Super Pack Super Dump

[macskull]

11 hours ago, Neogumbercules said:

Update on my Super Dump

I'll take "Words I never thought I'd read on the CoH forums" for 400, Alex.

[Sakai]

So here are my results. Bought 100 Rogue/Vig packs

 

Converters 180

ATOs 117

Catalysts 13

Brainstorms 2225

Merits 925

Unslotters 122

Windfalls 3 (Finally. Stumbled across one on Live but that's it)

 

There were also too many Inspirations to count, a variety of buffs, and a bunch of costume tokens which always come in handy if I remember I have them. 

 

I would imagine I could turn a profit on it but chances are they will just sit there hanging out with the stuff from all of those Winter packs I opened earlier this year. 

 

Was really more for comparison then anything else. 

[FoulVileTerror]

Would be nice if the Respecs were Respec Recipes instead.  Then my Spouse could send them to me, rather then them just clogging up her in-game mail box.

Same goes for everything, really.   If ever part of the Super Packs were tradeable, that could be very helpful.

[Neogumbercules]

52 minutes ago, Sakai said:

So here are my results. Bought 100 Rogue/Vig packs

 

Converters 180

ATOs 117

Catalysts 13

Brainstorms 2225

Merits 925

Unslotters 122

Windfalls 3 (Finally. Stumbled across one on Live but that's it)

 

There were also too many Inspirations to count, a variety of buffs, and a bunch of costume tokens which always come in handy if I remember I have them. 

 

I would imagine I could turn a profit on it but chances are they will just sit there hanging out with the stuff from all of those Winter packs I opened earlier this year. 

 

Was really more for comparison then anything else. 

Pretty close to what I got. 

[Troyusrex]

9 hours ago, Sakai said:

and a bunch of costume tokens which always come in handy if I remember I have them. 

Are you referring to Tailor sessions here? I've probably opened over ten thousand of these things and don't remember costume tokens (but if they don't show in Character items there's every chance I overlooked them).  

[Sakai]

58 minutes ago, Troyusrex said:

Are you referring to Tailor sessions here? I've probably opened over ten thousand of these things and don't remember costume tokens (but if they don't show in Character items there's every chance I overlooked them).  

Yes the tailor sessions. Happens quite often that I design a new costume, have not enough funds on a character and have nothing sitting in email.  Quite handy. 

[Sakai]

@FoulVileTerror mentioned giving them away as rewards for a costume contest. It occurred to me that you could buy your 100, award them however at your contest with the stipulation that the winners email a list of what they won. Get more results to compare with so much less clicking. 

[FoulVileTerror]

Good luck with that, heh.  I often request follow-ups, feedback, and other means of staying in touch with my event attendees, but -maybe- 20% actually do so.  

I do appreciate all my attendees, of course!   . . . I just sorta appreciate the ones who follow-up even more.

[Ukase]

On 8/6/2020 at 7:27 PM, Neogumbercules said:

What's the difference? 

The difference seems to be which edition of the ATOs you get. 

With each AT, there are two ATO sets. One came out a year earlier than the other, if memory serves. 
With brutes, there's Brute's Fury, and Unrelenting Fury. The former comes from the hero/villain packs, the ones you got, the latter comes from the vig/rogue packs. 

[Sakai]

Can you slot a set of Brute Fury and Unrelenting Fury at the same time?

 

Yes...yes you can. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Sakai
Edited because it is early in the day and I have a sloppy brain.

[Neogumbercules]

I tried again, this time with Vigilantes and Rogues packs. I'm not sure if it was just bad RNG or what but I got way less reward merits this time, which translated to less converters to sell and cut into my profit bad. I got a total of 117 ATOs, 9 of which I gave to my scrapper to use so I'm gonna end up just shy of breaking even.

[Neogumbercules]

OK after figuring out I left like 1200 converters in my inventory, and factoring in the sale price of the scrapper ATOs that I would have kept, I would say I "profited" about 90 million influence. A lot more if I factor in the value of those scrapper ATOs in superior form which, if I had sold them, I would have used Catalysts on.

 

This is basically a money generating machine, assuming one can stomach all the clicks.

[Yomo Kimyata]

26 minutes ago, Neogumbercules said:

OK after figuring out I left like 1200 converters in my inventory, and factoring in the sale price of the scrapper ATOs that I would have kept, I would say I "profited" about 90 million influence. A lot more if I factor in the value of those scrapper ATOs in superior form which, if I had sold them, I would have used Catalysts on.

 

This is basically a money generating machine, assuming one can stomach all the clicks.

It’s scaleable, meaning you can expect about the same percentage return on investment if you buy 10 packs or 100 packs or 1000 packs.  I’ve been approximating it somewhere in the 20-40% return area.

 

On the other hand, you should get a much much higher return on other strategies, but it’s hard to get scale.  For example, you can easily flip white or yellow salvage for a 200-400% return, but good luck doing that with a billion inf investment.

[Neogumbercules]

that's a good point about the scalability and makes sense. I like doing super packs. I find it less... stressful than converters if that makes sense. I don't have to camp my auctions and check in. Doing super packs is kind of like buying money in a way.

 

Are winter packs worth doing? I'm curious if the rate of income is higher, even if it's the same scale, the base numbers will be higher.

[Sir Myshkin]

On 8/17/2020 at 7:30 PM, Neogumbercules said:

Are winter packs worth doing? I'm curious if the rate of income is higher, even if it's the same scale, the base numbers will be higher.

Short end of it, no, not really worth it. There's a wider chance for failure because you're shifting from 10m a pack to 25m a pack, and the WO pack value is trend-set to be a -5m loss per-pack on the WO value alone (they typical sell for 20m). You essentially have to get 5 WO per 4 packs to break even, and use the "extra" stuff as your profit margin, so it's not a lucrative by comparison. It also takes a lot more INF to cycle relevant pack volume. 100m buys 4 WO packs, or 10 ATO packs. If you average 25 merits per ATO pack you could still get a decent return on converter/booster sales that would offset any loss on a poor-selling ATO.

[Neogumbercules]

On 8/22/2020 at 1:03 AM, Sir Myshkin said:

Short end of it, no, not really worth it. There's a wider chance for failure because you're shifting from 10m a pack to 25m a pack, and the WO pack value is trend-set to be a -5m loss per-pack on the WO value alone (they typical sell for 20m). You essentially have to get 5 WO per 4 packs to break even, and use the "extra" stuff as your profit margin, so it's not a lucrative by comparison. It also takes a lot more INF to cycle relevant pack volume. 100m buys 4 WO packs, or 10 ATO packs. If you average 25 merits per ATO pack you could still get a decent return on converter/booster sales that would offset any loss on a poor-selling ATO.

Thanks yeah I took pause before doing this and did another H/V packs. The Winter IOs just don't go for as high as they would to make a profit, especially if RNG hates me.

 

Instead I took another path and ended up pushing my Blaster to 50 so I could use Catalysts on the blaster IOs and the Brute IOs now. Working on doing the same with a corr. My turn-around has already been a lot higher with doing that just for the blaster and brute ATOs.

[TheSpiritFox]

Lmao. I would genuinely like to know how much influence you make in total and how many hours or whatever it takes you to deal with all of this, from claiming to listing them all. 

 

I'm kinda curious what the influence/hour of effort this actually is and how intensive and monotonous the experience ends up being. Even converter crafting gives you something to think about this sounds mind numbingly mindless, looking forward to your experience!

[Neogumbercules]

I would say it takes me about an hour to open all the packs and then go into my character items and claim everything from there. I recently found a macro that will apparently open all my packs at once so I'm looking to try that out. 

 

Now when it comes to the interface, there are some inherent weaknesses that make this process way more tedious that it needs to be:

 

• The character item menu cannot be expanded so you're stuck dealing with a very narrow window to work in. This becomes annoying when you start building up stacks of items that you don't want to claim right away, like temp powers and the seemingly infinite variety of team and dual inspirations. 
• Items like converters and unslotters will stack as a single item on the list, but you can only claim them one at a time. So if you get like 150 converters you have to click 150 times. 
• Reward merits are claimed 25 at a time but you end up with like 800 of them so it's a faster process than other items but still tedious. 

You'll end up with more ATOs than you can hold so at some point you have to either start throwing them up on the AH or jump into your base and stick them in storage. 

 

So at this point after about an hour of claiming there are a couple of variables that determine the income to be made and time you're about to spend. 

 

You could stick every ATO on the market for sell it soon pricing (around 6m each last time I did it) OR you could take your catalysts and your level 50 toons and start making as many superiors as possible with the characters you have available to catalyst with.

 

I've done it both ways, selling Blaster and Brute superiors and everything else as standard. It does take longer but you will make a lot more influence this way. 

 

I've done the process 3 times now and the first two times I didn't really bother to make superiors. In order to turn a profit I sold every single item I got, including the thousands of converters (which are the secret sauce of profit from this, really) and I ended up with somewhere around 150m profit after earning back the 1 billion investment, maybe a bit more and that included giving my scrapper ATOs to my scrapper to use, not to sell. I may have documented it on page 1 of this thread. 

 

The last time I did it I made superior ATOs for the Brute and Blaster ATOs and made around 250m profit -without- selling the converters! So it's definitely worth it to make superiors. 

 

As for inf/hour I don't think it's better than converting. On Monday I put in a bid for like 400 recipes and spent about an hour or two yesterday converting (using those 3000 converters that I didn't sell from the super packs) and made well over 400m influence. So it terms of inf/hour it probably sucks and inf/real-time it super sucks because it can take a couple days to sell through all those ATOs (I resorted to converting the slow sellers to brute/blaster ATOs, sorry Kheldians).

 

Going forward I'll probably do this:

• 100 super packs and make superiors. 
• Sell all and keep converters. 
• Use converters for flipping. 
• Repeat. 

I don't think that's the most efficient way to do everything but for me it's more about just doing something different, because flipping does get boring. 

[Grouchybeast]

15 hours ago, TheSpiritFox said:

Lmao. I would genuinely like to know how much influence you make in total and how many hours or whatever it takes you to deal with all of this, from claiming to listing them all. 

 

I'm kinda curious what the influence/hour of effort this actually is and how intensive and monotonous the experience ends up being. Even converter crafting gives you something to think about this sounds mind numbingly mindless, looking forward to your experience!

@Gremlin did an experiment on pack-opening profits with some stats on inf per minute spent earlier in the year.  Bear in mind that was before the recent market deflation.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Grouchybeast

[TheSpiritFox]

3 hours ago, Neogumbercules said:

I would say it takes me about an hour to open all the packs and then go into my character items and claim everything from there. I recently found a macro that will apparently open all my packs at once so I'm looking to try that out. 

 

Now when it comes to the interface, there are some inherent weaknesses that make this process way more tedious that it needs to be:

 

• The character item menu cannot be expanded so you're stuck dealing with a very narrow window to work in. This becomes annoying when you start building up stacks of items that you don't want to claim right away, like temp powers and the seemingly infinite variety of team and dual inspirations. 
• Items like converters and unslotters will stack as a single item on the list, but you can only claim them one at a time. So if you get like 150 converters you have to click 150 times. 
• Reward merits are claimed 25 at a time but you end up with like 800 of them so it's a faster process than other items but still tedious. 

You'll end up with more ATOs than you can hold so at some point you have to either start throwing them up on the AH or jump into your base and stick them in storage. 

 

So at this point after about an hour of claiming there are a couple of variables that determine the income to be made and time you're about to spend. 

 

You could stick every ATO on the market for sell it soon pricing (around 6m each last time I did it) OR you could take your catalysts and your level 50 toons and start making as many superiors as possible with the characters you have available to catalyst with.

 

I've done it both ways, selling Blaster and Brute superiors and everything else as standard. It does take longer but you will make a lot more influence this way. 

 

I've done the process 3 times now and the first two times I didn't really bother to make superiors. In order to turn a profit I sold every single item I got, including the thousands of converters (which are the secret sauce of profit from this, really) and I ended up with somewhere around 150m profit after earning back the 1 billion investment, maybe a bit more and that included giving my scrapper ATOs to my scrapper to use, not to sell. I may have documented it on page 1 of this thread. 

 

The last time I did it I made superior ATOs for the Brute and Blaster ATOs and made around 250m profit -without- selling the converters! So it's definitely worth it to make superiors. 

 

As for inf/hour I don't think it's better than converting. On Monday I put in a bid for like 400 recipes and spent about an hour or two yesterday converting (using those 3000 converters that I didn't sell from the super packs) and made well over 400m influence. So it terms of inf/hour it probably sucks and inf/real-time it super sucks because it can take a couple days to sell through all those ATOs (I resorted to converting the slow sellers to brute/blaster ATOs, sorry Kheldians).

 

Going forward I'll probably do this:

• 100 super packs and make superiors. 
• Sell all and keep converters. 
• Use converters for flipping. 
• Repeat. 

I don't think that's the most efficient way to do everything but for me it's more about just doing something different, because flipping does get boring. 

I get that. Another way to make money. Its what I suspected though, insanely monotonous for the return you get and less money/hour than converting by a good bit cause yeah I have about the same experience. I started buying recipes in bulk, I go list for certain recipes at 10k and bid 3 stacks of 9 so that by the time I converter craft I'm filling my 80 recipe slots with like 4 different IOs and I can buy salvage in the same number of stacks and quickly make them and start converting. Takes about an hour to do a round of 80 from login to final listing and since I am using my own merits to buy all of my converters I end up usually making about 300-350 million after it's all said and done converting and listing on the AH with an initial investment that's pretty damn small all things considered. Super packs sounds like it might be comparable to farming infl/hour at times and if that's the case nuuuu I'd rather cause inflation than deflation lmao

[Neogumbercules]

4 minutes ago, TheSpiritFox said:

I get that. Another way to make money. Its what I suspected though, insanely monotonous for the return you get and less money/hour than converting by a good bit cause yeah I have about the same experience. I started buying recipes in bulk, I go list for certain recipes at 10k and bid 3 stacks of 9 so that by the time I converter craft I'm filling my 80 recipe slots with like 4 different IOs and I can buy salvage in the same number of stacks and quickly make them and start converting. Takes about an hour to do a round of 80 from login to final listing and since I am using my own merits to buy all of my converters I end up usually making about 300-350 million after it's all said and done converting and listing on the AH with an initial investment that's pretty damn small all things considered. Super packs sounds like it might be comparable to farming infl/hour at times and if that's the case nuuuu I'd rather cause inflation than deflation lmao

Do you fish for good IOs or just toss everything up? I am leaning towards just throwing anything that goes for over a mill I'll just blindly list for 800k. If it goes for 2 mill I'll list for like 1.2. If I get lucky and roll into a miracle, or a defense set, I'll fish a little for a good IO, but the vast majority of my listings I go for quick volume VS trying to be an IO sniper. 

[Neogumbercules]

1 hour ago, Grouchybeast said:

@Gremlin did an experiment on pack-opening profits with some stats on inf per minute spent earlier in the year.  Bear in mind that was before the recent market deflation.

I didn't time myself per say but I can say that I definitely agree that the conclusions they came to regarding the four questions posed are still true in my experience. 

[TheSpiritFox]

2 hours ago, Neogumbercules said:

Do you fish for good IOs or just toss everything up? I am leaning towards just throwing anything that goes for over a mill I'll just blindly list for 800k. If it goes for 2 mill I'll list for like 1.2. If I get lucky and roll into a miracle, or a defense set, I'll fish a little for a good IO, but the vast majority of my listings I go for quick volume VS trying to be an IO sniper. 

I fish for every single converter I put up and often do not stop until I have something worth at least 3 million that doesn't have a ton of options up. Like, out of 80 IOs listed it is genuinely not uncommon for me to list at least 6 pieces of LOTG something and if I get like the end rech I WILL convert in set. 

 

I play my 50s quite alot. I have 11 of them now and a number of them are at vet level 30+. I try characters out and if I really like it I'll PL it to 50 and give it the most expensive build I can come up with for it and then incarnate it and incarnating 50s is what i would call my version of "leveling" a character. I don't do that that often so I currently have 2 level 1 alts with a billion influence parked on them and I have over a thousand reward merits stacked up purely from running TFs in my email and like converter crafting to the point I have a third level 1 alt that will have a billion before I feel like picking up the first one to do anything with it I am gaining more merits playing my 50s than I am spending on converter crafting fishing to my hearts content. 

 

So from my needs divided by my playstyle perspective reward merits are an infinite resource and thus so are enhancement converters. Fishing his how I maximize my influence/time. If I'm going to go through the effort of listing a few more clicks converting to something actually worthwhile is nice. If I get lucky of course I throw it up, but I've also wasted 30 converters on a single enhancement to end up with an IO that sells for 5 million. 

 

Doesn't matter. I still have more merits than I can spend and my pile continues to grow despite doing as much converting as I can stomach and far more converting than I actually need to do based on how fast I feel like tricking out alts. 

 

Lmao I haven't logged into my farmer in 34 days

Edited August 26, 2020 by TheSpiritFox

[Troo]

I get that some folks like opening packs and some seek variety.

 

It also seems some are torn between "free money!" & "it's soo hard", or some version of "free money" & "it should be easier", all the way to "easy money".. "but I need a macro"

 

Example:

On 8/17/2020 at 5:30 PM, Neogumbercules said:

Doing super packs is kind of like buying money in a way.

15 hours ago, Neogumbercules said:

this process way more tedious that it needs to be

 

Packs honestly aren't really that good of a return and there is some risk the RNG is grumpy.

[Neogumbercules]

I'm a designer in real life so when I see things like a lack of a "claim all" button or a tiny window that can't be expanded it bugs me at my core. It's not so much about complaining that it's not easier, more just complaining about annoying design. I do realize that it was never designed with the intent that players would be buying 100 of these things as once.