Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones

[Glacier Peak]

1 minute ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

See here is what you dont seem to be understanding, and are certainly not making any kind of real argument, you just keep stating what you want, and finish with a condescending thank you. What your advocating for would be a active deterrent to the above reasons people might choose to go to these zones currently. I am certainly not going to feel comfortable holding an RP memorial for Galaxy Girl in Galaxy City and her statue if while we are all there with our toggles turned off and having a  nice social RP moment, we can get ganked by scum bags.

 

Nor am I going to go hunt  the GM in DA echo with less then a decked out 50 loaded for war if I have to risk ganking. Nor are badge tour guides going to casually use their own fresh alts while showing others the routes to the more obscure badges in such zones if they can be ganked.

 

You need to offer actually arguments for why what you want would not lead to any negative impact on players current player habits.

 

Otherwise nothing you say has any substance nor validity. Thank you very much!

Hi,  my suggestion is not an ultimatum. I can enjoy all the game play mechanics you mentioned in your post if these zones were to be modified as I suggested. 

 

I appreciate the passion of those who have replied to my suggestion. I love this game too and I'm happy we can discuss how we think the game could be improved. 

[Glacier Peak]

2 minutes ago, Greycat said:

First, "easy to implement" is never a good thing to assume.

 

Second, even if the zones were switched to PVP and nobody cared, there's one OTHER thing that would probably annoy people. PVP mechanics for powers *are different* from what they are in PVE in many cases. Hell, it's one of the reasons PVP withered after the changes implemented in i13.

 

So not only would your proposed change keep people out who are absolutely opposed to PVP (and deprive us of zones where, for instance, people can hold RP events - Galaxy used to be a very popular event for that - because they don't want someone coming by and *starting fights* for the "fun" of disrupting events,) but even those who would otherwise not care would have zones where their powers operated differently.

 

 

Fair enough. I went in to the dev console on my private server and changed the player flag mechanic to all. That worked. It's the same as how the zone Warburg works.

 

I have experienced the differences you discussed between powers for PvE and PvP. I think that because it's a legacy decision that we are stuck with it. 

 

I appreciate the points you have made. 

[Grouchybeast]

36 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

My suggestion is to make the Echo zones more active by bringing in a game mechanic which is minimally resource intensive to implement. Going in to the dev command and changing the flag player rules.

But more active with what players?  This is the part I don't understand,  PVP players already don't use most of the existing PVP zones.  Why would they use these new zones?  What's going to attract them there?  If the proposal doesn't include a mechanism to actually increase the number of players who want to PVP, you have, at best, less activity in some zones balanced by more activity in others.  So you've made the Echoes more active, and the other PVP zones less active.  How does that benefit the game or players?

 

Honestly, the only outcome I can imagine is that any badgers -- the only people who do, currently, actually make use of the Echoes -- will be cranky, and will spend less time there, due to the annoying PVP game mechanics and the outside chance of ganking.   So it would most likely have the exact opposite effect in terms of total player time spent in the Echoes.

 

Incidentally, do people RP in the Echo zones?  If they do, I don't imagine adding PVP mechanics would improve their experience, either.

[Bionic_Flea]

No, thank you.  But I would certainly support portions of those zones being added as PvP maps for the arena.

[Glacier Peak]

35 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

But more active with what players?  This is the part I don't understand,  PVP players already don't use most of the existing PVP zones.  Why would they use these new zones?  What's going to attract them there?  If the proposal doesn't include a mechanism to actually increase the number of players who want to PVP, you have, at best, less activity in some zones balanced by more activity in others.  So you've made the Echoes more active, and the other PVP zones less active.  How does that benefit the game or players?

 

Honestly, the only outcome I can imagine is that any badgers -- the only people who do, currently, actually make use of the Echoes -- will be cranky, and will spend less time there, due to the annoying PVP game mechanics and the outside chance of ganking.   So it would most likely have the exact opposite effect in terms of total player time spent in the Echoes.

 

Incidentally, do people RP in the Echo zones?  If they do, I don't imagine adding PVP mechanics would improve their experience, either.

Very good points. I'll have to rethink my suggestion with this caveat in mind. 

 

Thank you

[Greycat]

38 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

Incidentally, do people RP in the Echo zones?

Yes. Galaxy used to be a big RP focal point, and Echo sometimes does serve that as well. I've also seen others doing so in the other zones - and I'm not the only one with a character with a tie of some sort to the old DA.

[macskull]

Ehhh... the only PvP zone that's consistently active across all the servers is RV on Indomitable and there's pretty much nothing you can do to change that. Adding more PvP-enabled zones will probably not spread the PvP population out more, the new zones will just be dead.

[Oginth]

What if Echo always get invaded? Let's say, week one of September, only Galaxy City Echo is invaded by Rikti. Week two, another Echo is invaded by another faction. This continues on until it repeats back at Galaxy City Echo with Rikti.

 

Down side: Invasion events may get too common, and GM will have nothing to throw at us.

[ShardWarrior]

13 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Adding Incarnate content to the Echo zone was what my quote was referring to. 

Ok, why is that a tremendous amount of work?  Incarnate level NPCs already exist in game.

[Yomo Kimyata]

This suggestion feels like a solution in search of a problem.  I don't identify a current problem that this would remedy, and I could easily imagine future problems that would arise from it.  Firm no vote.

[chi1701]

Out of curiosity, Ive played World of Warcraft and their pve servers have the option of enabling and disabling pvp, could this be a compromise if this type of system worked? 

[Glacier Peak]

9 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

This suggestion feels like a solution in search of a problem.  I don't identify a current problem that this would remedy, and I could easily imagine future problems that would arise from it.  Firm no vote.

Thanks

[Glacier Peak]

1 minute ago, chi1701 said:

Out of curiosity, Ive played World of Warcraft and their pve servers have the option of enabling and disabling pvp, could this be a compromise if this type of system worked? 

The system exists in this game as well, but requires developer console command access to turn off or on. 

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, chi1701 said:

Out of curiosity, Ive played World of Warcraft

My condolences.

[Glacier Peak]

7 hours ago, macskull said:

Ehhh... the only PvP zone that's consistently active across all the servers is RV on Indomitable and there's pretty much nothing you can do to change that. Adding more PvP-enabled zones will probably not spread the PvP population out more, the new zones will just be dead.

I'm seeing this comment and others like it as a common response to my suggestion. I appreciate the feedback. Thank you. 

[Glacier Peak]

5 hours ago, Oginth said:

What if Echo always get invaded? Let's say, week one of September, only Galaxy City Echo is invaded by Rikti. Week two, another Echo is invaded by another faction. This continues on until it repeats back at Galaxy City Echo with Rikti.

 

Down side: Invasion events may get too common, and GM will have nothing to throw at us.

Interesting idea

[Lines]

There's a pretty lengthy thread on the flagging idea you might want to dig through.

 

Some things got very misconstrued in that thread (the whole thread is born out of a misunderstanding) so it's not entirely a fun read, but there are some ideas in there you might like. Whether they'd happen is another matter.

[Ferrus_Xeno]

24 minutes ago, chi1701 said:

Out of curiosity, Ive played World of Warcraft and their pve servers have the option of enabling and disabling pvp, could this be a compromise if this type of system worked? 

DCUO has this feature, it makes some areas usually the 'safe houses' unbearable to be in due to the 2 maybe 3 people taking up half the room fighting. 

Lets not forget the bad-mouthing and attitude this brings as well. 

[Marine X]

Copy and Paste of my Idea in another Post from Monday:

 

Perhaps there is an as yet unmentioned opportunity here. What If you used the PVP Exemplar mechanic, everyone to a certain level and used it somewhere that hardly gets used, say the ECHO Zones. They could each get locked to set range like the PVP Zones but be PVE. It would certainly liven up that Badge hunt in Echo: Faultline if those CoT at the bottom of that trench could actually hurt you. we could consider them Flashback Zones since they are tied to Ouroboros, just a thought.

 

Echo: Atlas Park - 1 - 6 Hellions / Vahz / Clockwork

Echo Galaxy City - 1 - 6 Hellions / Vahz / Clockwork ( Maybe rework to spawn 6-14 Outcasts / Trolls / Igneous / Skulls / Lost

Echo: Faultline - 14-19 Vahz / CoT / Clockwork

Echo: Dark Astoria - 21 - 29 Banished Pantheon / Circle of Thorns / Tsoo

Echo: Rikti Crash Site - 40 - 50 Rikti / Crey / Devouring Earth / Nemesis Snipers

Edited Monday at 02:37 PM by Marine X

[Greycat]

9 minutes ago, Marine X said:

Copy and Paste of my Idea in another Post from Monday:

 

Perhaps there is an as yet unmentioned opportunity here. What If you used the PVP Exemplar mechanic, everyone to a certain level and used it somewhere that hardly gets used, say the ECHO Zones. They could each get locked to set range like the PVP Zones but be PVE. It would certainly liven up that Badge hunt in Echo: Faultline if those CoT at the bottom of that trench could actually hurt you. we could consider them Flashback Zones since they are tied to Ouroboros, just a thought.

 

Echo: Atlas Park - 1 - 6 Hellions / Vahz / Clockwork

Echo Galaxy City - 1 - 6 Hellions / Vahz / Clockwork ( Maybe rework to spawn 6-14 Outcasts / Trolls / Igneous / Skulls / Lost

Echo: Faultline - 14-19 Vahz / CoT / Clockwork

Echo: Dark Astoria - 21 - 29 Banished Pantheon / Circle of Thorns / Tsoo

Echo: Rikti Crash Site - 40 - 50 Rikti / Crey / Devouring Earth / Nemesis Snipers

Edited Monday at 02:37 PM by Marine X

Result: They'd be used even less.

[Glacier Peak]

25 minutes ago, Marine X said:

Copy and Paste of my Idea in another Post from Monday:

 

Perhaps there is an as yet unmentioned opportunity here. What If you used the PVP Exemplar mechanic, everyone to a certain level and used it somewhere that hardly gets used, say the ECHO Zones. They could each get locked to set range like the PVP Zones but be PVE. It would certainly liven up that Badge hunt in Echo: Faultline if those CoT at the bottom of that trench could actually hurt you. we could consider them Flashback Zones since they are tied to Ouroboros, just a thought.

 

Echo: Atlas Park - 1 - 6 Hellions / Vahz / Clockwork

Echo Galaxy City - 1 - 6 Hellions / Vahz / Clockwork ( Maybe rework to spawn 6-14 Outcasts / Trolls / Igneous / Skulls / Lost

Echo: Faultline - 14-19 Vahz / CoT / Clockwork

Echo: Dark Astoria - 21 - 29 Banished Pantheon / Circle of Thorns / Tsoo

Echo: Rikti Crash Site - 40 - 50 Rikti / Crey / Devouring Earth / Nemesis Snipers

Edited Monday at 02:37 PM by Marine X

Great idea! Looks like we had similar thought progression. I like the idea of tying them more to Ouro as well. You are essentially going back in time using the Fire and Ice Crystal, so it would stand to reason that those zones have a certain level range.

[Grouchybeast]

43 minutes ago, Marine X said:

Echo: Atlas Park - 1 - 6 Hellions / Vahz / Clockwork

Echo Galaxy City - 1 - 6 Hellions / Vahz / Clockwork ( Maybe rework to spawn 6-14 Outcasts / Trolls / Igneous / Skulls / Lost

Echo: Faultline - 14-19 Vahz / CoT / Clockwork

Echo: Dark Astoria - 21 - 29 Banished Pantheon / Circle of Thorns / Tsoo

Echo: Rikti Crash Site - 40 - 50 Rikti / Crey / Devouring Earth / Nemesis Snipers

Edited Monday at 02:37 PM by Marine X

This would have been an absolutely fabulous idea back on live, during the period when there was such a restricted supply of mid-level magical salvage on the blueside market.  All it would've lacked would be a level cap in the 30-35 range to farm mid-level recipe drops.

 

As things are now, I'm not sure it'll do much good for traffic in the zones.  Generally, I agree with the 'solution in search of a problem' people.  The zones are for nostalgia and badging.  It might be better to look for suggestions on how to make hazard zones, a part of the 'real' game world, more interesting to play in.

[ZacKing]

CONS:  This would be effort far better spent on something else that would actually get used and improve the game.  Lower level PVP zones already exist and they're barren wastelands.  Adding more isn't going to change anything, only make more barren wastelands.  much better uses for them besides wasting them on pvp.

[BZRKR]

If this was a PVP centric game like, say EVE Online, I would think it would be great to add the Echo zones as places to PVP in. Allow them (or sections of them) to be available as Arena Maps or whatever. I agree that Faultline's fissures would make an interesting PVP map.

 

However, since this game has so little demand for more PVP spaces I think that my response is along the lines of "You aren't playing with the toys you have, why do you want more?"

 

Personally, I'd rather the Echo maps get used as settings for future HC-developed Incarnate content, as enemies attack from other timestreams.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by BZRKR
punctuation is hard

[arcane]

18 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

we can get ganked by scum bags.

Why don’t you really tell us what you think about PvP’ers instead of being so gracious and civil.