It's time to recognize Domination is bad.

[Naraka]

22 minutes ago, tidge said:

Every once in a while I will actually pause from fighting to spawn a crafting table, travel between missions, check the AH, whatever. I like that my domination bar is sitting there ready for me to get back to business. The last thing I want is for Dominators to be more like Brutes (or Controllers).

I haven't really thought too much about it since the last time I had to worry about perma-dom was when the game was live, but do you feel that is conceptually congruent with the AT?  Does that make conceptual sense that your psychopathic nature is always at peak?  I'm sure one could jury-rig a concept for anything but taking into consideration the concept of the AT itself, like an angry Hulk Brute never not being angry and always having max fury, does Dominator just get a pass on its concept?

 

I suppose another example could be a Stalker that doesn't use Hide but that doesn't really remove that power from the AT (you're taking it whether you like it or not!) nor does it isolate its concept to only striking from hide but rather being opportunistic with regards to how they attack (that's the way the AT has always been).

 

I suppose again some people don't like the initial concept for the AT being the Jekyll/Hyde sides of the coin which is why the AT has been changed quite a bit.  As someone who has always like both Stalker and Dominator and still likes their concept and plays with these concepts in my characters, I think a good middle ground (if I were trying specifically to preserve this concept) so those that want perma-dom vs those that like the peaks and valleys would be to limit the "double mez" portion of the power to only the beginning of domination (right after you activate it), maybe limited by how long you can keep the bar going (set it so that it deteriorates but is slowed down by using control and attacks) and once it reaches 0, you still have domination, the +duration and mez protection but you don't get double mag...just extra duration.

 

For the playstyle of the standard Dominator (standard being just regular SO builds), you'd activate Domination to get a huge burst of control.  For those with non-standard Dominators (i.e. perma-dom), activating domination off recharge can hinder how often you can maximize that small window of heightened mez, kind of like having Aim+BU on auto will not get you the max out of your damage powers but you will get max uptime.

 

Of course, that's more a hypothetical suggestion for trying to preserve a concept I like which sort of flies in the face of most players that play Dominator, which is not for the concept and unique aspects of the AT but rather the power and effectiveness.

[Galaxy Brain]

19 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

but I'm not the one sacrificing the design of the class by trying to perma out my domination...

No, the design of the class is to build up and use Domination often, as seen by the +Dom Build Up while Teamed encouraging it to be used quicker and the fact it can be sped up by outside buffs.

[Solarverse]

15 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

No, the design of the class is to build up and use Domination often, as seen by the +Dom Build Up while Teamed encouraging it to be used quicker and the fact it can be sped up by outside buffs.

That's great, but the class does have a secondary which is damage. Very few Doms I run across are even utilizing their secondary because they sacrificed it in the name of +recharge for permadom. The thing is, like I said, you play yours and I'll play mine. What you responded to is the typical bullshit I am told when I chose not to permadom. So that is my reply for anyone trying to tell me that I built my Dominator the wrong way. I already know your stance on it, I felt it was time to give my stance on it. If nobody had ever come at me cross with this permadom talk, I would have never said what I said. I play mine the way I feel they were designed, you play yours by the way you feel like they were designed, everyone walks away happy, right?

[Razor Cure]

10 hours ago, MTeague said:

Now, is my Dom softcapped?  No.  Her defenses are about 27% melee and 29% ranged.  But given how fast she locks things down, it's really not an issue.  I don't have to dodge many attacks for very long. And since I'm Plant / Psi, with both a six-slotted Tree of Life (a "fun" power but skipped by many) and Drain Psyche, I have no trouble keeping her at full health / mana as she goes about merrily destroying away.

While I agree with most of what you have said..this made me LOL. Given how stupidly broke SoC is, on anything, let alone a Permadom..saying your plant is totally fine really doesnt compare to all Doms.

[Outrider_01]

I want to apologize if I come off as an ass, character flaw of mine.  After thinking about it, we can all be touchy about subjects.  Sorry about that.

 

Just want to put forth something else, high recharged though not a requirement for a Dominator is a great benefit.  To be able to influence Domination to such a degree with that recharge, no other AT can influence their inherent like that.  Defense builds, benefit every AT yet don't impact the inherent.  Perma Domination like it is very powerful, is a positive that could be taken away.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

10 hours ago, Replacement said:

@Vanden Do you believe Permadom as it stands is perfect and healthy? 

(clarity edit: I mean that it exists and is unachievable without severe IOing, see below)

 

Do you think it is fine that one AT has such a huge binary in its performance, totally cut off from all but people who have mastered the system?

 

Do you think it is fine that in addition to the soft-cap struggles everyone else has, Dominators must also give up all their power and IO choices in pursuit of Global Recharge?

But its not a uniquely huge binary. A mental 2ndary blaster with perma drain psyche vs a low recharge build is a huge gap in sustainability. a perma light form PB is hugely different then a pure SO PB. Your basically here trying to say that the baseline and the meta should not have much if any of a gap. You do not need perma domg to solo +0X1 dif. That is the baseline a AT needs to be able to solo while leveling to be viable. That is it. They dont need to be able to solo lockdown an AV, they dont need to eb able to be the single CC toon on an LGTF.  That is the perk and the reason to pursue the high end IO set builds.

 

It is easier then ever for people to achieve this, those that dont are frankly imo lazy, not merely casual, but out and out lazy and can simply not be bothered to learn the how of using IO sets. We all amass plenty of merits via normal content play to build up basic sets with plenty of recharge to get perma hasten and perma dom. LOTG specials are not even a must in such a pursuit, just one of the easier big chunks. Somone at 50 can easily build up to 5 purple sets for 50%, fit in other sets for between 5 and 8 % more per set while not hurting their powers  in any way, if perma whatever is a goal they care about. IMO its usually those who want soft cap defenses and high dmg res in addition to perma whatever that chafe the most, as typically the big def set boosts are not the same as the recharge sets. If you got your way all that would lead to is making it a bigger no brainer to get soft cap def without giving up the perk of perma whatever.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

20 minutes ago, Outrider_01 said:

I want to apologize if I come off as an ass, character flaw of mine.  After thinking about it, we can all be touchy about subjects.  Sorry about that.

 

Just want to put forth something else, high recharged though not a requirement for a Dominator is a great benefit.  To be able to influence Domination to such a degree with that recharge, no other AT can influence their inherent like that.  Defense builds, benefit every AT yet don't impact the inherent.  Perma Domination like it is very powerful, is a positive that could be taken away.

stalkers ATO sets and the ability to re-enter hide status is a far bigger perk then perma dom, as it can let a Stalker often 3 or 4 hit even a EB that often otherwise challenges entire teams. From Frostfire onward a stalker with the ATO sets basically has zero issue with anything short of larger then baseline groups or anything less then AVs. Even with perma dom a dom cant lock down an EB or AV with ease or rapidly solo murder the clockwork king at level on a synapse like a stalker can.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 hour ago, Naraka said:

I haven't really thought too much about it since the last time I had to worry about perma-dom was when the game was live, but do you feel that is conceptually congruent with the AT?  Does that make conceptual sense that your psychopathic nature is always at peak?  I'm sure one could jury-rig a concept for anything but taking into consideration the concept of the AT itself, like an angry Hulk Brute never not being angry and always having max fury, does Dominator just get a pass on its concept?

 

I suppose another example could be a Stalker that doesn't use Hide but that doesn't really remove that power from the AT (you're taking it whether you like it or not!) nor does it isolate its concept to only striking from hide but rather being opportunistic with regards to how they attack (that's the way the AT has always been).

 

I suppose again some people don't like the initial concept for the AT being the Jekyll/Hyde sides of the coin which is why the AT has been changed quite a bit.  As someone who has always like both Stalker and Dominator and still likes their concept and plays with these concepts in my characters, I think a good middle ground (if I were trying specifically to preserve this concept) so those that want perma-dom vs those that like the peaks and valleys would be to limit the "double mez" portion of the power to only the beginning of domination (right after you activate it), maybe limited by how long you can keep the bar going (set it so that it deteriorates but is slowed down by using control and attacks) and once it reaches 0, you still have domination, the +duration and mez protection but you don't get double mag...just extra duration.

 

For the playstyle of the standard Dominator (standard being just regular SO builds), you'd activate Domination to get a huge burst of control.  For those with non-standard Dominators (i.e. perma-dom), activating domination off recharge can hinder how often you can maximize that small window of heightened mez, kind of like having Aim+BU on auto will not get you the max out of your damage powers but you will get max uptime.

 

Of course, that's more a hypothetical suggestion for trying to preserve a concept I like which sort of flies in the face of most players that play Dominator, which is not for the concept and unique aspects of the AT but rather the power and effectiveness.

My main dom is named bella kiss, he is my main red sider and based on a monsterous serial killer from history. He is a mind control/martial assault dom. I would argue that such a psychology as he is meant to represent as a true villain is very much in line with being able to patiently away unleashing oneself when the time is most opportune, but also being always at the read so as to never be caught unprepared( look up obsolete oddity's channel on youtube and his episode on bella kiss which should explain exactly what I mean here)).

 

You are basically saying here that how you think the concept is, is the only right way to view it from an RP concept and frankly I strongly disagree.

[siolfir]

8 hours ago, Replacement said:

 

Quotes in full if you're going to try to sensationalize me, please.

 

It was said in jest for this context but, take that entire quote and drop it into literally any situation in real life, and yes, I will back it 100%.

The quote assumes that you know what is best for others. I would disagree with that assumption.

 

8 hours ago, Vanden said:

Scrappers only land critical hits 5-15% of the time, though.

As mentioned, the idea was that even that chance would only be available 30% of the time. Also, if we're looking at IO builds, that chance goes from 0% (there are powers that don't critical) to 75% for short bursts.

 

7 hours ago, Naraka said:

Technically, Stalker's criticals were obtainable on mezzed foes as well as from hide.  But then we're also having to compare them directly to Scrappers who have more AoE and more HP.

 

The build philosophies of having criticals only a portion of the time is exactly what exists now.  The only difference between Scrapper inherent and Dominator inherent is that one gets an exponential buff from IO bonuses. Imagine if +dmg increased Scrapper crit chance by 5% per 50% damage buff or something.

Look at the ATOs, an IO bonus does give them a massive increase to their crit chance.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

9 hours ago, Replacement said:

Either this wasn't in pre-edit, or I skipped right past it.  Thank you for tempering your post, here. 

 

About "the data".

The thing is, you don't even need to play CoH to see this.  This reminds me of the "added damage to Favored Enemy" problem in Dungeons & Dragons™:

If your class is balanced around the damage you deal to Favored Enemies, you are underperforming against unfavored enemies.

If you are balanced around how you perform against other enemies, you are overperforming against your favored enemies.

 

I see your latest post that came in while I was typing this.  I do not see a reason to continue our back and forth on your individual points.  Much like Vanden earlier, I feel like you're reacting to specific things I said instead of the overall purpose of this thread.  So....

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

Hello!

This is the Feedback & Suggestions forum!  In the same way that we all know a Scrapper punches harder than a Defender, we can all say it's mathematically true that a Dominator is outperformed by a Perma-Dominator!  My suggestion is that we should make an effort to reduce the gap between these two builds!  

 

In the same way that if Stalkers had a .7 melee multiplier, we would all come to the Feedback & Suggestions forum to talk about how weak they are compared to Scrappers, I have made this thread to bring to light the objective, mathematical difference in power between Dominators and Perma-dominators, compared to the gradual, linear power curve experienced by other ATs in their journey to IO perfection!

 

Thank you for your consideration!

Uhm this sounds like you actually do not know D&D all taht well nor the history of ranger and the favored enemy aspect. In the earliest era ranger was a specialized class that demanded above average ability scores and a commitment to the ranger code( if one played in the original setting greyhawk this was the ranger knights of gnarly wood) which meant good alignment. Giant kind at that time included a very large variety of common to encounter monsters. Everything from little Kobolds( in that era the small cousins of the giant kin Gnolls) up to and inlcuding Titans, with all sorts like ogre, minotaur, half breeds, and in fact any one even normal humans of 7 feet or greater in height counted as giant kin for the bonus. And the bonus was not really part of their total power. A rangers two weapon fighting alone in that era meant they tended to out dps every other class.

 

Then came 2nd ed, Rangers still got kits, could choose from standard generic fighter kits, or specialized ranger kits including justicar which gave them access to weapon specialization making them in ever aspect better then the common fighter. Then came skills and powers, now rangers could dip into other warrior classes. I had one that was the son of a paladin and had spent points to get a paladins special mount and holy sword access on top of being a lawful good ranger justicar who was specialized in his chosen weapon.

 

Then came 3E, now rangers were just a common class with no special stat demands, and in fact if evil could pick their own race as a favored enemy. 3E+ was based around the idea of absolute player control of their character, and to be tailored to the campaign setting. With prestige classes etc all being outlined before players even making the character. So if it was an undead heavy campagn for example the ranger obviously would take favored enemy undead, and likely build for the feat that let them be able to crit undead because that is how 3E was designed. never touched 4 E or later so cant input on those later eds. But no a rangers favored enemy was not really ever a major factor in their class power balance. as in 1st and 2nd a ranger was out and out meant to be better then a commoner class like fighter. And in 3rd like all characters was meant to be fine tuned for the specific setting and campaign the DM planned to run before dice ever got rolled for stats if RNG stats even got sued as in 3E+ stat point allocation became the mainstream in RPGA run games.

 

Nice try bub but I  am a true old school D&D nerd hell Id even dare say a scholar of D&D and you trying to reference ranger just falls flat imo.

[twozerofoxtrot]

12 hours ago, Replacement said:

Pre-emptive Responses:

Just so you know, this is called a rebuttal, and then counterargument. Just FYI since you're adhering to the mechanics of debate properly here.

Quote

"Other ATs have to sacrifice flavor for power too!"

Yes, but the difference isn't anywhere this significant.

To quote a great man: "Yeah, well, that's just, like,  your opinion, man."  Unless you can quantify this, I think you're falling way short in convincing folks of your counterargument. To get my Elec/MA to Permadom was just as easy if not easier than getting my /SS Tanker's footstomp down to 4 seconds recharge, or my BR/Kin Corr's defenses to softcap. It was almost built in in to how to optimize almost any character I make. Again, point being the significance of the challenge, not whether or not the challenge exists and affects your personally desired build plan.

Quote

"Oh yeah?  What about Petless Mastermind?"

...Is actively going against the class design.  In the pursuit of player expression, a player should still choose the Archetype that most closely adheres to their vision. 

Including a Red Herring in your rebuttal? Not sure why as it weakens your overall argument, but okay.

Quote

I don't like your use of words like "Optimized" or telling me what's required to be "Good"

Cool, just don't project your opinions on me.  This thread is about objectively bad game design.

Do you mean "don't share your opinions with me?" Because this is what it reads as. If someone were to project their feelings onto you, that would mean they are upset about something else, and using this as an opportunity to vent their frustrations at you. Also, "objectively bad" is an oxymoron, use of which undermines your argument.

Hey, don't actually care about your beef with domination. If it gets changed for the better, great. Right now I see it as a one of dozens and dozens of weird game design issues that the overwhelmed HC devs are trying to work on. Maybe they'll get to it? Dunno.

 

My issue is that your debate process needs some work. You got the fundamentals down, but I think you need to step back a bit and separate the emotion to really get your points across stronger.

Edited April 16, 2020 by twozerofoxtrot
I spell bda.

[twozerofoxtrot]

10 hours ago, Replacement said:

You have no reason to be opposed to changes that do not affect you but do improve other people's lives.

 

Unless, you know, you're a monster.

Oooof, ad hominem. That's unfortunate. You cede some moral ground there.

[AngriestGhost]

I've built many perma-doms and as much as I enjoy them I'll admit the idea behind Domination was one I never enjoyed. On live we saw many changes to rework them from their original incarnation where their performance was even more binary.  I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the last of that design go away but I'm sure it would upset many players.  

 

If I were creating the AT from day one, I would implement an inherent like Brute's Fury, but with critical control.  It would begin with a 10% chance with no bar and scale up at  around 75% of the bar you would see a 100% chance for a full mag 6 control.  To me, Fury and Defiance 2.0 are fun mechanics though I understand if someone prefers to use Domination more methodically.  I just find myself sitting on it too long like unused potions in other games.

[Indystruck]

A real problem is also that current Domination substantially favors primary/secondaries that can take more sets to get to the recharge goal. Things like, say, an Earth/Earth dom might run into trouble because alot of the powers in Earth don't like taking sets. You can still finagle it, but it's going to sacrifice power effectiveness to be perma-dommed and that's not fun, but neither is not being in super-mode, so.

[gchpaco]

FWIW I have a dominator that I went permadom on, and I agree that there was a huge gulf between having it and not having it.  It made the dominator really awkward to play before I got it, and it's the only hard binary like that in the game at present.  Your suggestion is acceptable to me; the thing about permadom is it also fixes end issues on dominators and is their mez protection, so not having it is awkward as hell.

[Naraka]

4 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

My main dom is named bella kiss, he is my main red sider and based on a monsterous serial killer from history. He is a mind control/martial assault dom. I would argue that such a psychology as he is meant to represent as a true villain is very much in line with being able to patiently away unleashing oneself when the time is most opportune, but also being always at the read so as to never be caught unprepared( look up obsolete oddity's channel on youtube and his episode on bella kiss which should explain exactly what I mean here)).

 

You are basically saying here that how you think the concept is, is the only right way to view it from an RP concept and frankly I strongly disagree.

Firstly, you didn't answer any of the questions, you just made the assumption that I'm dictating what the right way to RP the concept is rather than taking note of the referenced concept of the AT itself.  Again, no one argues that the basis for the concept for Stalker is an assassin or the basis for the concept of the Brute is the mechanics of the Hulk.  The point of the questioning was to isolate the game mechanics based on the concept and rationalize being limited by or circumventing the concept itself which has nothing to do with what I view the RP concept is and how others should view it.  Another harsher example is, should Mastermind just be as strong without any pets or with maybe just 1 pet as they are with all their pets?  You can't circumvent the ATs concept by taking set bonuses without also taking a penalty.  Same as Stalkers, you don't merely ignore hide and assassin's strike and assassination without removing features of the AT that give it benefit.  If the concept of the Dominator took into account having a Jekyll and a Hyde but set bonuses bypass this concept (rather than minimize it), is that okay?

 

Secondly, what you make of the concept and what the concept is are going to be two different things.  You can make a Brute that has nothing to do with anger or just ignore the fury mechanic as a whole for the RP concept of a character...but one doesn't simply remove fury from Brute or grab a few set bonuses to get max fury all the time.  There will always be a build up phase.  There will always be a deterioration situation.  There will always be a difference between high fury and no fury.

[nihilii]

I'm in the strange position of disagreeing there is a problem to the extent you suggest, but also liking your solution a lot.

 

I don't bother building for perma dom, but perma dom occurs naturally because recharge requirements are fairly low in this day and age. I suspect people who struggle reaching perma dom levels of recharge tend to overvalue the defense softcap. I certainly don't use mule powers.

And I don't even care all that much about perma dom, even if I could run it. I tend to spam my powers, so quite often Domination drops. Big whoop. For about ~30 seconds, my controls aren't potent and I'm vulnerable to mez (provided I don't get protection through amplifiers or teammates anyway). Then we're back at full speed.

That said, it'd be great to smooth the curve, and honestly the change should be imperceptible to any permadom who actually plays their characters. If someone complains because they want to keep permadom when they have it on auto while sitting AFK in their base... Meh. The annoyance would be understandable, but at the same time losing some small QoL seems like a small price to pay to make the AT smoother overall.
 

[Galaxy Brain]

1 hour ago, nihilii said:

I'm in the strange position of disagreeing there is a problem to the extent you suggest, but also liking your solution a lot.

 

I don't bother building for perma dom, but perma dom occurs naturally because recharge requirements are fairly low in this day and age. I suspect people who struggle reaching perma dom levels of recharge tend to overvalue the defense softcap. I certainly don't use mule powers.

And I don't even care all that much about perma dom, even if I could run it. I tend to spam my powers, so quite often Domination drops. Big whoop. For about ~30 seconds, my controls aren't potent and I'm vulnerable to mez (provided I don't get protection through amplifiers or teammates anyway). Then we're back at full speed.

That said, it'd be great to smooth the curve, and honestly the change should be imperceptible to any permadom who actually plays their characters. If someone complains because they want to keep permadom when they have it on auto while sitting AFK in their base... Meh. The annoyance would be understandable, but at the same time losing some small QoL seems like a small price to pay to make the AT smoother overall.
 

Mostly the same boat here except I do see the gap as a problem due to what I outlined in my prior post.

 

Talking about this last night, it's most comparable to end drain lol. Everyone with -End powers benefits from it sure, but the difference between sapping 7% end per hit in a fight, and being able to 1-2 punch a whole mob of their end near instantly is night and day despite being the same mechanic. 

 

What is trying to be addressed, and what should be addressed IMO, is that unlike any other power or AT you invest in the curve is not smooth and sort of coerces you into one build (recharge) to gather up massive performance shifts. 

 

I think making the curve smooth by letting you crash and rebuild Domination while active, and hell making it easier by adding a +20% rech power into secondaries or something, would go a long way towards equity for all dominators and their players.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Galaxy Brain

[Lines]

1 hour ago, nihilii said:

I'm in the strange position of disagreeing there is a problem to the extent you suggest, but also liking your solution a lot.

 

Same boat. And this from a person who loves their permadoms.

 

Galaxy Brain's explanation won me over. I like the idea of enabling near-permadom. I could live with a little less uptime and it would be nice to hot have to take either lotg mules or hasten.

 

[Zeraphia]

As someone who has perma-doms and built for them to actually PLAY their controls as a different type of gameplay style, I really do not like these suggestions, but I agree with the principle that it should be easier for lower levels to obtain a power-boost for a decent amount of time longer. 

 

You can absolutely get perma-dom pretty regularly without trying very hard. The builds aren't cheap, but the LotG argument is on deaf ears to me. Why? Defense is something you should get regardless... I take Maneuvers for its defense, I take CJ for its defense, I take hasten for its recharge to boost all of my other powers... This isn't limited to perma-dom by any means whatsoever and I don't really see the issue with this...

 

That said, I have exemped to low level content plenty of times and it sucks. Pretty bad. I've got to say, I feel for the lower level doms, but I don't feel for them enough to completely forego all of the benefits that perma-dom offers me at higher levels. I think possibly lowering the recharge requirements/making domination build faster at lower levels would help them out a lot.

 

All this said, I play my dominators to permanently lockdown and get a real "Mother Mayhem" feeling out of Mind Control. It's a roleplaying thing and it's one of my favorite sets thematically that has always interested me. I don't want that to go away just to feel better at lower content. 

 

Yea, I realize I'm exactly the type of person you made your posts against, and yes, I also realize my opinion may be in a minority, but this goes along with changing the identity of an AT I'm familiar with (that quite frankly isn't nearly as OP as others...) into something a. less powerful b. not built for, is something that I would take major issue with. Lots of people argued this for Sentinel, to not change it too drastically from its originally intended purpose, well I'm going to hold that same basic mantle for Dominators. I don't want them to change into something completely different than I'm used to in order to fit someone else's preferred playstyle. 

[Galaxy Brain]

@Zeraphia, the one suggestion made so far shouldnt change that at all for you, but instead make it easier for low lvl or not as built.up doms to come closer to permadom levels while not really impacting existing permadoms in practice.

[Zeraphia]

Just now, Galaxy Brain said:

@Zeraphia, the one suggestion made so far shouldnt change that at all for you, but instead make it easier for low lvl or not as built.up doms to come closer to permadom levels while not really impacting existing permadoms in practice.

Forgive me, I am rather confused, it seemed early as if there was a post here and there about "oh well, it'll only be down for a little bit," "well for those who just go into an AFK base and expect it to not last well..."

 

No. I like my Domination. I like it permanently. I don't WANT to rebuild it. AT ALL. I built to not have to deal with this and I built to permanently feel powerful. If there is another suggestion you're speaking of, I'm glad to hear it (because some of these posts are pretty vague or I may not have interpreted it correctly.) However, a lot of these posts seem to be aiming at the idea that perma-dom won't be a thing anymore which I have a major issue to ever agree to.

[Galaxy Brain]

6 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

Forgive me, I am rather confused, it seemed early as if there was a post here and there about "oh well, it'll only be down for a little bit," "well for those who just go into an AFK base and expect it to not last well..."

 

No. I like my Domination. I like it permanently. I don't WANT to rebuild it. AT ALL. I built to not have to deal with this and I built to permanently feel powerful. If there is another suggestion you're speaking of, I'm glad to hear it (because some of these posts are pretty vague or I may not have interpreted it correctly.) However, a lot of these posts seem to be aiming at the idea that perma-dom won't be a thing anymore which I have a major issue to ever agree to.

The one suggestion I saw and I'm clinging to is this:

 

Change Domination to drain the bar upon activation, but allow you to build and maintain Domination again normally while the buff is active.

 

So, while you play normally and have Domination up you have ~90 seconds to refill that bar while doing your normal thing. Our assumption is that it takes probably ~30 sec to normally do this, even faster when teamed. So in practice if you are actively playing in the mission while Domination is active, and you have the required recharge, domination is still 100% perma.

 

What this changes is that if Domination lapses, you no longer have to rebuild meter and instead can simply wait for Domination to recharge and activate ASAP so long as you had meter built.

 

What would change is if you get perma dom and then dont play for ~90 sec it will drop and you'll have to grab meter. But outside the tightest of builds youd still usually need to at least monitor it or hasten as click powers anyway.

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Galaxy Brain

[tidge]

8 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

All this said, I play my dominators to permanently lockdown and get a real "Mother Mayhem" feeling out of Mind Control. It's a roleplaying thing and it's one of my favorite sets thematically that has always interested me. I don't want that to go away just to feel better at lower content. 

 

Yea, I realize I'm exactly the type of person you made your posts against, and yes, I also realize my opinion may be in a minority, but this goes along with changing the identity of an AT I'm familiar with (that quite frankly isn't nearly as OP as others...) into something a. less powerful b. not built for, is something that I would take major issue with. Lots of people argued this for Sentinel, to not change it too drastically from its originally intended purpose, well I'm going to hold that same basic mantle for Dominators. I don't want them to change into something completely different than I'm used to in order to fit someone else's preferred playstyle. 

This is very much how I feel.

 

Perhaps ironically I'm really happy that the HC version of the game right allows most ATs to "feel" more distinct from other ATs at earlier levels, whereas on Live (especially early days) it might not have been until lvl 20 or so that your AT started feeling like an AT and not just somebody running between zones punching/shooting things. Dominators get their 'taste' of this very early, but for very limited periods of time.... getting to higher levels means several things that progress naturally from the leveling up process:

 

1) They get more powers to use to fill up the bar faster

2) They get more slots (and power choices) to make IO choices that help them chase the bonuses they want (for PermaDom, it is Global Recharge)

3) The (non-Global, non-proc) IO effects get more powerful as they level

 

To me, this is the feel of advancement for this AT. I don't want to be 'given' Permadom at low levels, especially not at the price of having to radically change play styles for all content in the game. I can totally understand why folks want this sooner than later, but this suggestion feels like a solution in search of a problem.

 

For the record: I don't like the idea of having to 'rebuild a bar' while Domination is active. It simply feels like trying to map the Fury mechanic from Brutes onto a different AT.

[Zeraphia]

2 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

The one suggestion I saw and I'm cling to is this:

 

Change Domination to drain the bar upon activation, but allow you to build and maintain Domination again normally while the buff is active.

 

So, while you play normally and have Domination up you have ~90 seconds to refill that bar while doing your normal thing. Our assumption is that it takes probably ~30 sec to normally do this, even faster when teamed. So in practice if you are actively playing in the mission while Domination is active, and you have the required recharge, domination is still 100% perma.

 

What this changes is that if Domination lapses, you no longer have to rebuild meter and instead can simply wait for Domination to recharge and activate ASAP so long as you had meter built.

 

 

This sounds nice and dandy but... what about if you are traveling to a mission and lose Domination because you literally can't keep it active?

 

There are a number of instances where you're also just waiting for a team/league to fill, and now you lost domination again...

 

It sounds great in theory, but I'd still detest this in reality in a lot of realistic situations.