Old school playing is getting rare

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

On 9/9/2020 at 11:33 AM, Ironblade said:

No offense taken.  I absolutely recognize the value and this is why all my defenders and most of my controllers take all the Leadership toggles.  Like I said, I just overlook team inspirations.  When I switch to a character that is carrying some, my reaction is "Wow, I should have had some of those in that last mission.  I need to remember to get some for next time."  And then I don't.

 

 

Well....  it might not be easy to work it in by level 8 but I have it on the majority of my characters.  I'm all about teamwork and support and pretty much all of my characters will take a power or two that's mostly to benefit others.

 

 

LOL.  No.  Having someone with Recall is no longer critical, like it used to be in some situations.  Now it's simply useful.  Being able to bring people to your location is HUGELY useful.  I'll get Assemble The Team and I'll get the Incandescence incarnate power as a back-up, but that's not available when you're exemped below 50 and ATT has a long recharge.

 

"Oh, but everyone should have ATT."  Sure, but what if they forgot, or haven't gotten it yet, or that character didn't have the funds, or what if I'm the only person with Invisibility and my ATT is recharging from the last mission we stealthed?  Trust me.  I take Recall on most of my characters, I use it a lot and I get thanked by teammates *A LOT*.

I have tried to add it to the same ritual most of us have now with a fresh alt when we go grab things like mish tp etc. I also personally disable res inspirations. I never keep the things in stock anyways, usually merging 3 into 1 if I actually have such a need which is pretty damn rare these days.

 

Along with that team and dual insps, and best of all dual team insp imo are the ones worth stock piling away in base insp storage for real need situations. Which often are lower level exemp runs or leveling toon tf runs etc ime. I was on a syanpse the other day and kept using dual heal/end ones on the team during bigger fights and someone eventually said something like we dont have any buffers why am I not running out of end? I mentioned what I was doing and a few others made similar comments to you about never thinking about them, and saying they needed to make getting them a habit.

 

I think one thing you and I seem to for sure see eye to eye on is that having the means to help our allies is a positive asset in members of our community, rather then just the me me me moar poWAH! attitude that ime often goes hand in hand with the kind that mock and ignore allies when they struggle rather then try to lift them up. Hell there is a reason  many of my scrappers and brutes use the barrier with the rez aspect even on toons that dont need the barrier much themselves. because its just so damn handy at helping teams of lowbies and the like stay going on things like ITF runs.

[Johnny]

On 9/9/2020 at 10:59 AM, ShardWarrior said:

Perhaps this is just me, but I understand "overlook" to mean failing to notice something.  Again, people know it is there and they know what it does yet are still choosing not to take it.  Given that ATT is now available, I personally very rarely - if ever - see anyone taking Recall Friend.  It is a waste of a pool pick in my opinion. 

Well, you're being disingenuous, since within the context of my statements, I was seeking to highlight the tactical value of Recall Friend, and the ability for getting people to the mission doors faster, keeping things lively. For reasons stated previously in this thread, comparing Recall Friend with ATT is a false equivalence, which shuts the door on the ATT idea (it simply doesn't hold up in context).

 

Looking through this thread, there are clearly differing perspectives, broadly delineated as those that prefer to play through game content (i.e., not PL, usually not stealth, and usually kill-all or kill-most), and those that want their toons at max-level (i.e., pro-PL).

 

As someone else pointed out, PL is fine, so long as care is made to educate new players as to the distinction. The historical problem was max-level people presumably PL'ing new players without providing context, and perhaps selfishly with the aim of having fellow 50's to play with. (Just throwing that out there, so stop furiously clicking that Quote button). The other aspect are new players that are specifically asking for help in reaching level 50 (whatever their motivation).

 

To be clear, I'm in the kill-all or kill-most camp. I've rarely felt it necessary to stealth a mission, so I'm definitely rejecting the notion that Recall Friend is somehow mainly a stealth-mission tool. I vaguely recall only a couple occassions where, due to the team getting fatigued, we started expediting things with stealth-completions, though this would have been after having a lot of fun just playing through missions.

 

That being said, I don't appreciate the idea of "forum pvp" because it implies a strategy of being contrary for the sake of somehow winning some kind of argument. These forums are for a discussion. If your idea of fun is to twiddle other people, then you probably want to take that elsewhere.

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, Johnny said:

Well, you're being disingenuous, since within the context of my statements, I was seeking to highlight the tactical value of Recall Friend, and the ability for getting people to the mission doors faster, keeping things lively. For reasons stated previously in this thread, comparing Recall Friend with ATT is a false equivalence, which shuts the door on the ATT idea (it simply doesn't hold up in context).

There is nothing disingenuous about sharing an opinion.  I can appreciate and respect you have a differing point of view.  For reasons also stated previously in the thread, ATT and TT are viable alternatives to get people to missions faster, thereby keeping things lively.  This boils down to player choice.  Taking Recall Friend is either useful to you or it is not.  Neither answer is right or wrong. 

[Healix]

Well said...

 

[Heraclea]

On 9/9/2020 at 6:42 PM, johua said:

it's weird to me that people think removing or nerfing AE farms would lead to an increase in available teams.

I think it's more likely that people would just stop playing or find some other way to power level and the complaining would just start anew.

I remember the Dreck mission.  Wolves farming.  Demon farming on the Infernal map, which worked just like fire farms today.  The first coming of the Winter Lords.  I had a good time and made friends doing all of these things, too.  You aren't going to keep human ingenuity bottled up, especially in a game as friendly to creative types as  this one. 

[Johnny]

On 9/10/2020 at 5:30 PM, ShardWarrior said:

There is nothing disingenuous about sharing an opinion.  I can appreciate and respect you have a differing point of view.  For reasons also stated previously in the thread, ATT and TT are viable alternatives to get people to missions faster, thereby keeping things lively.  This boils down to player choice.  Taking Recall Friend is either useful to you or it is not.  Neither answer is right or wrong. 

I wasn't criticizing you for expression an opinion. I observed that you quoted me with a response, and you clipped my original statement to omit key details about what I was expressing. This is textbook disingenuous. And now you're playing innocent. Yes..thanks for playing. <wave>

[ShardWarrior]

22 hours ago, Johnny said:

I wasn't criticizing you for expression an opinion. I observed that you quoted me with a response, and you clipped my original statement to omit key details about what I was expressing. This is textbook disingenuous. And now you're playing innocent. Yes..thanks for playing. <wave>

I have no need to play innocent as I did not take anything you wrote out of context.  I simply offered a different perspective.  I understand some people have difficulty dealing with others who do not share their opinion.  Of course Recall Friend has a use.  Then again, so does skipping it to take another power which can help the player by adding to their defense or giving them more offense.  That has tactical value as well.  As I said, there is no right or wrong either way.   

[Johnny]

4 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I have no need to play innocent as I did not take anything you wrote out of context.  I simply offered a different perspective.  I understand some people have difficulty dealing with others who do not share their opinion.  Of course Recall Friend has a use.  Then again, so does skipping it to take another power which can help the player by adding to their defense or giving them more offense.  That has tactical value as well.  As I said, there is no right or wrong either way.   

And again you're dancing around, this time like you're a kid having been caught stealing a cookie from the cookie jar.

 

Next time, don't cherry pick your arguments.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

9 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I have no need to play innocent as I did not take anything you wrote out of context.  I simply offered a different perspective.  I understand some people have difficulty dealing with others who do not share their opinion.  Of course Recall Friend has a use.  Then again, so does skipping it to take another power which can help the player by adding to their defense or giving them more offense.  That has tactical value as well.  As I said, there is no right or wrong either way.   

Hate to tell you but Johnny come lately is correct. what you did is generally considered weak forum fu. The way you should of approached what you did was to quote the entire post, then highlight the section you wanted to specifically respond to, to show both the poster you respond to, and those who join the conversation later, that you are not trying to create a false narrative to late comers who dont read the entire thread from the first post.

 

Because you see there is at least an unwritten right and wrong way to approach forum fu. And you sir need to learn it better if you dont want to basically be a thread derailer as you are in this one to date.

 

And when it comes to actually playing the game in anything other then a solo fashion, which is to play in a way that does not annoy, piss off, or in general in any way conflict with he team. And one of the most common aspects of such building dating back to year one and never changing even at sundown is those who team often, have stealth, and run TFs take recall so that should the call to ghost the run be made they can do that effectively rather then try to solo end rooms like glory hogs.

 

I can assure you as one who has lead likely thousands of TFs on live and probably at least another thousand since HC, that in general a team doesnt give two figs if you can solo the end room if you do it without them, they are gonna be pissed. And there is literally not one build, that could be considered so flawless that it couldnt find a way to fit in recall if you also stealth.  Stealthing is all well and good solo, but in a team solo killing boss rooms will always be so much faster with the full team, no matter ones personal super solo build, that those who want to run tfs in teams for all the perks of faster xp etc, should be giving back to that team. Anti social solo builds rarely last a full tf run with me, as I will boot them the second I feel they are neglecting even one team mate.

 

My only 2 rules as a tf leader. Do what you do to the best of your ability, and always help ones allies. Those with selfish builds that cant help their allies in a meaningful way like recalling them because they are a selfish solo stalker build can go solo and stay out of my teams. Such players however want to be in my teams because teaming is the best xp gain for such toons who mainly excel at single target dps. You want to roll on teams, be liked, valued, and wanted back, you need to be more then full barbie doll dps mode. You need to have the tools that let you interact with your team mates as well as the mobs. And a once in a while ATT just isnt going to cut it.

 

So really folks like you should be on the remove all cs from att bandwagon, so all desire for players to actually be team players on teams via build choices can go the way of the dodo and we just all build 100% meta game optimal solo builds and just use temp powers to help allies, because obviously no one else even when on a team really should matter. Its like those runs I have joined lately where someone incaps, and everyone else just ignores them, and I am the only one coming back to help recover them. I have a feeling this is growing in common practice as I seem to be getting ever more enthusiastic thanks when I do as if I have done something no one else would ever think to do.

 

Frankly its really reaching a point in game even on bloody everlasting were folks just lack any sense of civility or social build ability. Puggle TFs are growing ever less fun as each seems to be at best 50% decent folks worth being around, and 50% the kind of trash that should stay on solo games because all they do is things that ruin the fun for the people who actually want everyone to have an equally good time.

[ShardWarrior]

44 minutes ago, Johnny said:

And again you're dancing around, this time like you're a kid having been caught stealing a cookie from the cookie jar.

 

Next time, don't cherry pick your arguments.

I am not the one hurling insults, so that says a whole lot more about you than it does me.  If you want to keep insulting me for having a different opinion, more power to you.

[jubakumbi]

I am so glad all these little unwritten rules mean nothing and that I don't have to bother to follow any of them to enjoy playing games, and that most games give me the tools to avoid all the players that want the rest of us to follow their rules.

 

It literally sounds like children on a playground arguing over how kick-ball will go today, IMO.

 

There are no 'TF Rules', one is not a dictator as a team leader, there is no onus on any player to do anything for the other humans in terms of power picks and usage, etc.

 

This, IMO, is the 'root' of this community - a bunch of pushy bust-bodies that want to make everyone play their way and look down on those that do not, complete with passive aggressive prose claiming 'all play-styles matter'.

 

IME, this is the bossiest MMO community that I have ever encountered and is what has soured the game for me, Live and after the Snap.

[RageusQuitus2]

Just now, jubakumbi said:

IME, this is the bossiest MMO community that I have ever encountered and is what has soured the game for me, Live and after the Snap.

Only if you pay attention to silly forum arguments (ive done it to shamefully).  I bet if everyone of the recall argument posters found there way onto a tf together..   it would go smooth.  Even if some had "questionable" power choices.  Reason is we all know the game well enough, and we all love the same game. 

 

Remember we all have bad days or run out of coffee, or step in dog piss cause we didnt let the little monster outside fast enough.

[jubakumbi]

1 minute ago, RageusQuitus2 said:

Only if you pay attention to silly forum arguments (ive done it to shamefully).  I bet if everyone of the recall argument posters found there way onto a tf together..   it would go smooth.  Even if some had "questionable" power choices.  Reason is we all know the game well enough, and we all love the same game. 

 

Remember we all have bad days or run out of coffee, or step in dog piss cause we didnt let the little monster outside fast enough.

For more than a decade?

I have been a 'community' member since Day 4 of Live.

These (same) bossy voices have tried to dictate everything from costume to power choices in this game the whole time.

It's not a 'bad day', it's a group of people that simply cannot abide other players doing things their way.

 

People here cannot even allow kids to dress up as real supers for a day for fun without losing their minds from the level of corporate fear the original development team instilled in the player base.

 

There are so many loud voices that play this game that are trapped in broken brain chemistry that they come across as the majority, IME.

I am a life long gamer geek and this 'community' has always been this way, even while claiming it's 'the best'.

 

It remains fascinating to watch.

[RageusQuitus2]

35 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

There are so many loud voices that play this game that are trapped in broken brain chemistry that they come across as the majority, IME.

I am a life long gamer geek and this 'community' has always been this way, even while claiming it's 'the best'.

 

It remains fascinating to watch.

Im pretty sure my brain is broken cause of chemistry.  I guess thats why on my more patient days I try and give people the benefit of the doubt.  And again I bet if I played with any of these peeps in game we would have a fine time (provided they played MY WAY DAMNIT!).

 

And I love people watching (and Ive been reading this thread so guilty).  Get a second floor balcony table off bourbon street, its the absolute best Ive ever seen.

[Bill Z Bubba]

59 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

These (same) bossy voices have tried to dictate everything from costume to power choices in this game the whole time.

While true, there's a whole lot more of us that don't care what you bring to a TF or how you build as long as you're not an asshat and have fun. Mostly because we CAN just run to the end without stealth, not die, and ATT everyone should the team WANT to do that instead of just slappin down everything in the way, as I prefer.

 

I've only got 4 people on my gignore list so far and not one of them got that way because of something that happened while I teamed with them. But if someone were to say to me "you're a selfish player because you didn't take X, Y or Z powers/pools," they'd be on that list immediately. Cuz those people just suck.

[skoryy]

Just as 'Twitter isn't real life' so is 'the forums aren't the real game'.

[Hew]

28 minutes ago, skoryy said:

Just as 'Twitter isn't real life' so is 'the forums aren't the real game'.

Forum pvp is a real thing!

[Lines]

2 minutes ago, Hew said:

Forum pvp is a real thing!

No it isn't!

[Saikochoro]

5 hours ago, Johnny said:

And again you're dancing around, this time like you're a kid having been caught stealing a cookie from the cookie jar.

 

Next time, don't cherry pick your arguments.

You aren’t going to win any arguments by throwing around insults. 

 

 

[Saikochoro]

3 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

I am so glad all these little unwritten rules mean nothing and that I don't have to bother to follow any of them to enjoy playing games, and that most games give me the tools to avoid all the players that want the rest of us to follow their rules.

 

It literally sounds like children on a playground arguing over how kick-ball will go today, IMO.

 

There are no 'TF Rules', one is not a dictator as a team leader, there is no onus on any player to do anything for the other humans in terms of power picks and usage, etc.

 

This, IMO, is the 'root' of this community - a bunch of pushy bust-bodies that want to make everyone play their way and look down on those that do not, complete with passive aggressive prose claiming 'all play-styles matter'.

 

IME, this is the bossiest MMO community that I have ever encountered and is what has soured the game for me, Live and after the Snap.

In my opinion, you hit the nail on the head once again in this thread. It really does boil down to some people spending far too much time and effort worrying about how others play the game. 
 

I haven’t participated in a ton of game forums, but I have actively participated in swtor, gw2, overwatch, Destiny 2, and this forum. There are bossy people in each game. However I noticed that in each of the 4 games I listed above (not including homecoming) the mass majority arguments relate to balance as opposed to how people are playing the game. 

Each community had their own issues that were annoying. However, out of the games I have played a lot, and participated in the forum community, this one definitely wins the prize for bossy subsections of the community trying to mandate how people play the game. 
 

 

[MunkiLord]

3 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

I am so glad all these little unwritten rules mean nothing and that I don't have to bother to follow any of them to enjoy playing games, and that most games give me the tools to avoid all the players that want the rest of us to follow their rules.

 

It literally sounds like children on a playground arguing over how kick-ball will go today, IMO.

 

There are no 'TF Rules', one is not a dictator as a team leader, there is no onus on any player to do anything for the other humans in terms of power picks and usage, etc.

 

This, IMO, is the 'root' of this community - a bunch of pushy bust-bodies that want to make everyone play their way and look down on those that do not, complete with passive aggressive prose claiming 'all play-styles matter'.

 

IME, this is the bossiest MMO community that I have ever encountered and is what has soured the game for me, Live and after the Snap.

Every word of this post is 100% accurate. 

 

[jubakumbi]

1 hour ago, skoryy said:

Just as 'Twitter isn't real life' so is 'the forums aren't the real game'.

I agree.

However, IME, the attitude is just as prevalent in-game, just not as loud...as in most players do just drop the team over causing a ruckus over play-styles.

The number of people telling others not to use KB/herd more/herd less/farm more/farm less/etc. in-game is still to high, IMO, even if it's more polite.

 

I agree with @Saikochoro that while there is all kinds of back and forth on other game forums, it's far more concentrated, IME, on the game itself, the balance, the content, than how others play, with perhaps the sole exception being 'new players in endgame content' and the angst some players have around that, who lose their minds over the 'in-experienced'.

 

I think part of the issue for COH was the original development team(s) themselves - at numerous times, they tried to make the player-base 'play it their way' when the code allowed a lot more.

 

I love playing this game.

I love playing with the vast majority of the people that play this game.

[Hew]

I guess my only real topical comment on this from a practical POV is a dislike of people asking what at/level you are before they invite you (keep in mind the LFM was just posted in LFG without conditionals), or when you send tells to people who are LFM with a comment (I would like to join, can you wait a minute or two?) and get radio silence, while they continue to try to find more bodies... Kind of sucks. If I am LFM, I dont care if you are driving around on your grannies 'lectric wheelchair, I am LFM and you can join. No conditions. Well, other than dont be an somesomehat.

[MunkiLord]

4 minutes ago, Hew said:

I guess my only real topical comment on this from a practical POV is a dislike of people asking what at/level you are before they invite you (keep in mind the LFM was just posted in LFG without conditionals), or when you send tells to people who are LFM with a comment (I would like to join, can you wait a minute or two?) and get radio silence, while they continue to try to find more bodies... Kind of sucks. If I am LFM, I dont care if you are driving around on your grannies 'lectric wheelchair, I am LFM and you can join. No conditions. Well, other than dont be an somesomehat.

If I start getting interviewed when responding to a LFM in chat I don't bother responding again and just move on. 

[skoryy]

5 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

However, IME, the attitude is just as prevalent in-game, just not as loud...as in most players do just drop the team over causing a ruckus over play-styles.

The number of people telling others not to use KB/herd more/herd less/farm more/farm less/etc. in-game is still to high, IMO, even if it's more polite.

Honestly, I've never had this problem in over a year on Everlasting.