The Broken Brutes Effect (please buff them)

[blackswan]

Now that I have your attention, I'm not actually advocating the buffing of brutes - quite the opposite actually.

 

So, I made a stalker and within a few levels I noticed how pointless it all felt when I have a brute. And with that, I realized a whole bunch of other things about this game including some that I feel would change it for the better (by a lot).

 

Why even make another melee class when my brute has more damage than any other AT in the game and has more survivability (without musculature incarnate).  It just feels like brutes are so strong that they replace every other dps class. They have more aoe, more survivability, way higher damage cap.

 

Additionally, for whatever reason, the game just feels kind of "meh" because you get into a team and just faceroll through +4 x 8 mobs like they're butter in a frying pan. It feels like the overall higher survivability of classes in general has devalued debuff mechanics, healers, and tactical game play. I remember in OG live, you felt a huge sigh of relief when an emp joined your team. Now, it's kind of a drag because you're losing precious DPS.

 

A couple of suggestions imo that would make the game more fun:

- Give tankers a reason to exist such as bringing raid-wide buffs, or more debuffs to the table.

- Dramatically buff AVs/give them mechanics so that they're not just a super high hp mob that you nuke down.

- Nerf IOs bonuses - they make it so any class can become insanely tanky. This devalues healers/debuffs/tankers/tactical game play.

- Make powers more interactive so that every mob isn't about just spamming your aoe abilities/highest dmg ability. For example (suggestion), make the fire blasters "blaze" only become available if the target is first ignited by flares. Then every time you cast a fire ability, it lowers the cooldown on inferno by .5 seconds or whatever. Just make power pools more interactive.

- Lastly, maybe for MMs, keep all pets at the same level but nerf their damage? when you're mentored as an MM and your pets are like 8 levels below the mobs, you feel COMPLETELY useless.

 

What do you guys think of this suggestion?

[Saiyajinzoningen]

ahh the old "everyone is too strong the game is too easy and im bored so lets nerf everything" request in disguise trick. Nice try lol 

[Haijinx]

Kind of lost me at Stalkers are pointless because Broots.

 

 

[summers]

31 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Kind of lost me at Stalkers are pointless because Broots.

 

 

Same, sorry. Stalkers are love 🙂

[Sif]

1 hour ago, blackswan said:

Why even make another melee class when my brute has more damage than any other AT in the game and has more survivability (without musculature incarnate).

Scrappers out damage Brutes. Stalkers out damage Scrappers (for ST, AoE is a bit more complicated, but usually goes to Scrapper with the older sets)

 

Blasters will often out damage everyone.

1 hour ago, blackswan said:

I remember in OG live, you felt a huge sigh of relief when an emp joined your team. Now, it's kind of a drag because you're losing precious DPS.

Emps have buffs that boost DPS (+damage, +recharge, +recovery - in addition to other buffs).

 

As a side note, lose the "healer" mentality, this isn't <insert holy trinity MMO>. It's so bizarre how there's so many non-new CoH players on HC who worship at the altar of heals, I'd have expected people that played CoH for years to know that heals are a small tool in the (de)buffer's toolbox, not their sole job.

[AerialAssault]

Does anyone else think it's funny that it's always Brute mains complaining that the game is too easy and not, for example, Force Field/Psionic Blast Defenders?

[Lines]

I've never dished out damage on a brute as well as I have on a Stalker. 

 

The MM suggestion has come up a bunch of times and it has weight. MMs definitely need some love. The new henchman AI was really neat, though.

 

I'm always in the corner of having more challenges and difficulty options, but I think adjusting the way that players have settled into playing their characters is rife with trouble. The new options should ideally be extrinsic.

[VileTerror]

I'll never understand this mindset of treating City of Heroes like "Damage Farmsville."  If you wanna play Farmsville, I think there are a few variations out there to try.  

 

Snark aside; I would like to offer to this player the same advice I've offered to other players making similar concerns apparent:  If the difficulty curve of this game is not satisfying to you, I encourage you to branch out and take part in the myriad OTHER ways to enjoy this massively multiplayer online roleplaying game.  Because it does have quite a bit to offer outside of DPS, and the Homecoming Team isn't going to magic-wand away the feeling that things are "too easy."

[DR_Mechano]

3 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Kind of lost me at Stalkers are pointless because Broots.

 

 

Considering Stalkers easily out burst and out single target most brutes by a country mile. StJ/Bio Stalker can literally 3 shot an Elite boss with its opening salvo once fully IO'd out, even the mighty TW/Bio scrapper (which also outdamages its Brute counterpart) has a hard time replicating burst damage on that scale. 

 

I'm guessing the OP is comparing a fully IO'd out Brute to a barely level 20 Stalker without the two game changing ATOs (Chance for build up refresh anywhere and the Chance for Hide proc in Assassin's strike)

 

And yes I do find it amusing it's always Brute players that complain the game is too easy and not, for example, any sort of Defender/Controller player because most of them have to choose between Single target or AoE and can't really have both to the extent a Brute or Scrapper can.

[Auroxis]

As @DR_Mechano said both Stalkers and Scrappers out-DPS Brutes.

 

As for Tankers, once you reach end-game levels with team damage buffs and/or a complete build, their AoE damage output is pretty much identical, if not superior in certain scenarios. As for ST damage output, at the end-game Tankers aren't that far-off from Brutes (some builds even have identical performance) and have more burst since you don't need to build Fury.

 

So while there may be some issues, they're with class identity and not with balance.

[Solarverse]

These threads are popping up more and more and the reason why I think they are, is that more and more people are growing tired of EZ PZ mode and wish the game was more like it was pre issue 5.

 

The OP has a valid complaint, unfortunately the damage has already been done and there is no fixing it without a Vanilla server being created.

 

A lot of players love the game just the way it is, so this won't be an option for this server. I'm sure eventually somebody out there will come out with a Vanilla server and maybe keep the new powersets. Until then, all you can do is make best of what you have.

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

These threads are popping up more and more and the reason why I think they are, is that more and more people are growing tired of EZ PZ mode and wish the game was more like it was pre issue 5.

 

The OP has a valid complaint, unfortunately the damage has already been done and there is no fixing it without a Vanilla server being created.

 

A lot of players love the game just the way it is, so this won't be an option for this server. I'm sure eventually somebody out there will come out with a Vanilla server and maybe keep the new powersets. Until then, all you can do is make best of what you have.

Scuse me, but which point is valid? 

The erroneous statement that brutes out damage stalkers?

 

tankers have no reason to exist? (ive rolled 3 to 50 in the last 3 week's)

 

You want hard, play a lady gray tf on +4 with no control.  Then get back to me.

 

You are just reading what you want to see because the first few points are so far out of whack you cant possibly take the rest of it seriously.

 

Oh yeah, /jranger

[Solarverse]

34 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Scuse me, but which point is valid? 

The erroneous statement that brutes out damage stalkers?

 

tankers have no reason to exist? (ive rolled 3 to 50 in the last 3 week's)

 

You want hard, play a lady gray tf on +4 with no control.  Then get back to me.

 

You are just reading what you want to see because the first few points are so far out of whack you cant possibly take the rest of it seriously.

 

Oh yeah, /jranger

Settle down there, Beavis. The part that I am referring to should have been evident, but since you want to get your panties all up in a wad over it, I'll explain to you so that little kids can understand. The game has gotten too easy, that was his valid point.

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

Settle down there, Beavis. The part that I am referring to should have been evident, but since you want to get your panties all up in a wad over it, I'll explain to you so that little kids can understand. The game has gotten too easy, that was his valid point.

Oh I'm calm,

 

I'm not pearl clutching every single day that the game has gotten too easy because of mission stomp all pre incarnate content with a fully decked out incarnate.

 

Sure its too easy under those criteria, but that is why we have working brains to play content that is a challenge with our best characters instead of minion stomping council in radio missions.

[arcane]

Faintly related question about game difficulty that I was wondering about: have any of the complainers ever tried using custom AE mobs to create more difficulty? Like creating enemy groups with much scarier sorts of powers (presumably a lot more buff/debuff/control and damage type diversity)?

[Solarverse]

23 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Oh I'm calm,

 

I'm not pearl clutching every single day that the game has gotten too easy because of mission stomp all pre incarnate content with a fully decked out incarnate.

 

Sure its too easy under those criteria, but that is why we have working brains to play content that is a challenge with our best characters instead of minion stomping council in radio missions.

There are many reasons some players find the game to be too easy. One reason off the top of my head is that players seem to really enjoy playing on +0. That is okay, but it seems a growing number of players are wishing they had a better way to play the content, from start to finish, on a more challenging level. There just doesn't seem to be enough of us who want this...we are too spread out.  I have tried to put together groups for harder content, but I just can't seem to rope them in. Which is why I say that if we had a Vanilla-like server, it would be a home to players who prefer playing a certain way, where all classes are needed/wanted. As the game stands now, no class is really needed, the power creep is just that powerful these days. Which is fine, to each their own.

[Solarverse]

20 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Faintly related question about game difficulty that I was wondering about: have any of the complainers ever tried using custom AE mobs to create more difficulty? Like creating enemy groups with much scarier sorts of powers (presumably a lot more buff/debuff/control and damage type diversity)?

I have not. But then again, I have never been a fan of AE, I prefer the original content.

[DR_Mechano]

29 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

I have not. But then again, I have never been a fan of AE, I prefer the original content.

There are specific arcs made to challenge people, the 801 series of arcs is meant to be a challenge to even a full team of Incarnates for example.

[Solarverse]

1 minute ago, DR_Mechano said:

There are specific arcs made to challenge people, the 801 series of arcs is meant to be a challenge to even a full team of Incarnates for example.

Any badges or rewards associated with it?

[Sif]

2 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Any badges or rewards associated with it?

The same as 99% of content in the game 😄

[DR_Mechano]

16 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Any badges or rewards associated with it?

The rewards are, as Sif mentions, just the same as everything else in the game, XP and Inf. 95% of content does not award badges or give major rewards. You do it because you can. Though both myself and you have argued about 'self-imposed challenges as content' until we were both blue in the face and generally decided that what you wanted and what I wanted were two different things

[Solarverse]

45 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

The rewards are, as Sif mentions, just the same as everything else in the game, XP and Inf. 95% of content does not award badges or give major rewards. You do it because you can. Though both myself and you have argued about 'self-imposed challenges as content' until we were both blue in the face and generally decided that what you wanted and what I wanted were two different things

Yeah, I have argued with a lotof fellow forumites. I can argue with the best of them. 😄

[arcane]

2 hours ago, Solarverse said:

I have not. But then again, I have never been a fan of AE, I prefer the original content.

I haven't either, but I imagine that the people that want the game to be harder should actually try some of the harder content options before having their requests taken seriously.

[Galaxy Brain]

Just now, arcaneholocaust said:

I haven't either, but I imagine that the people that want the game to be harder should actually try some of the harder content options before having their requests taken seriously.

Unfortunately, AE has no real "controls" in terms of what to throw at players. You can certainly make really tough mobs, but on the flipside you can make stupid-tough encounters that are just number checks.

[arcane]

Another relevant question is whether or not the complainers are availing themselves of all of the different challenge settings in Ouroboros to make regular content harder.