One free travel power at character creation?

[dmaker]

This may not be a popular idea, but I was thinking about allowing us to have one free travel power selectable during character creation. This should be limited to Fly, Super Jump, Speed, and Teleport--I think Teleport is the other main travel power?

 

With this, we would no longer have to take an ancillary pool just for one power in some cases. For example, you are building a character that has Fly as part of the concept, but nothing else in Flight pool appeals to you. In this case you may have to forgo combat jumping, or something else to get fly. Would be nice if you could select one of the four main travel powers at character creation. 

 

 

Side note: can we just do away with Afterburner and make Fly speed match that of Fly+Afterburner? Even if we have to two slot Fly to achieve top speed, that would be fine. You can get some small set bonuses with two slots filled with Freebird (I think it's called). Afterburner forces to you to dump powers into Flight just so you can have a faster Fly. Seems heavy handed, to me. 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by dmaker

[Redlynne]

Um ... everyone gets Sprint and Swift by default?

Add Ninja Run or Beast Run for free from the P2W vendor?

 

What you're offering is a solution in search of a problem.

[Replacement]

29 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

Um ... everyone gets Sprint and Swift by default?

Add Ninja Run or Beast Run for free from the P2W vendor?

 

What you're offering is a solution in search of a problem. 

Dear Lord I would move both of those options to power pools if I could. I understand not having this be a priority for limited dev time, but consider what you're actually implying:

 

"I am fine with needing to wait levels and expend a power selection on a heroic and thematic travel option, while giving everyone a theme-destroying ninja run for free, that is basically mandatory out of convenience."

 

Both of those prestige travels are the poster child for revenue needs (they were sold as add-ons) damaging game fiction.

[Andrewvm]

Sorry Lynne, I dont agree completely.  Thinking in character we see that a lot of superheroes start out with a travel power and learn how to offensively use them later.

 

though with the option to get a travel power at 4 instead of 14 makes the whole point moot

[Lazarillo]

I typically don't mind having to take a travel power separately, to be honest, since they're pretty much all good out of the box, and with inherent Fitness, Enhancement slots are at a much greater premium than power slots anyway.

 

45 minutes ago, dmaker said:

Side note: can we just do away with Afterburner and make Fly speed match that of Fly+Afterburner? Even if we have to two slot Fly to achieve top speed, that would be fine. You can get some small set bonuses with two slots filled with Freebird (I think it's called). Afterburner forces to you to dump powers into Flight just so you can have a faster Fly. Seems heavy handed, to me. 

I got no beef with Afterburner either, for the reasons mentioned above, though I'd argue Mystic Flight needs...something.  Granting a teleport power sounds nice, but given the combined Endurance costs of flying and then teleporting (and the fact that no Enhancements can benefit the teleport side), it's pretty lacking.

[PaxArcana]

42 minutes ago, dmaker said:

allowing us to have one free travel power selectable during character creation.

/JRanger

 

Completely unnecessary.  Travel Powers are already so ridiculously easy to get, there is no need to start handing them out for free.

 

<--- this old-timer remembers when you couldn't get a true Travel Power until level 14 ... and even then, only if you got another power from that same pool earlier (level ... 6?  Or was it 8?)

1 minute ago, Replacement said:

Both of those prestige travels

... Sprint is not and never was a Prestige power.  It's as automatic and free-at-first-level as Brawl and Rest.  Always has been.

 

Just now, Andrewvm said:

Thinking in character we see that a lot of superheroes start out with a travel power

Comic books are not Games; you can start a comic-book hero off with all of their power, and even, as skilled as they will ever be.  For example, Batman.  Or for that matter, Superman (hell, technically Superman starts out nearly at full power when he's only a kid, long before officially becoming Superman at all).  That's because, in comics, the entire "character growth" arc can come in terms of personality, motivations, and so forth.

 

Unlike books and comics, where a character can grow into their powers internally ... in a game, that cannot be codified into the rules.  What can be codified, is a process where the character starts out relatively weak, with only a few basic powers, and then their powers do all the growing.  We start out barely more capable than "random thug with a baseball bat or pistol", and gradually grow into world-moving demigods.  (Literally demigods, once you get Incarnate powers.)

[PaxArcana]

Now ... if CoX were using something like the Mutants & Masterminds tabletop-RPG rules?  Anyone who wanted to spend points on a travel power rather than on offense and defense, sure - that's balanced; the points spend on a travel power would not be available to spend on attacks, defenses, etc.

 

But since that's not the case ... 🤷‍♂️ ...

[Redlynne]

18 minutes ago, Replacement said:

"I am fine with needing to wait levels and expend a power selection on a heroic and thematic travel option"

I'm fine with not having a (cinematic) travel power during Levels 1-3 ...

 

And I'd point out that if you take said travel power by Level 6 (either at 4 or 6) then you can Exemplar all the way down to Level 1 and still have that power.

 

So the ONLY TIME you CAN'T have a travel power is Levels 1-3 on a NEW character.  That time doesn't last that long ...

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

I frankly dont disagree with this proposal at all. A speedster should be able to start with super speed. and if you want to start with flying having to be  an obsolete and in dire need of buffing PB which I know of no few who have done just that to start with fly even if they otherwise hate PB because their RP concept demands flight at first level to feel right.  Having to give up an entire pool slot when only 1 single power in it is appealing, and needed for a thematic concept is indeed a needless restriction imo.

 

I mean lets be honest even if we do this to free up a power slot and maybe give access to a useful 4th pool not wasted entirely on a single travel power, its not going to lead to some major new height of build power vastly surpassing what is currently possible.

 

And more meta game flyer types will still likely prefer taking the fly pool for hover in combat and air superiority to nail foes to the ground so they can barrage them from the sky safely. Same with teleport. Meta gamers will still take it for the meta uses of recall friend to speed up content. Super speed, yeah only true RPers would want SS without hasten. Super Jump? Again meta gamers will want combat jump for an lotg mule at the least more often then not.

 

So this proposal really can only help RPers and really wont hurt anyone else. I suspect its meta gamers nay saying because they hate it when energy is spent on something only RPers really use like emotes and social zones etc.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 minute ago, Redlynne said:

I'm fine with not having a (cinematic) travel power during Levels 1-3 ...

 

And I'd point out that if you take said travel power by Level 6 (either at 4 or 6) then you can Exemplar all the way down to Level 1 and still have that power.

 

So the ONLY TIME you CAN'T have a travel power is Levels 1-3 on a NEW character.  That time doesn't last that long ...

This may blow your mind but there are among the role play community those that park characters at certain level ranges forever for RP purposes. I have one such player in my SG who has a toon in it that is forever locked in such a manner because RPwise its just a child with little real control over their powers. Now their concept is a psychic so no travel powers at all isnt a big issue beyond trying to get around the city for RP. However what about someone wanting to make a character like the kid speedster from the incredibles movies, That kid basically only has speed and brawl.

 

I ask again what real harm would be done to game balance to give a free travel power at lvl 1?

[Communistpenguin]

We really do not need to water the game down further. When and what you take should matter and have some repercussions in gameplay. If you want to fly you can wait till level 4.  

[Redlynne]

11 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

I ask again what real harm would be done to game balance to give a free travel power at lvl 1?

You don't see the problem with the question because ... YOU DON'T SEE THE PROBLEM WITH THE QUESTION.

[Replacement]

26 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

... Sprint is not and never was a Prestige power.  It's as automatic and free-at-first-level as Brawl and Rest.  Always has been.

How the hell did you read what I wrote and think I was talking about Sprint? 

 

"Tom Cruise Run" does not damage anyone's fiction, lol.  I was talking about Ninja Run and Beast Run.

[Rathulfr]

My initial reaction was /jranger.  But after thinking about it, I realize that my objections were based on being a crotchety old-timer: "Back in my day, we couldn't get travel powers until level 14, after we picked a prerequisite power, first.  And we liked it!"

 

But saying "no" to every idea just because "that's not the way it used to be" is kinda dumb, honestly.  There's already been lots of changes to the game over the years, and many of them we thought would be game-breaking ended up being game-enhancing (inherent Fitness, anyone?).  That said, I'd love for the travel powers [Fly, Super Jump, Super Speed, and Teleport] be moved to a separate, inherent power pool that's available at level 1.  You can pick only 1 at level 1, and the others should be unlocked after level 4, or 6, or 14, or whatever.  I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Replacement]

@Communistpenguin @Redlynne You hold to these purist views but walk up to Ms. Liberty and look around.

 

You will see at least 5 non-ninja characters pretending they're in a Naruto video game.  

 

This suggestion doesn't water down anything.  It restores the game to its rightful fiction.

[ShardWarrior]

6 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

I ask again what real harm would be done to game balance to give a free travel power at lvl 1?

I suspect the same harm that came from making the fitness pool inherent - none in the long run. 

 

Thematically this works both ways in the comics and films.  Superman leapt tall buildings in a single bound before he could fly.  Batman spent years building his mind and body before putting on the cape and cowl.   Mutants generally got more powerful over time.  There are also many examples of those who were always at their full potential from day one. 

 

Seems to me that this suggestion is sort of moot in that we can get our travel powers at level 4 which honestly doesn't take long to hit anyway.  With that said, not having flight or SS for the few minutes it takes to get to level 4 makes it almost pointless to not allow an inherent travel out of the gate.

 

Seems to me this was designed more for build balance.

 

Questions - what would happen with the rest of the powers in the travel pool sets?  Would they still be there?  I would hope so as there are some powers in them that are desirable.  What about people who for whatever reason want to take more than one travel power?

 

 

[Oubliette_Red]

17 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

This may blow your mind but there are among the role play community those that park characters at certain level ranges forever for RP purposes. I have one such player in my SG who has a toon in it that is forever locked in such a manner because RPwise its just a child with little real control over their powers. Now their concept is a psychic so no travel powers at all isn't a big issue beyond trying to get around the city for RP. However what about someone wanting to make a character like the kid speedster from the Incredibles movies, That kid basically only has speed and brawl.

 

I ask again what real harm would be done to game balance to give a free travel power at lvl 1?

What's to say Dash wasn't level 4 already when the movie came out?

[Oubliette_Red]

Why not just add normal Sprint animation to the Prestige Sprint powers?

[Lines]

17 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

My initial reaction was /jranger.  But after thinking about it, I realize that my objections were based on being a crotchety old-timer: "Back in my day, we couldn't get travel powers until level 14, after we picked a prerequisite power, first.  And we liked it!"

 

But saying "no" to every idea just because "that's not the way it used to be" is kinda dumb, honestly.  There's already been lots of changes to the game over the years, and many of them we thought would be game-breaking ended up being game-enhancing (inherent Fitness, anyone?).  That said, I'd love for the travel powers [Fly, Super Jump, Super Speed, and Teleport] be moved to a separate, inherent power pool that's available at level 1.  You can pick only 1 at level 1, and the others should be unlocked after level 4, or 6, or 14, or whatever.  I don't see anything wrong with that.

I went through the exact same thought process.

 

My only reservation is that now I'd have a power slot per character that I won't know what to do with.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Lines

[Communistpenguin]

33 minutes ago, Replacement said:

@Communistpenguin @Redlynne You hold to these purist views but walk up to Ms. Liberty and look around.

 

You will see at least 5 non-ninja characters pretending they're in a Naruto video game.  

 

This suggestion doesn't water down anything.  It restores the game to its rightful fiction.

Just because something is popular doesn't mean its required. AP is not a big zone, you can get around just fine with sprint. Level 4 happens pretty quickly, at which point you can choose to get a travel power. You mention a "rightful fiction" well what about a character without a travel power? Should they be forced to take one and sacrifice their concept to accommodate yours? I actually have two characters who will not get full travel powers, one a reroll from live who made it to the mod 40's before shutdown.

[dmaker]

51 minutes ago, Communistpenguin said:

If you want to fly you can wait till level 4

That was not my point. My point was not having to take an ancillary pool if all you want is one travel power from that pool. My suggestion was a way around that, not a way to get a power travel sooner. Getting to level 4 takes no time at all. 

 

For example, I want to build a Superman/Flying Brick build. I want CJ from Leaping. But for theme purposes, I also need Fly, the faster the better. To just get fly, I now have to use 1/4 ancillary pools and, if I want to fly as fast as the game will permit, I need to spend (is it 3 now to get Afterburner?) 3 power choices--fly, hover and afterburner. If I plan on doing melee, then I don't really want hover that much, do I? CJ is my go to there, but if I want to fly, I HAVE to use up 1/4  I must sacrifice something to be able to fly.  Whereas themes that don't require fly have no issue. CJ and SJ are things you are likely to take anyway, and they come from the same pool.  So I thought why not just strip out the 4 main travel powers and make them available right away (or level 4, or whatever) and save a power pool choice. 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by dmaker

[Replacement]

13 minutes ago, Communistpenguin said:

Just because something is popular doesn't mean its required. AP is not a big zone, you can get around just fine with sprint. Level 4 happens pretty quickly, at which point you can choose to get a travel power. You mention a "rightful fiction" well what about a character without a travel power? Should they be forced to take one and sacrifice their concept to accommodate yours? I actually have two characters who will not get full travel powers, one a reroll from live who made it to the mod 40's before shutdown.

Most characters really can't rationalize a travel power at 4, though.  It's nice they opened it up that early for those that require it for RP, but it's not optimal.  I usually just aim to get mine before 20, for example, because that's when I have enough other options to get by.

 

That's a really good point about characters that don't want a travel power at all.  Perhaps an option of "do nothing" that gives you a free extra slot for swift and hurdle would be an option.

 

If I haven't made my perspective clear enough: I'd really rather we had a prestige run that didn't affect your animations.  I just don't understand people opposed to handing out thematic travel powers but not taking issue with Ninja Running Iron Man on every corner.  It's easiest to see in Atlas Park, but don't think this means it disappears after that point.  It doesn't take much digging around to find folks who never take travel powers because Ninja Run is too good.

[MunkiLord]

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

So this proposal really can only help RPers and really wont hurt anyone else. I suspect its meta gamers nay saying because they hate it when energy is spent on something only RPers really use like emotes and social zones etc.

You're overthinking it. Meta gamers generally don't care either way about RPers. 

[Steampunkette]

So.... I'm against it.

 

Having a travel power at level 1 would be 'nice' and all, but it's really not pressing enough to destroy 4 power pools, gut 1 power pool, and either redesign them or simply remove them.

 

But allow me to offer an alternative suggestion: P2W vendor purchaseable version of Teleport, Fly, Superspeed, and Super Jump for, say, 20 million influence that lasts for 4 hours of real time and does not function after level 20.

 

That way people who really want a travel power at level 1 can mail their character some cash and go for it, but it won't allow high end built out characters to just snag a free travel power, or make Minmaxers feel like they need to respec out of the one travel power they did buy.

[dmaker]

That would be fine, but not what I was getting at. I don't care at all about a travel power at level 1. I was imagining a way to avoid spending 1/4 ancillary pools on a travel power where that one power is the only thing you want from that pool.

 

I can already get flight from P2W in the form of a jetpack. I do that for my melee toons for when they need more vertical beyond what I can get out of SJ.  But for a Superman type build, strapping on a jetpack to fly just destroys immersion.