wouldn't say anything about making throwaway abilities they should never take on purpose. I tend to not take them myself (like most players I'd guess) however that may be partially due to the penalties.

My understanding is that you either want 4 pts of kb protection or 10 - the vast majority of the game content only needs the +4. You have 21 points of kb protection. You hit ED limits in Fireball by switching the damage purple to the kd proc, but it depends on how much you can get out of that vs the ED limit break: 124 damage vs 119 (before choice of Alpha.) A team will benefit more by going with Maneuvers over your personal Stealth plus the stealth won't actually hide you because you will be in melee range for Venomous even with Super Speed turned on. If you want to be stealthed in-between groups then you could also put the Celerity stealth proc in Super Speed as you have so much kb protection everywhere. You could drop Super Jump for just the default Alkaloid slot which can still be handy here and there - could put the absorb proc in that. Just some ideas.

Triage Beacon and Spirit Tree need much shorter cooldowns. I want them to stay as a place-able object but make the recharge much faster.

You mean the T1 pets?

Does this make sense in real-world play? Does the argument that Masterminds sit around not using endurance the majority of the time back from CoV's launch actually hold weight in today's game? It's not like a corruptor/controller have gobs of endurance if they just focus on keeping a team alive with their secondary spam, and since MMs can try to keep a team alive and their own pets too with their secondaries I wondered if any discussion can be had about them having to spend more endurance than any other archetype/class in the entire game for the same powers. Toggle-heavy sets like Sonic/Rad/Storm seems unsustainable when you consider it's supposed to be balanced around Single Origin Enhancements unless you forego enhancing anything beyond end cost. Pet summons and training are heavy end drains as well. Just curious what the general consensus is.

So endurance looks pretty bad on both builds - the 2nd build looks rough even with Cardiac (which also grants more resist.) I can't imagine using attacks a ton with so much recharge because of the endurance drain running all that. Recharge on a necro/sonic doesn't seem like it should be a priority. Would it be better to just dump all the protection procs on Soul Extraction? I've seen that done on Thugs/Demons and so on. Combat Jumping, Disruption Field, Sonic Dispersion, Maneuvers, Tactics, Sonic Repulsion, Dark Embrace, and the Hasten end drain is a lot. Then again I've argued the MM end penalties really don't make sense in real play. This sounds like a fun combo and it's different which I like - but it doesn't seem sustainable at least not in the 2nd build here.

Yeah no way would I skip a damage aura

Should probably count the hotfix into the development time.

It's still there vs other sets (other than staff.) It's true however that if you purposely cancel the end cost benefits of either set, you don't get them, which just means it is working as intended.

I mean compared to other sets, Savage (and Staff) are very, very noticeable when it comes to lighter end use while leveling.

One wouldn't think end would be that bad considering EA recovers and Savage grants nice end discounts that only vanish when burning your stacks

Depends on AT. A Thugs/Traps can be softcapped and procced to the gills without losing much at all.