The Tank Gods. . .

[Gobbledigook]

I have a Bio/SS and a Bio/EM Tanker now. Both are built very similar.

 

Bio/EM has a bit better single target damage but Bio/SS is a bit better on the AoE and offers better survival in my opinion.

 

I prefer my Bio/SS. With Barrier, Parasitic aura and Rune of Protection at his disposal he is pretty tough. Still working on the incarnates at the moment. It can not beat my Rad/SS for AoE though but it's close.

 

I may try a MoITF if i can find the willpower 😛

[Bill Z Bubba]

No Temps

No Insps

No Amplifiers

Enemies Buffed

Player Debuffed

2:09

Bet I'd go faster with amps. Shield/Nrg/Soul

 

 

[Doomguide2005]

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

No Temps

No Insps

No Amplifiers

Enemies Buffed

Player Debuffed

2:09

Bet I'd go faster with amps. Shield/Nrg/Soul

 

 

And I'm guessing the enhancements were a keeper this go around 😋

[nihilii]

Joining the gang!! No insps/temps/amps, buffed enemies, player debuffed +4/x8 MoITF on Stone/EM/Soul Tanker. 1:52

 

 

Combat Teleport singlehandedly saves Stone Armor.

 

There were interesting bits tied to this challenge I wasn't expecting:

- my build is heavily reliant on procs and has just enough accuracy to hit +4s in normal conditions. This gets wrecked by the player debuff. My EP and BS had a 60% chance to hit cimerorans out of Build Up. After M2, I quickly swapped the Mako Dam/End in both powers for a Mako Acc/Dam.

- in turn, this caused end problems as this character doesn't have any accolades yet.

- ET's 0 end cost is truly invaluable to keep some pressure even during an end crunch.

- Stone feels the damage debuff especially, stacked on Granite.

- M1 was surprisingly hard. Packs of cimerorans in general, with at least 1 boss, would eventually force me to run - well, teleport. 60% DDR just doesn't cut it if you're barely above the softcap (~49% def), even stacked on 90% S/L res, 3k hp and 500% regen...

- in contrast, the dwarfs and novas were no trouble whatsoever. Stone is equally sturdy to anything except psi, so exotic damage without debuffs is so much easier to handle than S/L with def debuffs.

- it took me ages to kill the beast group in M3, maybe 6-8 minutes. I think this is because Minotaurs throw a -damage debuff on you sometimes, which, again, compounds with Granite and the challenge debuff.

- Requiem/Romulus/Nictus Romulus weren't a threat. Passive mitigation + Earth's Embrace were enough to keep up most of the time.

 

I am a dumb person and screwed myself spectacularly in M4, as is often the case, by failing to pull Romulus properly and then attacking the worst Nictus first (the summoning one). Then the second worst (the healing one). In truth, I should have killed the autohit nictus first, because even though I wasn't in danger, Sunless Mire has a recharge debuff. Not only my attack chain is "just in time" as is, I have some downtime on Ageless and Hasten. Said downtime bumped from a few seconds to 20-30s with enough recharge debuffs. Ugly. The entire fight took over 30 minutes.

Incarnates were Musc T3, Void T3, Degen T3, Ageless T4, Banished Pantheon T3, Assault Radial T4.

Attack chain was TF -> ET -> EP -> Gloom -> BS -> EP. Against crowds, BS and EP were replaced by Whirling Hands. When low on end, I would add an additional ET at the end of the chain.

I'm thinking there's some upside for this character still, getting T4 everywhere, the accolades, and smarter tactical choices.

 

Build:

Spoiler

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1536;720;1440;HEX;|
		|78DA6594DB4F134114C667DBADB04BA1E5DA72A950047A83A5551F8C9710153411A|
		|A98D61713D3AC309486DA6DB62591471FFD27BC253EF8E29FA331A824FA82172E06|
		|30FA60EAE99E2F4D936EBAFDCD7C3373CE37B74D3F9EF7BEBDF9644E28DEEB45B35|
		|2C965CDD286B43D69335F5811F5A78DDE215673F3724D962AD2C854AD92CC5DB51F|
		|59F6209AD2B228A5B15092767E8B2B425FB6ACA291294BB9DAE314B324972DBB6A5|
		|60B56A9D3916E14F2EBD54229EF736A4BD25C957665BD500E2C940B2BC6357BB32A|
		|73196BB3984B9B95AAB4B782E4669ADE8F1AFD29757F3597085221A40AEF5FB7102|
		|955A4025C6FD7059E9A2AEEB89CB6995BE06D666A115C627EA2B80AC7F5287B1CCF|
		|F503FCCE54BF81BB4CFD2753A37C6ECEE771E7081155443684D3168B729F5885F3C|
		|4F2ACC743CCCF94D783BC9E6DEE7BEA1DF89ED9FE017CAA72DE39AEEFD0D8361EAB|
		|B4DD5338EE5DA64E9E3478D2E0A90B9EBAE069049E46E069029EC669EB3B10B7235|
		|1D734E10523D4D6C971456798FB7B29970FB97C5738A6FF327881D97311BCC41CDA|
		|77397BA550BC6EC4EBAED123FC14AD17D17A13DCBB2FE272B2F7C5B93E10E5FA408|
		|C19C40CDD14AD1FD1FACF62B7480BF06CD4403FAF4EB08F39BBC87D668FC07FC271|
		|D54D6306B10283183384315DE46F183986DFB09F5EEA1F428ED033D64E3F075F802|
		|F99E157CCAFB43DA3D8F951E418F383C83576CCBEC227E01FE60A611C6B349EE278|
		|6792E03468302766C15D5E711FF99FC4D849ECF8144EC2144EC6144E4AE43E4EF31|
		|AD7BF90E728E61E85E76DD212D012D076BC4218D00C9C921E5AA324CF5724A18DA8|
		|8D9B4ABFFAEEC7D4C6FDAEC55B5A932D4AAA4539D7A29C6F51965A9465156949511|
		|C45F3376E756D4F6F7C1D8432C3DE0F9AB530AFDB7EB316E57E877AD397E537DFE0|
		|F80973FA10FC051E31678E99A65E3F81ECE1615379B9A9FCA0A9BC48172785F2EB7|
		|8638EB5ACDAF81A08CD99DD7F9475F782|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

When I ran the ITF, I had a full set of Might of the Tanker in Mud Pots. Today I realised those 2 final slots are doing very little for me, so switched these to Fury of the Gladiator -RES and Gauntleted +Absorb.

Edited December 3, 2020 by nihilii

[Werner]

17 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

No Temps

No Insps

No Amplifiers

Enemies Buffed

Player Debuffed

2:09

Bet I'd go faster with amps. Shield/Nrg/Soul

Congratulations!

[Werner]

41 minutes ago, nihilii said:

Joining the gang!! No insps/temps/amps, buffed enemies, player debuffed +4/x8 MoITF on Stone/EM/Soul Tanker. 1:52

More congratulations! And both your and @Bill Z Bubba‘s times were significantly faster than mine. It looks like Energy Melee is a beast now.

[Bill Z Bubba]

45 minutes ago, nihilii said:

Joining the gang!! No insps/temps/amps, buffed enemies, player debuffed +4/x8 MoITF on Stone/EM/Soul Tanker. 1:52

Woot!

45 minutes ago, nihilii said:

Combat Teleport singlehandedly saves Stone Armor.

I'll relay this to my brother.

 

Noticing a trend in the usage of Soul Mastery.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Werner]

31 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Noticing a trend in the usage of Soul Mastery.

Yeah. I wanted a good balance of survivability, AoE, and single target DPS on my Shield/MA. Gloom was important to me to maximize DPS on level 54 AVs. I think a lot of people make the same decision, perhaps for the same reason. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

14 minutes ago, Werner said:

Yeah. I wanted a good balance of survivability, AoE, and single target DPS on my Shield/MA. Gloom was important to me to maximize DPS on level 54 AVs. I think a lot of people make the same decision, perhaps for the same reason. 

Agreed across the board. Even eyeballing a total overhaul of the BZBs based on what I learned here.

[Tsuko]

[Gobbledigook]

Is there a way to identify which nictus is which of the 3?

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

Is there a way to identify which nictus is which of the 3?

If I recall, it's always healer, autohit, spawner, from left to right.

[Werner]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

If I recall, it's always healer, autohit, spawner, from left to right.

That’s been my experience as well.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Side note: Tried out Soul Mastery instead of Energy Mastery on my brute on Beta. My end bar went dry before I was even a 1/4 of the way through a pylon.

Now I could run Cardiac instead of Musculature but that sounds like a pretty big damage hit when the goal is more damage.

There's also a nasty pause in the followup, focus, gloom, repeat chain that would have to be filled by slash, and with fu, focus, gloom, slash, fu will only be doublestacked.

So there's another nasty hit to DPS.

Seems to me that sticking with fu, focus, slash, repeat with energy/body mastery backing it up is still the way to go for single target on any claws build.

[Tsuko]

4 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Side note: Tried out Soul Mastery instead of Energy Mastery on my brute on Beta. My end bar went dry before I was even a 1/4 of the way through a pylon.

Now I could run Cardiac instead of Musculature but that sounds like a pretty big damage hit when the goal is more damage.

There's also a nasty pause in the followup, focus, gloom, repeat chain that would have to be filled by slash, and with fu, focus, gloom, slash, fu will only be doublestacked.

So there's another nasty hit to DPS.

Seems to me that sticking with fu, focus, slash, repeat with energy/body mastery backing it up is still the way to go for single target on any claws build.

Gloom is one of the top DPA of tanker and brutes, now you have a very particular build.

[Tsuko]

On 12/1/2020 at 11:44 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

No Temps

No Insps

No Amplifiers

Enemies Buffed

Player Debuffed

2:09

Bet I'd go faster with amps. Shield/Nrg/Soul

 

14 hours ago, nihilii said:

Joining the gang!! No insps/temps/amps, buffed enemies, player debuffed +4/x8 MoITF on Stone/EM/Soul Tanker. 1:52

 

Congrats to both of you 🙂

[Lex Talion]

3 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

If I recall, it's always healer, autohit, spawner, from left to right.

That's correct. And for those (like myself) who have a memory like a sieve: Heal, Aura, Spawn - Rommie HAS Nictus. 😉

[BurtHutt]

Fellas/Fellettes! I have never been a big tanker guy but am wanting to give one a go. Yes, I want to have a tank that can walk into any situation and endure it. So, which power set would accomplish that? I see tons of info here and solo efforts on TFs etc. All good info. Is there a consensus on a powerset that can do it all (or almost all) without too much difficulty? 

 

Is the new Energy Melee a good power? I'm looking for AoE, damage and sturdy. Any help and builds would be great and much appreciated.

[Hyperstrike]

Stone is still the Def/Res toughness gold standard.
With a good end-game build, IMNSHO, Invuln is second place.
With a good end-game build, bio comes in a VERY close third.

With incarnates AFTER the Alpha, it really becomes a toss-up.

Of all the Resist-based sets, Radiation Armor, with it's medium regen and +Absorb, when combined with an attack set that synergizes well (Rad, Dark, etc), it's the absolute toughest of the Resist-based sets.

If you want AoE, look at your attacks and decide which has the right combination of AoE for you.  Just remember, while you can cook SOME enemies to death, higher-echelon enemies require you to do more than just stand there and "aura" them to death.

Energy Melee looks to be a great deal better as an ST set now.  Though, I'm trying it out now, and I COULD be wrong.

[Gobbledigook]

8 hours ago, BurtHutt said:

Fellas/Fellettes! I have never been a big tanker guy but am wanting to give one a go. Yes, I want to have a tank that can walk into any situation and endure it. So, which power set would accomplish that? I see tons of info here and solo efforts on TFs etc. All good info. Is there a consensus on a powerset that can do it all (or almost all) without too much difficulty? 

 

Is the new Energy Melee a good power? I'm looking for AoE, damage and sturdy. Any help and builds would be great and much appreciated.

Invulnerability/TWs may be worth a try. Just need to patch the Psi hole with IOs and work on the endurance a little.  @Infinitumhas a few builds that could be adapted on page 3.

 

Most sets can be very tough with a good build though. And secondary is your choice, play one you like the feel of or concept.

[nihilii]

Invul/TW gets my vote as well. Nowadays it is simple to use: Momentum activates even on a miss, and you get primary-friendly No Redraw. It still deals great ST/AoE damage, gets tons of knockdown, has Defensive Sweep to overbuff against melee/lethal.

Energy Melee is great but wouldn't be my pick for "AoE" or "sturdy". It has capable AoE now, don't get me wrong, but it's not a star in that area. And Energy Transfer hurts your health, so the opposite of sturdy (even if Tankers can handle it).

 

EM is for fantastic ST damage and great endurance efficiency.

[Infinitum]

13 hours ago, BurtHutt said:

Fellas/Fellettes! I have never been a big tanker guy but am wanting to give one a go. Yes, I want to have a tank that can walk into any situation and endure it. So, which power set would accomplish that? I see tons of info here and solo efforts on TFs etc. All good info. Is there a consensus on a powerset that can do it all (or almost all) without too much difficulty? 

 

Is the new Energy Melee a good power? I'm looking for AoE, damage and sturdy. Any help and builds would be great and much appreciated.

 

Basically use any of those invul builds and swap TW to the secondary - and you are unkillable against anything not exotic - and by exotic I'm talking Hamidon -heal type stuff or Tyrant magisterium at crackling lightning.

[Xandyr]

Alright...pardon my ignorance,  but I've a couple of questions. 

 

 When doing the Tank challenge, what exactly is debuffes, and what stats for the enemies are buffed? Anyone have values?

 

 I see a lot have gone with Shield to do the challenge. I'm guessing for the DDR and Shield Charge?

 

 How do you think Rad Armor would do? Or Fire( more damage)?

 

 

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Xandyr said:

How do you think Rad Armor would do? Or Fire( more damage)?

Rad Armor isn't the best for a max level ITF under normal circumstances, let alone under debuff or buffed enemies.

 

With rad having no ddr - once the defense collapses they shred even capped resistances - even through the regen, absorb shield, and heal.

[nihilii]

Even Stone at 49% DEF and 40-60% DDR struggles to survive large packs of buffed cimerorans with 90% RES.

 

The exact numbers are probably upthread, but if I had to guess and remember, "buffed" gives them a 1.5x accuracy and damage multiplier? So that's 2.25x as much damage, *in a hypothetical scenario without debuffs*. Once defense debuffs are involved, the 1.5x accuracy modifier translates into more hits, more debuffs stacking fast, even more damage. So a buffed ITF might do as much as 3x or 4x more damage than a regular ITF, for sets without capped DDR.

Rad and Fire would likely get obliterated, on passive mitigation numbers alone.

Now this doesn't mean you can't do it with Rad or Fire. Just that your strategy would involve active mitigation like AoE knockdowns, kiting, using Barrier. Overpowering enemies with sheer damage also helps but I believe it wouldn't be enough on its own. There is truly a world of pain between a regular +4/x8 MoITF and a buffed one.