Power pools adjustments

[CaptainSalerno]

In my very own and humble opinion, I find the whole power pool part of character building boring and in need of update. In my view, power pools just provide a few "mandatory" but "boring" powers (Combat jumping, tough, weave, maneuvers and hasten) while the rest of powers are basically useless, especially since you will never be able to slot them. For example, on my brute, I "need" to handle 4 toogles  (Combat jumping, tough, weave, maneuvers) just to increase my stats while I think it would be more interesting if power pools provided flavour and utility powers with an actual use.

I have a few ideas that I will list below, that I think will slightly improve the experience without requiring too much changes and balancing:

 

Combine hover, fly and afterburn in a single fly power (at the same time travel and defense without need to switch)

Combine combat jumping and super jump in a single super jump power (as above)

Combine teleport ally and teleport foes in a single teleport "other" power

Make tough and weave auto. Also the leadership pool could be auto

Hasten may be fused with Super speed in a single toogle power (this is more controversial)

Remove the 4 power pool limits

Make all attack powers as good as the attacks from powersets

 

This way we may have more freedom, for example having more than one travel power and some flavour (presence and medicine for example) without sacrifying the performance of the toon and without needing to change drastically the game balance

 

[boggo2300]

6 hours ago, CaptainSalerno said:

In my very own and humble opinion, I find the whole power pool part of character building boring and in need of update. In my view, power pools just provide a few "mandatory" but "boring" powers (Combat jumping, tough, weave, maneuvers and hasten) while the rest of powers are basically useless, especially since you will never be able to slot them. For example, on my brute, I "need" to handle 4 toogles  (Combat jumping, tough, weave, maneuvers) just to increase my stats while I think it would be more interesting if power pools provided flavour and utility powers with an actual use.

I have a few ideas that I will list below, that I think will slightly improve the experience without requiring too much changes and balancing:

 

Combine hover, fly and afterburn in a single fly power (at the same time travel and defense without need to switch)

Combine combat jumping and super jump in a single super jump power (as above)

Combine teleport ally and teleport foes in a single teleport "other" power

Make tough and weave auto. Also the leadership pool could be auto

Hasten may be fused with Super speed in a single toogle power (this is more controversial)

Remove the 4 power pool limits

Make all attack powers as good as the attacks from powersets

 

This way we may have more freedom, for example having more than one travel power and some flavour (presence and medicine for example) without sacrifying the performance of the toon and without needing to change drastically the game balance

 

/jranger

pure power creep

and btw I rarely taken any of your NEEDED toggles (Combat Jumping, Tough, Weave, and Maneuvers) and I don't think I've ever had all 4 on one toon

[Parabola]

The only thing in this vein I keep wishing for is being able to take tough and weave without boxing/kick to free up a power slot. Even that would be power creep we don't need overall though.

 

The trouble with freeing builds up for more flavour is that 99% of players would drive straight by more flavour and simply stuff more performance in.

[Jaack]

54 minutes ago, parabola said:

The only thing in this vein I keep wishing for is being able to take tough and weave without boxing/kick to free up a power slot. Even that would be power creep we don't need overall though.

 

The trouble with freeing builds up for more flavour is that 99% of players would drive straight by more flavour and simply stuff more performance in.

I was thinking it might be nice to make the Fighting pool like the travel pools and open up Tough to players at Lv 4 without any prerequesits, but you'd still have to take Boxing/Kick for Weave. That opens up option to low level players and tight builds without buffing top end builds that are still going to want Weave.

[Bossk_Hogg]

Only one I agree with is improving pool attacks by increasing their recharge by 50-100%, which will increase their damage accordingly. No one needs Boxing on a sub 1 second recharge. Also, speed up kick's animation.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Bossk_Hogg

[boggo2300]

2 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Only one I agree with is improving pool attacks by increasing their recharge by 50-100%, which will increase their damage accordingly. No one needs Boxing on a sub 1 second recharge. Also, speed up kick's animation.

this I can agree is a good change

[Sakura Tenshi]

If I'm to be perfectly honest: I'd rather buff some of the 'less desirable' pool powers to actually feel like you're making a good choice and not just using it as a stepping stone to get to something better. Let people be EXCITED to pick up boxing and kick and really WANT to get cross punch as much as they want Weave and Tough. Players should actually have to think if they really want Hasten or would rather pick up Flurry, jumpkick should feel just as tempting a choice as combat jumping, and so on. Those might be exaggerations, but you probably get my point, Sorcery and Force of Will actually have a lot of good power picks in the whole pool or at least something that doesn't feel like you're wasting a power pick just to get something better, so it seems even the live devs were hoping to improve power pool picks to feel less like a set mule at best and a chore at worst and more like something that would actually be part of your character's playstyle.

 

Here's a possible suggestion for Flurry, kind of power-creepy, but this is more for thematics: Flurry gains a recharge bonus with each other super speed power you pick, and not small ones either, say, +25% recharge bonus for each pick. Maybe have flurry itself also gain a limited (like, two to three more targets within melee range of the original) chaining damage. (sort of like you're rapidly moving between opponents to smack them too)

[Outrider_01]

17 hours ago, CaptainSalerno said:

Combine hover, fly and afterburn in a single fly power (at the same time travel and defense without need to switch)

Combine combat jumping and super jump in a single super jump power (as above)

Combine teleport ally and teleport foes in a single teleport "other" power

Make tough and weave auto. Also the leadership pool could be auto

Hasten may be fused with Super speed in a single toogle power (this is more controversial)

Remove the 4 power pool limits

Make all attack powers as good as the attacks from powersets

LOL welcome to consequence of choice.

 

You can't have everything, like asking to be paid without working for it.

 

All flight as one power?  Because of height, fly was generally considered slowest travel with a penalty to accuracy (forget if it has one, haven't considered it in 15 years), with height you got easy range with ability to avoid a lot of baddies who don't have ability to move vertical.

 

CJ with SJ? Have to balance by killing that "mandatory" +7.5 recharge fit, it is a jump power and defense is a bonus on the lesser which is a joke anyway.  It just let's you slot IO.

 

TP Ally and TP Foe?  Laughable, its probably coded for one as a pseudo buff and and the other as an attack.  Might be it, as TP group has no TP foe group alternative (lol OP AoE haxor! Easy mode), TP Ally and Group just have player tags and limit to group.

 

Tough, Weave, Manuevers as auto?  So you want no penalty to that none manditory power choice.  All of a sudden it makes those powers more desirable, it becomes manditory for something you only take by choice, they are mostly picked for IOs.  Endurance cost is your excuse for a silly suggestion, look for IO discounts, P2W has 3 minor buffs under temp powers with no ability to slot but passive or bring a buff friend.  Leadership was meant for groups far before IO and 7.5% recharge/Build up proc.

 

Hasten and SS? As you said, debatable but the fact that one speeds up everything is already the most powerful power pool pick by itself.  

 

More then 4 power pool limit? Its not a requirement to take any at all.  Free fitness is pushing it, players seemed to think Stamina was a requirement bandaid crutch cop out for poor management of endurance cost....there are end reduced, discounts in IO, friendly buffers, and self teaching to not spam powers.  More options will kill any reason to take powers already skipped for FOTM builds "since they will look better."

 

Reason there is a cost for anything, it's called consequence or you end up a god killing everything...gets boring.  100 end, HP caps for each AT balanced around their roles, endurance costs to pick the ability for the right moment.  Might was well go to Atlas and set brawl/origin newb power to auto, gonna get boring fast railroad spiking Skulls into the ground. 

 

Edit: I need to figure out how to make a signature, I have seen people with them.  Got to say in it "I can be an a$$, don't get offended.  It is who I am."  I always seem to do that 😞

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Outrider_01

[Lines]

My knee jerk reaction was "god, I really don't need more free power slots that I wouldn't know what to do with."

 

I echo folks wishing the attacks were a bit juicier. I'm taking the Force of Will pool thematically on a stalker and Wall of Force is underwhelming. I've tried it with a complete set of Positron's blast and also loaded with four damage procs, but it doesn't have much kick to it either way.

[summers]

I'm all for making more interesting choices, and some of the pools have some quite terrible options, but I'm not for the proposed level of amalgamation and freebies.

[Haijinx]

9 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Only one I agree with is improving pool attacks by increasing their recharge by 50-100%, which will increase their damage accordingly. No one needs Boxing on a sub 1 second recharge. Also, speed up kick's animation.

You could use the Storm Kick from the blaster Martial Combat that's faster and a great animation. 

 

Or you could use Thunder Kick, that's a lot faster. 

 

[Haijinx]

10 hours ago, boggo2300 said:

/jranger

pure power creep

and btw I rarely taken any of your NEEDED toggles (Combat Jumping, Tough, Weave, and Maneuvers) and I don't think I've ever had all 4 on one toon

I like to use my pools to round out my build.  My most recent build has Combat Jumping, Tough, Weave and Stealth 

But that is on me - I'm fine with the trade off.  Like losing 1.9 mph of flight speed  =p 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Haijinx

[boggo2300]

2 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I like to use my pools to round out my build.  My most recent build has Combat Jumping, Touch, Weave and Stealth 

But that is on me - I'm fine with the trade off.  Like losing 1.9 mph of flight speed  =p 

 

 

and thats exactly what pools are for, I do the same thing, but my priorities for rounding out my build are different, the proposal is just pure power creep though, I don't believe we disagree about that (or anything else in this thread it seems to me, just different aims)

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, boggo2300 said:

and thats exactly what pools are for, I do the same thing, but my priorities for rounding out my build are different, the proposal is just pure power creep though, I don't believe we disagree about that (or anything else in this thread it seems to me, just different aims)

Yeah I'm even opposed to being able to skip punch or kick for fighting.  Tough and Weave are really powerful.  Especially on builds where you have no access to resist set slots for those def ios.  

 

Pools are fine now, but if they wanted to add more pools or another power in each pool that was not more powerful than other pools, maybe.   But just making it easier to effectively get more pool powers in your build seems like pure power creep. 

 

[boggo2300]

5 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Yeah I'm even opposed to being able to skip punch or kick for fighting.  Tough and Weave are really powerful.  Especially on builds where you have no access to resist set slots for those def ios.  

 

Pools are fine now, but if they wanted to add more pools or another power in each pool that was not more powerful than other pools, maybe.   But just making it easier to effectively get more pool powers in your build seems like pure power creep. 

 

more pools I could get behind, but they'd need a good check on balance before going live

[CaptainSalerno]

Thank you all for your comments 😊. I am new to the game so I appreciate feedback from more experienced player. When I wrote down that proposal I saw them more as QoL than Power creep. My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that we are already at a point where a properly build character can steamroll everything so freeing a couple of slots or making a toogle auto won't change that too much. Not that my proposal would ever be implemented in the game. 😝

[Haijinx]

You have a point on the fact we may be way past Point Nowhere. 

[boggo2300]

14 minutes ago, CaptainSalerno said:

Thank you all for your comments 😊. I am new to the game so I appreciate feedback from more experienced player. When I wrote down that proposal I saw them more as QoL than Power creep. My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that we are already at a point where a properly build character can steamroll everything so freeing a couple of slots or making a toogle auto won't change that too much. Not that my proposal would ever be implemented in the game. 😝

the super easy mode only comes in once you get IO set enhancements and Incarnate powers, your proposal will be affecting from level 4 onward effectively shifting the power creep downwards to their (though only slightly, but it's a start) plus power slots are rarely the limitation anymore now we have inherent fitness, enhancement slots are and most pool powers never get extra slots, and some of us LIKE click on demand powers, they are ways to build tactics around,  hope this helps explain why I am so against your proposal

[Zepp]

Current formats:

 

Examples: Concealment, Leadership, Medicine, Presence,

Requirements:

1. Lvl 4 no powers
2. Lvl 4 no powers
3. Lvl 14 one power
4. Lvl 14 two powers
5. Lvl 14 two powers

Examples: Flight, Leaping, Speed, Teleportation

Requirements:

1. Lvl 4 no powers
2. Lvl 4 no powers
3. Lvl 4 no powers
4. Lvl 14 two powers
5. Lvl 14 two powers

Examples: Fighting

Requirements:

1. Lvl 4 no powers
2. Lvl 4 no powers
3. Lvl 14 one power
4. Lvl 14 one power
5. Lvl 14 two powers

Examples: Force of Will, Sorcery

Requirements:

1. Lvl 4 no powers
2. Lvl 4 no powers
3. Lvl 4 no powers
4. Lvl 14 two powers
5. Lvl 20 two powers

So you have four styles: Support, Travel, Fighting, and Origins. Unfortunately, this leads to an uneven feel to the pool power sets. My preference would be to convert all the power pool sets to the same distribution:

1. Lvl 4 no powers
2. Lvl 4 no powers
3. Lvl 4 no powers
4. Lvl 14 one powers
5. Lvl 20 two powers

Some of the pool power set orders may need to change and T5 powers may need to up their game, and also TP needs a full-on make-over. But that being said, I think that small adjustment could lead to a better overall experience.

[Haijinx]

TP would be great if you could put an IO in it that got rid of that dumb hover hang time 

 

Then you could do the whole Nightcrawler thing with binds. 

[boggo2300]

11 minutes ago, Zepp said:

Current formats:

 

Examples: Concealment, Leadership, Medicine, Presence,

Requirements:

1. Lvl 4 no powers
2. Lvl 4 no powers
3. Lvl 14 one power
4. Lvl 14 two powers
5. Lvl 14 two powers

Examples: Flight, Leaping, Speed, Teleportation

Requirements:

1. Lvl 4 no powers
2. Lvl 4 no powers
3. Lvl 4 no powers
4. Lvl 14 two powers
5. Lvl 14 two powers

Examples: Fighting

Requirements:

1. Lvl 4 no powers
2. Lvl 4 no powers
3. Lvl 14 one power
4. Lvl 14 one power
5. Lvl 14 two powers

Examples: Force of Will, Sorcery

Requirements:

1. Lvl 4 no powers
2. Lvl 4 no powers
3. Lvl 4 no powers
4. Lvl 14 two powers
5. Lvl 20 two powers

So you have four styles: Support, Travel, Fighting, and Origins. Unfortunately, this leads to an uneven feel to the pool power sets. My preference would be to convert all the power pool sets to the same distribution:

1. Lvl 4 no powers
2. Lvl 4 no powers
3. Lvl 4 no powers
4. Lvl 14 one powers
5. Lvl 20 two powers

Some of the pool power set orders may need to change and T5 powers may need to up their game, and also TP needs a full-on make-over. But that being said, I think that small adjustment could lead to a better overall experience.

I don't think there would be any issue changing pool powers like this, again, balance checking would be needed, but I think the idea is good

[boggo2300]

3 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

TP would be great if you could put an IO in it that got rid of that dumb hover hang time 

 

Then you could do the whole Nightcrawler thing with binds. 

actually considering why that's there, I think being able to turn it off at Null would be appropriate

[Saiyajinzoningen]

id like the epic power pools to be expanded, right now your choices are limited by your AT this isnt true of the other power pools

[Parabola]

23 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

id like the epic power pools to be expanded, right now your choices are limited by your AT this isnt true of the other power pools

As I understand it the epic pools are designed to fill in specific gaps for specific AT's - they are tailored to that purpose. If it was a free for all there might be significant balancing issues and the strength of the epic powers would probably be lowered. I'd certainly like to see more epic pools to give a greater range of thematic choice though.

[Outrider_01]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

TP would be great if you could put an IO in it that got rid of that dumb hover hang time 

 

Then you could do the whole Nightcrawler thing with binds. 

Have fun with full 360 degree on all axis with long rang and second if not first travel speed if SS has no elevation problems.  You are gonna fall every port and its gonna look like one of those heart beat monitors.

 

Now if the hover was equal to speed in flight for a short duration it might make it easier.