Extend Teleport's Float Time

[PaxArcana]

8 hours ago, Foxfyre said:

This was already done on Live.  Teleport was given a short amount of hover time after completing a Teleport.

... and the OP is asking for that time to be extended, even longer.

[Redlynne]

46 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

... and the OP is asking for that time to be extended, even longer.

Which is only an acceptable answer ... IF AND ONLY IF ... there is a "manual override" method available for cancelling that extended duration.  Absent that "manual override" option ... suggestion declined.

[Zepp]

There have been four proposals for addressing both sides of this double-headed issue: the need for TP fall protection and the need to eliminate "Hover Tar" (thank you Steampunkette for coining that term).

It is important to address both issues because changing one could affect the other.

On 9/13/2019 at 8:10 PM, GM Sijin said:

Counter suggestion (though probably much more difficult to implement):

Teleport grants you ~6 seconds of hover after the teleport. However, if you activate any movement it's cancelled immediately.

On 9/13/2019 at 10:51 PM, Steampunkette said:

Reduce the Hover component of Teleport to .05 seconds (plus animation time).

 

Alter the power to create a hovering, stationary, pseudopet at the teleportation location which grants a 3ft radius nonstacking Self+Ally Hover effect for 6 seconds (plus the duration of the teleport animation) with a hover speed of 20ft and an application cycle of .02 seconds. Basically it keeps casting the power every 2 hundredths of a second but none of them stack, just to make sure the player gets 'caught' when their personal teleport-hover runs out after 5 hundredths of a second

 

If you move your character you exit the Hover-zone and start falling/walking/whatever under your own power.

13 hours ago, Zepp said:

New idea... change Fly 100% to Fly 10% and remove the -100% FlySpd. Extend Fly time to 8s. That way you if you have hover or fly you don't have "Hover-Tar" but it doesn't buff hover (much) either. Also, a small reduction in endurance cost would be nice as well...

13 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

Here's an alternate solution:

Change Teleport entirely.  When you choose the power, you get a toggle that works exactly like Hover for movement .... and, as with Mystic Flight, you get a Teleportation power you can then use, for as long as the toggle is active.  (Reduce Teleport's END cost slightly, maybe by 5% or 10%, to reflect the cost of the Hover-analog toggle.)

 

No more "Hover-Tar", and no more needing to dip into another pool to make Teleportation safe.

It does not appear that there is much opposition to dealing with these issues. The question is which is the better solution, or is there a solution that hasn't been proposed yet that is better. The objections that have sprung up are all related to addressing one issue and making the other issue worse (adding time to the hover tar would make TP safer, but would make hover tar all that more annoying).

 

So, which solution is the better solution?

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by Zepp
To include the suggestion by PaxArcana

[PaxArcana]

9 minutes ago, Zepp said:

So, which solution is the better solution?

The one you didn't quote - mine.

 

Make Teleport work like Mystic Flight.  You get a toggle that is a direct copy of Hover; when it's active, you get a "bonus" power that lets you Teleport.  The teleport is slightly reduced in END cost, since you couldn't use it without spending END on the Hover part anymore.

EDIT: also, Mystic Flight's teleport should only go half as far, per END spent, as actual Teleport does.

Edited September 14, 2019 by PaxArcana

[Steampunkette]

My solution was an implementation method for GM Sijn's proffered idea. 

 

And Pax? Your solution increases the value of the Teleport Pool -substantially-. Specifically because it allows Hovertanking to be paired with recall friend and teleport without dipping into two power pools. 

 

That's a bit too much, I feel, when there's other, less extreme, options like Sijin's suggestion and my implementation of it. No additional power added to teleport, but increased hovertime post-teleport without hovertar. We could set the hovertime to 20 seconds. Or a minute. Just have that little floating hover-granting pseudopet hang out in the sky while you go on your merry way.

[PaxArcana]

10 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

And Pax? Your solution increases the value of the Teleport Pool -substantially-. Specifically because it allows Hovertanking to be paired with recall friend and teleport without dipping into two power pools. 

You can already get full Flight, plus Teleport, via Mystic Flight.  Yes, you're back at two power pools ... but honestly, anyone who doesn't plan to "Hovertank" is already better-advised to just get Mystic Flight, and skip Teleport altogether, anyway.

 

So, hell.  Make the Hover that you get free with Teleport cost as much as full flight (and heavily discount the Teleport END cost accordingly).  Then it won't be so attractive for in-combat use.

[ZeeHero]

This is a joke right? the float makes you SO SLOW that I want it removed or shortened, not made LONGER!

[Steampunkette]

5 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

You can already get full Flight, plus Teleport, via Mystic Flight.  Yes, you're back at two power pools ... but honestly, anyone who doesn't plan to "Hovertank" is already better-advised to just get Mystic Flight, and skip Teleport altogether, anyway.

 

So, hell.  Make the Hover that you get free with Teleport cost as much as full flight (and heavily discount the Teleport END cost accordingly).  Then it won't be so attractive for in-combat use.

That could work, sure. The increase to cost. 

 

Or we could do it my way and you're not getting 2 powers when you take 1 power, complete with pop-up action bar.

[ZeeHero]

Why do people want this? the "hover" after a teleport is a annoying 2 second period of being so slow you barely move. Can we make it shorter, not longer? or make it so you're not as painfully slow?

[Steampunkette]

9 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

Why do people want this? the "hover" after a teleport is a annoying 2 second period of being so slow you barely move. Can we make it shorter, not longer? or make it so you're not as painfully slow?

People who have high lag want to make it longer so they don't fall. I'm comfortable with that, so long as the Hover Tar is removed before or during the process. GM Sijin suggested we should make it a hover that breaks if you try to move, which could be done in the same way as Shadowy Presence, I suppose, if it's possible to adapt that specific code..

 

But I suggested a way to make the hover last 10 seconds, or 20 seconds. So that there's still a timer on it, but when you move the hover ends using a Pseudopet. No more Hover Tar in either case.

[Zepp]

Sorry @PaxArcana I did not initially catch your suggestion. That being said, I do not think it is reasonable, also the other options do not cause the annoying pop-up bar... To clarify your proposal, do you want a full-on hover + TP? Why would anyone take hover then?

[EyeLuvBooks]

3 hours ago, Zepp said:

There have been four proposals for addressing both sides of this double-headed issue: the need for TP fall protection and the need to eliminate "Hover Tar" (thank you Steampunkette for coining that term).

It is important to address both issues because changing one could affect the other.

It does not appear that there is much opposition to dealing with these issues. The question is which is the better solution, or is there a solution that hasn't been proposed yet that is better. The objections that have sprung up are all related to addressing one issue and making the other issue worse (adding time to the hover tar would make TP safer, but would make hover tar all that more annoying).

 

So, which solution is the better solution?

 

Initially I suggested what I thought would be the simplest solution so as to not tax the development team any further than necessary. After reading through the rest of the thread I can see that there is more to be considered than simply doing it the 'easy way.'

 

Despite the fact that there is precedence for it in the Sorcery Pool, I am opposed to the idea of a single power that is essentially Hover with a Teleport component simply because Hover would then become and orphan power. However, IF, as was suggested we raise the End cost of the power to a point comparable with a Hover/Teleport combo then those that merely use Hover as KB defense or a mule for IO sets can still take it while those that actually want to use it to move can still do so. I believe Pax suggested that we raise the cost of the Hover component to equal Fly (making it too expensive for typical Hover uses) but reduce the cost of the Teleport which works fine for me.

 

My initial argument was, and still is, that even with the superior computers and internet connections we have now there are still circumstances where Teleport is an unreliable travel power by comparison to all of the others. I was simply looking for parity between the powers is all.

 

I appreciate all of the great ideas and understand why my 'simple' solution not only is NOT the best one but might be one of the WORST of the lot. Thanks for contributing.

[PaxArcana]

2 hours ago, Zepp said:

Why would anyone take hover then?

Why does anyone take Flight, or Teleport, when you can take just Mystic Flight, and do both at once? 🙂

[GM Sijin]

28 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

Why does anyone take Flight, or Teleport, when you can take just Mystic Flight, and do both at once? 🙂

Because the flight pool has access to hover and afterburner; while teleport pool has recall friend and translocation is not able to be slotted; and some times you don't have room for one more pool in your build. Plus, assuming translocation has the same endurance cost as teleport (can't verify atm), flight + unenhanced teleport eats a whole lotta endurance. 

 

Similar to that people absolutely would still take hover, for a variety of reasons.

 

That said, frankly the teleport pool in general could do with some love.

[Zepp]

There was a discussion on the original forums about making a Combat Teleport. I think the only one that put together a full proposal was -Urchin-.
Now, I would include a 15s Defensive bonus on top of the proposal, to make it fell closer to Combat Jumping or Hover.

There was also discussion of the problems of lag protection, hover tar, and excessive endurance cost too, so this is something that has been a known issue for more than half a decade...
 

[PaxArcana]

3 hours ago, GM Sijin said:

That said, frankly the teleport pool in general could do with some love.

That's been true since Issue 3, at least.  😄  And I say that, despite my main back on Live being a Teleporter.

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

That's been true since Issue 3, at least.  😄  And I say that, despite my main back on Live being a Teleporter.

Give teleport foe a disorient effect or maybe a defense debuff/tohit debuff (to represent said disorientation).

 

Give team teleport a defense buff to all affected allies.

 

What if regular teleport generate a PBAoE knockdown if you appear next to enemies?

 

How about having recall friend grant a very brief period of stealth to allies teleported by it?

[Steampunkette]

Honestly... I feel like Teleportation -should- have a dual-use-power in it... but not Hover/Teleport.

 

I think it needs Teleport and Combat Teleport.

 

Combat Teleport should work like Burst of Speed. You get 2-3 uses within a minute and thirty or whatever but the range is shorter and the animation is -much- shorter. MAYBE add in a short-duration defense buff... but nothing bigger than that.

 

No PBAoE Damage effect. No stun or slow or anything applied to others. Just a nice and simple way to use the power within the confines of combat without hovertar or a long animation leaving you vulnerable.

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Honestly... I feel like Teleportation -should- have a dual-use-power in it... but not Hover/Teleport.

 

I think it needs Teleport and Combat Teleport.

 

Combat Teleport should work like Burst of Speed. You get 2-3 uses within a minute and thirty or whatever but the range is shorter and the animation is -much- shorter. MAYBE add in a short-duration defense buff... but nothing bigger than that.

 

No PBAoE Damage effect. No stun or slow or anything applied to others. Just a nice and simple way to use the power within the confines of combat without hovertar or a long animation leaving you vulnerable.

What if "combat teleport" didn't have any hover effect, had a much shorter animation, but also only a 10' distance.  Don't give it a cooldown, but perhaps have the end cost slowly escalate each time you use it, which resets once you're out of combat...

[Steampunkette]

7 minutes ago, biostem said:

What if "combat teleport" didn't have any hover effect, had a much shorter animation, but also only a 10' distance.  Don't give it a cooldown, but perhaps have the end cost slowly escalate each time you use it, which resets once you're out of combat...

Might be a little bit too fiddly... I'm pointing at stuff that already exists to try and make it easier.

 

I don't know any power that increases in cost when used, and the only method of incressing cost by buff/debuff I'm aware of is an endurance discount penalty, which would affect the whole character.

[0th Power]

What if you could slot a flight enhancement to increase the hover time?

[Redlynne]

Flight enhancement only increases the flight speed, not the duration of the buff that makes flight "happen" to you.

[Zepp]

I think that we need to keep this thread about fixing TP, and move the broader discussion to another thread...

[Crysta Clear]

I don't understand why the OP wants increased hover time after teleporting in the first place. If you lag yourself into 46 falling damage, that's both inconsequential in the large scheme of things, and entirely on your Internet connection. If you're really upset about taking 46 falling damage because your connection is spotty, there is nothing anyone can do that will solve your actual problem.

[Haijinx]

Id be for 0 float time.  I tried to use teleport as an in combat thing ala Cloak or Nightcrawler but the float ruined it. 

 

Id love for there to be a io proc or null the gull setting that let you do 0 float. 

 

Maybe make it PVE only or something.