Might be time for a new tank

[Caulderone]

Hover gets you to 56.2 Ranged.

 

UGG.  Just realized the planner isn't adding the passive HP regen bonus from Melee Core unless it is turned on.  Your above numbers should be a bit higher from the extra 2.34 hp/s regen.

I didn't realize how much the base regen from Melee Core is when cycled on.

 

Instead of trying to type out all those variations, I'm just going to attach 3 files, modified original from above with hp regen bonus added, that + melee core, that + melee core + owts.

 

 

Edit:  Updated prior post with fixed shield.ods file and corrected shield numbers.

Edit2:   Numbers still include the 4.9% resist from Scaling IO (30%HP) for consistency.

 

Last Edit?:  Shield and SR both take great advantage of the +Absorb tank IO and Prev.Medicine.  This isn't calculated in either.

I'm taking Assault Core for daily use after the tank update comes through.  I also need to build a Melee Core for extreme tanking, as that regen bonus is insane and the resist bonus will let SR hit resist cap with more HP left.  I hadn't even thought of it, as I was hunting damage for solo.

 

shield plus melee core plus owts.ods shield plus melee core.ods shield.ods

Edited November 9, 2019 by Caulderone

[Infinitum]

34 minutes ago, Caulderone said:

Hover gets you to 56.2 Ranged.

 

UGG.  Just realized the planner isn't adding the passive HP regen bonus from Melee Core unless it is turned on.  Your above numbers should be a bit higher from the extra 2.34 hp/s regen.

I didn't realize how much the base regen from Melee Core is when cycled on.

 

Instead of trying to type out all those variations, I'm just going to attach 3 files, modified original from above with hp regen bonus added, that + melee core, that + melee core + owts.

 

 

Edit:  Updated prior post with fixed shield.ods file and corrected shield numbers.

Edit2:   Numbers still include the 4.9% resist from Scaling IO (30%HP) for consistency.

 

Last Edit?:  Shield and SR both take great advantage of the +Absorb tank IO and Prev.Medicine.  This isn't calculated in either.

I'm taking Assault Core for daily use after the tank update comes through.  I also need to build a Melee Core for extreme tanking, as that regen bonus is insane and the resist bonus will let SR hit resist cap with more HP left.  I hadn't even thought of it, as I was hunting damage for solo.

 

shield plus melee core plus owts.ods 29.76 kB · 1 download shield plus melee core.ods 29.8 kB · 1 download shield.ods 29.86 kB · 1 download

If you are calculating your SR numbers statically like when you enter battle what does that put SR at?

 

I have SR scrappers and stalkers but I'm seriously thinking about a tank now.

 

In your experience is there anything that gives it grief?

[Caulderone]

The same thing that gives everyone grief, energy drain.  SR has no resistance to it if hit, and some are auto-hit.  Hence, Ageless radial.  Though, Rebirth Radial does add ludicrous survival due to the +regen, too.  Here are the numbers at full HP, which aren't too hot, but you don't care about getting low on HP, mostly.  This assumes SMotT procs, slightly worse without.

 

S/L  61.28

F/C  58.30

E/N  57.44

T/P  65.13

 

The jump in survival rating as your HP decrease below 60% is pretty ludicrous.  Those numbers fairly well suck.

 

Edit:  I planned for damage boost in Musculature alpha, as neither Agility (already capped defense) nor Resilient helps much (Resilient doesn't boost set bonus resists, so only effects Tough, as rest of resists are set bonus).  SR doesn't get much from the defensive Alphas, in other words.

 

Edit2:  Oh yeah, the other problem child.   When low on hp (30% in my prior examples), single massive hits (5K+) do get reduced by up to 90%, but can leave you vulnerable to another one.  But, how many things hit that hard back to back?  I dunno that answer, but they still have to make the 10.5% tohit roll twice in a row.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Caulderone

[mcdoogss]

No offense guys, I think the dick measuring context of which unkillable endgame tanker build/set is less killable is fairly silly 😇.  I personally chose invulnerability over  shield for 3 reasons: 

 

1) I dont like click mez protection on a tanker, hell I dont really like click defensive powers in general

2) Dull pain is great, i feel more comfortable with a self heal even if i never have to use it (i generally use it practively if at all)

3) Shield is incompatible with, in my opinion, the best tanker secondary in the game titan weapons (don't @ me).

 

With Melee and Invincibility set to 1 enemy which seems like a good baseline (Also tough is toggled off, since it only nets an effective .3% S/L resistance).  My favorite part of this character isn't the fact that it's basically unkillable unless I go afk while fighting battle maiden or something.  It's that if a second tanker joins a TF/Trial, say a granite tanker who by definition will hit like a wet noodle, I can let them take point and still contribute because Titan Weapons is just that good.  Sure I can't dps like a stalker/scrapper, but I'm better than a brute without fury 😛

mcdoogss.mxd

Edited November 9, 2019 by mcdoogss

[Caulderone]

Very nice looking build.  Your ToHit versus +4s isn't very good until you turn on FA, which you do have so that isn't a problem.

 

How is your End usage when running FA against +4s?  That's what always worries me about TW.  Then again, Ageless may be enough.

 

Edit:  PS, I struggle with coming up with reliable attack chain on TW.  Do you have a consistent chain, or does it just vary too much?

Edited November 9, 2019 by Caulderone

[Xandyr]

Did a 4 man ITF last night on my Rad/spines tank. The only issue I had was the Cimoreans in large groups. I would get a large group and just stand there and let my quills whittle them down. Over time, their attacks lowered my defenses and I started taking more hits. I'd have to start using all the powers at my disposal to stay alive and "arrest" them. Course, I guess any tanker that stands in a mob while only using a damage aura would have that issue.

 At one point while taking on Romy in the end, I had an emergency and had to go AFK(wife needed help with my 2 nieces). I came back about 5 mi utes later, and I was still standing toe to toe with Romy (and was actually still holding his aggro while the blaster,corr, and scrapper were attacking him).

 All in all, I'm pretty satisfied with this tank and set up.

[Infinitum]

34 minutes ago, mcdoogss said:

No offense guys, I think the dick measuring context of which unkillable endgame tanker build/set is less killable is fairly silly 😇.  I personally chose invulnerability over  shield for 3 reasons: 

yeah mine isn't worth measuring anyway so that's not what this is.  lol.  At least I have a chance to win a tank measuring contest.  LOL. Flame away on that if you wish.

 

I find all the different ways people come to an endgame result fascinating.

 

I like taking information I didnt previously have an adapt it to be a better tank.

 

For instance before shield you couldn't have convinced me anything was more durable than Rad or Elec.  In fact I built brute versions of them and still was stronger than what I perceived my invul tank to perform at.

 

Next I started running SR Scrappers and stalkers for a month or so.

 

Fast forward to the tank changes that are coming, I start reading more, and build crafting on tanks - 3 of them I already have invul, fire, and Rad and the shield I built.

 

Shield still feels the best but I didn't know about the scaling resist on SR - so I learned something that's useful that I'm definately going to check out.

 

This is all a collaboration of knowledge and yeah I want to be the best, but isn't that the goal for everyone?

[Infinitum]

59 minutes ago, Caulderone said:

The same thing that gives everyone grief, energy drain.  SR has no resistance to it if hit, and some are auto-hit.  Hence, Ageless radial.  Though, Rebirth Radial does add ludicrous survival due to the +regen, too.  Here are the numbers at full HP, which aren't too hot, but you don't care about getting low on HP, mostly.  This assumes SMotT procs, slightly worse without.

 

S/L  61.28

F/C  58.30

E/N  57.44

T/P  65.13

 

The jump in survival rating as your HP decrease below 60% is pretty ludicrous.  Those numbers fairly well suck.

 

Edit:  I planned for damage boost in Musculature alpha, as neither Agility (already capped defense) nor Resilient helps much (Resilient doesn't boost set bonus resists, so only effects Tough, as rest of resists are set bonus).  SR doesn't get much from the defensive Alphas, in other words.

 

Edit2:  Oh yeah, the other problem child.   When low on hp (30% in my prior examples), single massive hits (5K+) do get reduced by up to 90%, but can leave you vulnerable to another one.  But, how many things hit that hard back to back?  I dunno that answer, but they still have to make the 10.5% tohit roll twice in a row.

Bobcat and Lord recluse are the only ones I know about that can do that.

[mcdoogss]

1 hour ago, Caulderone said:

Very nice looking build.  Your ToHit versus +4s isn't very good until you turn on FA, which you do have so that isn't a problem.

 

How is your End usage when running FA against +4s?  That's what always worries me about TW.  Then again, Ageless may be enough.

 

Edit:  PS, I struggle with coming up with reliable attack chain on TW.  Do you have a consistent chain, or does it just vary too much?

I think I only have ~12-13 seconds hasten downtime if the FF proc never hits (i whirling smash whenever its up though since I had to sacrifice crushing blow and titan sweep for defensive powers).  I find there are few chain gaps just obviously I end up using WS and AoC against single targets a lot.  Momentum kinda forces gaps and the 'slow' rend armors/AoCs to gain momentum give everything else plenty of time to recharge.  Also throw in a second or so for taunt when momentum expires.  

 

My end bar doesnt move now but was a concern well in the 40s before all the accolades, physical perfection, etc.  Plus in 8+ man  TF/Trial content, ageless is being cast so regularly that I dont even feel the need to slot it and am currently running barrier as an 'oh shit' button.  I was pretty close to rolling this guy as a Dark/TW tank, but the end issue definitely dissuaded me lol

Edited November 9, 2019 by mcdoogss

[Xandyr]

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

yeah mine isn't worth measuring anyway so that's not what this is.  lol.  At least I have a chance to win a tank measuring contest.  LOL. Flame away on that if you wish.

 

I find all the different ways people come to an endgame result fascinating.

 

I like taking information I didnt previously have an adapt it to be a better tank.

 

For instance before shield you couldn't have convinced me anything was more durable than Rad or Elec.  In fact I built brute versions of them and still was stronger than what I perceived my invul tank to perform at.

 

Next I started running SR Scrappers and stalkers for a month or so.

 

Fast forward to the tank changes that are coming, I start reading more, and build crafting on tanks - 3 of them I already have invul, fire, and Rad and the shield I built.

 

Shield still feels the best but I didn't know about the scaling resist on SR - so I learned something that's useful that I'm definately going to check out.

 

This is all a collaboration of knowledge and yeah I want to be the best, but isn't that the goal for everyone?

Can someone post the link that describes the upcoming tank changes?

[Infinitum]

21 minutes ago, Xandyr said:

Can someone post the link that describes the upcoming tank changes?

I dont think there is one concise link yet

 

From what I understand

 

1. damage modifier to .95

2. Damage cap to 500

3. Increased cones on most sets-not TW

4. Increased aoe target cap.

5. Increased aoe radius

6. Increased taunt radius and scale

 

I may be wrong on some of that or they may have changed it, and none of that is set in stone.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Infinitum

[Microcosm]

2 hours ago, Infinitum said:

This is all a collaboration of knowledge and yeah I want to be the best, but isn't that the goal for everyone?

I'm really enjoying the whole convo for this reason. I'm not even a tank player, but the measuring contest is resulting directly in new info to me.

 

I'll just insert while I'm here that I'm a massive Electric armor fanboi. While you can't do both capped defense to all and capped resistance like you can with some others, you are protected from end drain completely, and resist slows as well. You can softcap s/l, which realistically covers so much since very few things don't have a s/l component, and get +rech and unlimited end which allow you to increase your damage output. Really though, the end drain protect is a gigantic boon when you do happen to need it. Rad is also good, as well as ice.

[Caulderone]

21 minutes ago, Microcosm said:

I'll just insert while I'm here that I'm a massive Electric armor fanboi. While you can't do both capped defense to all and capped resistance like you can with some others, you are protected from end drain completely, and resist slows as well. You can softcap s/l, which realistically covers so much since very few things don't have a s/l component, and get +rech and unlimited end which allow you to increase your damage output. Really though, the end drain protect is a gigantic boon when you do happen to need it. Rad is also good, as well as ice.

 

A friend of mine plays an Elec/StJ tanker with capped S/L/F/C/E/Psi, 70+ N, and 50+ T resists.  He has less than 10% defenses all around.

 

He does just fine, including tanking Lord Recluse (using a jetpack to flip instead of getting knocked back).  Solo, he has no particular issues that a few small inspriations can't fix.

 

We're all talking overkill here, obviously.  Teammates do bring along benefits in buffs/debuffs/etc.

 

 

[Infinitum]

11 minutes ago, Microcosm said:

I'm really enjoying the whole convo for this reason. I'm not even a tank player, but the measuring contest is resulting directly in new info to me.

 

I'll just insert while I'm here that I'm a massive Electric armor fanboi. While you can't do both capped defense to all and capped resistance like you can with some others, you are protected from end drain completely, and resist slows as well. You can softcap s/l, which realistically covers so much since very few things don't have a s/l component, and get +rech and unlimited end which allow you to increase your damage output. Really though, the end drain protect is a gigantic boon when you do happen to need it. Rad is also good, as well as ice.

Yeah went Elec armor crazy there for a while. I have a Elec Nrg tank, Nrg Elec brute, Rad Elec brute, Rad TW brute and the last one I made was a Psi Elec brute.

 

I first made the Elec Nrg tank first and got to looking how the res numbers were borderline overkill so I started looking at brutes just for the heck of it.

 

That's when my main from june to august was born the Rad Elec brute because aside from being a circus trick one shot boss killer Nrg isn't great. So I explored Rad.  Then I rolled a TW Elec brute which just never caught on with me - it was good, and I really wanted to like it, but in the end it sits dormant on the shelf completely unslotted.

 

Finally I rolled the psi Elec brute which became my main from July through september sharing time with the Rad Elec.  The psi Elec is faster and does mire damage than the Rad but is slightly weaker.

 

Late Sept I rolled the shield out and revamped my invul.  And that's how I got to be a shield fanboy, exemplared, endgame doesn't matter it plays more sturdy than anything I've built.  I even put it in AE with my Rad fire brute and put it on follow to double buff ageless and also double agro control the mobs and it won't die there either with no input needed.  I can literally herd all of monster island if it would let me and they cant kill it either.  I was nervous about not having a heal at first but not anymore, I dont need it.

 

On Elec armor though - back to it, You can soft cap melee defense which goes a looong way with elec armor.

[Infinitum]

9 minutes ago, Caulderone said:

 

A friend of mine plays an Elec/StJ tanker with capped S/L/F/C/E/Psi, 70+ N, and 50+ T resists.  He has less than 10% defenses all around.

 

He does just fine, including tanking Lord Recluse (using a jetpack to flip instead of getting knocked back).  Solo, he has no particular issues that a few small inspriations can't fix.

 

We're all talking overkill here, obviously.  Teammates do bring along benefits in buffs/debuffs/etc.

 

 

i like street justice a lot too.  IMO I would choose it over super strength from here on out because it feels more dynamic and quicker, without worrying about a rage crash.

 

It also does great damage, the other night on the Faathim I was hitting Nemesis, Mother mayhem and malaise for just a shade under 1000pts of damage regularly when I would hit combo 3 or hit combat readiness.

[Bopper]

@Infinitum @Caulderone

If interested, I updated the survival tool (you'll have to click the link again and open up a new local copy.)to include Additional Heal over Time (HPS). This is used to throw in any other Healing capabilities that you can average out over time. For example, the Heal from Dual Pain, you can take its HP divided by the recharge of the power and input that for your survival calculations. I also made the default enemy con to +3, since most end game builds will incorporate a T3+ Alpha incarnate for a level shift. I am still leaving the default enemy to-hit at 50%, so change that back to 63.75% for any of your incarnate calculations.

 

I want to also add in defense debuff resistance, however there is no good way to go about it without completely redesigning the tool. I would have to incorporate attacks per second (thus breaking down Attack DPS into an Attack Damage with the new Attacks per Second). I'd also have to add in the Defense Debuff amount per attack and Defense Debuff duration per attack. I'll get to it eventually, though.

 

If you spot any bugs, let me know.

[Crowcus Pocus]

On 11/5/2019 at 10:49 PM, Infinitum said:

Then roll an invul.  Go to monster island agro 4 GMs see which one survives the longest.

Out of curiosity, how long does your tank last under this scenario?

Edited November 10, 2019 by Falsey

[Infinitum]

24 minutes ago, Falsey said:

Out of curiosity, how long does your tank last under this scenario?

Well take a look at these.

 

I managed to get 11 or 12 to reliably agro.

 

On my shield which is the one in the pics I could survive forever. If it would let me I could herd the whole island and likely wouldnt fall.

 

On my Elec brute its a bit more tricky because the DE do a fair amount of toxic and while I patched the hole pretty good its still a hole they can get through every now and again, but if you stay on your toes and leverage melee core, rebirth radial and energize wisely its infinite survival also.

 

The cool one is the radiation armor brute, it has mechanics that allow ot to survive intimately also, the health bar moves alot bit you are never in any danger.

 

Haven't tried it with fire or invul yet.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Infinitum

[Crowcus Pocus]

Sweet. I took my Dark tank over there, aggroed 10 of them and went AFK (with dark regen on auto) for well over 1h now. It's still going.

 

I have no incarnates, nor my build is tweaked for full survivability. But I can tell that I could be in trouble if I were hit by a few -def attacks.

 

Gotta love Tanks.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Falsey

[Infinitum]

5 minutes ago, Falsey said:

Sweet. I took my Dark tank over there, aggroed 10 of them and went AFK (with dark regen on auto) for well over 1h now. It's still going.

 

I have no incarnates, nor my build is tweaked for full survivability. But I can tell that I could be in trouble if I were hit by a few -def attacks.

 

Gotta love Tanks.

Yep it keeps me coming back for more.

 

You could go ageless radial and wont have to worry about -def.

[Sir Myshkin]

Okay, I couldn't resist giving up 30:00 minutes of my life to doing this.

 

Bio/SS/Soul Tank (Beta)

Includes laughing through Rage crash. Musculature Alpha, and Ageless Core (so no defensive support), and Hybrid that's in the tray is Assault Core, so pure offense.

13 DE Monsters total, weren't anymore left on the Island, and one... phased out? Can't explain that.

Killed one just because I could (takes like eight minutes though). With the Swarms floating around, I was aggro capped--there were like three or four of them, pretty sure, hard to tell in that mess. To validate how many DE total there were/are, I pulled them out into the water at the end (so 12 remaining). Build isn't specifically designed to hard cap anything going in, either. With Offensive on it falls short on S/L resists from cap, and is only at 43% F/C/E/N defense. I flip back and forth between them to see the effective differences. With Defensive turned on, I'm confident I could walk away with just the toggles on and never die. When I take down the Lattice around 19:40-28:00, the only reason I activate DNA Siphon is for the -150% Regen debuff.

 

 

 

[nicoliy]

I've never heard of the monster island challenge. I'll have to take my elec/tw tank in there. I wonder how much I can handle. I'd venture to say a lot though as I never have issues surviving. My build isn't in front of me but I'm at the 90% resist cap for all but toxic (35% I think), and negative energy (65% maybe). Also sitting on 32.5 defense to to s/l/e/n I believe, so a purple away from softcap. With the heal and endless endurance, I never go down.

[Infinitum]

57 minutes ago, nicoliy said:

I've never heard of the monster island challenge. I'll have to take my elec/tw tank in there. I wonder how much I can handle. I'd venture to say a lot though as I never have issues surviving. My build isn't in front of me but I'm at the 90% resist cap for all but toxic (35% I think), and negative energy (65% maybe). Also sitting on 32.5 defense to to s/l/e/n I believe, so a purple away from softcap. With the heal and endless endurance, I never go down.

Careful, the fungoids do a lot of toxic damage.  Yes your Elec can do it but you have to stay on your toes.

 

Now if you just get the rock and crystal GMs you will be fine.

[nicoliy]

7 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Careful, the fungoids do a lot of toxic damage.  Yes your Elec can do it but you have to stay on your toes.

 

Now if you just get the rock and crystal GMs you will be fine.

Just did a test, waiting for Youtube to upload and I'll post. Got to 11 monsters and I think 3 of them were the fungoids. The toxic eventually did me in. I did not use inspirations or trigger my incarnate abilities. I think if I played my best I could have done a bit better, but it was a fun test. I actually did a pylon test after, and even though I screwed up my rotation quite a bit, I did that in about 8:30. Not exactly record breaking, but fun as a tanker. Could probably get closer to 7 min pylon kill if I played better. Recording the videos makes me nervous or something lol.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by nicoliy
Added video link

[Sir Myshkin]

1 hour ago, nicoliy said:

Got to 11 monsters and I think 3

Looks like you might've actually hit 12, you snagged one last Lattice near the end there it looked like, but definitely three Fungoids (3), a Quarry (1), some other Lattice's (4 total), and quite a few of the rocky ones whose name I can't recall that starts with an 'S' (4). Looks like you held up pretty well there for a bit, seemed like grabbing that last Lattice is what did you in, really.