That'll never work

[Infinitum]

24 minutes ago, KelvinKole said:

There does seem to be a bit of a consensus forming. 

 

Weakest primaries seem to be either Fire or Super Reflexes.

 

Fire does offer some damage mitigation in the form of removing enemies via fiery embrace and burn, and also has a very fast recharging heal. Resistances are not as bad as people might think. 

 

Super reflexes is a one trick pony, but with a very good trick. It will however have almost nothing to gain from external defense buffs or IO set bonuses. Good resistance buffs are not as common, so rounding out a stat sheet will be more difficult. I think I'll try my turn at Super Reflexes. 

 

Secondaries seem less certain. Energy Melee blooms late but with long activation powers (maybe not an issue with a passive set like super reflexes). It also offers almost no active damage mitigation (kb/kd, slows, etc.), but I guess a chance to stun is something. Stone melee and kinetic melee have also been mentioned. 

 

Super Reflxes/Kinetic melee might be interesting. 

 

 

That sounds like a mythical high tech space ninja.

[Zeraphia]

9 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

You guys really undervalued Energy Melee 😛

 

 

Edit: And to add towards the point of the thread, for what it's worth: Stone Melee, from a performance perspective. Does have some interesting tools at its disposal, but it's at the bottom of the damage supply, even Spines and Rad Melee topped out a bit better. If I ask myself "What Tanker combination would I never consider playing?" It'd be either SR/SM or WP/SM, they'd both be generic, banal, and slow. Stone Melee can kind of shore up some weakness in KD/KB, but that'll only carry so far.

This is with Bio Armor really boosting its damage and dipping into Patron powers, still though a 2:30 pylon time for a tanker is no joke, great job!

 

But the issue with EM is not essentially its damage, the issue with EM is the lack of ability to add in -res procs, the extremely long animation times, and very little payout effects on its powers. Stone provides knockdowns which are extremely effective in mitigating a team's survival. Its T9 hit also accepts better procs than what EM offers because it is at least a hold. 

[eknudson]

1 hour ago, KelvinKole said:

Super reflexes is a one trick pony, but with a very good trick. It will however have almost nothing to gain from external defense buffs or IO set bonuses. Good resistance buffs are not as common, so rounding out a stat sheet will be more difficult. I think I'll try my turn at Super Reflexes. 

 

Secondaries seem less certain. Energy Melee blooms late but with long activation powers (maybe not an issue with a passive set like super reflexes). It also offers almost no active damage mitigation (kb/kd, slows, etc.), but I guess a chance to stun is something. Stone melee and kinetic melee have also been mentioned. 

 

Super Reflxes/Kinetic melee might be interesting. 

 

 

Interesting that you brought up SR/Stone because I recently started a new tank and I debated long between SR/Stone and SR/Ice as two possibly underrated and underplayed combos (both are at the very bottom of the "flavor of the month" list).  My logic was that SR doesn't get hit often, but the RNG says sometimes it will happen and you'll want a self-heal. Which neither set has, but both have an awesome knockdown power allowing a little breathing space to run Aid Self (ice patch and fault). 

 

In looking for "that will never work", one of your two top candidates was a finalist for my "that could work together surprisingly well"!  I did eventually decide on SR/Ice, mostly because I liked the look of it's AoE potential. 

[KelvinKole]

27 minutes ago, eknudson said:

Interesting that you brought up SR/Stone because I recently started a new tank and I debated long between SR/Stone and SR/Ice as two possibly underrated and underplayed combos (both are at the very bottom of the "flavor of the month" list).  My logic was that SR doesn't get hit often, but the RNG says sometimes it will happen and you'll want a self-heal. Which neither set has, but both have an awesome knockdown power allowing a little breathing space to run Aid Self (ice patch and fault). 

 

In looking for "that will never work", one of your two top candidates was a finalist for my "that could work together surprisingly well"!  I did eventually decide on SR/Ice, mostly because I liked the look of it's AoE potential. 

Yes, I can see some synergy in both of those combos. Stone actually has a lot of CC with Kb/Kd and you can just straight up hold bosses with seismic smash. As a melee controller, it may be one of the best sets. 

 

Ice too has a lot slows and ice patch, as you mentioned. Pairing with SR means less attacks are coming at you and the percentages stay in your favor. Another strong melee controller set. Frost and Frozen aura should really enjoy the recent changes. 

[eknudson]

What I can see so far in an SR tanker confirms what I expected, FYI. SR is really good early. It's one of the best sets I've tried for making a survivable tank pre IO sets and even SOs.  At level 12, with nothing more than a couple of level 15 def IOs in focused fighting and one in Dodge I was running over 30% melee defense.  Probably the toughest tank I've played at that level.  I'm curious to see how it does on a Positron TF.

 

I can definitely see the concern that at level 50+ it may not be as easily enhanceable as some-- my dark tank for example has 45% defense to all but psionic and 90% resistance to all but energy and toxic-- but at low to medium levels SR is as strong as any I think.  And being able to basically laugh at def debuffs and get defense to the incarnate soft cap looks promising.

[Infinitum]

19 minutes ago, eknudson said:

What I can see so far in an SR tanker confirms what I expected, FYI. SR is really good early. It's one of the best sets I've tried for making a survivable tank pre IO sets and even SOs.  At level 12, with nothing more than a couple of level 15 def IOs in focused fighting and one in Dodge I was running over 30% melee defense.  Probably the toughest tank I've played at that level.  I'm curious to see how it does on a Positron TF.

 

I can definitely see the concern that at level 50+ it may not be as easily enhanceable as some-- my dark tank for example has 45% defense to all but psionic and 90% resistance to all but energy and toxic-- but at low to medium levels SR is as strong as any I think.  And being able to basically laugh at def debuffs and get defense to the incarnate soft cap looks promising.

Don't forget about the scaling resistance.

[KelvinKole]

Meet Wireless Will. Paragon City's newest Super Reflexes/Kinetic Melee Tanker. He lives inside the vast network of radio signals all around us, constantly connected and everywhere all at once. He is able to manifest a physical form of pure data to dislike his foes in person!

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

17 hours ago, KelvinKole said:

 

 

Is dual blades as trashy as it looks on paper? Some longish animation times, relience on combos, and unimpressive damage given those conditions. 

I recently started a Fire/Dual Blades as part of a separate project.  It’s just awful.  I’m only at lvl 15 but it’s the worst combo I recall playing.

[Sura]

10 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

This is no longer the case for Willpower, since it’s taunt duration was brought up to par with the rest of the non-damage auras with the Page 4 release. (Correction - It looks like this part isn’t present in the patch notes, so I will have to go with the premise that this change didn’t make it live. Disregard it for the time being and keep those Taunt IOs in Rise to the Challenge for a tad longer).

 

 

 

Also, Kinetic Melee has two range attacks that proc Gauntlet around their primary target(s), so it has far more aggro control capability than most people think. In fact, I just wrote up a potential build for a DA/KM Tanker yesterday afternoon for the moment when I feel like making another character.

Yikes!  I've been trying Willpower and thought that the aura had been fixed.  It's not specified in the patch notes, but hopefully it falls under "All Auras that take endurance cost enhancements will taunt the enemies they hit."?  From the Jan. 23 patch notes.

 

Probably best to put a taunt in there just in case...

[Menelruin]

I have a DB/SR brute that I've been considering rerolling as a tanker....

[Leogunner]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I recently started a Fire/Dual Blades as part of a separate project.  It’s just awful.  I’m only at lvl 15 but it’s the worst combo I recall playing.

I have a Brute version. Seems alright to me. If you don't concern yourself with Combos too much (they are a guide line, not a boarder) if almost had too much AoE. The KD helps keep damage down. And concept-wise, he's one of my favorites. 

[Uun]

I just hit 50 with my SR/Staff tank. Despite all the negative press, I find that it's a beast and incredibly durable. BTW, there's a lot you can do with IO set bonuses. Going from memory, I'm running at 50-60% defense to all positional types, a decent amount of psi defense (for non-positional attacks), 50% S/L resistance, and ~20% resistance to F/C/E/N/T/P (excluding scaling resistance).

[Doomguide2005]

I have absolutely got to get my computer up and running and try an SR tank because having run multiple SR Scrappers and Brutes ... well something is whack with a thread that puts SR in contention for worst tanker set.  Maybe it's a  case of everything being overpowered as all and SR is simply the 10 on a rating scale of 1 to 10 and all the other sets are 11's!!! but ... 

 

There's a reason everyone and their mothers strives for capped defenses.  And yet somehow this is labeled the worst set???

Edited February 19, 2020 by Doomguide2005
Additional ranting 😳

[Menelruin]

1 minute ago, Doomguide2005 said:

I have absolutely got to get my computer up and running and try an SR tank because having run multiple SR Scrappers and Brutes ... well something is whack with a thread that puts SR in contention for worst tanker set.  Maybe it's a  case of everything being overpowered as all and SR is simply the 10 on a rating scale of 1 to 10 and all the other sets are 11's!!! but ... 

Iunno if you Tank as a Brute, but I think the idea is that SR is fine for short durations of enemy attention, but if it's CONSTANT, then you're going to get nailed due to Streakbreaker over and over again.

[Doomguide2005]

Well that would be one potential issue ... but having stood on top of towers in Cimerora(alone) run AE mission designed to chew up defense, etc. etc..  I can't imagine a tanker version being less survivable than my Claws/SR scrapper built to her standards.  Then again maybe that is the issue.  She had a ton of time devoted to tweeking her build.  Few of my builds got that attention and the others we're not quite as durable overalll.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Doomguide2005

[Haijinx]

My SR/SS tank is designed to have 65% defense so I can Lulz rage crash.  

 

I died twice on my way to 50.  Both on  Posi 1.  (People and those stairs ..)  

 

I was intending to get to perma hasten perma double Rage, etc. But I got bored and moved on to something else.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KelvinKole]

1 hour ago, SaintD said:

Anyone who says /SR is any kind of bad should get filed under "Yeah whatever, genius" in the circular filing cabinet. It's like a Nazi salute at a political talk, no-one has to bother listening to you anymore.

 

You can def cap it with just SO's and it craps defres like a slippery pinata. It turns into a walnut the more you hit it.

 

Like, here's an idea, it's a radical one I know, completely crazy, but if /SR deals with defense in a way nothing else does maybe you can....build IO bonuses for something other than defense. Eeek! Oh my god! It's so perverse, I can't believe I said it! Ew! I could go crazy with regen or recharge or anything else! Ahhhh, someone stop me!

I don't think anyone is really saying it's that bad. But when most other sets can cap multiple resistances and still get to the defense cap, and/or still benefit from external defense buffs then the ceiling is much higher on other sets. Super reflexes has a really high floor but the ceiling is likely lower. 

[Uun]

Yes, eventually the RNG will allow something to get through. Most of the time it barely nudges your health bar and you just heal it back. It has to be something that hits REALLY hard and kills you in one shot. Otherwise, you're standing there at 10% health with capped defenses and close to capped resistance (due to scaling damage resistance) and can pop some inspirations.  The last time I died, the Crimson Prototype hit me for over 1,000 hp.

 

Also, most sets that get to the defense cap via IO bonuses have no resistance to defense debuffs. SR tank has 121% resistance to defense debuffs. The risk is tohit buffs. 

[Haijinx]

You do have a situation where defense buffs are much more common than Resist buffs

 

A SR tanker doesn't need def buffs, so that does lead  to some wasted support.

 

Something like WP just gets stronger and stronger no matter what support is available.  

 

The only thing being if you can survive indefinitely in a sea of +4s, maybe it doesn't matter. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

5 hours ago, Leogunner said:

I have a Brute version. Seems alright to me. If you don't concern yourself with Combos too much (they are a guide line, not a boarder) if almost had too much AoE. The KD helps keep damage down. And concept-wise, he's one of my favorites. 

Maybe it's a tanker thing v. a brute, but pre-combos, I spend what feels like hours but is only minutes hitting trolls (or missing them, even worse!) for a few points of damage.   I'm sure she'll get better.

[Ironscarlet]

My 2 cents SR/ is the best leveling  Tank  it can soft cap def at lvl 18. Yes, lvl 18 soft cap def but at max level it is overshadowed by IO builds. 

 

So what is more important  leveling or end game to a person?

[Sir Myshkin]

14 hours ago, KelvinKole said:

Super Reflxes/Kinetic melee might be interesting. 

I had a KM/SR Scrapper on Retail that I absolutely loved. The ability to get to 59% Defense for those trials is awesome, and you get complete freedom of your Incarnate abilities to fill whatever gap you want.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Repeat error 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Yomo Kimyata

[Warboss]

A little late to the party, but in the past, DA/Stone Melee and DA/Ice Melee have been the problem children. DA/SM becasue "who needs END?" and DA/IM because "meh" (and DA/Fiery Melee was far more fun). Changes to IM helped with it, current changes to the Tanker secondaries have likely helped it even more (haven't played the combo again, here).