Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[Peerless Girl]

8 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I don't understand why teaming with other players isn't incentive enough. If you exemplar fewer than five levels you're not even being noticeably reduced in effectiveness, so why would there need to be an incentive?

I suppose that's true to a point. I'm also looking at it from the perspective of someone who literally spent 6 years under the old system, and while most RPers on Virtue loved to Ex down and help people for basically any reason, I'm not sure if that was true everywhere. I simply feel it encourages teaming at all levels to give 50s reasons to drop down. Least back in the day a lot of people didn't like the "ego hit" they had to take dropping down. Things could well be different now. (This is not me, I've never cared and always ran for RP reasons and/or with friends, though I will miss the extra Inf numbers, I suspect in the long term, plus with whatever other changes the devs have planned it'll be fine). 

[Oubliette_Red]

 

31 minutes ago, Peerless Girl said:

On 4/2/2020 at 2:30 PM, phocks said:

_{(to which, I still maintain that not having that extra incentive for exemplaring is something that needs reexamining later on, but this is besides my point)}

 

This is about the only thing in this thread that DOES concern me about this change, and I agree it needs to be examined. There should be plenty of encouragement to EX down and help lower level characters.

I'd have to argue that I'm sure that there are plenty of players out their exemplaring down without even giving a thought to the rewards, other than helping out fellow players. If my memory servers me  correctly, players even used to do it when they got ZERO rewards when exemp'ing down.

 

[Apparition]

14 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I don't understand why teaming with other players isn't incentive enough. If you exemplar fewer than five levels you're not even being noticeably reduced in effectiveness, so why would there need to be an incentive?

 

Have you seen some of the PUG teams out there? /s

 

That aside, outside of DFBs (which I run with XP turned off), I'm always exemplared with XP turned off when running team content below level 50.  Reward wise, I'm actually now taking a hit by doing so because not only do I now get half of the INF, but I get less drops than I would by soloing.  The extra INF made up for the loss of drops.

[Apparition]

2 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

 

I'd have to argue that I'm sure that there are plenty of players out their exemplaring down without even giving a thought to the rewards, other than helping out fellow players. If my memory servers me  correctly, players even used to do it when they got ZERO rewards when exemp'ing down.

 

 

I'd argue that there are a lot of players that, unfortunately, only care about rewards and couldn't care less about anything else.

[Oubliette_Red]

Just now, Apparition said:

 

I'd argue that there are a lot of players that, unfortunately, only care about rewards and couldn't care less about anything else.

Sad but true, though I think they are probably a small (but vocal) minority.

 

[kiramon]

Unfortunately for me farming us the least fun part of a new character and it now takes me longer oh well 

[Lines]

5 minutes ago, kiramon said:

Unfortunately for me farming us the least fun part of a new character

Then don't farm?

Edited April 5, 2020 by Lines

[Peerless Girl]

1 hour ago, Oubliette_Red said:

 

I'd have to argue that I'm sure that there are plenty of players out their exemplaring down without even giving a thought to the rewards, other than helping out fellow players. If my memory servers me  correctly, players even used to do it when they got ZERO rewards when exemp'ing down.

 

As far as I know, there's never been a situation where you got zero rewards for doing it. Because at the very minimum you were paying of XP debt with it. Mind you I started in i3, and I think the debt cap had been instituted by then (or would be before it really affected me). I remember meeting people whose 50s had so much XP debt they were basically infinitley paying it off. 

[Grouchybeast]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

 

I'd argue that there are a lot of players that, unfortunately, only care about rewards and couldn't care less about anything else.

I'm pretty sure people committed to rewards over everything else were farming or running Council radios in PI, they weren't thinking, "Ooh, a chance to run a Synapse on a team full of lowbies with DOUBLE INF!  I'd better send a tell fast!"

Edited April 5, 2020 by Grouchybeast

[Digirium]

Seems to me taking away influence from exemplar or switching off experience to gain influence merely switches players from one exploit (infinity patrol experience) to other exploits (low bidding, huge mark up  on IOs after converting). The world praises and looks up to capitalists so may be explains why nobody can see the problem?

 

 

[Errants]

Brilliant idea!!!

 

Let's just UP Inf rewards to the same level that the level 49 farms were making!

 

Run a steamroll TF with x8 mobs? Enjoy 2 million inf/hour!

 

 

 

What could go wrong? If everyone has more money, than the ebil marketeers won't be able to be rich!

 

 

 

Or, better yet - Universal Basic Income - If you're logged into a toon, you automatically earn inf at a rate of 2 million/min. That way, no one gets left out!
 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Errants

[SwitchFade]

4 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

are they cutting the price of the packs in half? dint think so. my buying power was cut in half there.

I've seen several io's that listed for 8, now at 5-6. I've seen others that were 5, down to 3. Ive seen converters go up. In this example buying power for a basket of goods, including the one you mentioned, has increased.

 

Price of car 1 is up? That's ok, because you saved money buying house 1, dog 1 and boat 1, which compensated you in terms of consumer surplus, so when you bought car 1 you actually had more currency. A wash, as it were.

[Lines]

35 minutes ago, Digirium said:

 other exploits (low bidding, huge mark up  on IOs after converting). The world praises and looks up to capitalists so may be explains why nobody can see the problem?

None of that is exploits.

 

If someone does put up huge markups, they're only creating opportunities for other players to undercut them.

 

Nobody can corner the market in any meaningful way to control it. In fact, impatient buyers will have a bigger impact on rising costs than marketeers.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Lines

[SwitchFade]

I should probably mention that these factors of economics, supply chain dynamics and financial metrics are what I hold a degree in and my vocation...

[ScarySai]

On 3/31/2020 at 9:32 AM, Deadly Fredly said:

You stop earning Empyrean merits around vet level 99, right? Some sort of inf gain buff at vet levels 100+ might help quell the discontent.

I'd be for it.

 

Alternatively, if they could find a way to turn it off for a very specific level range, that would be the best way to handle it. It was only really an 'exploit' in AE, standard missions generate nowhere near that much inf.

[Grouchybeast]

1 minute ago, SwitchFade said:

I should probably mention that these factors of economics, supply chain dynamics and financial metrics are what I hold a degree in and my vocation...

I think we've finally identified a player who is actually suffering as a result of these changes. 

[SwitchFade]

Just now, Grouchybeast said:

I think we've finally identified a player who is actually suffering as a result of these changes. 

Due to the fact I'm exasperated from explaining and my fingers are bleeding...? 😋😋

[ScarySai]

This change is a huge hit to inf generation, but I can't help but roll my eyes when it's stated to cripple the economy in any way.

 

Completely disregarding valuable drops from the equation and lowballing my figures, I went from being able to AFK farm 300m raw inf in a few hours to raw 200inf in a few hours. Somehow, I think the farmers will manage. I used to have to raise 2b for a fury proc, this is nothing.

Edited April 6, 2020 by ScarySai

[Grouchybeast]

1 minute ago, SwitchFade said:

Due to the fact I'm exasperated from explaining and my fingers are bleeding...? 😋😋

At this point I think that Sisyphus would turn you down for a job swap.

[EmmySky]

22 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

In this example buying power for a basket of goods, including the one you mentioned, has increased.

I have bought tons of stuff from AH and many insp from the nurse in my base.  Not once has anyone offered me a basket.  Noooo, I have to lug the stuff around the old fashioned way.  Where is MY damn basket!?

 

😝

 

@SwitchFade you are preaching to the choir while arguing with the brick wall.  Let the change trickle down for a few weeks and people will see how it works out.  Meanwhile, you need to keep your blood pressure reasonable!  

Edited April 6, 2020 by EmmySky

[Mageman]

So it takes twice as long to earn the same Inf - it doesn't matter if you're farming or doing normal missions.

 

How about adding ONE Empyrean Merit for each veteran level above 100? Since I have all my incarnates, I hope I can spend these on something else....

[golstat2003]

32 minutes ago, Mageman said:

So it takes twice as long to earn the same Inf - it doesn't matter if you're farming or doing normal missions.

 

How about adding ONE Empyrean Merit for each veteran level above 100? Since I have all my incarnates, I hope I can spend these on something else....

I wouldn't be opposed to that. Earn enough emps and you can convert them to a Transcendant and send to other 50s that need them.

[ivanhedgehog]

10 hours ago, parabola said:

The game economy works exactly like a real world economy.

 

actually it doesnt. When i am at work making money, chevys dont show up in my garage, and I dont hope for a lambo to drop. There is no omnipotent being that can change what everyone makes with a simple database change. And no one does the work of 8 men, at a run, and gets 8 salaries. While 2 of his neighbors kids stand at the door and earn a college degree.

[ivanhedgehog]

7 hours ago, Peerless Girl said:

 

"We" Always looked at "Reward per Hour or some such" that's exactly how Paragon's devs came up with and tweaked the initial merit amounts for the TFs and such when that system went in. A Merit was deemed to be "worth" x amount of game play time (I don't remember the metric offhand). As average completion times raised, they lowered the merit rewards, as they fell, they raised them. The game was already set up this way. Marketeering isn't adjusted, as has been stated many times in the thread, because it doesn't generate influence in the system, it moves around existing influence (and in fact removes a portion due to market fees). Ultimately this was as exploit making use of a game mechanic. You don't open a discussion on exploits for obvious reasons. Hyperbolic post is hyperbolic. 

I would love to see them look at Katie Hannon TF. The live devs way over nerfed it and now it hardly gets done.

[ivanhedgehog]

7 hours ago, Peerless Girl said:

I suppose that's true to a point. I'm also looking at it from the perspective of someone who literally spent 6 years under the old system, and while most RPers on Virtue loved to Ex down and help people for basically any reason, I'm not sure if that was true everywhere. I simply feel it encourages teaming at all levels to give 50s reasons to drop down. Least back in the day a lot of people didn't like the "ego hit" they had to take dropping down. Things could well be different now. (This is not me, I've never cared and always ran for RP reasons and/or with friends, though I will miss the extra Inf numbers, I suspect in the long term, plus with whatever other changes the devs have planned it'll be fine). 

Part of it is that many of them built a character to work at level 50. exemp down too far and the character isnt near as effective.