Possibility of Opening up the Code of Conduct to Discussion

[Agent X-49]

Just a question for the HC devs, GMs, community at large: Is there any interest in having a dialogue around the rules within COC? Specifically what is and isn't allowed? I can sleep well at night either way, but in my opinion the community would be better served by having a COC that, while appropriate, doesn't outwardly censor large swathes of topics as a band-aid for preventing the "Troll Wars" (tm). For instance, politics (large umbrella term that I'm still confused about) is often shutdown even during polite conversations (as it seemingly violates COC) but people can say the most sexually offensive stuff in general, or in social settings (looking at you, Pocket D) etc., so I feel like there are double standards at work here.

 

Any thoughts? Just spit-ballin' here.

Edited October 7, 2020 by VOODOONUT

[ShardWarrior]

I will preface with there are a number of things in the CoC that I disagree with.  Most rules I agree with while others I find utterly absurd.  With that said, in my opinion these servers are ultimately the responsibility of the Homecoming staff and it is for them to decide what the rules should be.  We all have the choice to either accept and abide by them or not and should we choose not to, we have to accept the consequences.  If you do not like the rules here, there are other servers to try.

[Agent X-49]

Edit: Noticed I said TOC instead of COC. My bad. Edited above.

 

Just wanted to clarify my intent: This post is a slight probe into seeing if HC staff would be open to community input for COC. I certainly don't deny that the buck stops with them.

Edited October 7, 2020 by VOODOONUT
typos! typos everywhere!

[Greycat]

Honestly, there's reason for them to be somewhat vague. Namely that there are people who like having defined lines so they can push them or get as close as possible to them intentionally and then waste mod time arguing that they didn't go *over* that line, they were just half-a-hair's-width away from it, while still upsetting or attacking people who would otherwise be covered *by* that umbrella.

 

And that's not uncommon. Yes, it leaves a lot up to moderator judgement, but overall it's probably less headache for everyone involved. Especially with our smaller, volunteer team.

 

As far as what you're talking about? If it's an issue, report it. General is... frankly a cesspool I completely remove, at least from the times I've looked into it. Depending on the sexual content, it may *be* covered by the COC. Or it may be a slip in a conversation going public between two people consenting to said conversation. (Frankly, it's another minefield.)

[Agent X-49]

7 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Honestly, there's reason for them to be somewhat vague. Namely that there are people who like having defined lines so they can push them or get as close as possible to them intentionally and then waste mod time arguing that they didn't go *over* that line, they were just half-a-hair's-width away from it, while still upsetting or attacking people who would otherwise be covered *by* that umbrella.

 

And that's not uncommon. Yes, it leaves a lot up to moderator judgement, but overall it's probably less headache for everyone involved. Especially with our smaller, volunteer team.

 

As far as what you're talking about? If it's an issue, report it. General is... frankly a cesspool I completely remove, at least from the times I've looked into it. Depending on the sexual content, it may *be* covered by the COC. Or it may be a slip in a conversation going public between two people consenting to said conversation. (Frankly, it's another minefield.)

I agree with nearly everything you say here. However, I have also seen people swing the CoC around in general like a hammer (not GMs, players). This becomes confusing when things like "controversial politics" are non-descriptive in their coverage. To be fair, I actually rarely see a GM intervene unless things get WAYYY out of hand, and I greatly appreciate that. I would just rather not feel like other players in the community have the power to shutdown open discussions while the discussion is being had politely, even if it relates to IRL real-world events. Hopefully that makes sense. Again, I agree with nearly everything in your post, and in Shard Warrior's above as well, but being open to improvements makes any community strong, in my opinion.

[ShardWarrior]

Unless this is taking place on a privately created channel, then people cannot silence others on a public "official" game channel.   Should anyone see something in public chat that they believe violates the rules then they should use the in-game petition system and have a GM look into it, or use the ignore feature. 

Edited October 7, 2020 by ShardWarrior

[FrauleinMental]

Ultimately, the CoC isn't up for discussion or negotiation.  Take it or leave it.  As far as I've seen, the CoC is there mostly to give GMs the space to keep the trolls under their respective bridges.  And there's some legal room to maneuver because, well, you never know.

 

I've seen plenty of political discussion on General chat (and, for that matter, on other channels), but I thankfully there's plenty of other stuff to do in-game.  Don't be a troll and the GMs won't treat you like a troll; at least that's my sense of it.  Always remember that you're never going to convert new followers through internet debate.

 

I prefer to leave the "real" world out of this world; it's even part of my main's backstory.

[Agent X-49]

5 minutes ago, FrauleinMental said:

Ultimately, the CoC isn't up for discussion or negotiation.  Take it or leave it.  As far as I've seen, the CoC is there mostly to give GMs the space to keep the trolls under their respective bridges.  And there's some legal room to maneuver because, well, you never know.

 

I've seen plenty of political discussion on General chat (and, for that matter, on other channels), but I thankfully there's plenty of other stuff to do in-game.  Don't be a troll and the GMs won't treat you like a troll; at least that's my sense of it.  Always remember that you're never going to convert new followers through internet debate.

 

I prefer to leave the "real" world out of this world; it's even part of my main's backstory.

I'm not sure there's much more I can add to this discussion without repeating myself. I just want to say that I never approach any discussion (in-game or out) hoping to 'convert' anyone. I approach good-faith discussions willing to listen and be heard. Most of the time I leave those discussions having learned something. That is all. I merely think it would continue to improve our community to have open discussions around improving it.

Edited October 7, 2020 by VOODOONUT
*Zoidberg voice* always with the typos!

[ShardWarrior]

To be honest, I do not see Homecoming allowing discussions on whether politics or religion or other "hot topics" will be allowed to go into the CoC.  Nor should they in my opinion.

[Jimmy]

39 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Honestly, there's reason for them to be somewhat vague. Namely that there are people who like having defined lines so they can push them or get as close as possible to them intentionally and then waste mod time arguing that they didn't go *over* that line, they were just half-a-hair's-width away from it, while still upsetting or attacking people who would otherwise be covered *by* that umbrella.

 

And that's not uncommon. Yes, it leaves a lot up to moderator judgement, but overall it's probably less headache for everyone involved. Especially with our smaller, volunteer team.

This covers our position pretty well. We're always open to feedback, but I don't think the kind of changes you're after are likely to happen.

[Agent X-49]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

This covers our position pretty well. We're always open to feedback, but I don't think the kind of changes you're after are likely to happen.

It's unfortunate that the worst offenders ruin open discussion for the rest of us, but I will, of course, honor HC team's decisions. Good luck out there ya'll.

[Razor Cure]

Not related to the code of conduct as such..but..in the last few weeks, on Torchbearer, there was that gang of people Protesting in Oro. A friend knew one of em, and he did something against the ToS or whatever. But the other person apparently (it said in the bio) got banner for sharing an account? Or something or that nature. I forget the actual thing. But it struck me as super silly, when ANYONE can go ahead and make alt accouts and dual box em.

 

I roped another friend into playing, and I was going to log into her account, and do her IOs (as she has no clue). THAT would be a bannable offence?

[Grouchybeast]

4 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

I roped another friend into playing, and I was going to log into her account, and do her IOs (as she has no clue). THAT would be a bannable offence?

Well, it's technically against the Code of Conduct, so I guess it could be.  But the best way to get an answer would be to open a Support ticket via the link at the top of the page, and ask the GMs directly.

[Jimmy]

6 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

I roped another friend into playing, and I was going to log into her account, and do her IOs (as she has no clue). THAT would be a bannable offence?

Nobody has been banned for just account sharing - but you are responsible for anyone that logs into your account, and any actions they take (including evading their own ban).

[Troo]

On 10/7/2020 at 2:08 PM, Agent X-49 said:

open discussions while the discussion is being had politely, even if it relates to IRL real-world events.

Topics discussed especially in server wide chat channels are had at our own risk.

We have the option to use tells, teams, bases, or set up a private channel if we choose. Even then, it can be subject to review and result in discretionary action.

 

For this purpose (as someone already said) the broader and more vague the better.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Troo

[Razor Cure]

14 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Nobody has been banned for just account sharing - but you are responsible for anyone that logs into your account, and any actions they take (including evading their own ban).

Thanks for clarifying that Jimmy! There was obviously more too it.

[Solarverse]

On 10/7/2020 at 5:21 PM, ShardWarrior said:

 people cannot silence others on a public "official" game channel.  

OH YES I CAN!!!

 

/deletes General Channel

See! I have successfully silenced every damn last one of them! Muh hahahahaha!   😈

[golstat2003]

3 hours ago, Solarverse said:

OH YES I CAN!!!

 

/deletes General Channel

See! I have successfully silenced every damn last one of them! Muh hahahahaha!   😈

Pretty much this. You can type anything you want as long as it's not against the COC, doesn't mean I have to read it. LOL

[Myrmidon]

Homecoming servers, Homecoming rules. They will notify us if they would like our input and that’s fine by me.