The Mastermind Wishlist: Completed, Uncut, and En Masse

[Monos King]

3 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

ALso, every single At has combos that are good, middling and bad. Its like saying that cause an Emp/Arc fender has crappy damage, the 2 ATOs should be folded into the AT.

Yes, but I highlighted the difference when I said "disproportionately bad" and "crippled compared to even other MMs".

 

I'm not sure I can actually explain it in greater depth than that, I think you'll just have to take the majorities word on this one if you haven't seen personally the scenarios where these complaints arise so often. Otherwise I think we just can't see eye to eye here, which is fine, because that was just a topic for thought suggestion anyway. There's still a lot of other proposals here I think we both can push for.

[Monos King]

@Razor Cure Actually, let me give it one more shot.

An emp/arc defender isn't suppose to do damage. It's role isn't inhibited by that shortcoming, but IOs can circumvent it.

 

A EM brute can do damage outside of high recharge, it's role as tank and damaged isn't hindered by the shortcoming, but IOs can circumvent it.

 

A thugs/poison MM is supposed to support and do things with pets. But it's pets die instantly without auras. So it can't. 

 

A demons/emp is supposed to do the same. But it's pets will die swiftly without auras. So it can't.

 

The reason this is an overlying MM issue and not a power specific one is due to the fact the disadvantages are disproportionate. Thugs is *supposed* to have low res, that itself isn't an issue because it trades low defenses for high damage, but even the high res pets will die very quickly without added resistance and defense buffs. Sets that can provide this will prosper, and dodge innate weaknesses, so the compatibility is actually just disproportionate advantage. 

 

ALL MMs need auras. Especially at lower levels or high content, exempt only to instances of therm, cold, and maybe dark depending on the primary. Even force field and sonic will get shredded at the +4 or x6 or beyond level because of the squishiness of pets. They can barely team. To compete with those generally effective secondaries at all, auras are necessary for every single MM, or their role as support/damage ATs is quickly jeopardized. Because the pets are vaporized.

[Twintania]

12 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

So you arent counting the other uniques..meaning MMs have this totally AWFUL tax of..TWo whole slots. In order to beef up pets. Wow, 2 slots, that is a harsh tax allright...

And here is where the comparisons fly over your head. I was specifically comparing ATOs to ATOs, since you sat there and compared the SIX aura IOs to TWO ATOs. Tell me of any other AT that practically *needs* to burn 4 slots just to keep their base damage going. Maybe if you are just sitting at +1 it's not as much of an issue, but minions as a whole do tend to go squish, especially if you do not have something that protects them naturally.

 

These 4 IOs are a tax NO OTHER AT HAS. You cannot sit there and tell me the other ATs require anything like them to run at anything remotely considered an optimal level. Remember, every pet dead is less damage the MM does, and without any MMs aren't much more than a poorly tuned defender. MMs need their minions to work properly, and basically locking 6 slots into IOs that, with one full exception and one partially exception (Recharge Reduction is minimally useful on the main MM minions, since they shouldn't be dying so fast you need it. Only the 3 true Recharge Pets would find it useful), do nothing to change the stats on the powers listed in. THAT IS A TAX ON YOUR SLOTS.

[Monos King]

Regardless of the reception to aura changes, there are a lot of other changes that would be effective at solving problems.

 

I'm curious as to how people felt about giving Lich containment and Self Soul Extraction.

[kelika2]

Just give me +2 to all pet levels and the ability to slot ATOs into personal attacks

 

its a quick and dirty fix

[Galaxy Brain]

Replace one of the Genin's powers with the blinding powder from /Ninja Training

 

Give all ninjas Ninja Run dammit

[Soulstinger]

I main Necro and I would agree the Lich could benefit from something that stands out, rather than basically just CC.

 

I love the idea of it having Soul Extraction; but I also think Soul Extraction itself needs a bit of a tweak as it is. There were suggestions of being able to use it on living (lol) henchmen 

[Emperor Cole]

40 minutes ago, Soulstinger said:

I main Necro and I would agree the Lich could benefit from something that stands out, rather than basically just CC.

 

I love the idea of it having Soul Extraction; but I also think Soul Extraction itself needs a bit of a tweak as it is. There were suggestions of being able to use it on living (lol) henchmen 

I like that idea, I think that another interesting idea would be that Soul Extraction could work on fallen enemies as well. 

[Emperor Cole]

Lich should definetely have containment. I used necro for a while on one of my (many) alts. The lich, while cool, doesn't do that much damage. Maybe I just haven't added enough to it but I really like the double damage contaiment inherent idea.

 

[kheldy1004]

Lich is underperforming as a t3 pet. Only thing special in lich's arsenal is Fearsome Stare because Oni and Demon Prince got superior ST hold. Rest of lich's moves are not worth speaking of. 

Lich should make real damage especially in AoE because Necro is the worst AoE set in MM's primary. Replacing Torrent with Umbral Torrent could be much helpful for him. SL and LD used by Necro pets, also should have same damage scale as player's 

Edited March 17, 2020 by kheldy1004

[Soulstinger]

Necro's damage is carried primarily from the Grave Knights. I wouldn't disagree with zombies getting some small damage boost as well, but if just discussing the Lich; containment sounds perfect - adding a tie-in that boosts it's damage if mobs are CC'd - but it also would need a small damage boost in and of itself in order for containment to really mean anything.

[kelika2]

Not the place but:

Lich slotting: 1 acc/mez hami, 2 dmg/mez hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end any pet IO, and 1 golgi.  the 6th slot you can do whatever you want.

Its level + supremacy aura should have it landing attacks reliably

the mez hamis will max out ALL of its CC effects.  fear, immob, hold, etc

the golgi will reduce its end spending and give a little kick to its life drain attack

 

and you may not notice it, its damage is not that bad.  its crap for a tier3 but it still does damage.

[shadowrex]

Posting from another thread:

 

I wanted to recap some great discussion from this thread as well as add some additional suggestions

 

General:

• Bump up all pets by 2 levels
• Henchmen only team teleport or flight. 
  • Alternative:  Allow the toggle for [Team Teleport]/[Group Flight] in the options window, not Null the Gull.  Allow>Consent Window>Block
  • Instant cast “assemble the team” ability that is henchmen targeted only. 
• All knockbacks changed to knockdowns (I'm assuming this is the same as OP changing magnitude to 0.67)
• All personal attacks base damage boosted, endurance costs and recharges tweaked. This helps MMs with less active secondaries at least have usable primary skills
• Global pet speed increase
• Bodyguard on whenever Defensive stance is on
  • Can bodyguard always be on as part of the MM’s passive (e.g. all damage the MM receives is split between any henchmen within X’)? 
•  Increase the base HP / Regen of pets to help scale vs higher end content. 
• When summoning pets, provide a bigger window of intangibility or a massive absorb shield to help with bigger fights where re-summoning happens often.

Ninjas:

• General
  • Personal attacks changed to shuriken throwing similar to Genins attacks that are minor, moderate, and an AOE.
  • Whenever pets cast a "rain" ability, it is anchored to the target it used it on. When the target dies, it goes away.  
    • In this case: Caltrops and Rain of Fire
  • Add in /Martial Assault and /Ninja (Blinding Powder?) abilities to the pets to update their offense a bit. 
  • Smoke Flash should grant defensive stats to the selected Ninja on top of offense. Make it a TAoE as well for other nearby ninja to benefit.
  • Give the personal Archery Attacks something special... right now they're the only MM attacks with no secondary effects.
  • Add "Exploding Shuriken" from Weapon Mastery somewhere?
• Jounin:  
  • Give them dart burst from Widows.  This fufills the -slow mechanic while still remaining thematic and still giving them AOE damage 
• Oni: 
  • Replace rain of fire with Fire ball/fire sword circle 
  • Range increase on breath of fire
  • Give some thermal radiation abilities (warmth? Maybe the thermal shields which would be henchman and MM targeted only similar to protector bot shields)
  • Total Revamp: Change into Shogun.  Dual Blades, wider range PBAoE attacks, etc
• Genin: 
  • Add dragon's tail at level 6.  
  • Global -endurance cost adjustments

Mercenaries:

• General
  • Updated passive for each henchmen - Body Armor + "Guerrilla Tactics" that add both increased resistance and some positional defenses
    • Alternative or additional since they are highly trained soldiers: Physical Perfection/Superior Conditioning with +regen and +recovery
  • Give all henchmen "Life Support System" from the unimplemented Utility belt power pool
  • Add "Targeting Drone" from Weapon Mastery somewhere?
• Serum: 
  • Serum is in contention for one of the worst powers in CoX. The effects are essentially only good for the commando who has his own problems, and then it is not up nearly often enough + has a devastating crash. 
  • No crash, effects all pets, reduced effectiveness
  • Replace with a 7th pet to add space for DEF and RES IOs
    • Gun Drone
    • "Field Specialist" with current layout of the Medic. This new medic can administer a Serum that boosts the defense, resist, stamina, and damage of allies for a short while and then costs a small amount of endurance afterwards (watered down old serum, but is applied much more often) Potential summons for the Specialist: “Gun Drone” for added offense and covering fire “force field generator” for defense, or Acid Mortar for -res/def
  • Replace with “swap ammo” to change henchmen’s damage type from the highly resisted lethal. Similar to Dual Pistols (incendiary, cryo, toxic)
  • Replace with an "all in one" leadership toggle (maneuvers, tactics, assault) that only effects henchmen 
• M30: 
  • Replace with a cone-burst
• Soldiers:
  • Replace the medic and revamp soldiers to be more like soldiers of arachnos
    • Burst/bayonet base attack
    • Level 6 upgrade: Slug/mini-cone auto/frag grenade
    • Level 32 upgrade: Full auto, venom grenade
  • If the medic stays:
    • Remove Medicine Power pool skills and give them a medi-grenade as a base ability.  Recolor the poison from various venom grenades to be brighter/or blue.  Heal over time
    • Additional suggestions instead of having custom skills: 
      • Poison skills such as alkaloid 
      • Pain domination (enforce morale? Et al. may be too off theme) 
      • Change the medicine powers to have increased range, and instant cast times similar to protector bots heal
      • Add “suppressive fire” from Dual Pistols, “beanbag” from Assault Rifle, or “taser” from Devices as a stun 
• Spec-Ops:
  • Upgrade Web grenade to wide are web grenade, or toxic area web grenade with  DoT, AoE, and -RES (could be a part of either the lvl 6 or 32 upgrades)
  • Add Surveillance from “Bane Spider Training” to add -RES and -DEF and update Stealth to “Cloaking Device” for theme
  • Add damage to Gas Grenade, like the gas turrets in the villain level 25 SF
  • Add a mini-cone burst for AOE
  • Add Leadership abilities like Thugs LTs: 
    • Maneuvers(base)    
    • Assault(6)
    • Tactics(32)
  • Recharge tweaks on crowd control abilities
• Commando:
  • Range increase (flamethrower, et al.)
  • Instant snipe/LRM
  • Recharge tweaks. For example, the Assault Bots recharge for missiles is 16 seconds and the Commandos Rocket Launcher is 4 minutes
  • Missile leaves a burning field/patch with -regen or ADD “incendiary grenade” AOE fire damage and -regen at lvl 32.
  • Could also ADD “Ignite” from the assault rifle powerset
  • Lvl 6 or 32 upgrade gives Commando “incendiary ammo” from dual pistols and causes -regen and minor DOT

Necromancy:

• General
  • Life drain replaced with Dark Obliteration/a dark AOE attack
  • Overall damage boost to pets
  • Give all pets a minor "cloak of fear" similar to dark armor
• Zombies:
  • Change the zombie model. 
    • Reason why:  if the current zombies need to drop an inch or two they have this landing animation that takes a few seconds.  Caves, tunnels and stairs stall tier 1’s super hard.  
  • Wider cones for vomits 
  • Add another base attack, Bite.
  • Add gloom/dark blast or lower the cooldown of lifedrain
  • Maybe revamp them into "Savage Melee" type scrappers 
• Grave Knights:
  • Ditch the ranged attacks.  
  • Replace Dark Blast(base) with Throw Scrap.  Use the Throw Knives animation so they keep their weapon out.  
  • Remove weapon draw
  • Replace gloom/drain life with Slice and Whirling Sword
  • Enable critical modifier in PvP
• Lich:
  • CC abilities are unreliable.  
  • Add nightfall and dark obliteration/AOE
• Soul Extraction:
  • Usable on enemies, like Warshades.   

Robotics, demons, and thugs seem to be in a relatively good place so I won't harp on them although some folks above have added some minor changes. The general consensus for beasts is a lot of folks don't know enough about them, me included.

[Monos King]

3 hours ago, shadowrex said:

• • Level 32 upgrade: Full auto, venom grenade
• If the medic stays:
  • Remove Medicine Power pool skills and give them a medi-grenade as a base ability.  Recolor the poison from various venom grenades to be brighter/or blue.  Heal over time
  • Additional suggestions instead of having custom skills: 
    • Poison skills such as alkaloid 
    • Pain domination (enforce morale? Et al. may be too off theme) 
    • Change the medicine powers to have increased range, and instant cast times similar to protector bots heal
    • Add “suppressive fire” from Dual Pistols, “beanbag” from Assault Rifle, or “taser” from Devices as a stun 

I really like the idea of the additional pet for mercs, while I like improved serums as well.

 

A lot of the merc suggestions seem like they would actually over-compensate for its weaknesses though, and make them pretty overpowered. It should be worth noting that I'm all for being extremely powerful, but it's probably a bit too much if more than two of those suggestions were implemented for mercs.

 

I agree with letting passive mode split damage, but I'm fine with the current state of defensive mode, the rewards of being in defensive mode make up for the usual lack of concentrated damage. Having damage split along with "attack my target" for instance is too effective in a few instances (for instance fighting another MM), and kind of mitigates the purpose of those that use the hide in the back and let pets run in tactic, as just camping in defensive mode would always be the ideal alternative. It also makes sense, you can't really be in defensive when your ordering everyone to concentrate on damaging one person. It's a fine risk-reward for the archetype IMO.

[Doc_Scorpion]

8 hours ago, shadowrex said:

Bump up all pets by 2 levels

2 levels as compared to...  what?

[shadowrex]

5 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

2 levels as compared to...  what?

Their current summoning level. At level 50 tier 1s spawn at lvl 48, tier 2s at 49, and tier 3 at 50. So they would then spawn at 50, 51 and 52 respectively.

[Doc_Scorpion]

2 hours ago, shadowrex said:

Their current summoning level. At level 50 tier 1s spawn at lvl 48, tier 2s at 49, and tier 3 at 50. So they would then spawn at 50, 51 and 52 respectively.

Spawning at a higher level than the MM?  Yeah, no.

[shadowrex]

3 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Spawning at a higher level than the MM?  Yeah, no.

So then summon them all at 50. Tier 1s being 5-6 levels below in +4 content is silly.

[Monos King]

1 minute ago, shadowrex said:

So then summon them all at 50. Tier 1s being 5-6 levels below in +4 content is silly.

Luckily, that is one of the proposals here we've been pushing for!

[Monos King]

On 3/12/2020 at 6:33 PM, Monos King said:

Beast Mastery

• Functionally Perfect

I'd like to follow this statement with that while I do think the beasts do single target damage well, they should probably use some of their war-cry buffs within combat.

 

Spit Suggestion: heavily reduce damage buff on one of the roars and give it a "bleed" or "lethal wound" proc that functions sort of like  Frost Bite but with a greater damage.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Monos King

[Vilhelm]

Some QoL improvements...

 

1. Could pet powers become toggles that while active re-summon lost pets?  Give it a nasty endurance cost, but the act of re-summoning is bothersome.  If there is a "downtime" of thirty seconds to a minute this keeps the sting in losing pets during combat.  

2. Can the two pet buffs become toggles that constantly re-apply their effect?  Re-applying the buffs to re-summoned pets is annoying.  I don't even think that this is a huge balance issue, just something to make playing as a mastermind less tedious.   

[WindDemon21]

On 3/20/2020 at 2:01 PM, Vilhelm said:

Some QoL improvements...

 

1. Could pet powers become toggles that while active re-summon lost pets?  Give it a nasty endurance cost, but the act of re-summoning is bothersome.  If there is a "downtime" of thirty seconds to a minute this keeps the sting in losing pets during combat.  

2. Can the two pet buffs become toggles that constantly re-apply their effect?  Re-applying the buffs to re-summoned pets is annoying.  I don't even think that this is a huge balance issue, just something to make playing as a mastermind less tedious.   

There has been since day one, and even with an adjustment made, an issue with the mastermind training powers. Even with it's current iteration, it is extremely cumbersome to have to try to buff up the pets after you cast them especially in a battle. One server has implemented that the training powers are automatically applied via an auto buff that procs every few seconds around the caster like supremacy.

 

This should be how those powers always should have been and should be now. I would however take it further than that, since level progression on a MM is fairly tragic, since most aren't good until those level 32 train powers anyway. I would propose that those skills already be part of the pet skills for all the train powers, and move the lieutenant pets to level 18 and the boss pet to 32. Then at 12 and 26 where the training powers used to be put skill unique/mm powers there, that are also skippable, and also good with 1 slot or take the place of an earlier attack power that is up to the user to decide. So for example RoTP for demons at 26, soul transfer for necro at 26 etc (and if rez is in the epic  change it for something else)

 

Then for the level 12 power, make it another attack to fit each set. So tenebrous tentacles for necro etc. a pbaoe whip for demons etc. This way those training powers which really shouldn't even be a thing are incorporated into the pets automatically without overpowering them at the lower levels, and opens up power picks without requiring any extra slots that need to be taken on tight builds. Considering how MM class was supposed to be the "tanks" of villain side, I would even see level 12 being an aoe taunt power as a MM.

 

I understand this could take some time to code properly, so in the interim, at the very least they need to make those training powers pbaoe and greatly reduce the endurance so you don't have to target the pet, however since that one server already made them auto, they could at least port over their coding to do that.

 

 

 

 

I would also like to state how i'm not a fan of having those ato procs being in supremacy. For MMs which are already tough enough to slot that would make a mandatory 2-3 slots for each defense and resist for every MM build. And having those ato procs scale means that they wouldn't be as effective at lower levels either. What I could also see for the level 12 power would possibly be like the bio forms. Offensive, defensive, efficient. Where each mode would boost the damage/to hit, defense/resist, regen/recovery of you/pets.

 

Also on a side note for necro which is one of my mains, is that they would be better off with tenebrous tentacles than dark obliteration. And please don't take the life drain from the set or grave knights, it's what makes necro unique and is useful for you and your pets survival.

 

And from what was mentioned about their levels as well, they should ALL be the same level as you, that is just silly that they aren't.

Edited March 26, 2020 by WindDemon21

[Monos King]

On 3/20/2020 at 11:01 AM, Vilhelm said:

Some QoL improvements...

 

1. Could pet powers become toggles that while active re-summon lost pets?  Give it a nasty endurance cost, but the act of re-summoning is bothersome.  If there is a "downtime" of thirty seconds to a minute this keeps the sting in losing pets during combat.  

2. Can the two pet buffs become toggles that constantly re-apply their effect?  Re-applying the buffs to re-summoned pets is annoying.  I don't even think that this is a huge balance issue, just something to make playing as a mastermind less tedious.   

Can't say I'm in favor of those changes, I like the involvement of MMs. Also it would kind of just be removing one of the inherent trade-offs of the set, it's kind of like having all of a defenders buffs be automatic because it's tedious to do that and attack debuff as well. It's just apart of the archetype, I'd rather get necessary hard buffs and IO compatibility improvements.

 

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

would make a mandatory 2-3 slots

They wouldn't be enhanceable in Supremacy. They would just be present, in the same way the dmg and to hit buffs are. Low levels very rarely even have access to the auras anyway, so it should just be generally more effective. There wouldn't be any need to waste slots for the auras, or money/merits.

They would, however, be enhanceable when put into the equip/training powers, which would hopefully come with new IOs like the ones I had proposed. I'm more fond of this idea than the built into supremacy idea now.

[M3z]

high end pve, unless you are just capped def/res MMs are trash

 

in pvp zones, MMs big time trash

in arena 1v1, big time trash

8v8s, unless you have speedboost on pets MMs are trash, even with SB though, mediocre

 

AT needs help even though for some reason everyone disagrees lol (not in this thread but more in general)

Edited March 26, 2020 by M3z

[WindDemon21]

11 hours ago, Monos King said:

They wouldn't be enhanceable in Supremacy. They would just be present, in the same way the dmg and to hit buffs are. Low levels very rarely even have access to the auras anyway, so it should just be generally more effective. There wouldn't be any need to waste slots for the auras, or money/merits.

They would, however, be enhanceable when put into the equip/training powers, which would hopefully come with new IOs like the ones I had proposed. I'm more fond of this idea than the built into supremacy idea now.

Thus becoming the mandatory 2-3 slits for each def/ res stat like I mentioned. No thanks.