Rad or Invuln

[Hyperstrike]

3 hours ago, Bopper said:

 Sure, it can proceed to cascade failures too by evidence of the simulations that dropped to 10% and below, but over the long run it did hold up somewhat ok.

Of course.  You always have to check the status of your soul with the Happy Fun RNG Gods.
Because on occasion...

[Hyperstrike]

14 minutes ago, marcussmythe said:

it pays for this by being more fragile than some sets, and by being cataclysmically vulnerable

I generally refer to the phenomenon as "eggshelling".

Generally quite tough.  But you hit it just right and *SPLAT*.

Now, this happens less often on Tanks, compared to Brutes/etc.

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Omega-202 said:

No, just no. 

 

I don't have time to pick this apart right now, but someone please go ahead and do it, starting with explaining to him how Invincibility works.  

 

Also, stop pointing to secondaries with defense bonuses.  If those secondaries help Rad, they help any primary and you're not comparing apples to apples.  

I'm not gonna bother.
He's just going to keep reiterating his opinion as fact.

I've tried.

Let him believe whatever he wants.

[marcussmythe]

I mean... I think in a world with infinite dev resources, invuln could use a pass for clean up - do we really NEED REle and RNrg as two seperate powers?  Merge and slap in a sustain.  F/C/E/N reists could probably use a bump back to their old old days values.  Make the T9 not a suicide button (give it the light form 50/50 crash).  But none of that really deserves developer time when so many sets need the attention so much more.  
 

But if they want to lobby the PTB until my main gets a buff, Im not going to, yannow, tackle them.

Edited July 29, 2020 by marcussmythe

[Haijinx]

22 minutes ago, marcussmythe said:

When Bio is spoken of as #1, its for overall capability - damage, debuff, defense, resist, massive regen, absorb... it pays for this by being more fragile than some sets, and by being cataclysmically vulnerable to energy based -DEF and -RES.  For pure survival, other sets are definitely better.

 

That said, in deep vet levels with all the accolades and an incarnate and build for every situation, Bio can certainly be tough -enough-.

We all know Brutes and Scrappers can easily be built to take Alphas and continued attacks from +4x8 spawns   (Stalkers too but they have low threat so its a different thing to an extent) 

 

Therefore even though Bio is on the low end for Tanker Survivability in its offensive mode .. That is easily compensated for in a moderate to expensive IO build.  Not a lot different than Fire has been.  

 

Tankers are just so potentially tough, even the flimsiest of Primaries can be very hard to kill. 

 

You could probably build a fairly tough tanker using mostly Pool Powers plus a T1 TBH

 

[Hyperstrike]

I WILL, however, leave this here.
As someone simply doesn't seem to realize we're talking about BASE DEFENSE here.
Me?  I'm talking with ZERO ENEMIES IN RANGE.
Now, if we saturate Invincibility?

 

And it hits 59% all around, around 7 enemies.

[Hyperstrike]

Oh yes, and here's a completely unslotted Invuln with saturated Invinc.



Note: Turning Tough back on kicks up S/L Resist 20%.

Note: All these images include Resilient Core.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Hyperstrike

[Haijinx]

Dont forget the "+To Hit" shooting up by +24% 

[Haijinx]

Hmmm.  Can you run Guassians in Invincibility?  And how does it work there?  Based on which enemies it affects? 

[Hyperstrike]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

Dont forget the "+To Hit" shooting up by +24% 

[Hyperstrike]

2 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Hmmm.  Can you run Guassians in Invincibility?  And how does it work there?  Based on which enemies it affects? 

Yes you can.  The proc will tick as the power does.  I'm a bit beat at the moment (very info-heavy day), so I don't remember how fast the tick is.

[Bopper]

12 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Hmmm.  Can you run Guassians in Invincibility?  And how does it work there?  Based on which enemies it affects? 

 

9 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Yes you can.  The proc will tick as the power does.  I'm a bit beat at the moment (very info-heavy day), so I don't remember how fast the tick is.

The chance to proc will be every 10 seconds. I haven't tested it on an Invul Tanker, but I am guessing the chance to proc will happen against every enemy in your aura at the time of a proc roll.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Bopper

[Hyperstrike]

Three common ToHit IOs will push a saturated Invince on an otherwise unslotted Invuln to 58.6% ToHit.
Dropping the Gaussian in there, alone, kicks it to 88% when it procs.
And you can throw a Kismet +Acc (actually +ToHit) in there too.

 

[Haijinx]

Just now, Hyperstrike said:

Yes you can.  The proc will tick as the power does.  I'm a bit beat at the moment (very info-heavy day), so I don't remember how fast the tick is.

I'm curious since it might be a cool place to put it in a Invul/SS build.  Since putting it in Rage is useless.   I know putting it in Tactics works well, but I normally hate Leadership powers unless I *HAVE* to take them.    

 

Jump into a spawn and chance for Build-Up triggers ... might really synergize well for a Tanker. 

[Hyperstrike]

1 minute ago, Bopper said:

 

The chance to proc will be every 10 seconds. I haven't tested it on an Invul Tanker, but I am guessing the chance to proc will happen against every enemy in your aua at the time of a proc roll.

Danke Schoen!

[Haijinx]

2 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Three common ToHit IOs will push a saturated Invince on an otherwise unslotted Invuln to 58.6% ToHit.
Dropping the Gaussian in there, alone, kicks it to 88% when it procs.
And you can throw a Kismet +Acc (actually +ToHit) in there too.

 

Yeah probably do not need to actually slot for +to hit on an Invul. 

Definitely not for a Invul/SS 

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, Hyperstrike said:

Danke Schoen!

[Hjarki]

11 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Note: All these images include Resilient Core.

Which means you're not looking at 'unslotted' values.

 

What exactly do you think I got wrong in that comparison?

[Omega-202]

2 minutes ago, Bopper said:

 

The chance to proc will be every 10 seconds. I haven't tested it on an Invul Tanker, but I am guessing the chance to proc will happen against every enemy in your aua at the time of a proc roll.

Interesting...

That's worth looking into, especially in view of how good Gaussians is in Tactics on a Crab.  

 

[marcussmythe]

22 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I'm curious since it might be a cool place to put it in a Invul/SS build.  Since putting it in Rage is useless.   I know putting it in Tactics works well, but I normally hate Leadership powers unless I *HAVE* to take them.    

 

Jump into a spawn and chance for Build-Up triggers ... might really synergize well for a Tanker. 

I.. find it quite useful in rage?  Im hitting rage every minute, and it procs first time, every time, when I do.  Mind you, its not as handy as in BUILDUP, but yannow.  

That said, I dont have an Invuln/SS, so I cant give feedback on how often in procs in a crowd.  If you test this, let me know how much uptime your getting when in a crowd with it in invincibility?  I might consider moving it from buildup if it is a lot. (though I like the 'line up and lay down' effect of having it in buildup)

[Haijinx]

Just now, marcussmythe said:

I.. find it quite useful in rage?  Im hitting rage every minute, and it procs first time, every time, when I do.  Mind you, its not as handy as in BUILDUP, but yannow.  

That said, I dont have an Invuln/SS, so I cant give feedback on how often in procs in a crowd.  If you test this, let me know how much uptime your getting when in a crowd with it in invincibility?  I might consider moving it from buildup if it is a lot. (though I like the 'line up and lay down' effect of having it in buildup)

In Tactics it fires much more often than once a minute.  It can double fire also.

 

  

[Haijinx]

I'd have to make a new Invul/SS don't have one on Homecoming.  But yes that might be an interesting test.   Also with Tankers base damage buffed Rage is better, which could be fun. 

 

 

[Sovera]

On 7/29/2020 at 12:48 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

And 2 that get through takes them to 45 and 40. Then 40 and 37.5. Then 35 each. Then 30 and 32.5. Then 25 and 30. Just 4 attacks for things to balance out and a 5th for DDR to pull ahead.

And how many attacks come through when you're taking the alpha from a full spawn of max diff Cimerorans?

 

Yesterday, I took my freshly T4ed Fiery Armor tank into a solo +1 MoITF and came out the other end after around an hour with the Master badge.

Today, I took that same tank into a solo +4 ITF and watched in horror as his 30% melee defense crumpled in seconds and was rapidly dropped into the -50-60% range. Then the Kheldians added in their slows and then he faceplanted. This occurred multiple times. Course those Khel slows were a constant problem in that second clear the cysts mission.

 

Ya know what's awesome about SR and its 95% DDR? That never happens.

I haven't soloed the ITF at +4 due to my lack of interest in slogging through stuff so I have nothing to compare. In a group everything dies too fast to be a problem so my Fire Armor is at that 'tough enough' for the content I've done.

 

 

That said it has a few holes that I've noticed:

 

- Did an AE arc where enemies did Terrorize and I spent way too long cowering and unable to move once my emergency breakfrees were used.

- Carnies can kill me if I'm not careful. HP dips fast if I fight them.

- Endurance sapping is always a problem. Even a Yin can find me sucked dry if I am not juggling Super Stunner deaths to happen far enough. Sappers are ridiculously effective.

- Lack of DDR -can- force me to kite. An ITF or the above mentioned arc has me run around since even with 90% resists if I am at -30% or -50% I take damage at huge speeds. It's a curious phenomenon where the 90% seemingly stops doing anything. But, as others pointed, the debuffs are short lived, so I just hover out of range until my defense returns to normal. I find this normal strategy and nothing to recoil from.

 

So with all those little problems why am I sticking with Fire Armor? Because all those little problems vanish if we kill fast enough which I definitely do. Terrorize? A definite problem, but after I managed to uncover which one did it in the AE arc I started focusing them first. Carnies do a lot a damage? Certainly, but FU + Burn + Spin kills most minions in range. ITF and my lack of DDR? The only moment this happens and I may (not always) take a breaker is during the climb where we suffer a dozen ambushes and are at agro saturation cap for a few minutes while on our way to break the computer. Sappers? Locate and kill first like everyone has to do.

 

Even Bill's complaint about the kheldian's is something I do not notice (undoubtedly because I'm all IOed at 45% defense (with barrier but I rarely bother using it on CD. It's more of a pnic button) and 60% slow resist) and T4-ed out where his is a fresh 50). I can jump into each crystal pack and solo it since they do debuff but not fast enough. The kheldian ambush at the top of the hill can be a party killer but that's where using Barrier at the last second is an outcome changer.

 

Now my Bio scrappers can tank most of the game but they crumble in an ITF. A few hits and their defenses are down. The kheldians can murder them since the energy resists might be at 20-30% tops and with defenses stripped that's not enough to survive on.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Sovera

[Troo]

Bopper did graphs and all I brought were cheeky gifs..

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Hjarki said:

Which means you're not looking at 'unslotted' values.

 

What exactly do you think I got wrong in that comparison?

Simple notification since I forgot to pull it off before the screen grabs.
-14% S/L Resist
-6% E/N/F/C/T Resist.
-8% ToHit

BETTER?

And you've been told what you got wrong.
Multiple times.
By multiple people.

So no more.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Hyperstrike