Kill Stealing

[Senkan]

Having a hard time with people saying "if you don't like it then do...".  KS has been a bad part of this game since I joined in May 2004. Some don't realize this is CHEATING and should be looked at as cheating. People who cheat shouldn't be able to dictate how a person of character plays.

 

If the person doesn't understand how KS works let them know what they did is wrong. if they do it again I would report them to the server admin and see what he/has to say.

 

One thing people can do is ask if they can help....

[Dr. Gemini]

Having a hard time with people saying "if you don't like it then do...".  KS has been a bad part of this game since I joined in May 2004. Some don't realize this is CHEATING and should be looked at as cheating. People who cheat shouldn't be able to dictate how a person of character plays.

 

If the person doesn't understand how KS works let them know what they did is wrong. if they do it again I would report them to the server admin and see what he/has to say.

 

One thing people can do is ask if they can help....

 

The only people in this thread trying to dictate to others how they play is you. I would ask you to do two things, though. First, look up the definition of cheating as it clearly does not mean what you think it does. Second, don't bother GMs with something that is completely irrelevant in the game given the way the game handles things unless someone is griefing you with actual kill stealing, which means they're nuking mobs you're clearly going for before you can even engage.

[THEDarkTyger]

It does not matter why it is done...it does not even matter who gets the kill...it is RUDE and DISRESPECTFUL and there is NO excuse for it...you can attempt to justify the behavior if you want to, but it is still not acceptable behavior online. If you are in that big of a hurry, maybe online gaming is not the place for you!

 

Yeah, no, it really isn't. To you, maybe, but your opinion is kinda the minority one on that. Was even when the game was live.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

As others have said by design CoH was made to make kill stealing as much of a non issue as possible. You get a fair sahre for what you do to a mob when non partied heroes take part. This was to make things like the Giant Monsters be something all big or small could come help on without having to group up if not in the mood.

 

I recall how once I was doing my own thing in the RWZ and while omw to another mish saw a mothership raid was in progress So I fly my blaster over that way and just start bombarding the masses dragging aggro around as I saw fit to help protect groups of more hard pressed heroes.

 

Then the guy leading the whole thing starts verbally harassing me in general chat, accusing me of griefing and kill stealing, and saying I had to do what he said or he would report me. I said go ahead and reported him myself for harassment.

 

Before the raid was done he had vanished while I was still doing my thing.

 

We each of us are meant to be the best hero we can be, And that has always been in part looking after younger heroes in training. While there are non combat ways to assist a young hero like heals and buffs, some ATs dont have such utility and helping from them is hitting things hard.

 

Id say to the OP and those of like mind stay in instances and dont street sweep. Its you who cant play well with others.

[Sanguinesun]

If you're that upset about it, OP, just avoid outdoor missions and focus on doing indoor ones.

 

THIS, a million times.

 

There are comparatively few outdoor missions in the game, and they made it so that those there are most of them have really good spawn rates AND you get credit no matter how much damage you dealt.

 

If someone swooping in and helping you deal with a hoard of baddies bothers you that much, stay inside where they can't do it.

 

So what you and the other person(s) are advocating then is for people to do this and attempting to invalidate the OP's concerns?  I think with the return of the game perhaps there is a compelling argument to be had to perhaps find a better perspective that doesn't promote people being unkind to others and then masking it with excuses/reasons of "Im helping" or "go play indoors".

 

I do agree that with the higher exp rate we all are enjoying via these server iterations and that other changes before and now make such extreme kill stealing for the most part a smaller/non issue in terms of mechanics/leveling but in terms of how it presents itself to various players as someone else stated in a rude or similar (line cutting, perhaps) manner isn't necessarily being necessarily condemned/address except to say "deal with it if you want to be outside" which really sends a rather equally poor message.

 

I joined a frostfire team over the weekend on my thermal mastermind, we had some fun and killed us an elite boss. Afterwards, I was flying back to Paragon City and noticed a level 11 tanker (I was 18 at the time) getting into a fight with way too many trolls. So being the meddling do-gooder I am, I started chain-healing him. He didn't seem to understand that for all intents and purposes I was making him invulnerable to the trolls, since I could outheal their damage easily, so he ended up running back to get them zapped by police drones.

 

But hey, I tried!

 

Another possibility is that the player was trying to test something/do something specific that your help interfered with?  It probably wasn't necessarily the case in your example situation, but I have seen folks doing that(as an example seeing how many of a certain level/mob type can be handled by a certain power/combination of powers.  Doing such on the streets is typically much easier than in a door mission since its more quickly/readily available.  We never know but we invariably make assumptions and a judgement call(at least when intentionally being helpful).

 

 

 

[Azrath]

New people to online gaming and a few that have been around...joining in killing a mob when you have not been asked, or are not on a party with the person killing a set of mobs is called Kill Stealing helping and is GREATLY frowned upon[/s] appreciated by most players. I realize you might think you are helping but please do not do so and you are. You may "Need that mob to complete your mission", go find another set as it is rude and disrespectful to the player already engaged with the set of mobs. and we'll both get mission credit and xp/inf based on our (teams) damage contribution! Thank You

 

Sorry, looks like we needed an editing pass. 

[Charistoph]

If you're that upset about it, OP, just avoid outdoor missions and focus on doing indoor ones.

 

THIS, a million times.

 

There are comparatively few outdoor missions in the game, and they made it so that those there are most of them have really good spawn rates AND you get credit no matter how much damage you dealt.

 

If someone swooping in and helping you deal with a hoard of baddies bothers you that much, stay inside where they can't do it.

 

So what you and the other person(s) are advocating then is for people to do this and attempting to invalidate the OP's concerns?  I think with the return of the game perhaps there is a compelling argument to be had to perhaps find a better perspective that doesn't promote people being unkind to others and then masking it with excuses/reasons of "Im helping" or "go play indoors".

 

I do agree that with the higher exp rate we all are enjoying via these server iterations and that other changes before and now make such extreme kill stealing for the most part a smaller/non issue in terms of mechanics/leveling but in terms of how it presents itself to various players as someone else stated in a rude or similar (line cutting, perhaps) manner isn't necessarily being necessarily condemned/address except to say "deal with it if you want to be outside" which really sends a rather equally poor message.

 

To be fair, the OP's attitude is stuck in 2004.  It has been a LONG time, even in CoH's life time, where kill-stealing was a problem.  Heck, even World of Warcraft has finally updated to make Kill-Stealing impossible when on the same faction (though, it DID take them a while).  And if they don't want to change their attitude, then maybe they need to be less social where their feelings won't be hurt.  Being solo on a mission is a rather safe place from helpful heroes and conniving villains.

 

I joined a frostfire team over the weekend on my thermal mastermind, we had some fun and killed us an elite boss. Afterwards, I was flying back to Paragon City and noticed a level 11 tanker (I was 18 at the time) getting into a fight with way too many trolls. So being the meddling do-gooder I am, I started chain-healing him. He didn't seem to understand that for all intents and purposes I was making him invulnerable to the trolls, since I could outheal their damage easily, so he ended up running back to get them zapped by police drones.

 

But hey, I tried!

 

Another possibility is that the player was trying to test something/do something specific that your help interfered with?  It probably wasn't necessarily the case in your example situation, but I have seen folks doing that(as an example seeing how many of a certain level/mob type can be handled by a certain power/combination of powers.  Doing such on the streets is typically much easier than in a door mission since its more quickly/readily available.  We never know but we invariably make assumptions and a judgement call(at least when intentionally being helpful).

 

Well, there is thing called, "communication".  If you are trying to test things out and someone "interferes", then let them know.  I know it's an odd thing to do since [sarcasm] we were all updated with the mind-reading apps to our brain [/sarcasm], but it has proven quite successful in bridging the gap in misunderstanding.

[Piledriver]

The fact that this thread exists ensures I'm going to gank things at random when I see people fighting them in-world instead of just running past hitting you with a buff or heal. The game mechanics here are more in line with Asheron's Call than Everquest, so "kill stealing" was never an issue, but I certainly "frown upon" people who get butthurt about it.

[RogDodge]

The fact that this thread exists ensures I'm going to gank things at random when I see people fighting them in-world instead of just running past hitting you with a buff or heal. The game mechanics here are more in line with Asheron's Call than Everquest, so "kill stealing" was never an issue, but I certainly "frown upon" people who get butthurt about it.

 

I agree, any might even make a ninja stalker just to make it a bit more "thematic".

[Pixel Mayhem]

There have been a few outside quests I've done that I would have welcomed some assistance by some random player whether I got credit for the kill or not because the mobs re-spawned so fast.

[jkwak]

so many years ago i thought like OP in COH, but then i realised i m still geting XP and was thankfull they saved me when i struggled agains to many enemys

[THEDarkTyger]

So what you and the other person(s) are advocating then is for people to do this and attempting to invalidate the OP's concerns?  I think with the return of the game perhaps there is a compelling argument to be had to perhaps find a better perspective that doesn't promote people being unkind to others and then masking it with excuses/reasons of "Im helping" or "go play indoors".

 

Except the vast majority of people don't consider it "unkind". Never have. The system in place makes it a non-issue. "Killstealing" simply isn't a thing that really applies to CoH. You can't actually steal someone's "kill".

[Rockfall]

The question is, will this thread be the new jerk hacking?

[Nuc]

The question is, will this thread be the new jerk hacking?

 

 

Nah, OP posted in it more than once. Automatic disqualification ;)

[_NOPE_]

The question is, will this thread be the new jerk hacking?

 

this what happened in the last game i played KSers ruined it for everyone stealing kills and expeez and just anything to cheat there no extened maintenance there trying to catch the KSer and we pay for it so unless people don't let GM'S know of wrong doing's in the game it we ruin it and there we not be a COH IT WELL BE GONE TO THE PERUVIANS!!!!!!!

[Generator]

So what you and the other person(s) are advocating then is for people to do this and attempting to invalidate the OP's concerns?

 

In the limited context of this specific issue, yes.  Not every viewpoint gets to be regarded as valid, especially when one is in direct opposition to a consensus the community arrived at a long time ago.  I'm sorry this guy is so upset, I really am, but he's got to find a way to get over it.  It's not our job to change in response to him on this matter.

[n00baka]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with the majority on this one. Back on the original forums there would occasionally pop up a thread similar to this, and the response and arguments were always the same.

 

Sometimes it was a misunderstanding of game mechanics because of other games they played. Sometimes it was a matter of personal courtesy. Often it was a combination of the two with a dash of venting.

 

What it boils down to is communication. If you want to change people's minds about how it's affecting you (as the player getting your 'kills stole'), is if the "KSer" stays around, politely let them know you've got it handled and you don't really need assistance. If they move on (politely or not), then you're done and possibly changed someone from repeating. If they stick around and continue, even going so far as to clear mobs that are grey to them (and thus receiving no rewards) out of spite, then you're free to report for harassment. But until they know they're assistance is actually a hindrance, and unless they persist, there's no wronged party here.

 

I hope the OP, and any other players who feel like it's an issue, take the time to interact with the other players first. I would even suggest going so far as to create a bind to automatically tell their $target what the player's feelings are, if it's such a strong personal opinion. Politely, of course, because no one wants to escalate the issue, right?

[ACFU]

[_NOPE_]

LOL, old school.

[Healix]

While playing yesterday, I accidentally 'arrested' a baddie in a group before I realized that someone else had 'dibs' on them. I would never do that on purpose and apologized, then went looking elsewhere.

Back on live in the early days on Triumph, there was a particular group of players who were a bunch of a-hole griefers. They would kill steal, port high-level baddies into a group of lowbie characters (sometimes over and over) and so much more. To them, it was hilarious. (They were reported so many times, the individuals finally got banned from the game.)

My point is that I promised myself I would never purposely do something to anyone that would spoil gameplay for them. The CoH community on a whole is just the best and I can't count the times that I have been helped, so I like to pay it forward.

 

Kill stealing? Griefing? Harassing? Pretending to be a GM when you are not?

 

 

[Oubliette_Red]

I spent a good amount of time yesterday using my lvl 40 brute to taunt enemies so lower level players could pound on them with impunity.

 

Drive by buffs in lowbie areas is one of my favorite things to do.

 

I miss ninja buffing... I should start doing that again. :)

 

Always enjoyed Ninja Buffing, Often I would join lowbie teams with my L50 Kin or Emp and just keep buffing the hell out of them.

 

[Kelador]

New people to online gaming and a few that have been around...joining in killing a mob when you have not been asked, or are not on a party with the person killing a set of mobs is called Kill Stealing and is GREATLY frowned upon by most players. I realize you might think you are helping but please do not do so. You may "Need that mob to complete your mission, go find another set as it is rude and disrespectful to the player already engaged with the set of mobs. Thank You

 

I honestly never remember anyone ever complaining about this back in the Live days.... boy has social online games changed.... Now its I want to play an online social based game but all by myself unless I need something from you.... I blame games catering too much to the solo players its destroyed the soul of what an online game is meant to be...

 

If someone comes along and helps you deal with it... Its not frowned upon.... That person is playing the game in a social way they are not out to steal kills blablabla

[Rumors]

If somebody swings by and we both end up engaging on the same enemy or group or whatever, no big deal.  If people follow me around and fight the same stuff while refusing to team, especially if the enemies are gray to them, then that's an entirely different story and is effectively harrassement.

 

Now, by the way, there is always the legitimate excuse no matter what.  And that is "oops".  For example I had a 10 kill troll quest on my Warshade, and I just leveled up, so I hopped into squid form and found a nice, juicy gray-con group.  So I immediately targeted the middle and fired my AoE blast.  But, as I clicked the button, I noticed a lowbie charging in to fight them.  I stretched my arms out and cried in despair as my shot sailed through the air, but no amount of sheepishness or apology would ever bring that Dark Detonation back to me.  It had left, it was gone, as it had chosen its course in life.  It exploded, killing all the trolls in one shot, and left the lowbie with no XP.

 

 

 

It's not hard to accidentally attack mobs you're hunting that've been engaged by someone else, especially if you're trying to rush and especially if you're flying or jumping since you won't have the best camera angle to see the situation before opening fire.

[HelenCarnate]

Stealing implies taking something that belongs to someone else.  Sorry but is impossible to steal a kill in this game.  If you burn down 100% of the mobs health, you get 100% of the xp.  If you burn down 10% then someone comes along and 1 shots it, you only did 10% of the work and get 10% of the credit.  You still get badge and mission credit so you still got the kill as far as the game is concerned, you just get lower rewards because your contribution was lower.  Honestly telling people how to behave on an internet forum never changes behavior.  I would suggest this.

 

[wjrasmussen]

XP and infamy rewards from killing a mob are based on the percent of the enemy's life you damage.

 

If an enemy is standing in a fire patch and goes down to 25% health, and you kill it - you only get 25% of the XP and Inf, even if no other player attacked it. If you and another player (Not on your team) each do 50% damage to a mob, each of you get 50% XP and Inf.

 

That said, 'kill stealing' is a super minor thing to be upset about in this game because you'll both get mission credit for defeated enemies and even if someone does tag a mob you almost have killed, you'll still get the bulk of the credit and be able to move on to other enemies that much faster. Even then, it's rarely ever worth grinding outdoor mobs for XP/Inf versus just doing newspaper/scanner missions. The only real reason I could see that you'd want to farm specific enemies in an outdoor area is to farm salvage drops, and those are so random it seems like it's better to just do missions and buy what you need from the AH.

 

If you are on a team, the XP and Inf is shared no matter what - otherwise defenders and healers would get shafted.

 

Sometimes, in some areas, there are missions for outdoor stuff that are simply limited. A few that I can think of off the top of my head are many of the 'Kill X enemies of Y type' missions, such as Agent Carter's missions in Mercy (Kill 15 longbow, destroy 5 legacy chain runes, etc) or the anti-Vahzilok missions in Atlas Park where you have to find and kill several of them outside a charity event. Sometimes those specific enemies are easy to find in groups, other times they're semi-rare or not spawning for whatever reason. In those instances, getting mad that someone else hit an enemy you're fighting seems a bit petty. Yes, they took a tiny fraction of the reward from you - but they're just trying to get past that mission same as you. Sooner or later your contact will be giving you an indoor mission that nobody else can access unless they're on your team, so you can move at your own pace and not worry about it.

 

It does not matter why it is done...it does not even matter who gets the kill...it is RUDE and DISRESPECTFUL and there is NO excuse for it...you can attempt to justify the behavior if you want to, but it is still not acceptable behavior online. If you are in that big of a hurry, maybe online gaming is not the place for you!

 

Hey Everybody, this is Hangover's game.  Yes, COH is City of Hangover's Heroes.

 

Get over yourself.