Focused Feedback: Tank Updates

[Auroxis]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Igneous said:

Wow...this post shocked me.  IO set bonuses need to be AT specific if this kind of power creep is available.  A blaster should not be this durable.  You don't need tanks at all if the whole team has stats like these.  Almost anyone can take a hit and survive.  I am feeling very useless right now looking at this.  There are some SOd tanks that don't have stats this good.  919 percent Regen too.  The only thing lacking here is Hit Points to take an alpha strike.  Whole thing needs to be looked at, each AT.  Tanks should always be the most durable with the best aggro control.  A blaster should not be able to achieve this level of defensive stats at all.  Especially with the melt your face offensive power that they have.  Game is broken.  Everyone seems to be able to Solo just about everything without needing a tank, or groups not even needing a tank to function at all.  Max defense per AT needs a look at with set bonuses.  Caps for each AT should be looked at. Is it possible to cap defense and resistance per AT with the game engine?  This blaster does not look like a squishie at all.  The cap for Blaster resist and defense should be no more than half that of a Tank!  This blaster has Brute level defense and resists of a Brute in slotted Granite armor. Does that seem right to anybody?  It does not to me.  Wait it is better than a Brute in Granite, this blaster has 72.9% Psionic resistance!!

Keep in mind these resistance numbers are likely reached with temporary buffs (melee hybrid and rune of protection), I suspect the defense is mostly from scorpion shield and winter IO sets.

[Profit]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Igneous said:

Wow...this post shocked me.  IO set bonuses need to be AT specific if this kind of power creep is available.  A blaster should not be this durable.  You don't need tanks at all if the whole team has stats like these.  Almost anyone can take a hit and survive.  I am feeling very useless right now looking at this.  There are some SOd tanks that don't have stats this good.  919 percent Regen too.  The only thing lacking here is Hit Points to take an alpha strike.  Whole thing needs to be looked at, each AT.  Tanks should always be the most durable with the best aggro control.  A blaster should not be able to achieve this level of defensive stats at all.  Especially with the melt your face offensive power that they have.  Game is broken.  Everyone seems to be able to Solo just about everything without needing a tank, or groups not even needing a tank to function at all.  Max defense per AT needs a look at with set bonuses.  Caps for each AT should be looked at. Is it possible to cap defense and resistance per AT with the game engine?  This blaster does not look like a squishie at all.  The cap for Blaster resist and defense should be no more than half that of a Tank!  This blaster has Brute level defense and resists of a Brute in slotted Granite armor. Does that seem right to anybody?  It does not to me.  Wait it is better than a Brute in Granite, this blaster has 72.9% Psionic resistance!!

Don't be shocked. This is an arch/nin blaster, ask anyone, /nin sucks on blasters and is not actually any good for anything. Literally, go look up the 'does ninja suck' thread in blaster forum. All the details why /nin sucks hard are there. It's squishy, don't be fooled. It definitely has never gotten a scrapper or brute killed because they followed me face into Battle Maiden at 4x8. It's definitely never farmed the asteroid/atta cave at 4x8 and it's most definitely never tanked Ghost Widow in the STF.

 

Having said all that, mostly tongue in cheek, you need to realize that the first 2 toons that get any consideration upon logging in are tanks. Slot 1 and 2. My main and my second tank that I adore. Then this blaster, then my controller. That blaster was a math exercise and is around because, ninja and stupid blaster tricks. Even with those stats, I click buttons like a damn kinetics just to stay alive. (I say damn kinetics because it's so clicky! feels like work some of the time)

 

The controller is fun because, wizard. My controller btw....

 

[Snakebit]

4 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Like so ...

Tanker 1 can add up to 5 stacks of the Bruising debuff.

Tanker 2 can add up to 5 MORE stacks of the Bruising debuff (up to a total of 10).

Tanker 3 can add up to 5 MORE stacks of the Bruising debuff (up to a total of 15).

...

 

Make sense now?

This is a horrible idea. 

[Myrmidon]

6 hours ago, Auroxis said:

Nor am I ecstatic to have a -res debuff power taken away from my character.

 

For what we get in return for losing that Ritz cracker, I’ll like it and bring a debuff-wielding teammate if I feel the need.

[Bopper]

Has anyone actually been testing this and providing feedback to the devs, or has the entire 25 pages of comments been debate on the power changes? I am tempted to suggest a GM move this conversation to Suggestions and Feedback, and have them start this topic over with folks who will actually test the new mechanics.

[Myrmidon]

4 hours ago, Redlynne said:

But obviously I'm in the minority when it comes to holding that opinion/perspective.

Far more people just want to play MOAR DAKKA! and watch Big Numbers™ smoke off their $Targets on screen, because that feeds their power trip fantasies so much more easily.

 

I was considering the merits of your idea until this part.

 

Xenos.

[Snakebit]

13 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Has anyone actually been testing this and providing feedback to the devs, or has the entire 25 pages of comments been debate on the power changes? I am tempted to suggest a GM move this conversation to Suggestions and Feedback, and have them start this topic over with folks who will actually test the new mechanics.

I asked the exact thing a few posts up. 

[Myrmidon]

1 hour ago, Mr. Igneous said:

Wow...this post shocked me.  IO set bonuses need to be AT specific if this kind of power creep is available.  A blaster should not be this durable.  You don't need tanks at all if the whole team has stats like these.  Almost anyone can take a hit and survive.  I am feeling very useless right now looking at this.  There are some SOd tanks that don't have stats this good.  919 percent Regen too.  The only thing lacking here is Hit Points to take an alpha strike.  Whole thing needs to be looked at, each AT.  Tanks should always be the most durable with the best aggro control.  A blaster should not be able to achieve this level of defensive stats at all.  Especially with the melt your face offensive power that they have.  Game is broken.  Everyone seems to be able to Solo just about everything without needing a tank, or groups not even needing a tank to function at all.  Max defense per AT needs a look at with set bonuses.  Caps for each AT should be looked at. Is it possible to cap defense and resistance per AT with the game engine?  This blaster does not look like a squishie at all.  The cap for Blaster resist and defense should be no more than half that of a Tank!  This blaster has Brute level defense and resists of a Brute in slotted Granite armor. Does that seem right to anybody?  It does not to me.  Wait it is better than a Brute in Granite, this blaster has 72.9% Psionic resistance!!

What we have in play here is the setup for future Incarnate content that, unfortunately, didn’t come to pass before. Give Homecoming some time to come up with content for the Incarnates at full power and it won’t seem so wrong.

[Widower]

11 minutes ago, cejmp said:

I asked the exact thing a few posts up. 

It's @Captain Powerhouse's thread and thus his call.

[Profit]

I would argue everything in this thread needs to stay because it's all important. From the perceived outrage brute players feel at having their toes stepped on and no longer being the undisputed kings of the playground, to the way career tankers feel about the changes, the way the changes actually feel when piloting a tank, and the actual numbers behind the mechanics. 

[Snakebit]

1 minute ago, Profit said:

I would argue everything in this thread needs to stay because it's all important. From the perceived outrage brute players feel at having their toes stepped on and no longer being the undisputed kings of the playground, to the way career tankers feel about the changes, the way the changes actually feel when piloting a tank, and the actual numbers behind the mechanics. 

THIS thread as it is needs to exist.

 

ANOTHER thread needs to exist and it needs to have ONLY posts describing the play of the changes on the test server. 

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, Myrmidon said:

What we have in play here is the setup for future Incarnate content that, unfortunately, didn’t come to pass before. Give Homecoming some time to come up with content for the Incarnates at full power and it won’t seem so wrong.

I assumed the super blaster was using force of nature, the unstoppable semi clone. 

 

Either that and/or the sorcery equivalent.

 

Outside of that you can't have resist values like that except in s/l.

 

 

 

 

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Mr. Igneous said:

Wow...this post shocked me.  IO set bonuses need to be AT specific if this kind of power creep is available.  A blaster should not be this durable.  You don't need tanks at all if the whole team has stats like these.  Almost anyone can take a hit and survive.  I am feeling very useless right now looking at this.  There are some SOd tanks that don't have stats this good.  919 percent Regen too.  The only thing lacking here is Hit Points to take an alpha strike.  Whole thing needs to be looked at, each AT.  Tanks should always be the most durable with the best aggro control.  A blaster should not be able to achieve this level of defensive stats at all.  Especially with the melt your face offensive power that they have.  Game is broken.  Everyone seems to be able to Solo just about everything without needing a tank, or groups not even needing a tank to function at all.  Max defense per AT needs a look at with set bonuses.  Caps for each AT should be looked at. Is it possible to cap defense and resistance per AT with the game engine?  This blaster does not look like a squishie at all.  The cap for Blaster resist and defense should be no more than half that of a Tank!  This blaster has Brute level defense and resists of a Brute in slotted Granite armor. Does that seem right to anybody?  It does not to me.  Wait it is better than a Brute in Granite, this blaster has 72.9% Psionic resistance!!

... you do realize he popped his T9 to take that screenshot... right?

[Myrmidon]

3 minutes ago, Profit said:

I would argue everything in this thread needs to stay because it's all important. From the perceived outrage brute players feel at having their toes stepped on and no longer being the undisputed kings of the playground, to the way career tankers feel about the changes, the way the changes actually feel when piloting a tank, and the actual numbers behind the mechanics. 

 

Agreed.

[Myrmidon]

2 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I assumed the super blaster was using force of nature, the unstoppable semi clone. 

 

Either that and/or the sorcery equivalent.

 

Outside of that you can't have resist values like that except in s/l.

 

 

 

 

 

Profit can be tricksy.🤣

[Radamand]

Okay, stupid noob question- What is meant by a "T1" or a "T2" power?  
I have no idea what this is referring to.

[Haijinx]

Just now, Radamand said:

Okay, stupid noob question- What is meant by a "T1" or a "T2" power?  
I have no idea what this is referring to.

T1 is the first power in a powerset, T2 the second, and so on.

 

Powers generally get stronger as they increase in Tier.  

[Profit]

4 minutes ago, Sovera said:

... you do realize he popped his T9 to take that screenshot... right?

I didn't actually...

 

im out and about away from mids currently so I have no ability to post more screenshots at the moment. I run at roughly that level 24/7.

[Myrmidon]

34 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Has anyone actually been testing this and providing feedback to the devs, or has the entire 25 pages of comments been debate on the power changes? I am tempted to suggest a GM move this conversation to Suggestions and Feedback, and have them start this topic over with folks who will actually test the new mechanics.

I have been testing, yes. I would like a little more play on a few more combinations (along with that new patch of adjustments), however so far, Magic Eight-Ball says “Overall, this is a good set of changes”.

[Tachstar]

Well, I don't know if you could call it 'testing', but I did get on the beta server and try some stuff out.  Here are the boring and not very detailed details --

 

I rolled my electric/stone tanker on the test server, played through the tutorial (Isolator!) and on up to level 5 when finally she was done in by vahzilok, at which point I stopped and took a break.  Didn't really feel much different through those levels.

 

Earlier that same day I'd played a sr/claws tanker up to level 5 on one of the regular servers, so I duped that rare tanker on the test server and played up to level 6.  The one on the test server had a much, I dunno, smoother time of it.  Not sure if any of the accolade bonuses were a factor, but having the first two attacks switched did make a difference.  I wound up not even taking the wimpier of the two, just going with that one attack.  Later I went back to the one on the regular server and played up to level 8 or so.  The test version definitely had it better, and was also much luckier -- got the Negotiator badge contact very quickly, and didn't get sent (twice!) to missions at the top of KR where level 13 clockwork lurk waiting for victims of contact maleficence.

 

Then logged back onto the electric/stone tanker and struggled on through that vahzilok mission, then leveled her on up to 27, same as her current level on the regular servers (27 being the highest level I've attained thus far on any of my tankers, the other 27 being dark/staff, which offers much wootness, btw).  Loaded up with SOs and ran some missions, all solo.  Still didn't notice much difference, aside from some of the accolade power bonuses.

 

Then I got all crazy and rolled a stone/ss tanker and went straight to 50 and goofed around for a while in PI.  Having never played a stone tanker to that level, I have no basis for comparison.  But I did play an /ss back in the day, so... well... I can't really remember much about it, except that at the time I thought it was, ya know, awesome.  Seemed pretty awesome still.  I was having fun and kinda forgot to double stack the rage thing to experience the crash.  Woopsie.

 

Anyway, that's my 'test' results so far.

[Sovera]

2 minutes ago, Profit said:

I didn't actually...

 

im out and about away from mids currently so I have no ability to post more screenshots at the moment. I run at roughly that level 24/7.

No need for a screenie but I'll accept a data chunk. I suppose alternating Rune of Protection with something else then.

[Bossk_Hogg]

5 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Breaking the Cottage Rule in this way is going to play merry havoc with build planners and builds posted in the forums.

 

Do. Not. Want.

It's not the cottage rule... 

[Haijinx]

11 minutes ago, Sovera said:

No need for a screenie but I'll accept a data chunk. I suppose alternating Rune of Protection with something else then.

I guess an epic doesnt count as a T9 technically?  Lol

[Profit]

Just so you guys realize, even at 75% on a blaster, you can't just nuke on auto and make a sandwhich. You will die. Quickly. It still takes a crazy amount of work to do the things i do on that blaster. And I have to be on point or I die. One mistake, all it takes. It's a lot like playing regen, I'm ok I'm ok I'm ok I'm... dead.

[Rejolt]

I've tested a fully setted Elec/SS tank and SS/Elec brute on the beta servers and while  pretty darn close in performance I'd think a brute teaming with a tank would lose the aggro that makes having fury coupled with a .75 damage scale advisable.

 

Suggest a slight rebalance of a brute's base damage and cap from .75 and 675 to .8 or .85 and lowering the damage cap to 633 or 600

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by Rejolt