Code of Conduct Update - September 25th 2019

[PaxArcana]

  On 9/25/2019 at 2:08 PM, Arawanach said:

I made a character in DCUO and played trough the entire storyline with Batman as mentor. Since it was my main character and I liked the powerset I remade my character in City of Heroes. Note that this character is from Gotham and was mentored by Batman, and is an offical member of the Justice League. That is trough me playing trough the game with that character. Story is then that she was transfered from Gotham City to Paragon City to help out there. However my character is not based on an existing DC character, but is my own DC character from the online game DC made. It would be like if you remake and everquest character here. That is allowed, so remaking your own character and using IG storyline you played trough from a different game should be allowed.

 

Nothing preventing you from remaking your own characters, right?

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DCUO allows such things, because you're on their game - essentially, you have a license to do such things while on their servers.  HC is not there.  Your license does not extend to HC.  I expect that character would be found in violation of the new policy.

Your best bet is to "file off the serial numbers" - remove references to Batman (just say "a certain famous vigilante" and such), remove references to Gotham ("a city in the U.S. northeast, rife with super-villains").  Rename Joker to "the Punster", that sort of thing.  Then change your costume, to be different.  Not completely, just maybe change up the colors.  Dark green and grey, instead of blue-and-grey or black-and-grey.  And finally, change the name to not reference bats (if it still does).

 

The result will be a Batman homage.  Anyone who knows Batman mythology, will recognise it for what it is.  BUT ... the differences will make it legally a transformative work, which shelters and shields it from copyright law .... and int eh process, shelters and shields the HC devs.

[PaxArcana]

  On 9/25/2019 at 2:12 PM, Bardweiser said:

The suit was dropped

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No, it was not.  It was settled out of court.  That is not the same as being dropped.

[alasminor]

  On 9/25/2019 at 2:15 PM, PaxArcana said:

You have misunderstood two important facets of Coopyright (and Trademark) Law.

 

Just being fast and wearing red isn't enough.  Being fast, wearing red-and-yellow, with a lightning-bolt motif could.  Especially if your name is some variation on the Flash, or if you use any of the secret identities of the various Flash characters (e.g. Wally West, Barry Allen, etc) in your bio.

 

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You'll be right, I don't know much, I don't even live in the US & I never played this game back when it was live. My characters don't look like the Flash, their names & their bio are all made by me. But as I said, I can't helped being inspired. I just want to know the clear line where I am too inspired. I would have to stress that I'm not a superhero fan, I don't want to accidentally crossing that line all because I don't know what I'm doing. They wear red & they have yellow trails because that comes with the superspeed by default. I like it well enough & I don't want to change it which is why I asked.

[ZacKing]

  On 9/25/2019 at 2:12 PM, Bardweiser said:

Marvel was concerned at first, they even brought a lawsuit against NCSoft.  The suit was dropped once it was revealed that the Marvel-looking and Marvel-named characters in CoH they were using as examples were created by Marvel staff.  So if they dropped it then and it's going on strong and heavy in a game like DCUO then why is Homecoming "skeered"?

 

In all likelihood such a case against Homecoming (or even DCUO/Daybreak/Warner Bros for that matter) would probably end up with a ruling that the company has no responsibility for policing IP issues since they are not making money specifically off of the ability to create/name a Marvel-like character.  Ruling otherwise opens the door to a complete clampdown on things from video clips to just having your own drawing of Deadpool as your forum avatar. 

 

But wait... that only reinforces the "why are they scared" question, right?  Nope.  Because all of that is done against the backdrop that such a lawsuit costs a lot of money just to defend against.  Disney/Marvel could easily bring the lawsuit and quickly leave a small group like the Homecoming crew drowning in legal fees before even going before a judge whereas a Daybreak (and their parent company) has their own legal team and would probably have access to that of Warner Bros as well so they could afford to play that game until an actual ruling came out.

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That Marvel lawsuit was settled because Marvel had no case and didn't have the money to lose on it.  Quite clear they were IP mining to try and make some money any way they could. 

[PaxArcana]

  On 9/25/2019 at 2:30 PM, alasminor said:

My characters don't look like the Flash, their names & their bio are all made by me. But as I said, I can't helped being inspired.

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Inspiration is fine.  If their named differently, and the only common point in their looks is "red", you should be 100% fine.

 

  Quote

I just want to know the clear line where I am too inspired.

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That's not possible, unfortunately.  Like Icarus and the sun: the closer you try to get, the more the risk that you got TOO close.

 

 

[ShardWarrior]

  On 9/25/2019 at 2:30 PM, alasminor said:

 

You'll be right, I don't know much, I don't even live in the US & I never played this game back when it was live. My characters don't look like the Flash, their names & their bio are all made by me. But as I said, I can't helped being inspired. I just want to know the clear line where I am too inspired. I would have to stress that I'm not a superhero fan, I don't want to accidentally crossing that line all because I don't know what I'm doing. They wear red & they have yellow trails because that comes with the superspeed by default. I like it well enough & I don't want to change it which is why I asked.

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To be honest, I wouldn't worry about it too much.  Just about every comic publisher has speedsters of some kind, so powerset selections alone really can't be much of a criteria, if at all.  Direct name copies and costumes are going to be the sticklers from the sound of it.

[johnnysc]

  On 9/25/2019 at 2:51 PM, ShardWarrior said:

To be honest, I wouldn't worry about it too much.  Just about every comic publisher has speedsters of some kind, so powerset selections alone really can't be much of a criteria, if at all.  Direct name copies and costumes are going to be the sticklers from the sound of it.

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Which reminds me of a relevant classic Fred Hembeck cartoon:  quicksilvers-lament

[AboveTheChemist]

So if I have an homage character that might fall under the new code, what is my best course of action? Self-report? Wait until someone reports me? I don't want to run foul of the law but I also don't want to change him if in fact he's different enough that the new code doesn't apply.

[Matt_Miracle]

  On 9/25/2019 at 3:12 PM, AboveTheChemist said:

So if I have an homage character that might fall under the new code, what is my best course of action? Self-report? Wait until someone reports me? I don't want to run foul of the law but I also don't want to change him if in fact he's different enough that the new code doesn't apply.

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I said this earlier but these are the rules I followed on Live and it worked well for me.  I would hope others who report (or self report) would have similar "litmus tests" before reporting.

• Does said character have the same Name as licensed work?
• Does said character have the same Powers as licensed work?
• Does said character have the same Costume as licensed work?
• Does said character have the same Bio as licensed work?

Any 2 or less, I don't report.

Any 3 or more, I DO report.

 

[ShardWarrior]

  On 9/25/2019 at 3:12 PM, AboveTheChemist said:

So if I have an homage character that might fall under the new code, what is my best course of action? Self-report? Wait until someone reports me? I don't want to run foul of the law but I also don't want to change him if in fact he's different enough that the new code doesn't apply.

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I had asked about this earlier if there were a way we could submit our own accounts for review somehow.  Personally, I'd rather not clog up the ticket system with un-necessary reports.

[Rodumas]

Word on these Paragon streets is that genderswapping is also a thing.

[ShardWarrior]

  On 9/25/2019 at 3:17 PM, Matt_Miracle said:

• Does said character have the same Name as licensed work?
• Does said character have the same Powers as licensed work?
• Does said character have the same Costume as licensed work?
• Does said character have the same Bio as licensed work?

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Some of these carry much more weight than others though.  Quite clear direct names and likeness copies are out.

 

 

[Matt_Miracle]

  On 9/25/2019 at 3:22 PM, ShardWarrior said:

Some of these carry much more weight than others though.  Quite clear direct names and likeness copies are out.

 

 

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Weight is subjective.  Just because someone has the name "Thor" should not mean an automatic strike if said persons uses a costume that is NO WAY close to Marverl's Thor and if the Bio is more mythology than "Marvel Story," then I wouldn't report it.  Likewise, I can see a character that is not based on mythology having the name of "Spider-Male" with the costume and bio a direct rip from Marvel stories, then I would report because they "intended to skirt the rules with a slight name change".

Again, weights are subjective...at least to me.

[MunkiLord]

  On 9/25/2019 at 3:12 PM, AboveTheChemist said:

So if I have an homage character that might fall under the new code, what is my best course of action? Self-report? Wait until someone reports me? I don't want to run foul of the law but I also don't want to change him if in fact he's different enough that the new code doesn't apply.

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I wouldn't worry about it. If somebody reports you and it gets hit with a generic change, then adjust. Some one off generic isn't going to put your account in jeopardy, it's repeat offenders that might have a concern.

[Sidious]

I feel it important to remind people to save their costumes so that you wont be starting from scratch again.

If you get Generic'd loading the saved costume and making some changes is easier than spending 2 hours in the CC again.

[ShardWarrior]

  On 9/25/2019 at 3:34 PM, Matt_Miracle said:

Weight is subjective.  Just because someone has the name "Thor" should not mean an automatic strike if said persons uses a costume that is NO WAY close to Marverl's Thor and if the Bio is more mythology than "Marvel Story," then I wouldn't report it.  Likewise, I can see a character that is not based on mythology having the name of "Spider-Male" with the costume and bio a direct rip from Marvel stories, then I would report because they "intended to skirt the rules with a slight name change".

Again, weights are subjective...at least to me.

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Thor isn't a very good example because he is more an exception than the general rule in that his name cannot be copyrighted.  More often than not though, character names are copyrighted material. 

 

For certain a character named Captain America, regardless of costume, bio and power selections is going to get renamed.

[Budo]

  On 9/25/2019 at 2:01 AM, MunkiLord said:

Lime is great on everything.

 

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Cuts.

Not great on cuts. 

 

Also, as to how to define what is okay or not okay, I assume the powers that be will know it when they see it. 

If it's good enough for porn, it's good enough for superheroes and villains.

[Matt_Miracle]

  On 9/25/2019 at 4:00 PM, ShardWarrior said:

Thor isn't a very good example because he is more an exception than the general rule in that his name cannot be copyrighted.  More often than not though, character names are copyrighted material. 

 

For certain a character named Captain America, regardless of costume, bio and power selections is going to get renamed.

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Agreed on the obvious names (which should be locked out anyway).

[calash]

I understand, but it is a shame, there are some great recreations out there.

[ShardWarrior]

  On 9/25/2019 at 4:01 PM, calash said:

I understand, but it is a shame, there are some great recreations out there.

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Indeed!

 

@GM Capocollo or @GM Widower - might we please ask if/how are parodies covered in this policy?  Thank you.

Edited September 25, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[MunkiLord]

  On 9/25/2019 at 4:01 PM, Budo said:

Cuts.

Not great on cuts. 

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Embrace the pain. 

[PaxArcana]

  On 9/25/2019 at 4:01 PM, calash said:

I understand, but it is a shame, there are some great recreations out there.

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Some advice for people with top-tier recreations:

Make sure your name isn't 1:1 copied.  Then, edit your base, default, #1-slot costume to be different enough to pass muster as "homage, not copy".  This can be fairly subtle differences - as I mentioned upthread, a Batman-copy could change out the Blue or Black for a dark Green.  Maybe swap the Yellow (utility belt) for the same green, or for a brown (leather).

If your Bio is a direct 1:1 copy, you'll have to do some serious work there.  Change the names of things, mostly.  Better if you can wax creative enough to spin a tale that clearly hits all the same high points, but is also as originally yours as possible.

 

Then, your ALTERNATE costume slot(s) will preserve the work you put into making it work within the CoX creator.  You can trot it out for CCs and the like, and still enjoy the fruit of your labor ...

 

... but, along with the name/bio tweaks ...?  Spending much of your time in the now-changed base costume should shield you from being Generic'd, having moved yourself into compliance with both the letter and spirit of the new policy.

IMO, anyway.  I'm not a GM or a Dev.

[Craigrx]

I am ambivalent about this, on one hand I totally understand, but on the other I know people love to make there own versions of Marvel, DC etc heroes. BUT and it is a big but , in order for HC to remain viable ie legal I TOTALLY will go along. There is no counter argument that can prevail against keeping HC legal and up and running

[ZacKing]

  On 9/25/2019 at 4:37 PM, Craigrx said:

in order for HC to remain viable ie legal

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Running an unauthorized server using code that was stolen from the owner is legal?  News to me.

[MunkiLord]

  On 9/25/2019 at 4:37 PM, Craigrx said:

I am ambivalent about this, on one hand I totally understand, but on the other I know people love to make there own versions of Marvel, DC etc heroes. BUT and it is a big but , in order for HC to remain viable ie legal I TOTALLY will go along. There is no counter argument that can prevail against keeping HC legal and up and running

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I mean it's currently not legal(assuming there isn't some sort of temp agreement already). But this change could very well help HC become legal.