Revisit the Energy Melee nerfs

[Leogunner]

Just now, Rylas said:

Believe it or not, but not having mechanics like Insight, Contamination, Blood Frenzy, Combo Building or Momentum can be appealing. Sometimes it's nice to just punch and go.

The only reason I'd suggest a mechanic for the set is to appease the players that enjoy the current animations while also giving those that want a better attack flow using the old ET quick animation.

 

But I do agree, having sets retain some simplicity is a design consideration in itself and has its own appeal.

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Rylas said:

Believe it or not, but not having mechanics like Insight, Contamination, Blood Frenzy, Combo Building or Momentum can be appealing. Sometimes it's nice to just punch and go.

That's all you do with insight believe it or not.  And you still have build up on top of that.  Add in a Gaussian proc and you have triple build up sometimes.

 

Anything is better than what it us now, even a different looking animation would be better than the 3 sec hog that ET is now.  Funny thing is it fits with rad melee, and greater psi sword is 2.5 sec but it doesn't feel like it.  That's why I'm saying it's more of a flow problem with animation appeal than the actual elapsed time.

 

I've not felt the fun from the old EM set until I gave psi melee a shot.  I played it so much for the shear fun of it I was at 50 in 4 days.

 

I want em to feel like that again.

[Kimuji]

Like I said If that means that we're not dumping Build Up and ET/TF are still getting faster animations (without reduced damage of course), why not.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Kimuji

[Rylas]

4 hours ago, Kimuji said:

Like I said If that means that we're not dumping Build Up and ET/TF are still getting faster animations (without reduced damage of course), why not.

True. My main hope is reducing the animation times (ideally back to what they were). If anything was done to make improvements beyond that, I wouldn't complain so long as they still maintained the original feel of the set. 

[William Valence]

Even if the attempt at adding a mechanic to EM isn't the method most people want to go, the rest of my previous idea would hold up.

 

Give Energy transfer the animation from Telekinetic blow (with EM Fx) to increase it's DPA 69%. Give Total Focus Energy Transfer's current animation to increase it's DPA about 23%. While the singular DPA of ET would not be the same as it was way back when, spreading the animation time reduction would reduce total time in the two power's animations from 4.62s (If you just reduce ET to it's old animation) to 3.806s. Still doing 8.12 scale damage in that time.

 

Then if you think something still needs to be done, give stun a -regen or something.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by William Valence

[Tubalcain]

Give Total Focus and Energy Transfer some minor splash damage. Problem solved.

[Zenex]

I would be more than okay with just the old ET back. 

 

However I would love to see them do something about whril hands like increase the damage a tad and offer an alternate animation. As well as lower the animation on the stun because with et and tf its not worth to use

[ZeeHero]

Whirling hands on energy melee needs the same aoe radius as the Assault version.

[insulinboy]

I'd like to politely add my +1 to having the animation of ET back to what it was back in the day, please.

[LateNights]

I'd like to see the Total Focus animation moved to Whirling Hands (balance the power around it properly), as well as the changes Will Valance mentioned earlier.

[Galaxy Brain]

The assault set has a new mechanic that powers up some moves... that could be ported here?

[William Valence]

Doesn't look like that's what they did.

 

The Power up changes, from what it appears, were made to the three sets that have Power Boost instead of build up. It looks to work like a super Power Build Up. The animations I'm not entirely sure on. The only animation change I see is the 2.5s animation for TF and I'm not sure what animation that would actually be.

 

Unless there's a different change to Energy assault I'm missing.

[Cix]

1 hour ago, William Valence said:

Doesn't look like that's what they did.

 

The Power up changes, from what it appears, were made to the three sets that have Power Boost instead of build up. It looks to work like a super Power Build Up. The animations I'm not entirely sure on. The only animation change I see is the 2.5s animation for TF and I'm not sure what animation that would actually be.

 

Unless there's a different change to Energy assault I'm missing.

I think they're referring to the changes to Total Focus, Bone Smasher, and Whirling Hands.

 

From the Patch Notes:

  "Total Focus: Cast time shortened from 3.30 to 2.50 seconds.

  New special mechanic. Most single target attacks have a 20% chance of granting Energy Focus mode. Hitting a foe with Total Focus will always grant Energy Focus mode.

  While in this mode, Whirling Hands will inflict a large amount of bonus damage. Power Burst will do some bonus damage.

  The mode will be removed if a power with bonus is used."

 

I've played around with it on my Grav/En.  It definitely makes Whirling Hands worthwhile.  It does require a bit of a change to the combat flow, though.  It may not appeal to those who just want to smash with glowy hands.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Cix
Removed extraneous bit from the patch notes

[William Valence]

9 minutes ago, Cix said:

From the Patch Notes:

  "Total Focus: Cast time shortened from 3.30 to 2.50 seconds.

  New special mechanic. Most single target attacks have a 20% chance of granting Energy Focus mode. Hitting a foe with Total Focus will always grant Energy Focus mode.

  While in this mode, Whirling Hands will inflict a large amount of bonus damage. Power Burst will do some bonus damage.

  The mode will be removed if a power with bonus is used."

I missed that then.

 

That is giving me serious deja vu, but I can't put my finger on why.

[Shadowsleuth]

1 hour ago, Cix said:

From the Patch Notes:

  "Hitting a foe with Total Focus will always grant Energy Focus mode.

  While in this mode, Whirling Hands will inflict a large amount of bonus damage. Power Burst will do some bonus damage.

  The mode will be removed if a power with bonus is used."

 

It definitely makes Whirling Hands worthwhile.  It does require a bit of a change to the combat flow, though.  It may not appeal to those who just want to smash with glowy hands.

Instead of restricting it to Whirling Hands & Power Burst just have it apply the bonus damage to the next power used. That way the player isn't forced into a choice that changes their playstyle, they would have the freedom to use whatever power they want.

[Leogunner]

Just now, Shadowsleuth said:

Instead of restricting it to Whirling Hands & Power Burst just have it apply the bonus damage to the next power used. That way the player isn't forced into a choice that changes their playstyle, they would have the freedom to use whatever power they want.

You can use whatever power you want.  The description says, "The mode will be removed if a power with bonus is used" so you can follow up with whatever and the bonus won't disappear until you use one of those 2 skills or the buff expires.

 

Now if you're saying you want all attacks to have bonus damage, that might require more considerations of balance.  I personally see no problem with limiting the bonus effects to certain underperforming skills.  And for non-Dominator versions, you can even give a bonus chance for the buff on stunned foes to make the use of Stun more advantageous.

 

EDIT: In fact, maybe it might be interesting if this power was split but stackable.  What I mean is, what if the Energy Melee version of Energy Focus applied around 60% of the bonus damage of the Dom version...but you can stack it 3 times for 180% of the dom version's damage (ballpark numbers, btw) when you use the consumer skills to unload.  It'd be a kind of "Kinetic-melee" but crunchier version.  You'd still have to build up to it and a stack might wear off.

 

For consumer skills, I'd vote for Bone Smasher and Whirling Hands.  In a perfect world, there would also be a mechanic to make Energy Transfer have the old animation and burn no health if used with 3x Energy Focus.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Leogunner

[Myrmidon]

This is from the patch notes thread (concerning Dominators). Captain Powerhouse is looking into it. Relax and see what he comes up with for us to test.

[Zenex]

On 8/27/2019 at 3:43 AM, Zenex said:

I would be more than okay with just the old ET back. 

 

However I would love to see them do something about whril hands like increase the damage a tad and offer an alternate animation. As well as lower the animation on the stun because with et and tf its not worth to use

I was typing this on a phone that was very small so i'd like to expand a little more on this.

 

The big focus and for good reason is on the ET nerf and making the set more modern by adding something to it i.e. what psy melee has. 

Outside of this and their crazy animation time EM has two other useless powers in the mix. Whirling hands a longish aoe with damage that's unfitting for the animation, and Stun which has an animation like TF that no sane person would take becuase your attack chain ET, TF, Stun would be almost ten seconds long.

 

9 hours ago, William Valence said:

From the Patch Notes:

  "Total Focus: Cast time shortened from 3.30 to 2.50 seconds.

  New special mechanic. Most single target attacks have a 20% chance of granting Energy Focus mode. Hitting a foe with Total Focus will always grant Energy Focus mode.

  While in this mode, Whirling Hands will inflict a large amount of bonus damage. Power Burst will do some bonus damage.

  The mode will be removed if a power with bonus is used."

This is a wonderful start imho. It isn't the reverted ET but it would be close to a whole second off of ET + TF if the Brute/Tanker version got that.

It also does something about the aoe. 

 

I would also like to see stun changed because atm it's still pretty bad, and when people only look at EMs damage I think they often over look how potent it's stun stacking can be.

3 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

This is from the patch notes thread (concerning Dominators). Captain Powerhouse is looking into it. Relax and see what he comes up with for us to test.

= )

Edited August 28, 2019 by Zenex
Grammer

[Vanden]

What if they turned ET into a targeted AoE with only 5 max targets, similar to Thunder Strike? Each target besides the primary takes some Energy damage, but if you don't hit some extra targets you take that damage instead. As an example, if you hit only the primary target, it's identical to how it works now. Hit 1 other target, and you take half the damage you take now. Hit 2 or more extra targets, you take no damage.

 

I dunno, I'm just spitballing. I like the animation. I figure making it an AoE means the animation is more justified.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Vanden

[Supreme Ballista]

An Idea: Could we use the current ET animation on the first hit and then change to the old animation on the next hit? Something like Titan Weapons today does with the momentum build.    

Edited August 28, 2019 by Supreme Ballista

[Rylas]

11 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

*talking to self* Breathe, Rylas. Breathe. Long slow breaths, just like your therapist said to do when you get too excited. It's just a WIP, it doesn't mean anything just yet. Just don't get too worked up. No. NO. NO! Stop bouncing up and down in your seat! STOP IT! You're going to get sedated again!!

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, Rylas said:

*talking to self* Breathe, Rylas. Breathe. Long slow breaths, just like your therapist said to do when you get too excited. It's just a WIP, it doesn't mean anything just yet. Just don't get too worked up. No. NO. NO! Stop bouncing up and down in your seat! STOP IT! You're going to get sedated again!!

I'm with ya my friend, im with ya. 

 

I'm glad I took the time to roll my EM to 50+ despite the pig and carnival trick one shot machine it is.

[Rylas]

12 minutes ago, Supreme Ballista said:

An Idea: Could we use the current ET animation on the first hit and then change to the old animation on the next hit? Something like Titan Weapons today does with the momentum build.    

Please no. Let TItan Weapons keep it's uniqueness in momentum building. ET was a fast, swift set before and that's what people liked about it. That's what allowed it to shine in its own way before it was changed. If other mechanics are added, that's fine, but keeping it arbitrarily slowed for no real reason is what ruined it in the first place.

[Rylas]

3 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

I'm with ya my friend, im with ya. 

 

I'm glad I took the time to roll my EM to 50+ despite the pig and carnival trick one shot machine it is.

I might dust off the EM/Ice brute I made (as a tribute to my old Ice/EM Tanker). It's been sitting in the early 30s for a while. 

[Myrmidon]

I have my EM/Rad Brute which I will still play (regardless of any adjustments) because I really enjoy the look of the set.