What primaries benefit the most from scourge?

[Hjarki]

15 hours ago, Frosticus said:

What problem?

 

A corr built the same as the defender ends up doing similar damage solo* (more vs EB's +), while being less survivable (corrs do get a smidgen more base hp though), but does WAY more damage under team buffs because of the higher damage cap, scourge and the same procs.

The 'problem' is that you really have to thread the needle to reach a point where the Corruptor out-performs the Defender. Solo - or split off in small sub-groups - the Defender version of a build tends to do equivalent or slightly more damage with far better defenses. In League, the superior debuffs of the Defender matter far more than the +30% or so damage advantage the Corruptor might enjoy from Scourge/base damage/+damage cap.

15 hours ago, Frosticus said:

That said, I've always felt (and said) that corrs should have stronger offensive buffs that defenders. Aim (assault etc) should be stronger on corrs, while defensive buffs (shields, weave maneuvers, etc) should be stronger on defenders.  It would eliminate much of the perceived issue of "offender" builds encroaching on corruptor damage (while solo). 

Philosophically, this might make sense. In practice, it would mean that Corruptors get all the good stuff and Defenders get all the crappy stuff.

 

All of the support set archetypes suffer from the fact that very little 'support' is actually necessary - or desirable. Support sets end up being just a variant on armor sets for most purposes.

 

This is really at odds with the original vision for the game. You're not supposed to have players solo'ing +4/x8. You're not supposed to be at defense cap while solo unless you've got Super Reflexes or some other similar set. You're not supposed to be at resist cap while solo unless you're a Tanker with a resist-based set against your special resist (i.e. Fire for Fire, Energy for Electric, etc.). There's supposed to be a lot of room to improve anyone's abilities.

 

A similar problem occurs with Control sets, where there's no real need for actual 'control'. Long gone are the days where you'd bring two Controllers and have them alternate mass Holds. The modern Controller is just exploiting the secondary features of their set to maximize their own personal damage and probably doesn't even take their Mass Hold (much less slot their powers for Control duration unless it gives them great set bonuses).

[Uun]

17 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

The 'problem' is that you really have to thread the needle to reach a point where the Corruptor out-performs the Defender. Solo - or split off in small sub-groups - the Defender version of a build tends to do equivalent or slightly more damage with far better defenses. In League, the superior debuffs of the Defender matter far more than the +30% or so damage advantage the Corruptor might enjoy from Scourge/base damage/+damage cap.

Not my experience. I generally don't solo and prefer running trials and TFs. While debuffs are nice if you're running low-level content, once you get to high-level content at +4/x8, teams are crushing foes so fast that there's barely time to cast debuffs. 

[Hjarki]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

Not my experience. I generally don't solo and prefer running trials and TFs. While debuffs are nice if you're running low-level content, once you get to high-level content at +4/x8, teams are crushing foes so fast that there's barely time to cast debuffs. 

If you're just churning through trash, you normally skip the debuffs. However, Corruptors aren't particularly good at churning through trash. Scourge is rarely meaningful when you're alpha striking most enemies from 100%. A higher +damage cap isn't meaningful when you can't even reach the Defender's +damage cap (much less the Corruptor's) - and what +damage buffs you do have are better on the Defender.

 

Where the debuffs matter is on the AV/GM - and here even minor differences create a massive disparity. The difference between Freezing Rain on a Defender and Corruptor is only 5%. But when you've got it double stacked and a team of 8 is attacking the AV/GM, that minor difference ends up being 50% of the average damage of a single team member - a far greater disparity that even the idealized difference in personal damage between a Corruptor and Defender.

 

If you break down all the possible power set combinations and situations you'll find yourself in at 50, probably 95%+ favor the Defender version over the Corruptor version.

[Without_Pause]

On 3/23/2020 at 4:26 PM, Hjarki said:

However, this is only basic damage - it doesn't include procs. Consider a power like Ice Bolt. It does 36.15 damage. Each basic proc you slot into it will average 12.56 damage. With 4 procs, that would be 36.15 from basic damage and 50 from procs.

With four procs that defender isn't getting the same set bonuses a corr would.

[Hjarki]

33 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

With four procs that defender isn't getting the same set bonuses a corr would.

In the example you're citing I was giving both Defender and Corruptor the same proc bonuses.

 

There's no simple way to demonstrate the "build flexibility" concept without go through the processes of making two builds according to the same constraints. Even that requires a bit of subjectivity. However, consider that using a relatively light defense set like Storm Summoning or Cold Domination alongside standard pool powers/slotting, the Defender version will probably have +5% Defense and +15% S/L Resist. Given that both have already grabbed the sets with the massive bonuses, our Corruptor is left trying to cobble together +5% defense from sets like extraneous Blessing of the Zephyr or adding extra slots for Titanium Coating. To actually bridge that gap for Ranged Defense alone would likely require 6 - 10 extra slots in the Corruptor version of the build.

 

The only place to get those 6 - 10 extra slots is by subtracting procs out of the powers and trying for set bonuses with offensive powers - which starts to limit their effectiveness as attacks.

 

Couple that with the fact that the major advantages of the Corruptors - higher +damage cap and Scourge - don't actually provide much (if any benefit) in most game, the superior damage amplification of Defenders and you end up at the "Defender versions of the build out-damage Corruptor versions of the build" rule.

 

 

[Frosticus]

19 hours ago, Hjarki said:

 

Couple that with the fact that the major advantages of the Corruptors - higher +damage cap and Scourge - don't actually provide much (if any benefit) in most game, the superior damage amplification of Defenders and you end up at the "Defender versions of the build out-damage Corruptor versions of the build" rule.

 

 

We must be playing a different game. My defender bumps into their damage cap very often. Solo. Teams frequently bring nothing to me in terms of boosting my own output. My corrs thrive in teams. I help them almost as much as a defender and I benefit from many types of buffs. 

 

 

Its on the forums where you get expert advice that high (softcapped) def is required to excel.

 

my poison/fire has 28.6% ranged and less than 15% to most things. the inverse (corrupter) would have 26.3% ranged. Big whoop.

The build has done solo motif without issue or gimmicks. And I can guarantee the corr would do it faster because of so many high hp objectives.

 

None of my corrs or defs are out there 1 shotting spawns at anything higher than +2, so scourge can and does offer meaningful damage relative to my defender.

 

Regarding storm; every storm I've played basically requires ageless for recovery. They dont need it for the recharge tho because of so much ffb proc firing. Not a storm corrupter though. They can often use their ATO to  help bypass the extreme endurance toll. Which opens up barrier, rebirth, or clarion and completely destroys whatever "build flexibility " advantage the defender had in the 45+ game.

 

Some builds are a bit better for defenders, some are a bit better for corrs. I think once they finish fixing the psuedo pets we'll see that corrs need a  tiny bit more scourge range.

 

 

 

 

[Uun]

14 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

Regarding storm; every storm I've played basically requires ageless for recovery. They dont need it for the recharge tho because of so much ffb proc firing. Not a storm corrupter though. They can often use their ATO to  help bypass the extreme endurance toll. Which opens up barrier, rebirth, or clarion and completely destroys whatever "build flexibility " advantage the defender had in the 45+ game.

Not to hijack the thread, but my grav/storm troller has support hybrid, which provides a 10% endurance discount, and clarion destiny.

[Frosticus]

3 hours ago, Uun said:

Not to hijack the thread, but my grav/storm troller has support hybrid, which provides a 10% endurance discount, and clarion destiny.

If that works for you then that is a good choice. 

 

many storm builds loaded with procs and abusing ffb can burn upwards of 8 end/sec, so a 10% discount may not be enough in those situations.

 

my storm mm proc build can tank endurance thru cardiac and ageless haha. But mm's secondaries are penalized (hence cardiac 45% end reduction to offset that)

 

I'm a big fan of melee hybrid, rune of protection and barrier. cycled - that gives me a lot of uptime on my mez protection and makes me super tough all the time. 

[r0y]

On 3/23/2020 at 1:24 PM, Darkir said:

DP/Kin:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Corruptor
Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Dual Wield -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(3), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 1: Transfusion -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(7), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(9), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), NmnCnv-Heal(11), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(11)
Level 2: Empty Clips -- SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrBls-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), FrcFdb-Rechg%(15)
Level 4: Siphon Power -- Acc-I(A)
Level 6: Swap Ammo 
Level 8: Bullet Rain -- SprScrBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprScrBls-Rchg/+End(25), FrcFdb-Rechg%(27)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- Acc-I(A)
Level 12: Boxing -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx(17), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(27), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), TchofDth-Dam%(43)
Level 14: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(29), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), GldArm-3defTpProc(31)
Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(23)
Level 18: Executioner's Shot -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(19), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 20: Speed Boost -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(46)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(39), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(40), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), RedFrt-Def(43), RedFrt-EndRdx(43)
Level 24: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(37), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(39), GssSynFr--Build%(39)
Level 26: Piercing Rounds -- SprMlcoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMlcoft-Dmg/Rchg(31), SprMlcoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SprMlcoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprMlcoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprMlcoft-Rchg/Dmg%(42)
Level 28: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(33)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Hail of Bullets -- SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(36), FrcFdb-Rechg%(36)
Level 35: Transference -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 38: Fulcrum Shift -- Acc-I(A)
Level 41: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(45), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(45), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(46)
Level 44: Increase Density -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(46), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(48), UnbGrd-Max HP%(50)
Level 47: Repel -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(48)
Level 49: Inertial Reduction -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(48), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(50)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Scourge 
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(13)
Level 6: Chemical Ammunition 
Level 6: Cryo Ammunition 
Level 6: Incendiary Ammunition 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
Level 0: Marshal 
Level 0: Invader 
Level 0: High Pain Threshold 
Level 0: Born In Battle 
Level 1: Quick Form 
------------

 

 

I don't mean to Thread-Jack this, but I thought I'd talk about over-doing the recharge proc thing.  I see it a lot in many builds, so many people are out for "proc monsters" and such.  While there are certain powers on certain sets that absolutely go from "meh" to "nice" (e.g. poison trap on poison set, not traps) many powers can be GIMPED by "proc'ing" them out.

 

Not meaning to pick on @Darkir or anything, but I thought his DP/Kin build was a perfect example of why one may wish to reconsider "proc'ing" out a build; and on two fronts.  One, /kin really does not need +recharge all that much; and second, this is a great example of gimping a build because one is shooting for the wrong thing, IMO.

 

WRT the build posted/quoted above:

I think you could do a LOT better than this build.  You seem to want to proc it up, but it's a fool's errand in this case.  For DP/Kin, what are you +Recharging for?  Basically Hail of Bullets.  Yes, yes, having more recharge is fine for everything, but it's the "long recharging powers" that one really needs to keep in mind when one wishes to gimp their build to squeeze out a few more seconds.

 

Your build's snapshot (for those who do not wish to d/l open it up):

While your defenses are OK and resists are not bad, you've basically gimped your build to do it!  1-slotted Fulcrum and Transference?  Dual Pistols shines with AoE (spamming Empty Clips (Cone) and Bullet Rain (TAoE) with Hail of Bullets (nuke/PBAoE) whenever ideal.  Your Bullet Rain is 49% damage boosted, and the cone is only 89%.  Ouch.  Also, I rarely see folks take Piercing Rounds, as it is a speed bump to the flow with it's 2½ second activation/rooting time.

 

Obviously, if you enjoy it, great.  I just thought I'd warn people who might be looking for builds that this is not an ideal solution to a DP/Kin corrupter.  And it would be crappy of me to criticize without putting up my own version of this combo, so here it is:

I could probably squeeze out the last 3% defense to S/L/E, but I didn't want to put too much time into this.  It's only here to show an alternative way of building a DP/Kin corrupter.  Like your build, I used the 50+5 for single acc's/end reduction.  But for the 2-slotted recharge powers (Hasten & the Siphons) I used 50+4 (x2), as there is really no benefit from +5x2 vs. +4x2.  Heck, it could probably be argued to even do +4's...  Also, I left the INFO window in both screenshots (yours & mine) on Hail of Bullets specifically.  I toggled both builds toggle the same to get a real apples-to-apples comparison.  Note the details.  This is the power that benefits the most from +Recharge.  I do not feel I "gimped" my build, but I have a 29s recharge (also, my hasten is 8s off perma - no incarnate powers toggled/used in either screenshot) versus your 33.5s.  Two things to think about here:  One, that's only a 4½ second difference.  Not "real world" significant on a ±30-second power (about 15%); next, I am not using any +rech procs, I fully slotted the powers so they perform better consistently and without any reliance on an RNG for procs that is not really adding anything.

 

So while my build has much less resistance (truth be told, I'll likely not even have Tough toggled, but I did for comparison reasons here), it makes up for it with higher defense, better accuracy, far more damage, and better recharge...  In short, it will play much smoother, and hit harder, and hit more often.

 

My build is on the LEFT, your build is on the RIGHT.  Granted, maybe the three +rech(2ppm) procs go off twice every minute for a total of 30s of 100% recharge speed.  Again I ask:  why?  What does this build have that needs so much recharge?  Kinetics is one of those sets that really does not need +Recharge, thanks to siphon speed and the low recharge of it's powers (they're all perma or stacking already).  Use Siphon Speed.  Your build has a 25s recharge (not considering procs), mine is 17s - that's a full 8 seconds, so you can stack it more easily for 20%+20% recharge (not to mention speed for you, debuff for enemy).  Also note:  Higher health = ghetto Damage Resistance.  Also note:  Kinetics NEEDS to hit, so you want more +ToHit and +Acc so you're ONLY missing 5% of the time (mechanics).

 

Finally, here's the build for mids, so you can do the comparisons yourself if you want:

 

Spoiler

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Corruptor
Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Dual Wield -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(37), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 1: Transfusion -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(40), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(40), Prv-Heal/Rchg(40), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(42), Prv-Absorb%(43)
Level 2: Empty Clips -- OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg(A), OvrFrc-End/Rech(7), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End(7), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech(31), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(31), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(43)
Level 4: Siphon Power -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(5), RechRdx-I(5)
Level 6: Swap Ammo 
Level 8: Bullet Rain -- SprMlcoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMlcoft-Dmg/Rchg(9), SprMlcoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SprMlcoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprMlcoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprMlcoft-Rchg/Dmg%(13)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(11), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(15), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(15), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 16: Combat Jumping -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(17), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(17), Rct-ResDam%(46)
Level 18: Executioner's Shot -- Dvs-Acc/Dmg(A), Dvs-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Dvs-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Dvs-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 20: Speed Boost -- EffAdp-EndMod/EndRdx(A), EffAdp-EndMod(21)
Level 22: Increase Density -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23), UnbGrd-Max HP%(50)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(25), LucoftheG-Def(50)
Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 28: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(29), LucoftheG-Def(45)
Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Hail of Bullets -- SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrBls-Dmg/Rchg(33), SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SprScrBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprScrBls-Rchg/+End(34)
Level 35: Transference -- PrfShf-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A), PrfShf-Acc/Rchg(36), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(36), PrfShf-EndMod(36), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(46)
Level 38: Fulcrum Shift -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(42), LucoftheG-Def(50)
Level 44: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(45), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(45), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(46), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Build%(48)
Level 47: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Scourge 
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(3)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(3)
Level 6: Chemical Ammunition 
Level 6: Cryo Ammunition 
Level 6: Incendiary Ammunition 
------------

 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by r0y

[Darkir]

2 hours ago, r0y said:

While your defenses are OK and resists are not bad, you've basically gimped your build to do it!  1-slotted Fulcrum and Transference?  Dual Pistols shines with AoE (spamming Empty Clips (Cone) and Bullet Rain (TAoE) with Hail of Bullets (nuke/PBAoE) whenever ideal.  Your Bullet Rain is 49% damage boosted, and the cone is only 89%.  Ouch.  Also, I rarely see folks take Piercing Rounds, as it is a speed bump to the flow with it's 2½ second activation/rooting time.

The defenses in this build are softcapped to range and just .6% off the softcap for melee defense. Having ranged and melee defense softcapped is far superior to having typed defense softcapped. Your build will get hit by all melee attacks 7.8% of the time, energy attacks 7.3% of the time, negative attacks 20.7% of the time, 30.7% of the time for psionic, fire 27%, and cold 27% of the time. My build will be hit 5.5% by melee and 5% for almost everything else (there is the very rare pure typed but not positional attack and the rare AOE that is aoe and not melee or ranged flagged). Trust me, that is a very big difference in play and on paper. Softcapping positional defense actually provides far more "ease of play" than softcapping s/l/e defense.  Resistances are important too, if you want to do +4x8 solo (as I do with all my builds). 

 

The damage on bullet rain and every other power doesn't matter much because fulcrum shift is going to bring us to the cap regardless. It does not matter how much extra damage enhancements we put into our powers, our damage cannot go any further than +400% dmg buff (+500% total). The ability to cap your own damage feeds into why recharge is desirable for a kinetics user, there isn't much else we want. We have softcapped our defenses and our resistances are pretty good for a squishy, recharge is the only thing that will allow us to kill mobs faster. You want defenses and resistances too, but we have that mostly covered with our armor powers and softcapped ranged and melee defenses from power pools and set bonuses. 

 

3 hours ago, r0y said:

So while my build has much less resistance (truth be told, I'll likely not even have Tough toggled, but I did for comparison reasons here), it makes up for it with higher defense, better accuracy, far more damage, and better recharge...  In short, it will play much smoother, and hit harder, and hit more often.

Again, you don't actually have higher defenses because the build I posted is softcapped to ranged and melee attacks. The build I posted will play smoother because it is softcapped to every type of damage through positional defenses. The accuracy of all of the powers in the build is capped to +3s (95%) and you have over slotted for acc in your build with no benefit as you were already at the cap. You say far more damage, but any time we are going to be using AoEs we will get saturated fulcrum shifts and so our damage will be capped and cannot go any higher unless we toggle the assault radial hybrid. So both builds will hit just as hard because we cannot do more damage thanks to fulcrum shift. It will also not hit more often as this build allows for an almost constant uptime of the +100% FF recharge proc. 

 

3 hours ago, r0y said:

Also note:  Kinetics NEEDS to hit, so you want more +ToHit and +Acc so you're ONLY missing 5% of the time (mechanics).

Yeah, this build is at the acc cap for +3s.

 

3 hours ago, r0y said:

1-slotted Fulcrum and Transference?

Transference in this build heals 142 endurance which is a full endurance heal. It serves no benefit to go higher than 125 or so because no character can get more than that and even then 125 is only for people with body mastery and the like. 

 

3 hours ago, r0y said:

Your build has a 25s recharge (not considering procs), mine is 17s - that's a full 8 seconds, so you can stack it more easily for 20%+20% recharge (not to mention speed for you, debuff for enemy).

The entire point of this build is to consider the procs and understand that the FF recharge proc is on almost all the time when you are fighting mobs.

 

Did you see the softcapped melee and ranged defense in this build? Far from gimping it, I have provided it with layers of defense through positional def, resistance, and some knockdown mitigation through repel.

 

[Crysis]

On 3/26/2020 at 1:02 PM, Frosticus said:

We must be playing a different game. My defender bumps into their damage cap very often. Solo. Teams frequently bring nothing to me in terms of boosting my own output. My corrs thrive in teams. I help them almost as much as a defender and I benefit from many types of buffs. 

 

 

Its on the forums where you get expert advice that high (softcapped) def is required to excel.

 

my poison/fire has 28.6% ranged and less than 15% to most things. the inverse (corrupter) would have 26.3% ranged. Big whoop.

The build has done solo motif without issue or gimmicks. And I can guarantee the corr would do it faster because of so many high hp objectives.

 

None of my corrs or defs are out there 1 shotting spawns at anything higher than +2, so scourge can and does offer meaningful damage relative to my defender.

 

Regarding storm; every storm I've played basically requires ageless for recovery. They dont need it for the recharge tho because of so much ffb proc firing. Not a storm corrupter though. They can often use their ATO to  help bypass the extreme endurance toll. Which opens up barrier, rebirth, or clarion and completely destroys whatever "build flexibility " advantage the defender had in the 45+ game.

 

Some builds are a bit better for defenders, some are a bit better for corrs. I think once they finish fixing the psuedo pets we'll see that corrs need a  tiny bit more scourge range.

 

 

 

 

Gotta disagree totally.  Literally LOADED with +FF Procs on my Fire/Storm/Dark Corr I in now way had END under control until Ageless T3.  Even with Dark Consumption.  And the +Rech of Ageless is very much what’s needed for AV battles for double everything.

 

The Storm, she feeds on the blue.  Gasping for END for 50+ levels was worth it in the end (see what I just did there?)

Edited April 7, 2020 by Crysis

[Frosticus]

48 minutes ago, Crysis said:

Gotta disagree totally.  Literally LOADED with +FF Procs on my Fire/Storm/Dark Corr I in now way had END under control until Ageless T3.  Even with Dark Consumption.  And the +Rech of Ageless is very much what’s needed for AV battles for double everything.

 

The Storm, she feeds on the blue.  Gasping for END for 50+ levels was worth it in the end (see what I just did there?)

You likely didnt read the whole thread. 

At any rate another poster said they had their stormy's endurance under control with just support hybrid's 10% end discount. Everyone builds differently.

 

Ageless allows us to ignore most endurance concerns. No one would argue that. No one would argue that barrier on a storm is incredible too. 

 

Havent seen your build or how you play. Do you think you could make a build (using available tools) that ageless radial would be enough?

 

I used to rush t4 ageless core before even adding any level shifts it was that important to me. I take different approaches now. 

[Frostweaver]

@Darkir-

I know this is slightly off topic, but a lot of your ideas about dual pistols/Kinetics corrupters translate extraordinarily well into dual pistols blasters

 

You emphasis on positional, range/melee defense vs typed defense synergizes not only with an 'in the middle of combat' fulcrum shifted corrupter, but also to a blaster that, like the corrupter, is almost always in the middle of a grand melee.... because of the defense bonus provided by hail only affecting positional.

I applied your slotting ideas for the corrupter to my blaster, since dp/temporal actually has a surprising amount of slotting similarities to dp/kinetic, as well as cranking up the resistances with your slotting, and an emphasis on recharge procs instead of as much built-in recharge.

In addition I added in some incarnate melee radial with taunt to KEEP things in melee range where your DP attacks are most useful, which again, benefited only positional which you emphasized. Add in the emphasis on a higher-than-usual resistance on the three prime damage types, and it's a recipe for a blaster that can live through even getting focus-spitted on a +4 ITF run. The only thing I had to really alter was the endurance profile, because ITF profits more from ageless debuff resistance than the bonus from massive +rec. Even so, though, a 'cascade failure' in ITF with ageless and melee active only tend to leave you with almost-capped defenses, and even if it drops to 30% that 55% resist KEEPS you alive.

note that the defenses dip and soar a little. That's because hail's 15% lasts 5 seconds, and hail is available approximately every 15 seconds in hard combat, and melee radial has to be re triggered. there are VERY rare occasions when neither is available, dropping defense to the mid 30's, but those are easily handled.

And I have to say, on incarnate and farming content both your slotting and emphasis ideas have dramatically cranked up both my kill speed as well as dropped my faceplant ratio to virtually nothing. Especially on farm content, I went from +3/x8 (+4/x8 was possible, but tended to faceplant every couple of missions) to +4/x8 at speeds that would make a farming brute blush, with zero faceplants. and Dark Astoria/getting caught solo in a trial? smashing through without blinking, even when the raid forgot I was fighting 2-3 spawns at the same time.

So my most sincere gratitude for the ideas, and even more gratitude for reminding me that Ideas can come from odd sources... even a completely different AT board.

If you wish to see it, it's in spoiler tags below... and if people are uninterested because this is the corrupter board, feel free to skip it.

TL/DR spoiler- This is a blaster

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Robo the Kid: Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Secondary Power Set: Temporal Manipulation
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dual Wield -- SprDfnBrr-Rchg/+Status Protect(A), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprDfnBrr-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg(7)
Level 1: Time Wall -- TraoftheH-Immob/Acc(A)
Level 2: Empty Clips -- SprBlsWrt-Rchg/Dmg%(A), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SprBlsWrt-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg(11)
Level 4: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 6: Swap Ammo
Level 8: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Bullet Rain -- Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(19), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Rgn-Knock%(21), FrcFdb-Rechg%(21)
Level 12: Chronos -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(23), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(23), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(25), GssSynFr--Build%(25), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(27)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(17)
Level 16: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(29), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29), GldArm-3defTpProc(31)
Level 18: Executioner's Shot -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(31), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(33), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(33)
Level 20: Temporal Healing -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(33), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(34), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(34), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(34), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(36)
Level 22: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(36), Ksm-ToHit+(36), LucoftheG-Def(37)
Level 24: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(48)
Level 26: Time Stop -- SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(A), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg(37), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End(37), SprEnt-Acc/Hold(39), SprEnt-End/Rchg(50)
Level 28: Future Pain -- TchofDth-Dam%(A), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(39), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx(40), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(40)
Level 30: End of Time -- SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 32: Hail of Bullets -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Arm-Acc/Rchg(43), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(45), FrcFdb-Rechg%(45)
Level 35: Time Shift -- SphIns-Acc/ToHitDeb(A), SphIns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SphIns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SphIns-ToHitDeb(46), SphIns-Acc/Rchg(48)
Level 38: Time Lord -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 41: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(50), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(50)
Level 44: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(13), PwrTrns-EndMod(15), PwrTrns-+Heal(15)
Level 6: Chemical Ammunition
Level 6: Cryo Ammunition
Level 6: Incendiary Ammunition
Level 50: Void Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Seers Radial Superior Ally
Level 1: Quick Form
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
Level 50: Melee Radial Embodiment
Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany
------------

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Frostweaver

[Hjarki]

Note that DP/Kin can also be done with typed defenses easily:

 

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7

https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

 

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

Level 50 Magic Corruptor

Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols

Secondary Power Set: Kinetics

Power Pool: Fighting

Power Pool: Speed

Power Pool: Leadership

Power Pool: Concealment

Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

 

Villain Profile:

Level 1: Pistols

• (A) Superior Winter's Bite - Recharge/Chance for -Speed & -Recharge: Level 50
  
  
• (3) Superior Winter's Bite - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime: Level 50
  
  
• (3) Superior Winter's Bite - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
  
  
• (5) Superior Winter's Bite - Damage/RechargeTime: Level 50
  
  
• (5) Superior Winter's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (7) Superior Winter's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  
  

Level 1: Transfusion

• (A) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb: Level 50
  
  
• (7) Preventive Medicine - Heal: Level 50
  
  
• (9) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (9) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50
  
  
• (11) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime: Level 50
  
  
• (11) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance: Level 50
  
  

Level 2: Siphon Power

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
  
  

Level 4: Kick

• (A) Empty
  
  

Level 6: Swap Ammo 

Level 8: Hasten

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
  
  
• (15) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
  
  

Level 10: Bullet Rain

• (A) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (17) Ragnarok - Damage: Level 50
  
  
• (17) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  
  
• (19) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  
  
• (19) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
  
  
• (21) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge: Level 50
  
  

Level 12: Suppressive Fire

• (A) Superior Entomb - Recharge/Chance for +Absorb: Level 50
  
  
• (21) Superior Entomb - Accuracy/Hold/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  
  
• (23) Superior Entomb - Accuracy/Hold: Level 50
  
  
• (23) Superior Entomb - Hold/Recharge: Level 50
  
  
• (25) Superior Entomb - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  
  
• (25) Superior Entomb - Accuracy/Hold/Endurance: Level 50
  
  

Level 14: Siphon Speed

• (A) Pacing of the Turtle - Endurance/Recharge/Slow: Level 50
  
  
• (27) Pacing of the Turtle - Range/Slow: Level 50
  
  
• (27) Tempered Readiness - Endurance/Recharge/Slow: Level 50
  
  
• (29) Tempered Readiness - Range/Slow: Level 50
  
  
• (48) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
  
  

Level 16: Increase Density

• (A) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance: Level 50
  
  
• (29) Aegis - Resistance: Level 50
  
  
• (31) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50
  
  

Level 18: Executioner's Shot

• (A) Superior Malice of the Corruptor - Recharge/Chance for Negative Energy Damage: Level 50
  
  
• (31) Superior Malice of the Corruptor - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
  
  
• (31) Superior Malice of the Corruptor - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  
  
• (33) Superior Malice of the Corruptor - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  
  
• (33) Superior Malice of the Corruptor - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  
  
• (33) Superior Malice of the Corruptor - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  
  

Level 20: Speed Boost

• (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points): Level 50
  
  

Level 22: Tough

• (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 30
  
  
• (34) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All): Level 50
  
  
• (34) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP: Level 50
  
  
• (34) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance: Level 50
  
  
• (36) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (36) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50
  
  

Level 24: Weave

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 50
  
  
• (36) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (37) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50
  
  
• (37) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  
  
• (37) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage: Level 50
  
  
• (39) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All): Level 50
  
  

Level 26: Piercing Rounds

• (A) Superior Frozen Blast - Recharge/Chance for Immobilize: Level 50
  
  
• (39) Superior Frozen Blast - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime: Level 50
  
  
• (39) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
  
  
• (40) Superior Frozen Blast - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (40) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (40) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  
  

Level 28: Inertial Reduction

• (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points): Level 50
  
  

Level 30: Maneuvers

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 50
  
  
• (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50
  
  
• (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  
  
• (43) Kismet - Accuracy +6%: Level 30
  
  

Level 32: Hail of Bullets

• (A) Superior Avalanche - Recharge/Chance for Knockdown: Level 50
  
  
• (43) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  
  
• (43) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
  
  
• (45) Superior Avalanche - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (45) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (45) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  
  

Level 35: Scorpion Shield

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 50
  
  
• (46) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50
  
  
• (46) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (46) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  
  

Level 38: Fulcrum Shift

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
  
  

Level 41: Stealth

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 50
  
  
• (48) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (50) Red Fortune - Defense: Level 50
  
  

Level 44: Tactics

• (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up: Level 50
  
  
• (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (50) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff: Level 20
  
  
• (50) Rectified Reticle - Increased Perception: Level 20
  
  

Level 47: Grant Invisibility

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 50
  
  

Level 49: Super Speed

• (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points): Level 50
  
  

Level 2: Health

• (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance: Level 50
  
  
• (13) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery: Level 50
  
  
• (13) Miracle - +Recovery: Level 40
  
  

Level 2: Stamina

• [*] (A)

Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50

[*] (15) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 50

 

[Marshal_General]

How is rad for corrupters (or any AT) since you can slot a -Res in each attack?

[Parabola]

1 minute ago, Marshal_General said:

How is rad for corrupters (or any AT) since you can slot a -Res in each attack?

I like rad for its procability (definitely a word!) in general but not specifically for achilles heel procs. I find them unreliable in aoes and you have to bear in mind you can't get them to stack on the same target so too many in single target attacks could be wasteful.

[Marshal_General]

Just now, parabola said:

I like rad for its procability (definitely a word!) in general but not specifically for achilles heel procs. I find them unreliable in aoes and you have to bear in mind you can't get them to stack on the same target so too many in single target attacks could be wasteful.

I was thinking that with only a 20% chance to proc, the more attacks that have them, the greater chance of always having it affect my target.

[Parabola]

1 minute ago, Marshal_General said:

I was thinking that with only a 20% chance to proc, the more attacks that have them, the greater chance of always having it affect my target.

That isn't quite how procs work any more with the ppm mechanics. In a slow recharging, slow activating single target power without too much recharge slotting it will have a much greater than 20% chance of activating. There are guides around that explain this much better than I can here.

 

While it's true that having more of them will up the odds of always having one in effect they are taking up a space that could be taken by a damage proc. Getting the balance right is the trick! I tend to lean away from multiple -res procs simply because I can't see them in action as clearly as I can extra damage procs.

[RageusQuitus2]

Darkir has helped me with a number of builds.  And despite my drunken master/leroy jenkins playstyle they hold up in game.  

[Clave Dark 5]

On 3/24/2020 at 2:50 PM, Hjarki said:

Scourge is rarely meaningful when you're alpha striking most enemies from 100%.

It's a good thing Corr don't usually make the alpha strikes on teams then.

[kiramon]

7 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

It's a good thing Corr don't usually make the alpha strikes on teams then.

They don’t? 

[BrandX]

I would think the Corr Primary that benefits the most from Scourge, would depend on, not just the secondary, but which one gets targets down in life the fastest.

[Clave Dark 5]

14 hours ago, kiramon said:

They don’t? 

It's quaint, but some people do still trail behind the tanks, brutes and scrappers, if for no other reason than they're usually running ahead of the rest of the team.

[Tubalcain]

I know you said you don't want to play ice themed but my time as an ice corruptor was amazing. Blizzard calculates scourge per tick. 

[Doc Ranger]

Slight thread jack...

 

Thinking of a few possibilities...which would be most effective in teams?

 

Ice/Kin Corr

Ice/Storm Corr

 

or the reverse Defender versions. 

 

Branching out a bit lately from my Controller roots. I like my Ice/Atom Blaster a ton and my Rad/Kin Corruptor is  a blast as well.

 

Haven't really had a dive into Storm yet as I dislike teaming with people who overuse Hurricane or pop off Lightning Storm in caves every chance they get. But I do recognize it is quite good. I do not build proc heavy so keep that in mind. 

 

Thanks!