Scrapper Melee Primary Testing: "Standard" environment

[Galaxy Brain]

The main things holding Fire Melee back are the lack of well.... strengths that Fire Blast has.

 

FB has easy to apply AoE and ST with lightning fast Fireball and Blaze, while FM has slow applications of similar powers. Hell, just making Fire Breath a clone of Frost would immediately make the set 3x better, let alone speeding up GFS

[hejtmane]

On 1/25/2021 at 1:48 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

The main things holding Fire Melee back are the lack of well.... strengths that Fire Blast has.

 

FB has easy to apply AoE and ST with lightning fast Fireball and Blaze, while FM has slow applications of similar powers. Hell, just making Fire Breath a clone of Frost would immediately make the set 3x better, let alone speeding up GFS

One can dream I would love that type of update to Fire Breath

[ninja surprise]

On 1/19/2021 at 3:47 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

D TIER: ENERGY MELEE / MARTIAL ARTS / FIERY MELEE

This tier has two sets that are ST specialists, so it's no surprise that in the x8 test they'd be lower... but it's concerning seeing Fiery Melee down here. The whole set is themed around "f it, just all offense!" but.... even when you are set to be invincible it is not topping the charts like Fire Blast is on Blasters by itself. The AoE is either slow with it's longish cooldown, or too narrow to utilize well even when you got tons of targets. The ST was also kind of slow with DoT's or GFS's animation... it just really lacks the oomph you'd expect.

 

Fire Melee makes me sad.  I ran it up on a Scrapper, then a Tank, and now on a Brute, trying to get it to where it feels like it's burninating the baddies. But it's just slow.  It works on a tank because I'm basically just wasting time 'till the team catches up anyway, but on a Scrapper I want to one-shot things and see Minions topple by the dozen.

On 1/25/2021 at 12:48 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

FB has easy to apply AoE and ST with lightning fast Fireball and Blaze, while FM has slow applications of similar powers. Hell, just making Fire Breath a clone of Frost would immediately make the set 3x better, let alone speeding up GFS

 

Or if they used the Blackstar animation and made it Fart of Fire, the only backwards-cone in the game!

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by ninja surprise
trying to be funny lol

[PainX]

On 1/30/2021 at 8:38 PM, ninja surprise said:

Or if they used the Blackstar animation and made it Fart of Fire, the only backwards-cone in the game!

 

hah just saw this please do my scrapper is named Fartfire

[Rokkeb]

I must play savage melee wrong, cause it consistently scores high on your tests but it seems like such a lethargic, weak set to me. I've got a couple different savage up into the 40's but i just can't continue on them, cause it seems like nothing ever dies. 

[Galaxy Brain]

On 2/26/2021 at 10:44 PM, Rokkeb said:

I must play savage melee wrong, cause it consistently scores high on your tests but it seems like such a lethargic, weak set to me. I've got a couple different savage up into the 40's but i just can't continue on them, cause it seems like nothing ever dies. 

What is your gameplan running into mobs? A factor that is not considered here is the damage type as the punching bags have no inherent resistances, certain enemies resist lethal quite a bit!

[Rokkeb]

29 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

What is your gameplan running into mobs? A factor that is not considered here is the damage type as the punching bags have no inherent resistances, certain enemies resist lethal quite a bit!

Typically i use savage leap to get into mobs and if i have a lot of a AOE i try and use the combo spender aoe at 4 stacks, unless my build up thing is off CD so i can just reset my stacks after getting exhausted. I try to never get exhauseted cause I"ve found. I've stopped using hemo for the most part and respec'd out of it on most characters. I think only my sav/wp brute has a snipe that i use in rotation atm. 

 

basically i just try and build and spend at 4 stacks and not end up exhausted I don't target any specific content trying to find mobs that fit my ability I just join whatever TF is LFM. 

[Elia87]

So from what the test results show, claws seems to do very good  yet i rarely see people in game that plays claws scrappers..how come? O.o

[Oysterhead]

2 hours ago, Elia87 said:

So from what the test results show, claws seems to do very good  yet i rarely see people in game that plays claws scrappers..how come? O.o

I think its decently well known among those who hit these forums up routinely that claws is top tier, but outside of that has a the misconception that its a set with 'fast but low damage' is 'all lethal' and 'poor AoE' of which only one is correct. Its fast with high damage, has excellent AoE since it can rotate its attacks so damn fast and Spin has higher damage than similar attacks, but is all lethal. 

 

Just started up on myself finally yesterday, and it is nuts, even at lower levels. Spin hits so hard and comes up so often, the blender description is truly apt. Ended up on a team with speed boost and I was running around with Follow Up double stacked the entire time. 

 

Thanks to Galaxy and all the others doing this testing to open up my eyes 😉

[Elia87]

2 hours ago, Oysterhead said:

I think its decently well known among those who hit these forums up routinely that claws is top tier, but outside of that has a the misconception that its a set with 'fast but low damage' is 'all lethal' and 'poor AoE' of which only one is correct. Its fast with high damage, has excellent AoE since it can rotate its attacks so damn fast and Spin has higher damage than similar attacks, but is all lethal. 

 

Just started up on myself finally yesterday, and it is nuts, even at lower levels. Spin hits so hard and comes up so often, the blender description is truly apt. Ended up on a team with speed boost and I was running around with Follow Up double stacked the entire time. 

 

Thanks to Galaxy and all the others doing this testing to open up my eyes 😉

Yea first of all thank you so much @Galaxy Brain for the hard work.

I am totally noob when it comes down to melee ATs, and the inner me has the "i want to wreck stuff hard" feeling that is why i wanted to try a melee AT..and claw really seems to satisfy that desire.

[SmalltalkJava]

On 1/30/2021 at 1:38 PM, ninja surprise said:

Or if they used the Blackstar animation and made it Fart of Fire, the only backwards-cone in the game!

Approved!

[Sovera]

6 hours ago, Elia87 said:

So from what the test results show, claws seems to do very good  yet i rarely see people in game that plays claws scrappers..how come? O.o

 

Because you're misunderstanding the game a bit. It's not on you though, it's just a bit different from other more mainstream MMOs who have subs or B2P, or F2P mechanics.

 

With the current CoH we can level to max extremely fast. We can gear up very fast (full T4 incarnates and most purple IO sets in two weeks). We have a thousand character slots instead of 8, or 3 and having to pay for more.

 

But then what? There isn't a tremendous lot to do. My highest 'level' is a Fire/Claws Tanker who was my first baby and it cured me of altitis for a good two months. I would log in, I would do random TFs, I would create teams for TFs, I hunted a few badges, etc etc. But there is not really a lot to do so we end up drifting back to 'well, okay, I've done Claws. What could I try next?'

 

And that's how we end with 50-70 characters.

 

The Fire/Claws has something like 90+ vet levels which is a huge amount for me. Most of my alts I would make a different character by vet level 12 or so. But even my favorite baby I eventually stopped to make something new, something different. I seldom log it nowadays. It's still one of my best characters who exemplars really well and does great damage from Posi 1 to the ITF. But once everything has been done it's trying new things that comes up.

 

So I have a second baby who is a Fire/Martial Arts Tanker and nowadays I'm usually tinkering on a Fire/Ice. Are they strictly 'better' than the Claws? Eh.

[Elia87]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

 

Because you're misunderstanding the game a bit. It's not on you though, it's just a bit different from other more mainstream MMOs who have subs or B2P, or F2P mechanics.

 

With the current CoH we can level to max extremely fast. We can gear up very fast (full T4 incarnates and most purple IO sets in two weeks). We have a thousand character slots instead of 8, or 3 and having to pay for more.

 

But then what? There isn't a tremendous lot to do. My highest 'level' is a Fire/Claws Tanker who was my first baby and it cured me of altitis for a good two months. I would log in, I would do random TFs, I would create teams for TFs, I hunted a few badges, etc etc. But there is not really a lot to do so we end up drifting back to 'well, okay, I've done Claws. What could I try next?'

 

And that's how we end with 50-70 characters.

 

The Fire/Claws has something like 90+ vet levels which is a huge amount for me. Most of my alts I would make a different character by vet level 12 or so. But even my favorite baby I eventually stopped to make something new, something different. I seldom log it nowadays. It's still one of my best characters who exemplars really well and does great damage from Posi 1 to the ITF. But once everything has been done it's trying new things that comes up.

 

So I have a second baby who is a Fire/Martial Arts Tanker and nowadays I'm usually tinkering on a Fire/Ice. Are they strictly 'better' than the Claws? Eh.

I feel you Sovera, my highest vet is my beloved beam/ta blaster at lvl76..then i got into altitis as well..I am starting to think next AT i make, possibly claw/something scrapper as you suggested, and take my time to explore cities, do story arcs and enjoy the game and not rush..

[ninja surprise]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

But then what? There isn't a tremendous lot to do. My highest 'level' is a Fire/Claws Tanker who was my first baby and it cured me of altitis for a good two months. I would log in, I would do random TFs, I would create teams for TFs, I hunted a few badges, etc etc. But there is not really a lot to do so we end up drifting back to 'well, okay, I've done Claws. What could I try next?'

 

And that's how we end with 50-70 characters.

 

I have at least 2 Claws characters and they are a ton of fun.

Then while running a TF or random team I'll see another character blasting away and think, "Hey, I don't have one of those yet that looks like fun..."

 

Happily I learned about the "Search by powers/AT" on the character sector screen and that has prevented a lot of duplication because I can search for powersets I've already created toons with, instead of creating another alt with the same powers as a previous alt. I can pull up the old one, add a few more levels, then go to another alt.

[Elia87]

1 hour ago, ninja surprise said:

 

I have at least 2 Claws characters and they are a ton of fun.

Then while running a TF or random team I'll see another character blasting away and think, "Hey, I don't have one of those yet that looks like fun..."

 

Happily I learned about the "Search by powers/AT" on the character sector screen and that has prevented a lot of duplication because I can search for powersets I've already created toons with, instead of creating another alt with the same powers as a previous alt. I can pull up the old one, add a few more levels, then go to another alt.

What are those claws as secondary? 

[ninja surprise]

6 hours ago, Elia87 said:

What are those claws as secondary? 

 

Claws/Bio and /SR. Both are lvl 50 + some incarnate stuff.

I think I like the Claws/SR more for the non-stop scratch action.

Vs. the Bio where I have to keep clicking heals. But I do like having a damage aura...

 

I wish a defense armor set had a damage aura.

[Elia87]

5 hours ago, ninja surprise said:

 

Claws/Bio and /SR. Both are lvl 50 + some incarnate stuff.

I think I like the Claws/SR more for the non-stop scratch action.

Vs. the Bio where I have to keep clicking heals. But I do like having a damage aura...

 

I wish a defense armor set had a damage aura.

Hmmm SR i have a stalker EM/SR but for some reasons i dont quite like it..bio seems for dmg oriented but lots of clicks.. @Sovera suggested EnA..but still have to decide

Edited May 26, 2021 by Elia87

[Oysterhead]

8 hours ago, ninja surprise said:

I wish a defense armor set had a damage aura.

Ice Armor! Defensive + Icicles damage aura.

[ninja surprise]

On 5/26/2021 at 6:06 AM, Oysterhead said:

Ice Armor! Defensive + Icicles damage aura.

 

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

I guess it's been too long since I played my DM/Ice & Spines/Ice scrappers, or my Ice/Titan, Ice/Martial Arts, and Ice/EnM Tanks... totally forgot about them being defense + damage aura. Thought I had some Ice Armor Brutes too, but must have moved them to a different shard.

 

I've been brainstorming a Temporal Armor set since Far Sight gives such good defense, and the various Temporal powersets for Defenders, Corrs, and Blasters have some good auras and attacks.

 

[ninja surprise]

On 5/26/2021 at 3:01 AM, Elia87 said:

Hmmm SR i have a stalker EM/SR but for some reasons i dont quite like it..bio seems for dmg oriented but lots of clicks.. @Sovera suggested EnA..but still have to decide

 

If you've never been on test, you can create a character there, boost it to 50, give it sets of IOs, and then run a few radios in PI in just an hour or two.  Just find a build, replicate it on test and see how you like it.  

Much less time investment than powerleveling something only to decide you don't like it.

[Rumors]

On 3/1/2021 at 4:44 PM, Rokkeb said:

Typically i use savage leap to get into mobs and if i have a lot of a AOE i try and use the combo spender aoe at 4 stacks, unless my build up thing is off CD so i can just reset my stacks after getting exhausted. I try to never get exhauseted cause I"ve found. I've stopped using hemo for the most part and respec'd out of it on most characters. I think only my sav/wp brute has a snipe that i use in rotation atm. 

 

basically i just try and build and spend at 4 stacks and not end up exhausted I don't target any specific content trying to find mobs that fit my ability I just join whatever TF is LFM. 

 

 

Super slow response, but I've literally not accessed the forums in months myself so I couldn't see this sooner, but thought I'd chime in here if you're still wondering on this.

 

This might not be as helpful for lower levels, but my usual game plan is Fireball from max range > chase it with Savage Leap (both hit about the same time) > Rending Flurry > ST chain whatever's the most threatening and Rending and Fireball off cooldown.  Second Rending Flurry usually exhausts, at which I Blood Thirst to clear it and get all my stacks back.  Third Rending Flurry exhausts too, but at that point it doesn't matter since the fight is usually close to over if it lasts that long.  DON'T BE AFRAID TO EXHAUST.  5-stack Rending Flurry is pretty awesome and its worth burning the stacks on and Blood Thirst will clear Exhaust instantly.  IMO, don't open with Blood Thirst unless you just really need the burst or you're focusing a single target, in which case you don't want to Rending anyway.

 

Single target chain is either Vicious Slash > Savage Strike > Maiming Slash > repeat or Vicious > Maiming > Savage > Maiming > repeat depending on recharge.  I think the former has higher DPS, but the latter usually feels better to me.  Either way, Savage doesn't have a big hitter for Scrappers (Hemmorage is pretty underwhelming and I skipped it, but I hear it's great on Stalkers) so you just rely on constant, steady attacks.  Shred makes for an ok gap filler earlier on when your recharge is lower, but otherwise it's a pretty significant DPS loss unless you're managing to hit max targets all the time.

 

If you reach Incarnate levels, one thing that might help is Reactive Radial on Interface, which gives a high chance for a Fire dot over time.  I took it for concept reasons (same with Pyre), but the Fire helps quite a bit with the heavily lethal resistant enemies.

 

Anyway, if you're still struggling with them and still interested in trying to make that work, then I hope that helps!

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

On 11/25/2020 at 1:56 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

 

 

 

@Galaxy Brain Incredible work as always. I always enjoy reading your findings, truely a pleasure

Ive taken a bit of a break from the game more recently, trying to get back into it.

Whats your take on Martial Arts as a set? Seems to do quite well with a good IO build, but its AoE is just so bad it seems that its doomed to be near the bottom of most testing lists

[Oysterhead]

15 hours ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

Whats your take on Martial Arts as a set? Seems to do quite well with a good IO build, but its AoE is just so bad it seems that its doomed to be near the bottom of most testing lists

A nod in MA's favor for its AoE is that its PBAoE will take a Force Feedback +recharge proc, so you can have it refreshing very fast. If you haven't seen them, Sovera has what he calls his Brunker builds, which are tankers that play more like scrappers, and his current guide (it rotates) is for Fire/MA. I played it through to 50 and it was a lot of fun, MA is a fast set that feels great to play, and Fire armor fixes the lack of area damage in a big way. Doesn't directly translate to Scrappers, and Fire Armor isn't as impressive on Scrapper (no taunt aura makes burn annoying to use), but here's the link!

 

[Kinvesu]

@Galaxy Brain I don't know if this is still being worked on, but if it is, is there anyway we could get dates on the spreadsheet and the new energy melee, stone melee etc? It is hard to read because I am not sure which page is more recent. Like is copy of alpha gb more recent or is copy scrapper tests base? I am a newbie and this spreadsheet has helped a ton, but its just, for me, (maybe cause I am still relatively new) all over the place.

[Without_Pause]

On 5/25/2021 at 6:06 AM, Elia87 said:

So from what the test results show, claws seems to do very good  yet i rarely see people in game that plays claws scrappers..how come? O.o

Live: Claws/regen Scrapper. While not my main, it was the one I was most sentimental to. I was on common IOs. It would partly be interesting to see what it would have been like to fully IO it out back then. My guess is I would have played even fewer alts.

 

Homecoming: Claws/wp Brute. Version 2.0 since WP gave me what I wanted out of Regen in a nicer set. Claws/en Scrapper. I did this after I  got a StJ/ea Stalker to 50. It's an absolute joy to take out and blow through missions with it. Claws/en Brute. Currently level 30. Mostly just wanting to try out EA on a Brute. It's so close to flipping the switch. Maybe I'll be able to decide on the Brute version versus Scrapper, but gladly I have both. Claws/ice Scrapper. Currently level 27. I just wanted to see what it would be like to have a damage aura with Claws. I would have gone Stone if I could find a look for the character which I actually liked. I'm mostly waiting for Ice to come together a little bit more. I just really need slotting in Shockwave. Bit of a cheat, but my Fort. What an utter and complete Swiss Army Knife of destruction. I fully expect there is a Claws/sr of come kind in my future. Next would be Claws/elec, and Claws/rad.