Add a smidge of +Recharge to inherent Swift?

[Rathulfr]

Here's a completely crazy and selfish idea: what if we add a smidge of +Recharge to inherent Swift, say maybe +10 to 20%?  Nothing that would compete with Hasten or other powers that grant +Recharge, but enough that might allow for some builds to skip Hasten?  The goal is to have no net effect change to Hasten or any builds that depend on Hasten, but simply to grant more freedom to folks who currently feel compelled to take Hasten to optimize their builds, so they can drop it and pick something else.

 

(edit 1) @MetaVileTerror made a good suggestion that this could scale with level, starting at 2.5% for at 1, and capping out at +10 to 20% at level 50.

 

(edit 2)  An alternative suggestion, based on the discussions in @Steampunkette's "Delete Hasten" post:

 

1. Add 20% +Recharge global to Swift in the Fitness inherent pool.
2. Nerf Hasten by 20%, for a base recharge rate of 50% +Recharge.

 

(edit 3)  Another alternative suggestion, that isn't as "free" as the first one: why not just add +2.5 to 5% recharge to Combat Jumping, Hover, Maneuvers, Stealth, or Weave?  That way, it isn't a straight up super-buff to everyone for nothing, but part and parcel of the trade-off decisions associated with choosing one or more of those powers?

 

[NOTE: I should point out that none of these ideas should be allowed to slot recharge enhancements: they're just flat percentage buffs without changing any slotting.]

 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Rathulfr

[MunkiLord]

This would push a couple of my characters to perma hasten. /signed

[MetaVileTerror]

How about +Recharge which Scales with Level?  Starts at a mere +2.5%, but progresses up to +10% by level 50?

[Razor Cure]

..Why? I mean..I am not against exatra rech, but..is there any real reason for it? With IOs, there are a stack of +rech options, and Hasten. If the entire reason for if is to allow builds to skip hasten, well, they already CAN? If you are talking builds with IOs, they will already have some +rech, even more options for that with incarnate stuff.

I have lots of builds without Hasten. It is quite overrated, depending on the power sets involved.

I just dont see a point to this, other than 'yay lets let everyone have more rech for the hell of it.'

[TheAdjustor]

I don't think it should be a free pick. But I would like to see a power in the speed pool that would be a 10% to 20% +recharge power.  It would make a nice swapout for whirlwind (has anyone actually taken that ?)

 

If the devs weren't committed to no more mutually exclusive power pics, having a 35% passive recharge boost that you could take instead of hasten would be great as well.

Edited September 25, 2019 by TheAdjustor

[Megajoule]

I already skip Hasten on pretty much all my builds, and find the general obsession with it, and/or "perma everything, zero downtime", to be ...

I have so many words I could use, but for the sake of decorum, let's go with "bothersome".

[Lost Ninja]

Shouldn't be free, should be something you have to consciously take. If Fitness were still a pool and not automatic I'd agree, especially if some +something else was added to hurdle so you had a choice as opposed to needing Swift on all builds (with the normal caveat that not all builds would need it).

 

An Universal Travel IO with a scaling (to level, 10% @ 50) +recharge unique, would IMO be a better option.

[Zepp]

  On 9/25/2019 at 1:40 AM, TheAdjustor said:

I don't think it should be a free pick. But I would like to see a power in the speed pool that would be a 10% to 20% +recharge power.  It would make a nice swapout for whirlwind (has anyone actually taken that ?)

 

If the devs weren't committed to no more mutually exclusive power pics, having a 35% passive recharge boost that you could take instead of hasten would be great as well.

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  On 9/1/2019 at 11:38 PM, Cipher said:

Some Pool Power statistics:

 

Pool Powers (All Levels):

  Reveal hidden contents

Pool	Power	Count
Fighting	Tough	64,450
Fighting	Weave	52,046
Fighting	Boxing	50,057
Fighting	Kick	36,141
Fighting	Cross Punch	4,183
Flight	Fly	182,678
Flight	Combat Flight	63,981
Flight	Afterburner	18,983
Flight	Air Superiority	7,852
Flight	Group Fly	1,352
Invisibility	Stealth	34,672
Invisibility	Invisibility	14,884
Invisibility	Grant Invisibility	9,555
Invisibility	Phase Shift	4,161
Invisibility	Misdirection	1,475
Leadership	Maneuvers	81,608
Leadership	Assault	67,619
Leadership	Tactics	58,053
Leadership	Vengeance	15,009
Leadership	Victory Rush	9,407
Leaping	Super Jump	129,071
Leaping	Combat Jumping	93,131
Leaping	Acrobatics	16,629
Leaping	Spring Attack	6,682
Leaping	Jump Kick	4,393
Manipulation	Provoke	4,462
Manipulation	Intimidate	2,757
Manipulation	Challenge	2,723
Manipulation	Unrelenting	2,036
Manipulation	Invoke Panic	694
Medicine	Aid Other	14,000
Medicine	Aid Self	10,642
Medicine	Stimulant	5,819
Medicine	Field Medic	5,232
Medicine	Resuscitate	3,183
Sorcery	Mystic Flight	64,107
Sorcery	Translocation	64,107
Sorcery	Arcane Bolt	17,315
Sorcery	Spirit Ward	10,231
Sorcery	Rune of Protection	7,168
Sorcery	Enflame	3,735
Speed	Hasten	155,593
Speed	Super Speed	84,821
Speed	Flurry	4,183
Speed	Burnout	4,094
Speed	Whirlwind	1,211
Teleportation	Recall Friend	34,265
Teleportation	Teleport	25,523
Teleportation	Teleport Foe	5,735
Teleportation	Long Range Teleport	5,586

 

Pool Powers (Level 50):

  Reveal hidden contents

Set	Power	Count
Fighting	Tough	35,901
Fighting	Weave	33,975
Fighting	Boxing	23,253
Fighting	Kick	14,416
Fighting	Cross Punch	1,797
Flight	Fly	17,435
Flight	Combat Flight	12,318
Flight	Afterburner	6,140
Flight	Air Superiority	1,314
Flight	Group Fly	521
Invisibility	Stealth	14,078
Invisibility	Invisibility	8,231
Invisibility	Grant Invisibility	5,206
Invisibility	Phase Shift	3,359
Invisibility	Misdirection	910
Leadership	Maneuvers	34,222
Leadership	Tactics	24,088
Leadership	Assault	21,135
Leadership	Vengeance	10,765
Leadership	Victory Rush	3,790
Leaping	Combat Jumping	37,287
Leaping	Super Jump	25,729
Leaping	Acrobatics	7,979
Leaping	Spring Attack	2,532
Leaping	Jump Kick	604
Manipulation	Provoke	1,143
Manipulation	Unrelenting	949
Manipulation	Intimidate	936
Manipulation	Challenge	605
Manipulation	Invoke Panic	261
Medicine	Aid Self	3,250
Medicine	Aid Other	2,703
Medicine	Field Medic	1,730
Medicine	Stimulant	1,407
Medicine	Resuscitate	1,128
Sorcery	Mystic Flight	6,064
Sorcery	Translocation	6,064
Sorcery	Rune of Protection	2,872
Sorcery	Spirit Ward	2,687
Sorcery	Arcane Bolt	1,860
Sorcery	Enflame	728
Speed	Hasten	53,580
Speed	Super Speed	23,968
Speed	Burnout	2,331
Speed	Flurry	387
Speed	Whirlwind	363
Teleportation	Recall Friend	9,199
Teleportation	Teleport	2,761
Teleportation	Long Range Teleport	1,703
Teleportation	Teleport Foe	1,393
Teleportation	Team Teleport	673

 

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Whirlwind is second to last, behind Invoke Panic and just ahead of Flurry.

 

[ZorkNemesis]

  On 9/25/2019 at 1:40 AM, TheAdjustor said:

It would make a nice swapout for whirlwind (has anyone actually taken that ?)

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I took it once, on a Stalker.  With a KB>KD IO it makes for a decent defensive option as melee range enemies are somewhat frequently being juggled.  Repsec'd out of it in the end since it messed up Hide, but I should've known better.  I could see it being a decent option for Brutes or Tankers.  Though it would be garbage in bigger fights where mobs generally resist KD and such.  

Edited September 25, 2019 by ZorkNemesis

[Redlynne]

  On 9/24/2019 at 6:49 PM, Rathulfr said:

Here's a completely crazy and selfish idea: what if we add a smidge of +Recharge to inherent Swift, say maybe +10%?

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At that point you might as well just reduce the base recharge time on every power in the game ...

 

Downvoted.

[Steampunkette]

I'm with Redlynne on this one.

 

That said, adding a smide of Recharge to the other powers in the Superspeed pool would be okay.

 

Like +10% recharge for 20 seconds after using Flurry. Or +15% recharge while you have Superspeed toggled on. Things like that would be nice.

 

Obviously Burnout wouldn't provide a recharge boost.

[MetaVileTerror]

If we're going to give Flurry a little boost like that, what about Jump Kick?  I'd say "Air Superiority too," but honestly, that thing is already a bit of a beast with the -Fly, quick recharge, and decent enough punchiness.

[Redlynne]

  On 9/25/2019 at 1:07 PM, Steampunkette said:

That said, adding a smide of Recharge to the other powers in the Superspeed pool would be okay.

 

Like +10% recharge for 20 seconds after using Flurry. Or +15% recharge while you have Superspeed toggled on. Things like that would be nice.

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(Temp) Buff from Flurry ... sounds good ... although I'd think a sort of "built in" Force Feedback style of effect (so you wouldn't need to slot the proc) would be more appropriate.

 

Recharge buff from Superspeed ... no ... that's going to open a whole can of worms that is best kept sealed (in concrete at the bottom of the North Sea).

 

Whirlwind though ... I can easily imagine putting in a global recharge buff into Whirlwind that affects all powers while the toggle is on ...

[DSorrow]

For purely selfish reasons I want to say yes, but I can't actually come up with any proper arguments to support a change like this. 10% +Rech for everyone wouldn't break the game for sure, but it's still power creep and that's something we should generally be wary of.

[Steampunkette]

  On 9/25/2019 at 1:26 PM, MetaVileTerror said:

If we're going to give Flurry a little boost like that, what about Jump Kick?  I'd say "Air Superiority too," but honestly, that thing is already a bit of a beast with the -Fly, quick recharge, and decent enough punchiness.

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I wouldn't give them +recharge... It's gotta be something applicable to the power in question.

 

Like giving all the Jump Powers a stacking increase to the Jump Height of all the other jump powers. Or the range of Spring Attack. Just reduce Spring Attack's range by 20% and have each other power grant a 10% increase to the range of Spring Attack. That way the first two powers required to unlock it don't actually affect it's range, but the other two powers can increase it's range if you take it, kinda like the damage buffs to the Fighting Pool Attacks.

 

  On 9/25/2019 at 1:34 PM, Redlynne said:

(Temp) Buff from Flurry ... sounds good ... although I'd think a sort of "built in" Force Feedback style of effect (so you wouldn't need to slot the proc) would be more appropriate.

 

Recharge buff from Superspeed ... no ... that's going to open a whole can of worms that is best kept sealed (in concrete at the bottom of the North Sea).

 

Whirlwind though ... I can easily imagine putting in a global recharge buff into Whirlwind that affects all powers while the toggle is on ...

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15% recharge tied to Superspeed means people would be foolish enough to try and justify the end cost in combat for the 15% recharge buff. Sure your attacks hit faster, but you run out of End faster!

 

Whirlwind definitely. Maybe make it give a big 'recharge hit' every time you hit someone with it for 1 second each? Like 90% Recharge boost for 1 second when you bounce someone. Since each bounce costs end... Could be interesting.

[Rathulfr]

  On 9/25/2019 at 12:56 PM, Redlynne said:

At that point you might as well just reduce the base recharge time on every power in the game ...

 

Downvoted.

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Yes: I figured it would be easier to tweak one power across the board, rather than touch hundreds of others.

[Rathulfr]

  On 9/24/2019 at 7:08 PM, MetaVileTerror said:

How about +Recharge which Scales with Level?  Starts at a mere +2.5%, but progresses up to +10% by level 50?

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Yes, this is an even better idea.

[SmalltalkJava]

I would love it if they put ina force feedback type of effect in whirlwind.  It is such a cool looking ability 

[Rathulfr]

  On 9/25/2019 at 12:54 AM, Razor Cure said:

..Why? I mean..I am not against exatra rech, but..is there any real reason for it? With IOs, there are a stack of +rech options, and Hasten. If the entire reason for if is to allow builds to skip hasten, well, they already CAN? If you are talking builds with IOs, they will already have some +rech, even more options for that with incarnate stuff.

I have lots of builds without Hasten. It is quite overrated, depending on the power sets involved.

I just dont see a point to this, other than 'yay lets let everyone have more rech for the hell of it.'

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I also have builds without Hasten.  I also have builds with Hasten.  And I have builds with Hasten at the expense of something else, because I just need more recharge.  It's the last use case I'm trying to address.

 

And what's wrong with "'yay lets let everyone have more rech for the hell of it"?  You say that like it's a bad thing?  😏

[Rathulfr]

  On 9/25/2019 at 1:37 PM, DSorrow said:

For purely selfish reasons I want to say yes, but I can't actually come up with any proper arguments to support a change like this. 10% +Rech for everyone wouldn't break the game for sure, but it's still power creep and that's something we should generally be wary of.

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Power creep?  I'd say the horse is well out of the barn, past the farm gate, and well into the fields on that, by now.

 

[Rathulfr]

  On 9/25/2019 at 5:30 AM, Megajoule said:

I already skip Hasten on pretty much all my builds, and find the general obsession with it, and/or "perma everything, zero downtime", to be ...

I have so many words I could use, but for the sake of decorum, let's go with "bothersome".

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I'm not asking for "perma everything, zero downtime".  I'm just asking for a smidge more recharge, so that I can forego taking Hasten on more builds.  There are builds that don't need it, some that do, and some that shouldn't have it, but need it.  It's the third use-case I'm trying to address.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Rathulfr

[Steampunkette]

  On 9/25/2019 at 3:48 PM, Rathulfr said:

I'm not asking for "perma everything, zero downtime".  I'm just asking for a smidge more recharge, so that I can forego taking Hasten on more builds.  There are builds that don't need it, some that do, and some that shouldn't have it, but need it.  It's the third use-case I'm trying to address.

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Having Inherent Stamina was already a "Smidge More" recovery for everyone.

 

You're just walking down the path a "Smidge Further"

 

And yeah. Power Creep exists. That's not a good reason to pile onto it.

[Megajoule]

  On 9/25/2019 at 3:40 PM, Rathulfr said:

I also have builds without Hasten.  I also have builds with Hasten.  And I have builds with Hasten at the expense of something else, because I just need more recharge.  It's the last use case I'm trying to address.

 

And what's wrong with "'yay lets let everyone have more rech for the hell of it"?  You say that like it's a bad thing?  😏

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IMO:  You don't need mor recharge.  You WANT more Recharge.  There's a difference.

 

It's always "more Recharge", more damage, more Resistance, more more more.  Either because (in this specific case) people don't want to wait, for anything, ever; or (more generally) because everything must be pushed as far as it can possibly go.  Because humans aren't really wired to be satisfied with what they have.  (Good thing from a survival and evolution perspective, bad thing for personal happiness and such.)

[MunkiLord]

  On 9/25/2019 at 1:07 PM, Steampunkette said:

Or +15% recharge while you have Superspeed toggled on. Things like that would be nice.

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I already play with Super Speed during combat on multiple characters, so I love this idea. I would absolutely abuse it.

[Rathulfr]

  On 9/25/2019 at 4:44 PM, Megajoule said:

IMO:  You don't need mor recharge.  You WANT more Recharge.  There's a difference.

 

It's always "more Recharge", more damage, more Resistance, more more more.  Either because (in this specific case) people don't want to wait, for anything, ever; or (more generally) because everything must be pushed as far as it can possibly go.  Because humans aren't really wired to be satisfied with what they have.  (Good thing from a survival and evolution perspective, bad thing for personal happiness and such.)

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"You kids get off my lawn!" *shakes fist* 😆