Overwhelming Overpower: A Controller Inherent Buff - Control AVs and GMs!

[Naraka]

13 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

Going to ping @Naraka for their thoughts on this proposal for buffing the Controller's inherent. Hello there! I've noticed you posting your fair share of things about Dominators and Controllers in the past, so I'd definitely be interested in hearing your opinion on Overwhelming Overpower - does it overshadow how Dominators currently function, is it overpowered/underpowered/something you'd be interested in seeing? Would love to hear your thoughts!

I'm not sure why you would tag me as I'm not a huge fan of Controllers... Not a fan of the power combination (control/support) but I do have a couple, the highest a 41 ice/TA.

 

Personally, I think control needs a rework along with kill-time, AoE saturation and overall foe threat. A lot of things play into a lot of issues with other things and dominators are a whole other beast, perma-dom in particular.

 

But putting the idea in a vacuum and only concerning bringing controller closer to dominators in control, random "crits" are probably not going to work as well, IMO. Control isn't DPS where you can stand to get lucky bursts that add up or getting overkill damage doesn't feel as disheartening as locking down a target that dies at the same time.

 

If you want something more controlable, what about just giving controller is own version of domination that only powers up the next primary power (an over power button) that adds mag depending on who you target.

 

Or to make it more simple, have your AoE controls behave differently on a controller where the actual target gets additional mag depending on the target (sans the AoE immob). 

 

I also had a thought about a "focus" button/mechanic where it'd take the next AoE control (like the AoE hold) and turn it into a single target power but all the potential control is applied to that 1 target (16 targets worth). Sounds like a lot but it still requires you to wait for that long cool down. The concept being a person turning an entire city block into an ice cube to hold one strong target.

[Blackfeather]

8 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

Earnestly... I feel like it might be better to skip the idea of randomness to avoid permanent control. Purple Triangles exist, after all, on a 50/25 rotation. 

 

Why not leave Overpower "As Is" for proc rates and such, with no sub-check for levels of overpower, but increase the variable value to +20 rather than double-value?

 

That way a single Overpower Proc could hold most targets pretty well, but a pair of procs back to back could cut through purple triangles like butter, without requiring massive amounts of additional work.

 

Functionally, Overpower would work the same way as it always has in normal content, except now you'd occasionally be able to meaningfully Overpower specific hard-targets.

 

And because of the PvE/PvP mechanics split, we can just not mess with Overpower in PvP mechanics, leaving it unchanged, there.

Quick correction: Overpower currently functions as a 20% chance of a +1 magnitude to status effects - Domination doubles magnitude.

 

Making the magnitude of Overpower flat out higher's definitely interesting...though that actual number could be something that could end up being debated over: I think it's probably fair to say that a perma-Dom Dominator wouldn't appreciate the Controller having a 20% chance of having a Mag 23 status effect power.

 

On the other hand, that can easily apply to my proposal as well, and your proposal's probably easier to implement behind the scenes. Let me quickly run through some numbers using the same scenario as before:

 

Quote

Old Chances

Previously, using these parameters, I created a test that checked the likelihood of an Overwhelming Overpower working on an AV:

• We have a 50 second window to inflict Overwhelming Overpower (Purple Triangles up time)
• Assume a Hold can be used every 5 seconds or so (decent slotting, includes recharge/animation time)
  • Each Hold has a 1 in 20 chance of affecting an AV
• This gives us a total of 10 attempts in that window

The results from the original chance table resulted in a 40.13% chance of at least one Overwhelming Overpower that'd affect an AV in that timeframe.

 

So! With a +20 Mag Hold, it'd take 2-3 applications of an Overpower to lock down an AV. Assuming we have 10 separate attempts like before, within that 50 second window, let's run through some numbers...time to quickly learn more about binomial probability, yay! ...did I mention I suck at maths? >.>

• Likelihood of no Overpower occurring in those 10 attempts: (4/5) ^ 10 = 11%
  • Likelihood of at least one Overpower occurring = 89%
• Likelihood of exactly one Overpower occurring in those 10 attempts (using a calculator here) = 27%
• Likelihood of at least two Overpowers occurring = likelihood of at least one Overpower occurring - chance of exactly one Overpower = 62%

So there'll be a 62% chance of locking down an AV if we assume that this +20 Overpower goes off twice, given 10 attempts (and some additional magnitude from those other attempts) - it's somewhere within the ballpark of @honoroit's suggestion of flat out doubling the original probability table, which I calculated here as a 65% chance of affecting an AV.

[Blackfeather]

Urgh, math is hard, if anybody sees anything I did wrong with the above, please, please correct me. XD

[Blackfeather]

Actually, might as well ping @HelenCarnate to make sure the math in the post above is correct, just in case!

[Steampunkette]

2 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

MATH

Very nice mathing!

 

But! You didn't include durations in your calculations. Someone could have a Overpower Hold with a duration overlapping into the purple triangles phase, applied in the down triangles phase, and thus need only to trigger a second Overpower to lock the AV down.

 

Also if you have two controllers yadda yadda yadda.

 

Point is: It would be pretty effective, but not perfectly so.

[Blackfeather]

1 minute ago, Steampunkette said:

Very nice mathing!

 

But! You didn't include durations in your calculations. Someone could have a Overpower Hold with a duration overlapping into the purple triangles phase, applied in the down triangles phase, and thus need only to trigger a second Overpower to lock the AV down.

 

Also if you have two controllers yadda yadda yadda.

 

Point is: It would be pretty effective, but not perfectly so.

Indeed, it'd be pretty effective - in fact, one of the things that's a bit of a concern is that...maybe it might be too effective?

 

To paraphrase that mathing of this proposal, the chance of getting at least one single +20 Overpower given ten attempts is 89%. At least two: 62%.

 

Given two Controllers, our scenario would give us an effective 20 attempts in that same 50 second window, of which only about 2 need to hit that Overpower mark. So our numbers would look like this:

• Likelihood of no Overpower occurring in those 20 attempts = (4/5) ^ 20 = 1.15%
  • Likelihood of at least one Overpower occurring = 98.85%
• Likelihood of exactly one Overpower occurring in these 20 attempts: 6%
• Likelihood of at least two Overpowers occurring = likelihood of at least one Overpower occurring - chance of exactly one Overpower = 92.85%

[Blackfeather]

5 hours ago, Naraka said:

I'm not sure why you would tag me as I'm not a huge fan of Controllers... Not a fan of the power combination (control/support) but I do have a couple, the highest a 41 ice/TA.

 

Personally, I think control needs a rework along with kill-time, AoE saturation and overall foe threat. A lot of things play into a lot of issues with other things and dominators are a whole other beast, perma-dom in particular.

 

But putting the idea in a vacuum and only concerning bringing controller closer to dominators in control, random "crits" are probably not going to work as well, IMO. Control isn't DPS where you can stand to get lucky bursts that add up or getting overkill damage doesn't feel as disheartening as locking down a target that dies at the same time.

 

If you want something more controlable, what about just giving controller is own version of domination that only powers up the next primary power (an over power button) that adds mag depending on who you target.

 

Or to make it more simple, have your AoE controls behave differently on a controller where the actual target gets additional mag depending on the target (sans the AoE immob). 

 

I also had a thought about a "focus" button/mechanic where it'd take the next AoE control (like the AoE hold) and turn it into a single target power but all the potential control is applied to that 1 target (16 targets worth). Sounds like a lot but it still requires you to wait for that long cool down. The concept being a person turning an entire city block into an ice cube to hold one strong target.

Hey there! To clarify, I kind of wanted a view on how "powerful" this proposal might be, especially since it seems like you're fairly experienced with Dominators and the like. I didn't want this proposal to step on the other control archetype's toes, you know?

 

Thank you for your viewpoint, it's definitely interesting - I myself thought the idea of continual attempts to lock down an enemy as something appealing...but that's of course subjective, and it's nice to see another side of that.

 

Basically, Overwhelming Overpower was kind of designed to emulate the Controller "focusing" their powers on a target, so that one might eventually "spike" and become much stronger than usual. It's definitely pretty neat that we both came to visualise something like that, but came to a different conclusion on how to implement something like that!

[Blackfeather]

Also, hello @Luminara! I noticed you talking about the binary nature of status effects over here, and it's definitely something that this proposal for Controllers wants to (at least in part) address. While Overwhelming Overpower isn't something overarching full revamp of the system in place (there are some parts of it I do like), it does tip the favour towards the Controller to some degree. As such, I'd definitely be interested in hearing your thoughts about it!

[Steampunkette]

10 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

Indeed, it'd be pretty effective - in fact, one of the things that's a bit of a concern is that...maybe it might be too effective?

 

To paraphrase that mathing of this proposal, the chance of getting at least one single +20 Overpower given ten attempts is 89%. At least two: 62%.

 

Given two Controllers, our scenario would give us an effective 20 attempts in that same 50 second window, of which only about 2 need to hit that Overpower mark. So our numbers would look like this:

• Likelihood of no Overpower occurring in those 20 attempts = (4/5) ^ 20 = 1.15%
  • Likelihood of at least one Overpower occurring = 98.85%
• Likelihood of exactly one Overpower occurring in these 20 attempts: 6%
• Likelihood of at least two Overpowers occurring = likelihood of at least one Overpower occurring - chance of exactly one Overpower = 92.85%

I feel like having a 60% chance to lock down an AV during the Purple Triangle Window (But only if you're stacking controls -fast-) for a brief time ('Cause duration is still a thing and mez resist is separate from protection) is a good goal to try and aim for. It allows Controllers to actually do their absolute damage mitigation function.

 

That said, getting a group of controllers together to completely shit on every AV could get pretty boring.

[CrudeVileTerror]

A potentially counter to that is to have Overpower also apply a "Grant Power" effect to Archvillain Rank enemies, which grants them additional Status Protection for a few seconds after Overpower wears off.  The more Controllers Overpowering a single target at once, the bigger the temporary immunity becomes when the Overpower duration ends.

[SaddestGhost]

On 10/22/2020 at 8:23 AM, Blackfeather said:

Going to be pinging @SaddestGhost for their thoughts on this proposal - hey there again! I recall your feedback on some of my previous suggestions, and they definitely were quite well thought out and reasoned; I get the feeling that you've got a fair amount of experience with both Controllers and Dominators under your belt.

 

As such, I'd love to hear any opinions you might have on this new proposal, which is meant to help provide Controllers with the ability to lock down AVs/GMs, somewhat circumventing the binary nature of status effects (which you've mentioned in the past). Any thoughts on this proposal - too powerful, too weak, would do something different, something else entirely? Looking forward to your opinions!

From my understanding, your proposal boils down to "What if a controller could Overpower any mob?"  I don't think there's anything in that which would shift the game balance overwhelmingly, particularly in the damage focused environment of the current game.  The one thing I would also throw into consideration is the duration of the Overpower effects.  Rather than making the chance for Overpower dramatically lower (I feel your original proposal is a bit too low), perhaps it should be shorter lived on harder targets.   A mixture of a lower chance and a lower overall duration with the higher magnitude could strike an appealing balance.

 

I'm just tossing out some numbers for illustration:

 

Rank	Chance for OP	Duration as % of base	Additional Magnitude
Minion	35%	150%	+1
Lieutenant	30%	120%	+1
Bosss	25%	100%	+1
Elite Boss	10%	50%	+6
Archvillian	5%	10%	+50

 

The way I imagine that playing out is that occasionally a controller operating on their own would be able to hold an AV, but for a very brief duration (2-4 seconds).    Additionally, this would give Overpower some utility when it hits a minion or lieutenant by extending the duration of the hold.  Ideally, you could even tweak the numbers for individual powers with a lower chance on spammable single target holds and a significantly higher chance on AoE controls that are more difficult to stack.

 

In my dream scenario controlling an AV would be less about stacking magnitude and more about cycling through different types of controls.  I've always imagined it as the PToD cycling through different periods of protection, but I think there is a better solution somewhat akin to the PVP mechanics as mentioned up thread.  If an AV essentially became immune to a hold for some period after one lands, you could then use a stun or confuse.  It would require some careful coordination to keep an AV locked down and utilize powers like Flashfire which typically have no use in AV fight now.  Of course, there's the issue of triggering those protections unintentionally through powers where they're only a secondary effect.  Overall, I think it would be more interesting and dynamic play.

[CrudeVileTerror]

Bear in mind that it should automatically be shorter on the harder targets due to Control Status Resistance also being a thing.

[Luminara]

15 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

Also, hello @Luminara! I noticed you talking about the binary nature of status effects over here, and it's definitely something that this proposal for Controllers wants to (at least in part) address. While Overwhelming Overpower isn't something overarching full revamp of the system in place (there are some parts of it I do like), it does tip the favour towards the Controller to some degree. As such, I'd definitely be interested in hearing your thoughts about it!

 

What I have in mind doesn't really fit with your suggestion.  I'd go the other way entirely, changing the way status effects are applied, using debuffs instead of hard mez (Slows would stack or scale to become Immobilizes, -Recharge would stack or scale to become Hold, -ToHit would stack or scale to become Stuns, -Damage would stack or scale to become Sleeps, and so forth.  these are just examples of possible ways it could be implemented) by critters and every archetype except controllers and dominators, effectively reducing status effects throughout the entire game.  I'm looking at from the other side of the fence, from the critters side, not the archetype side, as a means of reducing the over-use of status effects by critters while still keeping them challenging and interesting, and giving players more opportunity to deal with status effects, rather than making half the archetypes nobles and the other half beggars.

 

Really, it's never going to go anywhere.  It would be a complete rework of every critter with mez, and a new mechanic (well, almost a mechanic) to create the change from debuff to mez, and removal and replacement of existing mez in power sets outside of controller and dominator primaries and secondaries.  The HC team will never have the time or resources to do it, and I'm on a refurb laptop in an off-grid cabin, so I definitely don't have the resources to do it.

 

So... I'm just not a fan of increasing the strength of status effects on any archetype, not even controllers, because it's just escalation.  The more there is, the more there will be, and the more will be needed later.  I'd rather see status effects diminished in prevalence and controller/dominator status effects be more meaningful.  That is to say, instead of making a way to overcome the PToD, make the PToD less necessary.  I think the control archetypes could be more unique this way, and have full usage of their powers, instead of being penalized for doing what they were created to do.

[Blackfeather]

12 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

I feel like having a 60% chance to lock down an AV during the Purple Triangle Window (But only if you're stacking controls -fast-) for a brief time ('Cause duration is still a thing and mez resist is separate from protection) is a good goal to try and aim for. It allows Controllers to actually do their absolute damage mitigation function.

 

That said, getting a group of controllers together to completely shit on every AV could get pretty boring.

I'm personally inclined towards a number around or below 50% myself in terms of reliability...but the method I went about also made one-shots against AVs a possibility, while this proposal has a +20 magnitude, so all in all, it probably does similar-ish results, but I can't math it out unfortunately, hahah!

 

Though that being said, it does bring up some things to think about: an unenhanced level 50 Hold on a Controller is 22.35 seconds - the duration of Overpower is half that, and that isn't even factoring in the Purple Patch.

 

Perhaps the duration of Overpower ought to be looked at as well? Maybe bumping it up to 3/4 of the duration instead of half.

[Blackfeather]

12 hours ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

A potentially counter to that is to have Overpower also apply a "Grant Power" effect to Archvillain Rank enemies, which grants them additional Status Protection for a few seconds after Overpower wears off.  The more Controllers Overpowering a single target at once, the bigger the temporary immunity becomes when the Overpower duration ends.

Oh! Similar to the PvP mechanics of having opponents be immune to the control that locked them down previously, but toned down a bit? I think @EmperorSteele mentioned something like that a little while back. That definitely might be interesting!

 

While my original proposal might be a tad complex, I do think the lower chance to one-shot an AV does better scale than a flat +20 magnitude. For instance, given the whole Purple Triangles scenario I brought up before:

• 20% chance for +20 Mag Overpower, 2 Controllers, likelihood of 2+ Overpowers in that 50 second period = 92.85% (as seen here)
• 5% chance for 50+ Mag Overpower, 2 Controllers likelihood of 1+ Overpower in that 50 second period = 64%
  • (19/20) ^ 20 = 36% chance of no Overpower given 20 attempts

And then of course when more Controllers above that are added, I figure their cumulative magnitude would have been enough to exceed an AV's protection anyhow.

[Blackfeather]

2 hours ago, SaddestGhost said:

From my understanding, your proposal boils down to "What if a controller could Overpower any mob?"  I don't think there's anything in that which would shift the game balance overwhelmingly, particularly in the damage focused environment of the current game.  The one thing I would also throw into consideration is the duration of the Overpower effects.  Rather than making the chance for Overpower dramatically lower (I feel your original proposal is a bit too low), perhaps it should be shorter lived on harder targets.   A mixture of a lower chance and a lower overall duration with the higher magnitude could strike an appealing balance.

Yup! Per my original post, I was inspired (ripped off) by saving throws in D&D - no enemies are truly immune to status effects there, even if it takes a high 'saving throw' to overcome those protections for stronger targets. That's why I decided to go the route I went, with lower chances of an Overwhelming Overpower that could affect stronger targets.

 

That being said, definitely important to keep @CrudeVileTerror's mention of the Purple Patch in mind; if anything, I'm beginning to wonder if the duration of an Overpower is too short at the moment to be tangibly effective...but then, maybe no adjustment to that'd be needed if we manage to strike a nice balance for Overwhelming Overpower in the first place, I suppose.

4 hours ago, SaddestGhost said:

In my dream scenario controlling an AV would be less about stacking magnitude and more about cycling through different types of controls.  I've always imagined it as the PToD cycling through different periods of protection, but I think there is a better solution somewhat akin to the PVP mechanics as mentioned up thread.  If an AV essentially became immune to a hold for some period after one lands, you could then use a stun or confuse.  It would require some careful coordination to keep an AV locked down and utilize powers like Flashfire which typically have no use in AV fight now.  Of course, there's the issue of triggering those protections unintentionally through powers where they're only a secondary effect.  Overall, I think it would be more interesting and dynamic play.

I've actually thought up something similar in my original post! If you check the +Chance to Overpower section, I wondered if there ought to be a mechanic to increase the likelihood of an Overpower occurring, one idea incorporating the use of stacking a variety of status effects on an enemy, even if they weren't affected by it (amongst other potential ways of handling it). Would definitely be interested in hearing your thoughts on that, especially since it does seem like the base numbers proposed were a bit low.

[Blackfeather]

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

What I have in mind doesn't really fit with your suggestion.  I'd go the other way entirely, changing the way status effects are applied, using debuffs instead of hard mez (Slows would stack or scale to become Immobilizes, -Recharge would stack or scale to become Hold, -ToHit would stack or scale to become Stuns, -Damage would stack or scale to become Sleeps, and so forth.  these are just examples of possible ways it could be implemented) by critters and every archetype except controllers and dominators, effectively reducing status effects throughout the entire game.  I'm looking at from the other side of the fence, from the critters side, not the archetype side, as a means of reducing the over-use of status effects by critters while still keeping them challenging and interesting, and giving players more opportunity to deal with status effects, rather than making half the archetypes nobles and the other half beggars.

 

Really, it's never going to go anywhere.  It would be a complete rework of every critter with mez, and a new mechanic (well, almost a mechanic) to create the change from debuff to mez, and removal and replacement of existing mez in power sets outside of controller and dominator primaries and secondaries.  The HC team will never have the time or resources to do it, and I'm on a refurb laptop in an off-grid cabin, so I definitely don't have the resources to do it.

Oh, that's quite alright - thought it might have been interesting to hear your thoughts anyhow, and indeed it was! My original conception of this proposal was actually kind of system-changing myself, but the scope of it became kind of too hard for me to properly grasp, leading to the far narrower proposal that it is now...though even that's managed to prompt a lot of discussion, which I'm very happy about.

 

Status effects against players can indeed be a little binary. Indeed, I believe @Bill Z Bubba mentioned this in one of their posts a while back. I'm not quite sure there's many changes that can be made that'd help resolve this, outside of changing the enemies themselves or something like that, however. As it is, on more fragile characters, I'll tend to try and prevent getting hit in the first place, either by defeating target enemies first (on my Blaster), or locking them down as soon as possible. Only qualm with that is against enemies that are more durable, or have innate protection against controls (e.g. The Lost Anathemas).

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

So... I'm just not a fan of increasing the strength of status effects on any archetype, not even controllers, because it's just escalation.  The more there is, the more there will be, and the more will be needed later.  I'd rather see status effects diminished in prevalence and controller/dominator status effects be more meaningful.  That is to say, instead of making a way to overcome the PToD, make the PToD less necessary.  I think the control archetypes could be more unique this way, and have full usage of their powers, instead of being penalized for doing what they were created to do.

Definitely understandable, that - I didn't want this change to be overly overpowering (despite its titled proposal). That being said, I actually envisioned Overwhelming Overpower as less of "power escalation" and more "providing status effects with a sliding scale of effectiveness". My reasoning here is that while debuffs/damage all smoothly scale against stronger enemies (i.e. they do less), they still have some effect. Magnitude makes the effectiveness of status effects not matter...up to a point, at which they tip the scales the other way.

 

So basically, Overwhelming Overpower's an attempt to provide status effects with something that the other mechanics of combat already have out of the box: a smoother scale of effectiveness.

[Blackfeather]

Also, given @capricorpse's experience with Dominator's, I'd definitely be interested in hearing your thoughts on this proposal for Controllers! I wanted to give the archetype a way of locking down larger targets, similar but different to the Dominator's Domination inherent. However, I definitely didn't want this proposal to overshadow the other Control archetype. Would love to hear what you think about Overwhelming Overpower - is it too powerful in comparison to what Dominators have, in a similar ballpark, or something else entirely?

[Blackfeather]

On 10/25/2020 at 3:17 PM, Steampunkette said:

It would, however, often result in completely irrelevant overpower. Most of your "+100 Overpower!!!" uses would happen on minions, lieutenants, and bosses which could make the RNG incredibly annoying to some players. And make most of the power increase invisible due to the low proc-chance on a boss.

Oh! Oh! I just had another thought, one that was inspired in part by @CrudeVileTerror's suggestion about a "resolve" mechanic to help get rid of the whole "waste" of super high Overpowers.

 

What if an Overwhelming Overpower ended up instantly defeating lieutenants and below? Not sure about the logistics of it all, but I'm thinking in instances where a Mag 50 control and above potentially occurs on minions, where it'd be "wasted", maybe it'd make sense to consider them defeated anyhow (maybe extend to the Mag 7 Overpower for just minions?). This is probably totally overpowered because I just thought about this...but it might be interesting.

 

With the current probability tables, it's going to be more likely that weaker enemies will be downed by the damage of a status effect inducing power than them being instantly defeated, but in the rare-ish occasions that it occurs...well. Instant defeat sounds pretty satisfying, I think!

 

As a bonus, it even gives Sleeps the rare chance to take down enemies properly in groups - pinging @CaptainLupis since they mentioned about how conditional the status effect was.

 

Oh! Maybe @Sovera might be interested in this suggestion as well too, since this basically gives the Controller the chance to instantly defeat weaker mobs in their own, lockdown-ish way. Similarly, I think @BitCook and @Uun mentioned that they had qualms with how quickly things were defeated for controls to have an impact in the late-game. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this!

Edited October 29, 2020 by Blackfeather

[CrudeVileTerror]

Another possible idea is that Mag over (let's saaaaay) twice the Threshold for application gets converted to either raw damage or some -Res Debuff.

ie:   Hit a Lt. with Mag 50 Hold, and the Lt. takes 30% HP damage instead.  (Numbers not backed by any kind of math, just random for the sake of expressing the idea.)

[honoroit]

1 minute ago, Blackfeather said:

Oh! Oh! I just had another thought, one that was inspired in part by @CrudeVileTerror's suggestion about a "resolve" mechanic to help get rid of the whole "waste" of super high Overpowers.

 

What if an Overwhelming Overpower ended up instantly defeating lieutenants and below? Not sure about the logistics of it all, but I'm thinking in instances where a Mag 50 control and above potentially occurs on minions, where it'd be "wasted", maybe it'd make sense to consider them defeated anyhow (maybe extend to the Mag 6 Overpower for just minions?). This is probably totally overpowered because I just thought about this...but it might be interesting.

 

With the current probability tables, it's going to be more likely that weaker enemies will be downed by the damage of a status effect inducing power than them being instantly defeated, but in the rare-ish occasions that it occurs...well. Instant defeat sounds pretty satisfying, I think!

 

As a bonus, it even gives Sleeps the rare chance to take down enemies properly in groups - pinging @CaptainLupis since they mentioned about how conditional the status effect was.

 

Oh! Maybe @Sovera might be interested in this suggestion as well too, since this basically gives the Controller the chance to instantly defeat weaker mobs in their own, lockdown-ish way. Similarly, I think @BitCook and @Uun mentioned that they had qualms with how quickly things were defeated for controls to have an impact in the late-game. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this!

This is fine (imo) as long as you lose the xp share, as with confuse. 

 

Perhaps better would be to apply a %health dot, that does the trick, and one that won't break sleep.

 

You're so CCd, you stopped breathing / were locked in time to point where shearing force of that, when existing in space that is not, caused damage to your corporeal form. 

[Blackfeather]

2 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

Another possible idea is that Mag over (let's saaaaay) twice the Threshold for application gets converted to either raw damage or some -Res Debuff.

ie:   Hit a Lt. with Mag 50 Hold, and the Lt. takes 30% HP damage instead.  (Numbers not backed by any kind of math, just random for the sake of expressing the idea.)

That definitely might be interesting too! I don't know much in the way of formulas for something like that, but I figured that, like a certain thread has said (*waves to @Troo*), defeat is the strongest mez there is...so a high enough magnitude of any status effect via Overwhelming Overpower could potentially become deadly for weaker enemies.

 

A Dominate rips through a feeble mind, a Char leaves an enemy completely choked out, a Mesmerize leaves a guy brain dead...etc.

[honoroit]

^ immediate dmg per cruel, as opposed to a % based dot doom, is better imo. Punchy. Always punchy! 

[Blackfeather]

26 minutes ago, honoroit said:

^ immediate dmg per cruel, as opposed to a % based dot doom, is better imo. Punchy. Always punchy! 

For sure! Overwhelming Overpower ought to be impactful regardless of where it lands, per @Steampunkette's mention of it potentially being wasted against a minion or a lieutenant, who don't usually need it. So having some other effect on them makes sense I think...and defeat is the strongest mez. 🙂

 

Or any other secondary effect that might work nicely, but not sure of what they could be.

[Blackfeather]

Oh! Almost forgot to ping @EmperorSteele about this new proposal too - I recall you wishing to add damage to Controllers, so I'd definitely be interested in hearing your thoughts on the addition to Overwhelming Overpower I made above. Got any ideas for alternative effects, etc.? Is it too powerful? Something else entirely?