Scrapper vs Brute

[Haijinx]

22 minutes ago, siolfir said:

Stalkers have at worst a 10% chance to critical outside of hidden status with bonuses for nearby teammates up to 31% and placate isn't exactly useful for DPS most of the time. The Chance to Hide ATO proc, on the other hand... definitely worth it. Also, Assassin's Mark is fun when it triggers four times on 5 consecutive attacks, if you want to talk about RNGesus. Try it again and play it like a Scrapper.

 

Or for certain melee powersets.

The trick to playing the new hotness Stalkers - 

 

Play either a Newer Stalker Set so you have full scrapper AOE, or Electric 

Slot the ATO procs ASAP (I think level 7 can slot)

Slot the Guassian Build-Up Proc into Build-Up ASAP (17?  I think) 

[Apparition]

3 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

The trick to playing the new hotness Stalkers - 

 

Play either a Newer Stalker Set so you have full scrapper AOE, or Electric 

Slot the ATO procs ASAP (I think level 7 can slot)

Slot the Guassian Build-Up Proc into Build-Up ASAP (17?  I think) 

 

Or Fiery Melee.

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, Apparition said:

 

Or Fiery Melee.

Thanks.

 

That came later for Scrappers/Stalkers though?

 

 

[MunkiLord]

25 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I thought Brutes wanted to be Scrappers?

You're right, they do! Brutes are just Scrappers pissed off that they're not really Scrappers. Only Brute I have is my farmer.

[Seed22]

On 4/26/2020 at 5:17 AM, Herotu said:

Brutes seem to have taken over the Scrapper's spot - the original idea with the Scrapper (before Brute was availlable to heroes) was that it was the single-target DPS counterpart to Tanker's AoE.

 

Now Brutes are available for heroes, they merge Tankers' AoE with Scrappers' DPS. It's the best of both worlds! Or is it? Does the Scrapper archtype double-damageauto make up for it's lack of AoE?

 

TL;DR Why play Scrapper now?

 

FIGHT!

Well I disagree. I mean brutes are higher res but not higher damage scrappers imo. Sure crits at first aren't terribly reliable but they do have that ATO that changes the chance to be higher. My Stj/WP scrap can hold their own just fine and put out alright damage I'd say.

[Seed22]

10 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

You're right, they do! Brutes are just Scrappers pissed off that they're not really Scrappers. Only Brute I have is my farmer.

Only brute I play is my farmer. They're knock off tanks and angry scraps 😁

[Fan Mail]

I used to be Scrapper Fan.  Then Brutes came along and I was Brute Fan.  Then Stalkers were fixed so switched to Stalker Fan.  Then Tanker AoEs were buffed so now I'm Tanker Fan. 

 

I keep going back to Stalkers because of the massive damage they can do.

 

The thing I like about Brutes though is the momentum-feeling that keeps saying in my head, "Defeat faster, faster, faster, move it, move it, move it..."  MOAR FURY

[Herotu]

8 minutes ago, Fan Mail said:

I used to be Scrapper Fan.  Then Brutes came along and I was Brute Fan.  Then Stalkers were fixed so switched to Stalker Fan.  Then Tanker AoEs were buffed so now I'm Tanker Fan. 

 

I keep going back to Stalkers because of the massive damage they can do.

 

The thing I like about Brutes though is the momentum-feeling that keeps saying in my head, "Defeat faster, faster, faster, move it, move it, move it..."  MOAR FURY

Does that stack well with Titan Weapons? It seems like a similar thing..

[Fan Mail]

In theory it would seem that it would.  I've tried playing Titan Weapons and couldn't find the groove.   Maybe I'm just dull and don't get it.  Everyone else around here talks about Titan Weapons like it's the sheot. 

[The Bobby Llama]

On 4/26/2020 at 2:54 PM, Rathulfr said:

 

 I've always mained a Blaster, but I like creating other alts to change things up.  On retail I had an Invuln/Energy tanker that I loved, but then the changes in I4 and later completely wrecked tankers, Invuln, and Energy Melee.  I also had a Dual Blades/Regen Scrapper that was fun for the novelty of the combo system.

 

On HC, I've resurrected those and other melee characters, but I invariably get bored with them and go back to Blasters (or Sentinels, which are basically ranged Scrappers without the DPS -- but that's not relevant to this topic). 

 

I want to play melee, but there's just not much incentive to do so when Blasters seem more effective and less annoying to play (no more chasing fleeing targets).  The only melee character I play routinely is my Spines/Fire Brute, whenever I need to farm up cash to equip another Blaster/Sentinel/Corruptor.

 

In the meantime, I keep trying to find a melee alt that's as satisfying as my ranged alts.  My most recent attempt is a Katana/WP Scrapper.

Have you given Claws a try?  Focus is great for stopping runners in their tracks, and Spin is a nice AoE available early.  Shockwave with KB->KD is also great soft control.  I run Claws on a tanker, and with Laser Beam Eyes and IOs, I can fight at range if I want to.

 

Since it sounds like you just want to scrapperlock, Claws/WP Scrapper would be your easy mode combo, but Claws can pair well with anything.

[MTeague]

1 hour ago, Fan Mail said:

In theory it would seem that it would.  I've tried playing Titan Weapons and couldn't find the groove.   Maybe I'm just dull and don't get it.  Everyone else around here talks about Titan Weapons like it's the sheot. 

I've never used Titan Weapons, ever.  It's on the To-Do list, but.... pretty low on my list. 

I dunno.  Partly it just feels too over-the-top for me.  Even since the first time seeing Chernobog with the giant mallet, I was kinda like "really?"

 

Like, the only character concept I can see myself creating for Titan Weapons would be the minimum height anime girl with the giant hammer or giant sword, purely for visual laughs.  And my characters tend be more serious than that.  I'm not sure I've any character that's essentially there for humor value.  I have to be able to take them all seriously as a hero/villian to have much interest in playing them long.

 

Maybe if i make a character that was more like Imperious from Diablo 3 with a weapon-of-light materializing in his hand at will, with celestial wings. 

[Nanolathe]

18 hours ago, MTeague said:

As long as Brutes FEEL like Brutes, and Scrappers FEEL like Scrappers, I don't see a problem here.

I've never quite understood what the Scrapper "feel" is. Is it the irritation you feel when you crit an enemy you were already going to kill with an attack? Is it the frustration you feel when you don't crit a boss long after the dice roll streak becomes comical? Or is it that feeling of disappointment that you feel when you remember you don't have access to Super Strength or Energy Melee ... for some reason?

🙃

 

But seriously though, the Scrapper's inherent is oddly ... "Dicey". It feels very detached from player interaction or influence... like my character isn't really doing what I want them to do, when I want them to do it.

[MTeague]

53 minutes ago, Nanolathe said:

I've never quite understood what the Scrapper "feel" is.

To me anyway?  

 

The scrapper fieel is Scrapperlock.  Just, chomping your teeth onto a spawn and never letting go until it dead, no matter what's trying to beat on you, no matter what's trying to distract you.  Picture either a pit bull or a police dog being like "i gots you and I'm not letting go for ANYTHING".

 

Happily prancing away after you've taken down the entire spawn while teammates run back from the hospital, is, I think, optional  🙂

[Nanolathe]

10 minutes ago, MTeague said:

To me anyway?  

 

The scrapper fieel is Scrapperlock.  Just, chomping your teeth onto a spawn and never letting go until it dead, no matter what's trying to beat on you, no matter what's trying to distract you.  Picture either a pit bull or a police dog being like "i gots you and I'm not letting go for ANYTHING".

 

Happily prancing away after you've taken down the entire spawn while teammates run back from the hospital, is, I think, optional  🙂

A hyper-focus on killin' is something I attribute more to Brutes or Stalkers than Scrappers... and it's not like they are mechanically incentivised to act that way either. Stalkers gain "focus" that gives them a guaranteed crit with Assassin Strike, so you want to stick to a target and attack quickly to build that up efficiently, and Brutes get fury which needs little explanation; number go up - smash! get better - make number go up fast for more betterer Smash! 

 

I just don't get that tunnel-vision state of mind on a Scrapper; there's no reason to, and other ATs fill the role better, both mechanically and thematically. (though perhaps not in a purely mathematical way)

Edited April 27, 2020 by Nanolathe

[Hexquisite]

3 minutes ago, Nanolathe said:

A hyper-focus on killin' is something I attribute more to Brutes or Stalkers than Scrappers... and it's not like they are mechanically incentivised to act that way either. Stalkers gain "focus" that gives them a guaranteed crit with Assassin Strike, so you want to stick to a target and attack quickly to build that up efficiently, and Brutes get fury which needs little explanation; number go up - smash! get better - make number go up fast for more betterer Smash! 

 

I just don't get that tunnel-vision state of mind on a Scrapper; there's no reason to, and other ATs fill the role better, both mechanically and thematically. (though perhaps not in a purely mathematical way)

 

I like Scrappers, but honestly, I agree. I've fallen into Furylock (BETTERER SMASH!) more times than I can count, sometimes to the point where I forget a Mastermind's ally's pets aren't more things to smash. Or that allies aren't more things to smash.

 

But I like Scrappers, too. I like any AT that gives me interesting and different ways to punch things. 

[Blastit]

32 minutes ago, Nanolathe said:

A hyper-focus on killin' is something I attribute more to Brutes or Stalkers than Scrappers... and it's not like they are mechanically incentivised to act that way either. Stalkers gain "focus" that gives them a guaranteed crit with Assassin Strike, so you want to stick to a target and attack quickly to build that up efficiently, and Brutes get fury which needs little explanation; number go up - smash! get better - make number go up fast for more betterer Smash! 

 

I just don't get that tunnel-vision state of mind on a Scrapper; there's no reason to, and other ATs fill the role better, both mechanically and thematically. (though perhaps not in a purely mathematical way)

Because they were the original fighter AT. They could just zoom from spawn to spawn and fight stuff. Controllers, Defenders and Tankers lacked the raw damage output to fight quickly and generally had other priorities than simply attacking, while Blasters were much too fragile to afford entering a mindless state. Scrappers never had a critically important meter that they had to keep fighting in order to fill up so they're not mechanically driven to be berserkers like Brutes are but their duty was to just fight and fight they did. They didn't have to keep track of teammates like the support ATs and they didn't have to keep track of errant Lts or whatever like Tankers and Blasters did. They just had to fight.

 

Of course, some people who played Scrappers did run interception on any nonsense they saw happening but it was never an AT with a defined team role.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, Hexquisite said:

 

I like Scrappers, but honestly, I agree. I've fallen into Furylock (BETTERER SMASH!) more times than I can count, sometimes to the point where I forget a Mastermind's ally's pets aren't more things to smash. Or that allies aren't more things to smash.

 

But I like Scrappers, too. I like any AT that gives me interesting and different ways to punch things. 

 

Interesting. For me, furylock was nothing but an extension or lovechild of scrapperlock. And it never worked quite as well because I always take taunt on my brutes where I NEVER take confront on my scrappers. That said... I'm fully happyfunkilltime on all my scrappers, brutes and tanks.

[Rathulfr]

3 hours ago, The Bobby Llama said:

Have you given Claws a try?  Focus is great for stopping runners in their tracks, and Spin is a nice AoE available early.  Shockwave with KB->KD is also great soft control.  I run Claws on a tanker, and with Laser Beam Eyes and IOs, I can fight at range if I want to.

 

Since it sounds like you just want to scrapperlock, Claws/WP Scrapper would be your easy mode combo, but Claws can pair well with anything.

Only if I can wear bright yellow and blue tights and name myself "xx_VV0lv3r1n3_420-69_ROFL_xx".

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Rathulfr

[MTeague]

6 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

Only if I can wear bright yellow and blue tights and name myself "xx_VV0lv3r1n3_420-69_ROFL_xx".

 

You can totally do that.  From when you make the character until the first GM sees you and says "Really? Don't you know better?"

[Hexquisite]

On 4/27/2020 at 6:42 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Interesting. For me, furylock was nothing but an extension or lovechild of scrapperlock. And it never worked quite as well because I always take taunt on my brutes where I NEVER take confront on my scrappers. That said... I'm fully happyfunkilltime on all my scrappers, brutes and tanks.

 

I never quite get into Scrapperlock. I've come close, maybe even managed it now and then, but it's much rarer than Furylock. Possibly because they're squishier, and I always feel the need to keep one eye on my health. I never take Taunt on my Brutes (at least, not in the main spec; sometimes I'll off-spec it) so the gigglefunsmashsmash never gets interrupted.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Hexquisite

[Apparition]

On 4/26/2020 at 10:51 PM, Haijinx said:

Thanks.

 

That came later for Scrappers/Stalkers though?

 

 

 

Ahh, yeah, it did.  It came with SCoRE I believe.  I thought you meant the newer power sets in general, my bad.

[Riverdusk]

As others have mentioned, for me stalkers have taken over the scrapper spot, not brutes.  In general at least.  Brutes, scrappers, and stalkers all have different powersets that work best for each I feel.  So, a lot of times it more comes down to which melee/defensive powersets I want to play, and that determines which AT I use.

 

Stalkers though, once you get the 3 magical procs (the two ATO procs and a Gausian chance for BU), they do turn into insane killing machines.

[Rathulfr]

16 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

As others have mentioned, for me stalkers have taken over the scrapper spot, not brutes.  In general at least.  Brutes, scrappers, and stalkers all have different powersets that work best for each I feel.  So, a lot of times it more comes down to which melee/defensive powersets I want to play, and that determines which AT I use.

 

Stalkers though, once you get the 3 magical procs (the two ATO procs and a Gausian chance for BU), they do turn into insane killing machines.

Nerf Stalkers! 🤣

[Galaxy Brain]

2 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

Nerf Stalkers! 🤣

If you can find em

[Haijinx]

2 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

Nerf Stalkers! 🤣

Only the EM/REGEN ones