Melee AT Roles

[jubakumbi]

9 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Is a pretty braindead way of asking "do the characters I made do the things I built them to do?" 

 

You can make a Stalker tank, you can make a Tanker DPS, you can make a blaster support, etc. If you build them to do that. If you didn't know that already, you don't think that calls into question your credentials? 

And people think I am prickly, jeesh.

[Leogunner]

1 minute ago, jubakumbi said:

And people think I am prickly, jeesh.

That's fine. 

 

And when you decide to make a quality suggestion, I will be there to give you quality feedback or incite discussion if there is none. 

[MunkiLord]

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

If my blaster can take point, keep aggro on him, 

The keeping aggro part I find difficult with my Blasters. That's because things either die so fast it doesn't matter, or some lame Brute or Tank steals the aggro. Scrappers do it too, but Scrappers are never lame and everyone wants to be a Scrapper. My Archery/Temp Blaster has Provoke and outside of an all Blaster ITF I ran, Provoke has been pretty useless for me.

[Bill Z Bubba]

44 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Is a pretty braindead way of asking "do the characters I made do the things I built them to do?" 

 

You can make a Stalker tank, you can make a Tanker DPS, you can make a blaster support, etc. If you build them to do that. If you didn't know that already, you don't think that calls into question your credentials? 

 

The people that feel the need to question others' gaming cred are generally the same type of people that are the true wastes of space on the planet.

 

I was interested in others' thoughts. I got them. Goal met.

[jubakumbi]

45 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

The people that feel the need to question others' gaming cred are generally the same type of people that are the true wastes of space on the planet.

 

I was interested in others' thoughts. I got them. Goal met.

GOOOOOOOOOAAAAAALLLL!!!!!

[Leogunner]

45 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

The people that feel the need to question others' gaming cred are generally the same type of people that are the true wastes of space on the planet.

 

I was interested in others' thoughts. I got them. Goal met.

And you are the one asking for validation of your game cred and I feel THAT is a waste of space. Glad to see you see my perspective. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

16 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

And you are the one asking for validation of your game cred and I feel THAT is a waste of space. Glad to see you see my perspective. 

 

Where you got that, I'll never know. But I'm pretty sure a thorazine drip and 3 squares a day would help you out some.

 

Did someone steal your binky?

[Snarky]

Can i haz gam kredz naoh?!?

[Yomo Kimyata]

21 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I would have to respond that the general consensus is wrong. And the pylon thread is a great place for data showing that.

 

But so is actually playing each AT with the same sets. As I already have a BZB Scrap, a BZB Brute and a BZB tank, all claws and super reflexes, all I need to do is PL up the stalker and dump 750mil to kit him out.

 

What I've learned, tested and expected so far? Exactly what I stated in the OP.

I've leveled Staff/Bio to 50 on scrapper, tank, and stalker; and to 40 on brute.  All my builds basically play in Body/Offensive, and look to maximize melee defense, recharge, and s/l resistance in that order.

 

My observations are that based on normal play (scaling up to +4/x8 by 50), things are about as expected with tanker, brute, scrapper in terms of survivability (decreasing) and damage output (increasing).  The scrapper is the weakest one of the bunch, as its damage output hasn't made up for the lower resists.  The tanker was a pleasant surprise, and thanks in part to ATOs has great resistance without even trying, but has the hardest time with AVs in terms of damage output.

 

My stalker, however, I consider to be the shining star.  Damage output is so great versus mobs that surviving isn't really even in question, since in this case the best defense truly is a strong offense.  I attribute part of this to the power of a very strong single target chain as well as a strong AoE chain.

 

I haven't run them against pylons, so this is anecdotal and entirely my opinion.

[Leogunner]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Where you got that, I'll never know. But I'm pretty sure a thorazine drip and 3 squares a day would help you out some.

 

Did someone steal your binky?

Well it's good to see the OP contributing to the waste of space thread with more waste of space posts. Proof positive right there. 

 

Also, appreciate the positive rep but it's not necessary. 

[Wavicle]

5 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Well it's good to see the OP contributing to the waste of space thread with more waste of space posts. Proof positive right there. 

 

Also, appreciate the positive rep but it's not necessary. 

I found it to be an interesting discussion.

 

And I find your rude dismissals of it distasteful. If you’re not interested in the discussion, why are you commenting?

[MunkiLord]

52 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I've leveled Staff/Bio to 50 on scrapper, tank, and stalker; and to 40 on brute.  All my builds basically play in Body/Offensive, and look to maximize melee defense, recharge, and s/l resistance in that order.

 

My observations are that based on normal play (scaling up to +4/x8 by 50), things are about as expected with tanker, brute, scrapper in terms of survivability (decreasing) and damage output (increasing).  The scrapper is the weakest one of the bunch, as its damage output hasn't made up for the lower resists.  The tanker was a pleasant surprise, and thanks in part to ATOs has great resistance without even trying, but has the hardest time with AVs in terms of damage output.

 

My stalker, however, I consider to be the shining star.  Damage output is so great versus mobs that surviving isn't really even in question, since in this case the best defense truly is a strong offense.  I attribute part of this to the power of a very strong single target chain as well as a strong AoE chain.

 

I haven't run them against pylons, so this is anecdotal and entirely my opinion.

I don't have many Stalkers, and definitely not one that mirrors what I've made as a Scrapper. But I have a similar experience with a couple of my Blasters. They do so much damage that I feel as every bit as safe and survivable as I do on most Scrappers, though it's more active mitigation. 

[Coyote]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Can i haz gam kredz naoh?!?

 

I think this is the best way to derail this train wreck before it crashes... or some other way of Brutifying a tangled metaphor.

 

So continuing... so far I'm calling it pretty even, with one crit to each side. LeoG is up 14-12 at halftime on the strength of a fumble. Not so sure about a recovery, but there definitely were some fumbles in the first half 😉

[Lines]

Good lord, this should not be a prickly discussion. Is there even anything to disagree over?

[Wavicle]

52 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

 waste of space thread with more waste of space posts.

What does this even mean? Is there a hard limit on how many threads the forums can have?

[Widower]

Let us get away from discussing the thread and back to... well, discussing the topic of the thread.

[Haijinx]

20 minutes ago, Lines said:

Good lord, this should not be a prickly discussion. Is there even anything to disagree over?

Because Forums?

[Lines]

Just now, Haijinx said:

Because Forums?

Ah yes. Quite.

 

 

They may be pseudo melee, but where do dominators fit on the damage output spectrum?

[Haijinx]

2 minutes ago, Lines said:

 

 

 

They may be pseudo melee, but where do dominators fit on the damage output spectrum?

Thus my contention that there is a difference between COX scrapping and the more generic "dps"

 

Dominators and Blasters do there own kind of Melee thing.  

[Lines]

15 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Thus my contention that there is a difference between COX scrapping and the more generic "dps"

 

Dominators and Blasters do there own kind of Melee thing.  

All scrapping is dps but not all dps is scrapping sorta deal?

 

I could echo that.

[Wavicle]

24 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Thus my contention that there is a difference between COX scrapping and the more generic "dps"

 

Dominators and Blasters do there own kind of Melee thing.  

My argument would be that self defense itself is not a role.  Active mitigation like CC is, because it protects the whole team.  But most Blasters don't do enough active mitigation for it to really be an AT role.  Therefore Blasters, like Scrappers, are pure dps, but Doms are a hybrid of some kind.

And YES (good lord) I understand that ALL ATs can be hybridized to some extent, but that's not really the point.  If you don't restrict the discussion to Primary/Secondary it becomes pointless.

[MunkiLord]

1 hour ago, Lines said:

Ah yes. Quite.

 

 

They may be pseudo melee, but where do dominators fit on the damage output spectrum?

Their melee modifier is 1.05 and Scrapper is 1.125, but I don't know how that compares to Blasters or even Stalkers. Dominators can put up big melee numbers, but obviously have less melee attacks compared to the melee ATs. Seismic Smash can do over 1100 damage if all my procs hit. 

[biostem]

We're all very experienced players at this point.  The notes about role, etc during character creation are for newer or unfamiliar players, and while not perfect, they serve that purpose well enough.  I certainly don't have an issue with players making their characters however they like - but if they deviate a bit from their chosen ATs typical functionality, then you'll need to adjust/compensate and work with what you have...

[@Ghost]

25 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

Their melee modifier is 1.05 and Scrapper is 1.125, but I don't know how that compares to Blasters or even Stalkers. Dominators can put up big melee numbers, but obviously have less melee attacks compared to the melee ATs. Seismic Smash can do over 1100 damage if all my procs hit. 

The majority of Dominator playstyles will intermix melee and range, jumping in and out. Overall though, I think their damage is competitive in most scenarios, but they get a whole bonus control powerset for absolutely free! Or, at least, that's how it's felt in my experience so far. A lot of teams seem to move faster than the need for control could reasonably be appreciated. Might just be mid-level woes, since everything I've heard suggests Doms shift into a 13th gear once you really start factoring in set bonuses.

 

I think Soldiers and Widows are more interesting to compare to, though. I haven't taken any to 50 on HC yet but from my memory, playing a Night Widow was just Stalker But Better (before Stalkers were buffed to the stars, anyway.)

 

 

[DR_Mechano]

Just now, phocks said:

The majority of Dominator playstyles will intermix melee and range, jumping in and out. Overall though, I think their damage is competitive in most scenarios, but they get a whole bonus control powerset for absolutely free! Or, at least, that's how it's felt in my experience so far. A lot of teams seem to move faster than the need for control could reasonably be appreciated. Might just be mid-level woes, since everything I've heard suggests Doms shift into a 13th gear once you really start factoring in set bonuses.

 

I think Soldiers and Widows are more interesting to compare to, though. I haven't taken any to 50 on HC yet but from my memory, playing a Night Widow was just Stalker But Better (before Stalkers were buffed to the stars, anyway.)

 

 

Yeah Doms don't get shift in to gear until you really get Perma-Dom on them...which can be quite the expense but, apparently, once they hit perma-dom they're basically death dealing machines so I'm told. Admittedly the highest I've got a Dom is level 7...