Remove or drastically reduce the endurance cost from travel powers.

[Neogumbercules]

I don't remember if this is actually already happening, so bear with me. Travel powers such as Super Jump, Super Speed, and Fly suppress during combat. I don't remember about Teleport tbh. 

 

So your situation is out of combat, it's irrelevant because you're not in combat and the cost is maintainable. In combat, the power suppresses and becomes useless so you're paying endurance for nothing. A lot of players would like to leave their travel powers toggled on in combat, but those powers do nothing but drain end. 

 

My suggestion is to remove the endurance cost of them all together because it logically doesn't make sense to have one. Unless someone can think of a reason why and explain it to me. Or if this is already happening and my shower thought is useless. 

[Steampunkette]

Parts of the power suppress, but not all of it.

 

Flight in combat is slower, sure, but you're still 20ft off the ground and out of range of enemy melee attacks, making it a -powerful- defensive tool. And while Superspeed's Speed is reduced, I -think- you still get the stealth bonus, right? Which reduces additional aggro.

 

Teleport isn't surpressed 'cause it's not a toggle. And Superjump just gets it's values lowered, not canned, so it's still 'somewhat' beneficial in certain situations to maintain it being on, or toggle it on, so you can jump over a wall of NPCs that have you in a corner.

 

That said... I mostly agree... I think Fly's cost should stay just about the same, but Superspeed and Superjump's costs should get reduced.

 

So should Teleport's, but that has more to do with it being a travel power you can't get across a zone with unless you've slotted heavily for end or you're willing to stop teleporting for a few seconds to recover some endurance. It's cost is just too damned high!

 

Maybe give it a range-penalty when you're in combat, now that we have the in-combat/out-of-combat mechanic functioning.

[quixoteprog]

14 minutes ago, Neogumbercules said:

My suggestion is to remove the endurance cost of them all together because it logically doesn't make sense to have one. Unless someone can think of a reason why and explain it to me. Or if this is already happening and my shower thought is useless. 

I think the idea for having them cost endurance when you use them is to make them work like ever other power?

 

All kidding aside, I can definitely agree, however, that if their effectiveness is reduced when in combat then their end. cost should be reduced as well.

[Zepp]

I don't think endurance costs are overly high for any travel power other than Teleport...

[DR_Mechano]

Teleport is the only power I could see needing an endurance cost reduction, when you first get it at low level, you can teleport like 5 times before it empties your endurance bar, combined with the fact that in order to get the most out of teleport you also need to take hover means its one of the few travel powers in game that needs both slotting for endurance reduction AND range in order to get the most out of it, the other travel powers only require the base slot.

[MunkiLord]

I leave Super Speed on while fighting for some of my characters, so I'm not opposed to this at all. But to deal with the issue I set up binds to toggle travel powers. If it's Super Speed I'll use one to toggle it on or off. If it's a power that turns off Combat Jumping, like Super Jump or Ninja run, I use a bind to switch between the two. The Ninja Run/Combat Jumping bind is saved to my default bind file as I take both of those powers on every character.

[Vanden]

I would rather they remove suppression outside of PvP and make the endurance cost in combat justifiable.

[Neogumbercules]

1 hour ago, Vanden said:

I would rather they remove suppression outside of PvP and make the endurance cost in combat justifiable.

This would be cool too. 

 

What if they allowed us to bind power exec to combat status. 

 

Powerexec_incombat hover. 

Powerexec_outofcombat fly

[PaxArcana]

Suppressed Superspeed is still faster than Sprint.

 

5 hours ago, Vanden said:

I would rather they remove suppression outside of PvP and make the endurance cost in combat justifiable.

PvP isn't all of why Suppression exists.

 

Drive-by attacks on NPCs was a large part of it, too.  I think it was even MOST of the reasoning behind it.

[biostem]

Isn't flight's end cost and suppressed speed kind of why there's hover in the first place - as a combat alternative?  It'd be nice if teleport could lose the temporary hover/immobilize, if and when you don't want it.  There's already sprint as an alternative to SS while in combat, (and we all get swift for free).  Similarly, SJ has CJ...

[PaxArcana]

55 minutes ago, biostem said:

Isn't flight's end cost and suppressed speed kind of why there's hover in the first place - as a combat alternative? 

Nope.

 

Originally, you couldn't just snag a Travel Power and ignore the rest of the Pool.  If you wanted Flight, you had to take either Hover or Air Superiority first. If you wanted Teleport, you had to get either Recall Friend or Teleport Foe first.  And so forth.  Way back in the day when you had to be level 14 to get that travel power at all, too.

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

Nope.

 

Originally, you couldn't just snag a Travel Power and ignore the rest of the Pool.  If you wanted Flight, you had to take either Hover or Air Superiority first. If you wanted Teleport, you had to get either Recall Friend or Teleport Foe first.  And so forth.  Way back in the day when you had to be level 14 to get that travel power at all, too.

Yes, I'm aware of that.  What I mean is that hover is the combat flight power, (heck, I think Peacebringers even call their version that)...

Edited September 17, 2019 by biostem

[macskull]

I dunno, it's pretty trivial to toggle on/off travel powers with a keybind, and even with PvE travel suppression Hurdle + Combat Jumping doesn't suppress and gives you excellent movement control.

[MunkiLord]

16 minutes ago, macskull said:

I dunno, it's pretty trivial to toggle on/off travel powers with a keybind, and even with PvE travel suppression Hurdle + Combat Jumping doesn't suppress and gives you excellent movement control.

I take Combat Jumping on every single character without exception. Back in the day I skipped Stamina on a couple characters, but never Combat Jumping. It's my favorite power in the game.

[biostem]

16 minutes ago, macskull said:

I dunno, it's pretty trivial to toggle on/off travel powers with a keybind, and even with PvE travel suppression Hurdle + Combat Jumping doesn't suppress and gives you excellent movement control.

I agree.  The problem, as I see it, is that many builds are very tight, so people don't want to "waste" a power pick on hover, then slot it up to provide a better movement speed while in combat;  They'd rather petition to have regular flight turned into something that would function the same way, but with only 1 power pick.  Personally, I don't think there is enough weight with regard to power picks as it stands, and as such, there should actually be more risk/reward/cost involved in picking your powers and when...

[Panthonca7034]

11 hours ago, Neogumbercules said:

A lot of players would like to leave their travel powers toggled on in combat, but those powers do nothing but drain end. 

 

My suggestion is to remove the endurance cost of them all together because it logically doesn't make sense to have one. Unless someone can think of a reason why and explain it to me. Or if this is already happening and my shower thought is useless. 

 

I'm not trying to be a smart Alec with the following questions I'm going to ask you... So here it goes....

 

On your Stamina slots, Do you have Endurance Modification IO enhancements slotted? (the ones that look like Training Origin but are invented) If not, I'd start slotting them if I were you, and they are the ones that have the little EKG squiggly line with dark blue coloring.

 

Second, for the "Endurance draining" power, do you have Endurance Reduction IO, TO, DO, or ATO Enhancements equipped on said power that is sapping your endurance? If not, I would equip those on that trouble power (if they can be slotted of course), IO (Invention Origin), TO (Training Origin), DO (Dual Origin), ATO (Archetype Origin). The IO for reduction is an EKG squiggly line with a pastel blue color, and all the others should have a similar color background in the back.

 

Before recommending any kind of code modification for issues such as this, I'd look into enhancements, because code modification (unless geared to fix a serious bug, or crashing-type issue) could break something later down the line.

 

I once was HIGHLY oblivious to the purpose of enhancements or to what and how I needed to equip them, or WHAT I needed to equip so I wouldn't keep getting nuked every time I went on a mission, and learning about enhancements has helped me survive situations that shouldn't quite be survivable (one example, an encounter with sorceress Serene and Lamashtu, another example, a battle with Protean and the clone 🙂)

 

I hope this provides some insight and helps you with your endurance issue.

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Panthonca7034
Punctuation error and changing noun from singular to plural

[Razor Cure]

23 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I take Combat Jumping on every single character without exception. Back in the day I skipped Stamina on a couple characters, but never Combat Jumping. It's my favorite power in the game.

This. Until you have tried playing with SS and CJ going, you havent lived. The control and smoothness and just..the feeling is amazing. Sure, SS is still suppressed when you move, but with the extra boost from cj, any bad guys you need to move to (or away from) are quickly in range,

 

ALso, I love seeing stupid melee players who leave SJ on when fighting (cause they were REALLY silly and took it without combat jumping, which is waaay better for slotting too) and running out of end in about 5 seconds. The End cost is part of the powers..being meant to be used for TRAVEL. That said, a lower end cost on anything is never bad.

[Vanden]

4 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

PvP isn't all of why Suppression exists.

 

Drive-by attacks on NPCs was a large part of it, too.  I think it was even MOST of the reasoning behind it.

PvP is most of it. Suppression wasn't added until after PvP, where it's the biggest concern. The AI isn't overly inconvenienced by it, having computer reflexes as it does. You can exploit jousting to defeat the AI more safely than standing and fighting, but it also takes longer, so it's not an unbalancing strategy.

4 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

Suppressed Superspeed is still faster than Sprint.

Super Speed provides absolutely no movement benefits while suppressed.

[MunkiLord]

42 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

This. Until you have tried playing with SS and CJ going, you havent lived. The control and smoothness and just..the feeling is amazing. Sure, SS is still suppressed when you move, but with the extra boost from cj, any bad guys you need to move to (or away from) are quickly in range,

This is what I do on my Arch/Time Blaster and I love it.

[Neogumbercules]

1 hour ago, Panthonca7034 said:

 

I'm not trying to be a smart Alec with the following questions I'm going to ask you... So here it goes....

 

On your Stamina slots, Do you have Endurance Modification IO enhancements slotted? (the ones that look like Training Origin but are invented) If not, I'd start slotting them if I were you, and they are the ones that have the little EKG squiggly line with dark blue coloring.

 

Second, for the "Endurance draining" power, do you have Endurance Reduction IO, TO, DO, or ATO Enhancements equipped on said power that is sapping your endurance? If not, I would equip those on that trouble power (if they can be slotted of course), IO (Invention Origin), TO (Training Origin), DO (Dual Origin), ATO (Archetype Origin). The IO for reduction is an EKG squiggly line with a pastel blue color, and all the others should have a similar color background in the back.

 

Before recommending any kind of code modification for issues such as this, I'd look into enhancements, because code modification (unless geared to fix a serious bug, or crashing-type issue) could break something later down the line.

 

I once was HIGHLY oblivious to the purpose of enhancements or to what and how I needed to equip them, or WHAT I needed to equip so I wouldn't keep getting nuked every time I went on a mission, and learning about enhancements has helped me survive situations that shouldn't quite be survivable (one example, an encounter with sorceress Serene and Lamashtu, another example, a battle with Protean and the clone 🙂)

 

I hope this provides some insight and helps you with your endurance issue.

 

Hey no offense taken. I have been playing since I4 and am fully aware of the enhancement system including IOs/Crafting/etc but thank you for taking the time to offer helpful advice. 

[macskull]

1 hour ago, Vanden said:

PvP is most of it. Suppression wasn't added until after PvP, where it's the biggest concern. The AI isn't overly inconvenienced by it, having computer reflexes as it does. You can exploit jousting to defeat the AI more safely than standing and fighting, but it also takes longer, so it's not an unbalancing strategy.

Super Speed provides absolutely no movement benefits while suppressed.

There is no travel suppression in PvP, FYI.

[Vanden]

15 minutes ago, macskull said:

There is no travel suppression in PvP, FYI.

This was such a patently ridiculous claim on its face I had to test it myself, but you're right, there really is no travel suppression in PvP. In light of that I don't understand why we have travel suppression at all.

[PaxArcana]

44 minutes ago, Vanden said:

This was such a patently ridiculous claim on its face I had to test it myself, but you're right, there really is no travel suppression in PvP. In light of that I don't understand why we have travel suppression at all.

Because the devs at the time felt that Jousting was trivializing PvE combats.

[Megajoule]

2 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

Because the devs at the time felt that Jousting was trivializing PvE combats.

True.  I was there, I remember.

 

Also, I note that Endurance costs were already reduced once, back on Live.  Used to be that putting an End-Redux in your travel power(s), or being sure to toggle it off when fighting, was not optional if you wanted to keep a blue bar.

[PaxArcana]

46 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

Also, I note that Endurance costs were already reduced once, back on Live.  Used to be that putting an End-Redux in your travel power(s), or being sure to toggle it off when fighting, was not optional if you wanted to keep a blue bar.

... and that was before ED, when you could six-slot Stamina with EndMods ...