Remove/recreate purple caves

[MTeague]

15 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Which is implying that people you don't personally know are "randoms" and have no experience in the field. There's a reason that this exact resource constraint is mentioned so prominently, because many of us have experience in and currently work in fields that involve computer, software, firmware and design engineering.

 

@Redlynneis exactly on point.

To be fair, I would never assume a poster is a complete authority in any field.

Case in point.  Above your avatar, it says "Economics Professor".  You may in fact be one. You may in fact be an undisputed authority in the field. 

But the fact that the label above your avatar says so, is a far cry from any kind of proof of that.

 

I've said on numerous posts, that I've worked as a programmer for 24 years.

And that's true.

Unless I'm lying.  And really, how would anyone else know?

You may or may not have suspicous based on how I phrase certain things. But I would not in the slightest bit be offened if anyone say "yea right MTeague, keep blowing smoke".

 

For all any other poster knows, I could be a very very clever labrador retriever who's learned to type. 

We **ARE** all "randoms" to one another, unless you know someone here in real life. 

[justicebeliever]

2 minutes ago, MTeague said:

For all any other poster knows, I could be a very very clever labrador retriever who's learned to type. 

I always thought you were a clever little beagle, typing on top of his doghouse.  Or perhaps a snapping turtle, but then I'd expect a lower post count.  Unless @MTeagueis really a whole community of snapping turtles...

 

I agree with your point though...unless you know the person or seen evidence of their work, their credentials to me are fairly meaningless.  Everyone considers themselves an expert in everything on the internet...probably because there is no one around to call them out.

[SwitchFade]

@MTeague wait, it says that above my avatar?! Whoa, how did that get there? Does someone assign those?

 

Also, all fair points, to be sure! Fair to say that assuming people are randoms or not may be unwise?

 

Although, a K9 using his T9 whilst simultaneously performing keyboard calisthenics would verily be an authority in any field and truly unstoppable. There's no eluding that logic 😁

 

There were so many puns there, I even reached into the flip phone keyboard layout.

 

[justicebeliever]

1 hour ago, SwitchFade said:

Whoa, how did that get there? Does someone assign those?

Click on your avatar, and clcik Edit Profile.  Member titles are self-assigned...

 

Reminds me to change mine...I no longer spend much of the day on these forums...

[MTeague]

1 hour ago, SwitchFade said:

@MTeague wait, it says that above my avatar?! Whoa, how did that get there? Does someone assign those?

Experimentally.... (I just added one)

1. Go to your profile
2. click Edit Profile
3. Type whatever you want into "Member Title"
4. click Save
5. shazam, you have a title above your avatar

[SwitchFade]

@MTeague and @justicebeliever

 

So, I've never edited my profile to do that, I have no idea how that got there. Funny, I can't see a title above my avatar or either of yours on mobile.

 

I DID look at my page and it says "Rank: Economics Professor" and I'm sure I can't assign that!

 

So, I have no clue how that got there!

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by SwitchFade

[MTeague]

I'm guessing Crey agents got to you and erased those memories.

Or possibly Will Smith.  🙂

[JayboH]

Any time I'm on a radio team someone always complains about the blue/purple cave maps, and I don't blame them.

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

Experimentally.... (I just added one)

1. Go to your profile
2. click Edit Profile
3. Type whatever you want into "Member Title"
4. click Save
5. shazam, you have a title above your avatar

Zathras never listen to Zathras ...

[MoisesG]

Remove entire maps from the game just because they are annoying?

I agree they are annoying but they are a part of the game that gives it its flavor.

 

If we start removing things from the game because they are "annoying" and not because they are broken/OP in some aspect, what are we going to end up with?

 

The way i think about it is: from a hero's perspective some foes build good bases (buildings/labs and such) and other foes are terrible at it, but they all still need to be arrested. 🙂

[JayboH]

Just now, MoisesG said:

Remove entire maps from the game just because they are annoying?

I agree they are annoying but they are a part of the game that gives it its flavor.

 

If we start removing things from the game because they are "annoying" and not because they are broken/OP in some aspect, what are we going to end up with?

 

The way i think about it is: from a hero's perspective some foes build good bases (buildings/labs and such) and other foes are terrible at it, but they all still need to be arrested. 🙂

What about recreation

[Redlynne]

1 minute ago, JayboH said:

What about recreation

That would fall under ... arrested development ...

[JayboH]

Really trying to steer the conversation back to the topic

[SwitchFade]

17 minutes ago, JayboH said:

Really trying to steer the conversation back to the topic

I'm trying to steer us into the blue caves.

 

Because, whyforso? Because blue is @Troo

 

And caves are nice.

 

Nice like 🥧

[golstat2003]

After some thought, I'm fine with this. (Recreating the maps not removing) It's not the first thing I would prioritize but if they want to do it as some point in 2025 or so, sure.

Edited June 20, 2020 by golstat2003

[gameboy1234]

Yeah probably not a first priority but I'm not opposed to the blue caves being retired and replaced (maybe they could stick around in Ouroboros?)  The maps are super annoying and really could use both a design and graphical overhaul.  That goes for all the Council maps too.

 

But I think too something that should be looked at, probably as a higher priority, is collision detection.  I've been watching a lot of GDC (Game Designers' Conference) videos on YouTube lately and there's a fair amount of stuff on collision detection.  Part of the job of collision detection in a game is to try to figure out where the player wants to go, and help them go there.  That way the player doesn't come to a dead stop or is otherwise hindered just trying to move around because they bumped into some tiny thing.  Which kinda sounds familiar.

 

Enhancing CD would benefit all maps, so I think it should be looked at first.  After that the collision shapes for various in game geometry.  Torches on a wall are the worst.

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by gameboy1234

[Troo]

Usually the name has to be said three times for the demon to appear..

[Hyperstrike]

On 6/14/2020 at 12:55 PM, srmalloy said:

The Council redress of the layer-cake room is the pool room. For a little bit of extra annoyance, I discovered on Homecoming, having never found it back on Live, that there's an accessible area under  the lower level of the pool room, where the -- of course -- last mob in that room was hiding.

Hero 1: Where the frack is this guy?
Hero 2: Off in a corner, pickin' his nose...

[Oubliette_Red]

17 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

@MTeague wait, it says that above my avatar?! Whoa, how did that get there? Does someone assign those?

 

Also, all fair points, to be sure! Fair to say that assuming people are randoms or not may be unwise?

 

Although, a K9 using his T9 whilst simultaneously performing keyboard calisthenics would verily be an authority in any field and truly unstoppable. There's no eluding that logic 😁

 

There were so many puns there, I even reached into the flip phone keyboard layout.

 

One of the Mods likely added it after your numerous, educational, economics posts in the 2XP exploit fix threads.

 

====

 

Regarding the subject at hand. I find some caves challenging/annoying, but I would rather run through them tripled in size then go into the equivalent Arachnos multi-layers, multi-ramped, Empire State Building tall pancaking map.

 

Also, I like the cave maps because they remind me of Morrowind. Especially that one map the has the often-missed switchback all the way in the back. I think more of them should have over- and under-lapping tunnels that screw with the reveal views.

 

😈

[Chrome]

i am not trying to suggest that the things suggested wont take time to do, my frustration lies in the fact that people say that will take too much time as a reason not to do a thing, regardless of there development experience ( hell they may be a dev of another CoH public server and know exactly how much it will take) i think  the hubris of people claiming they know exactly how the developers of homecoming feel about said ideas, or whether it is not worth the time, is what really bothers me.  go ahead and tell me how much time it will take! it could take months and months, even years! but none of you can claim it will take TOO MUCH time.  if every single suggestion on here takes TOO  MUCH time because joe programmer says so then delete this section of the forums.

 

I never claimed that any of the ideas put forward would be easy, nor did i even think that.  Dev Time has become the champion of the nay sayers.  let's imagine i am a programmer (i know i am not, but hey it's the internet) and any of you come up with an idea that would make a new AT or new map or what have you.  you take the time to figure out the ins and outs and how you imagine balancing would go. you even had the skill set to know aproximately how long it would take.  you took the time to post it to the forums to share and the first response to that is "NO" or "that will take too much time to do ".  My immediate response to those people is who the flip are you and are you kidding?  Regardless if these people doing this have the technical knowledge and know your idea will take months or years. 

 

IT DOESNT MATTER, the developers should be the ONLY ones that say, "thats gonna take TOO MUCH time we cant get to that anytime soon" 

 

if these people (non devs) were to say i know your idea will take x time and open up a conversation on how it could be done relatively efficiently instead of saying TOO MUCH! then i could get behind that, but its like anybody here with a modicum of programming skill immediately feels they have a right or a duty to point out that this will take way too much time and the devs should focus there time on something else.

 

i challenge then what are these magical "other things" that dont take TOO MUCH dev time or what is more important.  as somebody who Use to love coming up with ideas and sharing them, the idea that everytime one gets posted the first response will be TOO MUCH, it starts to wear thin.

 

edited a smidge for a clarity

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Chrome

[Redlynne]

43 minutes ago, Chrome said:

i challenge then what are these magical "other things" that dont take TOO MUCH dev time or what is more important.  as somebody who Use to love coming up with ideas and sharing them, the idea that everytime one gets posted the first response will be TOO MUCH, it starts to wear thin.

So ... when it's not true, you don't want to hear it.

And ... when it is true, you still don't want to hear it.

 

Gotcha.

Good luck with that attitude ...

[Chrome]

1 minute ago, Redlynne said:

So ... when it's not true, you don't want to hear it.

And ... when it is true, you still don't want to hear it.

 

Gotcha.

Good luck with that attitude ...

that is not what i said or what i meant, i dont want to hear it from anyone but the developers because nobody but them have the exact real answer.  You literally skipped half my post or ignored it, i made sure that i was clear that random non devs spouting off its too much time instead of offering constructive criticism is what i dislike. 

[Redlynne]

5 minutes ago, Chrome said:

that is not what i said or what i meant, i dont want to hear it from anyone but the developers because nobody but them have the exact real answer.  You literally skipped half my post or ignored it, i made sure that i was clear that random non devs spouting off its too much time instead of offering constructive criticism is what i dislike. 

Considering that the Homecoming Devs say next to nothing about anything relevant to this question, you're trying to have it both ways ... and that's obvious.

You'll only accept the word of people who don't post publicly ... and will refuse to accept the word of anyone else, who just happen to be the only people who are talking.

 

You'll only accept the word of people who don't and won't speak out.

And you'll refuse to accept the work of people who do speak out.

 

HOW CONVENIENT ...

Edited June 20, 2020 by Redlynne

[Chrome]

Just now, Redlynne said:

Considering that the Homecoming Devs say next to nothing about anything relevant to this question, you're trying to have it both ways ... and that's obvious.

You'll only accept the word of people who don't post publicly ... and will refuse to accept the word of anyone else, who just happen to be the only people who are talking.

 

You'll only accept the word of people who won't and won't speak out.

And you'll refuse to accept the work of people who do speak out.

 

HOW CONVENIENT ...

I am trying to phrase this in a way you can get behind, and it is apparently not working.

 

I absolutely want to hear how much time my or anybody elses idea will take. that is educational and will help me perhaps tailor my idea on how broad or narrow it gets defined or changed.

 

my issue is with non devs claiming to know that it is TOO MUCH time, you can not possibly know that...even if you know that an idea will take 6.2 years 3 months 42 days and 6 minutes to accomplish, you literally CANNOT know that it will take too much time.  only the devs can decide that, and that is considering they even agree with the idea in the first place.  So i suggest that instead of telling people it's gonna take too much time just say "hey thats gonna take a lot of time maybe if...(INSERT EXAMPLE)" and add to the conversation instead of "too much time not worth even chatting about"

[SwitchFade]

33 minutes ago, Chrome said:

I am trying to phrase this in a way you can get behind, and it is apparently not working.

 

I absolutely want to hear how much time my or anybody elses idea will take. that is educational and will help me perhaps tailor my idea on how broad or narrow it gets defined or changed.

 

my issue is with non devs claiming to know that it is TOO MUCH time, you can not possibly know that...even if you know that an idea will take 6.2 years 3 months 42 days and 6 minutes to accomplish, you literally CANNOT know that it will take too much time.  only the devs can decide that, and that is considering they even agree with the idea in the first place.  So i suggest that instead of telling people it's gonna take too much time just say "hey thats gonna take a lot of time maybe if...(INSERT EXAMPLE)" and add to the conversation instead of "too much time not worth even chatting about"

The idea of changing the caves is prohibitively labor intensive.

 

Due to this fact, the priority of such a change, even if the majority wanted it, places this idea squarely at 9,999,999 out of 10,000,000 in priority ranking.

 

The devs have mentioned that time resource is scarce numerous times. That RIGHT THERE makes it a norm to discuss things in the scope of said limited resource.

 

If that helps, I rephrased as well. The simple logic of it can't be dispelled by the argument that we're not allowed to make it. That's like saying only Pythagoras can use his theorem.

 

Hard no vote: I like blue caves, and I don't need to justify my likes.

 

Hard no vote: resource prohibitive.