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Posted (edited)

Here's a completely crazy and selfish idea: what if we add a smidge of +Recharge to inherent Swift, say maybe +10 to 20%?  Nothing that would compete with Hasten or other powers that grant +Recharge, but enough that might allow for some builds to skip Hasten?  The goal is to have no net effect change to Hasten or any builds that depend on Hasten, but simply to grant more freedom to folks who currently feel compelled to take Hasten to optimize their builds, so they can drop it and pick something else.

 

(edit 1) @MetaVileTerror made a good suggestion that this could scale with level, starting at 2.5% for at 1, and capping out at +10 to 20% at level 50.

 

(edit 2)  An alternative suggestion, based on the discussions in @Steampunkette's "Delete Hasten" post:

 

  1. Add 20% +Recharge global to Swift in the Fitness inherent pool.
  2. Nerf Hasten by 20%, for a base recharge rate of 50% +Recharge.

 

(edit 3)  Another alternative suggestion, that isn't as "free" as the first one: why not just add +2.5 to 5% recharge to Combat Jumping, Hover, Maneuvers, Stealth, or Weave?  That way, it isn't a straight up super-buff to everyone for nothing, but part and parcel of the trade-off decisions associated with choosing one or more of those powers?

 

[NOTE: I should point out that none of these ideas should be allowed to slot recharge enhancements: they're just flat percentage buffs without changing any slotting.]

 

Edited by Rathulfr
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@Rathstar

Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting

Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior

Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable

Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer

Posted

..Why? I mean..I am not against exatra rech, but..is there any real reason for it? With IOs, there are a stack of +rech options, and Hasten. If the entire reason for if is to allow builds to skip hasten, well, they already CAN? If you are talking builds with IOs, they will already have some +rech, even more options for that with incarnate stuff.

I have lots of builds without Hasten. It is quite overrated, depending on the power sets involved.

I just dont see a point to this, other than 'yay lets let everyone have more rech for the hell of it.'

  • Like 3
Posted (edited)

I don't think it should be a free pick. But I would like to see a power in the speed pool that would be a 10% to 20% +recharge power.  It would make a nice swapout for whirlwind (has anyone actually taken that ?)

 

If the devs weren't committed to no more mutually exclusive power pics, having a 35% passive recharge boost that you could take instead of hasten would be great as well.

Edited by TheAdjustor
  • Like 2
Posted

I already skip Hasten on pretty much all my builds, and find the general obsession with it, and/or "perma everything, zero downtime", to be ...

I have so many words I could use, but for the sake of decorum, let's go with "bothersome".

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Posted

Shouldn't be free, should be something you have to consciously take. If Fitness were still a pool and not automatic I'd agree, especially if some +something else was added to hurdle so you had a choice as opposed to needing Swift on all builds (with the normal caveat that not all builds would need it).

 

An Universal Travel IO with a scaling (to level, 10% @ 50) +recharge unique, would IMO be a better option.

  • Like 1
Posted
8 hours ago, TheAdjustor said:

I don't think it should be a free pick. But I would like to see a power in the speed pool that would be a 10% to 20% +recharge power.  It would make a nice swapout for whirlwind (has anyone actually taken that ?)

 

If the devs weren't committed to no more mutually exclusive power pics, having a 35% passive recharge boost that you could take instead of hasten would be great as well.

 

On 9/2/2019 at 8:38 AM, Cipher said:

Some Pool Power statistics:

 

Pool Powers (All Levels):

  Hide contents
Pool Power Count
Fighting Tough 64,450
Fighting Weave 52,046
Fighting Boxing 50,057
Fighting Kick 36,141
Fighting Cross Punch 4,183
Flight Fly 182,678
Flight Combat Flight 63,981
Flight Afterburner 18,983
Flight Air Superiority 7,852
Flight Group Fly 1,352
Invisibility Stealth 34,672
Invisibility Invisibility 14,884
Invisibility Grant Invisibility 9,555
Invisibility Phase Shift 4,161
Invisibility Misdirection 1,475
Leadership Maneuvers 81,608
Leadership Assault 67,619
Leadership Tactics 58,053
Leadership Vengeance 15,009
Leadership Victory Rush 9,407
Leaping Super Jump 129,071
Leaping Combat Jumping 93,131
Leaping Acrobatics 16,629
Leaping Spring Attack 6,682
Leaping Jump Kick 4,393
Manipulation Provoke 4,462
Manipulation Intimidate 2,757
Manipulation Challenge 2,723
Manipulation Unrelenting 2,036
Manipulation Invoke Panic 694
Medicine Aid Other 14,000
Medicine Aid Self 10,642
Medicine Stimulant 5,819
Medicine Field Medic 5,232
Medicine Resuscitate 3,183
Sorcery Mystic Flight 64,107
Sorcery Translocation 64,107
Sorcery Arcane Bolt 17,315
Sorcery Spirit Ward 10,231
Sorcery Rune of Protection 7,168
Sorcery Enflame 3,735
Speed Hasten 155,593
Speed Super Speed 84,821
Speed Flurry 4,183
Speed Burnout 4,094
Speed Whirlwind 1,211
Teleportation Recall Friend 34,265
Teleportation Teleport 25,523
Teleportation Teleport Foe 5,735
Teleportation Long Range Teleport 5,586

 

Pool Powers (Level 50):

  Hide contents
Set Power Count
Fighting Tough 35,901
Fighting Weave 33,975
Fighting Boxing 23,253
Fighting Kick 14,416
Fighting Cross Punch 1,797
Flight Fly 17,435
Flight Combat Flight 12,318
Flight Afterburner 6,140
Flight Air Superiority 1,314
Flight Group Fly 521
Invisibility Stealth 14,078
Invisibility Invisibility 8,231
Invisibility Grant Invisibility 5,206
Invisibility Phase Shift 3,359
Invisibility Misdirection 910
Leadership Maneuvers 34,222
Leadership Tactics 24,088
Leadership Assault 21,135
Leadership Vengeance 10,765
Leadership Victory Rush 3,790
Leaping Combat Jumping 37,287
Leaping Super Jump 25,729
Leaping Acrobatics 7,979
Leaping Spring Attack 2,532
Leaping Jump Kick 604
Manipulation Provoke 1,143
Manipulation Unrelenting 949
Manipulation Intimidate 936
Manipulation Challenge 605
Manipulation Invoke Panic 261
Medicine Aid Self 3,250
Medicine Aid Other 2,703
Medicine Field Medic 1,730
Medicine Stimulant 1,407
Medicine Resuscitate 1,128
Sorcery Mystic Flight 6,064
Sorcery Translocation 6,064
Sorcery Rune of Protection 2,872
Sorcery Spirit Ward 2,687
Sorcery Arcane Bolt 1,860
Sorcery Enflame 728
Speed Hasten 53,580
Speed Super Speed 23,968
Speed Burnout 2,331
Speed Flurry 387
Speed Whirlwind 363
Teleportation Recall Friend 9,199
Teleportation Teleport 2,761
Teleportation Long Range Teleport 1,703
Teleportation Teleport Foe 1,393
Teleportation Team Teleport 673

 


Whirlwind is second to last, behind Invoke Panic and just ahead of Flurry.

 

Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Archetype Proposal Amalgamation

Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, TheAdjustor said:

It would make a nice swapout for whirlwind (has anyone actually taken that ?)

I took it once, on a Stalker.  With a KB>KD IO it makes for a decent defensive option as melee range enemies are somewhat frequently being juggled.  Repsec'd out of it in the end since it messed up Hide, but I should've known better.  I could see it being a decent option for Brutes or Tankers.  Though it would be garbage in bigger fights where mobs generally resist KD and such.  

Edited by ZorkNemesis

Currently playing on Indomitable as @Zork Nemesis; was a Protector native on live.

Posted
18 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

Here's a completely crazy and selfish idea: what if we add a smidge of +Recharge to inherent Swift, say maybe +10%?

At that point you might as well just reduce the base recharge time on every power in the game ...

 

Downvoted.

  • Like 1

IifneyR.gif

Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.

Posted

I'm with Redlynne on this one.

 

That said, adding a smide of Recharge to the other powers in the Superspeed pool would be okay.

 

Like +10% recharge for 20 seconds after using Flurry. Or +15% recharge while you have Superspeed toggled on. Things like that would be nice.

 

Obviously Burnout wouldn't provide a recharge boost.

Posted

If we're going to give Flurry a little boost like that, what about Jump Kick?  I'd say "Air Superiority too," but honestly, that thing is already a bit of a beast with the -Fly, quick recharge, and decent enough punchiness.

Posted
23 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

That said, adding a smide of Recharge to the other powers in the Superspeed pool would be okay.

 

Like +10% recharge for 20 seconds after using Flurry. Or +15% recharge while you have Superspeed toggled on. Things like that would be nice.

(Temp) Buff from Flurry ... sounds good ... although I'd think a sort of "built in" Force Feedback style of effect (so you wouldn't need to slot the proc) would be more appropriate.

 

Recharge buff from Superspeed ... no ... that's going to open a whole can of worms that is best kept sealed (in concrete at the bottom of the North Sea).

 

Whirlwind though ... I can easily imagine putting in a global recharge buff into Whirlwind that affects all powers while the toggle is on ...

IifneyR.gif

Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.

Posted

For purely selfish reasons I want to say yes, but I can't actually come up with any proper arguments to support a change like this. 10% +Rech for everyone wouldn't break the game for sure, but it's still power creep and that's something we should generally be wary of.

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Torchbearer:

Sunsinger - Fire/Time Corruptor

Cursebreaker - TW/Elec Brute

Coldheart - Ill/Cold Controller

Mythoclast - Rad/SD Scrapper

 

Give a man a build export and you feed him for a day, teach him to build and he's fed for a lifetime.

Posted
8 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

If we're going to give Flurry a little boost like that, what about Jump Kick?  I'd say "Air Superiority too," but honestly, that thing is already a bit of a beast with the -Fly, quick recharge, and decent enough punchiness.

I wouldn't give them +recharge... It's gotta be something applicable to the power in question.

 

Like giving all the Jump Powers a stacking increase to the Jump Height of all the other jump powers. Or the range of Spring Attack. Just reduce Spring Attack's range by 20% and have each other power grant a 10% increase to the range of Spring Attack. That way the first two powers required to unlock it don't actually affect it's range, but the other two powers can increase it's range if you take it, kinda like the damage buffs to the Fighting Pool Attacks.

 

1 minute ago, Redlynne said:

(Temp) Buff from Flurry ... sounds good ... although I'd think a sort of "built in" Force Feedback style of effect (so you wouldn't need to slot the proc) would be more appropriate.

 

Recharge buff from Superspeed ... no ... that's going to open a whole can of worms that is best kept sealed (in concrete at the bottom of the North Sea).

 

Whirlwind though ... I can easily imagine putting in a global recharge buff into Whirlwind that affects all powers while the toggle is on ...

15% recharge tied to Superspeed means people would be foolish enough to try and justify the end cost in combat for the 15% recharge buff. Sure your attacks hit faster, but you run out of End faster!

 

Whirlwind definitely. Maybe make it give a big 'recharge hit' every time you hit someone with it for 1 second each? Like 90% Recharge boost for 1 second when you bounce someone. Since each bounce costs end... Could be interesting.

Posted
2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

At that point you might as well just reduce the base recharge time on every power in the game ...

 

Downvoted.

Yes: I figured it would be easier to tweak one power across the board, rather than touch hundreds of others.

@Rathstar

Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting

Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior

Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable

Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer

Posted
19 hours ago, MetaVileTerror said:

How about +Recharge which Scales with Level?  Starts at a mere +2.5%, but progresses up to +10% by level 50?

Yes, this is an even better idea.

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@Rathstar

Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting

Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior

Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable

Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer

Posted
14 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

..Why? I mean..I am not against exatra rech, but..is there any real reason for it? With IOs, there are a stack of +rech options, and Hasten. If the entire reason for if is to allow builds to skip hasten, well, they already CAN? If you are talking builds with IOs, they will already have some +rech, even more options for that with incarnate stuff.

I have lots of builds without Hasten. It is quite overrated, depending on the power sets involved.

I just dont see a point to this, other than 'yay lets let everyone have more rech for the hell of it.'

I also have builds without Hasten.  I also have builds with Hasten.  And I have builds with Hasten at the expense of something else, because I just need more recharge.  It's the last use case I'm trying to address.

 

And what's wrong with "'yay lets let everyone have more rech for the hell of it"?  You say that like it's a bad thing?  😏

@Rathstar

Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting

Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior

Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable

Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer

Posted
2 hours ago, DSorrow said:

For purely selfish reasons I want to say yes, but I can't actually come up with any proper arguments to support a change like this. 10% +Rech for everyone wouldn't break the game for sure, but it's still power creep and that's something we should generally be wary of.

 

Power creep?  I'd say the horse is well out of the barn, past the farm gate, and well into the fields on that, by now.

 

  • Like 1

@Rathstar

Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting

Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior

Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable

Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer

Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Megajoule said:

I already skip Hasten on pretty much all my builds, and find the general obsession with it, and/or "perma everything, zero downtime", to be ...

I have so many words I could use, but for the sake of decorum, let's go with "bothersome".

I'm not asking for "perma everything, zero downtime".  I'm just asking for a smidge more recharge, so that I can forego taking Hasten on more builds.  There are builds that don't need it, some that do, and some that shouldn't have it, but need it.  It's the third use-case I'm trying to address.

Edited by Rathulfr

@Rathstar

Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting

Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior

Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable

Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer

Posted
20 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

I'm not asking for "perma everything, zero downtime".  I'm just asking for a smidge more recharge, so that I can forego taking Hasten on more builds.  There are builds that don't need it, some that do, and some that shouldn't have it, but need it.  It's the third use-case I'm trying to address.

Having Inherent Stamina was already a "Smidge More" recovery for everyone.

 

You're just walking down the path a "Smidge Further"

 

And yeah. Power Creep exists. That's not a good reason to pile onto it.

Posted
58 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

I also have builds without Hasten.  I also have builds with Hasten.  And I have builds with Hasten at the expense of something else, because I just need more recharge.  It's the last use case I'm trying to address.

 

And what's wrong with "'yay lets let everyone have more rech for the hell of it"?  You say that like it's a bad thing?  😏

IMO:  You don't need mor recharge.  You WANT more Recharge.  There's a difference.

 

It's always "more Recharge", more damage, more Resistance, more more more.  Either because (in this specific case) people don't want to wait, for anything, ever; or (more generally) because everything must be pushed as far as it can possibly go.  Because humans aren't really wired to be satisfied with what they have.  (Good thing from a survival and evolution perspective, bad thing for personal happiness and such.)

Posted
3 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

Or +15% recharge while you have Superspeed toggled on. Things like that would be nice.

I already play with Super Speed during combat on multiple characters, so I love this idea. I would absolutely abuse it.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

IMO:  You don't need mor recharge.  You WANT more Recharge.  There's a difference.

 

It's always "more Recharge", more damage, more Resistance, more more more.  Either because (in this specific case) people don't want to wait, for anything, ever; or (more generally) because everything must be pushed as far as it can possibly go.  Because humans aren't really wired to be satisfied with what they have.  (Good thing from a survival and evolution perspective, bad thing for personal happiness and such.)

"You kids get off my lawn!" *shakes fist* 😆

@Rathstar

Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting

Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior

Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable

Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer

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