Focused Feedback: Blaster Secondary Revamp

[zenblack]

Testing TA I have to say that I 100% hate the range change to Electrified Net Arrow. Even with Range boosters, because its ranged was dumped so hard, it really affects how it plays. If you are not going to give me a decent ST super proccable melee attack like other blaster secondary sets, don't tether me down.

 

Ice Arrow also is nerfed hard enough to notice.

Edited October 24, 2020 by zenblack

[kelika2]

Quote

 

Screw my fire/arrow corr.  fire/arrow blaster all the way now.

 

Everything must burn.  And burn some more.  and flame epic pool to make burn more.

[Shadowflare]

Dunno if this has been said yet but if you're touching Ninja Training, consider making Kuji-In Toh auto or toggle? It by default has a longer duration than it's CD.

[ScarySai]

I can't say I notice the range reduction on Tac's immob that much, with the range boosts from snipe in mind.

 

I don't really agree with the changes to blaster mezzes overall, but at least my one character I really made use of it on, my water/atomic/fire, can still lock down bosses without issues. AVs might be a bit harder now.

 

While I'll miss the raw mobility from Tac arrow's Gymnastics + CJ, it's hard to argue against the set being way stronger now with the inclusion of oil slick arrow. Glue arrow is still awesome, EMP arrow was always just a filler AOE with procs for me, Ice arrow was neat for exempting but I rarely used it except for pure meme value.

Edited October 24, 2020 by ScarySai

[Nemu]

22 minutes ago, Eva Destruction said:

I take them because it's damage that keeps ticking while I'm attacking, and it's a place to put a damage set.

The latter is probably more relevant than the former. I just ran around PI with dynamo on and played around with some level 43 mobs to get a gauge of how dynamo contributes to my damage.

 

Against a level 43 minion it takes 2 flares to kill it, with dynamo on it still takes 2 flares to kill it because I don't have time to wait for Dynamo to do its thing. Against real threats kill speed matters even more.  I'm sure AoE starved blasters will appreciate damage auras if they have the nerve to go into melee, but most blasters have enough AoE to wipe out fodder. And if we are talking about going toe to toe with multiple bosses, it will take a lot of ticks to to match the amount of damage you can throw out with a fireball, and the reality is that you will still use blaze to kill off that boss with 60 hp left instead of of giving it 2 more seconds to kill you. I can see the spreadsheet warriors talking about how auras contribute a significant percentage of damage on farms/etc but the reality is that we ain't got time for dat.

 

Whether you agree with me on this or not is inconsequential, I think we both agree that the changes to /elec is not good and that's what matters 😁

 

I'd much rather Dynamo had a useful secondary debuff effect than damage. But I'd much prefer if they just put FOT back in that slot and make it a toggle sustain with a click component to satisfy the camp that dislikes FOT for being a click.

[gamingglen]

"The game is balanced around hasten. Most ATs and power sets really need the fighting pool."

 

Neither of these are true. 

[Generator]

@Nemu, Dynamo is doing everything it ever did as a damage aura toggle in its previous incarnation as Lightning Field.  Its big change is that the +Regen/Recov that had been in Force of Thunder got moved here.

 

And I for one welcome this.  Force of Thunder was a damned ungainly way to use one's Sustain power, this is tons better.

 

Thanks Devs! 👍

[Mystic Fortune]

14 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

I can't say I notice the range reduction on Tac's immob that much, with the range boosts from snipe in mind.

 

I don't really agree with the changes to blaster mezzes overall, but at least my one character I really made use of it on, my water/atomic/fire, can still lock down bosses without issues. AVs might be a bit harder now.

 

While I'll miss the raw mobility from Tac arrow's Gymnastics + CJ, it's hard to argue against the set being way stronger now with the inclusion of oil slick arrow. Glue arrow is still awesome, EMP arrow was always just a filler AOE with procs for me, Ice arrow was neat for exempting but I rarely used it except for pure meme value.

So I just logged onto my Archery/TA Blaster on Brainstorm, and am able to stack Gymnastics and Combat Jumping...

[ScarySai]

4 minutes ago, Mystic Fortune said:

So I just logged onto my Archery/TA Blaster on Brainstorm, and am able to stack Gymnastics and Combat Jumping...

I just logged in to verify, good god I hope that's not a bug.

 

EDIT: Spoke too soon, it lost the +jump, which was the part I really liked.

Edited October 24, 2020 by ScarySai

[latera]

Came here to say thank you for getting rid of the sustain from FOT and moving it to a toggle and to talk about Shinobi being potentially broken.

 

FOT change:  This was SO NEEDED.  To everyone who doesn't like this I'm confused...your sustain is now on a passive damage tick that you can slot like 5 (YES FIVE) damage procs in!  plus you get to keep your aoe stun as a second power.  This change is important if you actually care about doing DPS on your blaster rather than having to interrupt your attack chain to "rebuff" with FOT once it wears off...When I'm fighting an AV or GM (or just doing a pylon DPS test) why should I be forced to sacrifice a round of damage to keep my sustain active?

 

Shinobi change;  This is also AMAZING.  However, there seems to be odd interactions.  I made an archery/nin blaster just to see if shinobi's text meant that it "crits" on lethal damage attacks or just has a 20% proc for lethal damage.  Well archery attacks crit too.  Is this intentional and do all blaster primaries benefit from the crit chance/proc chance?  Secondly i take pets as much as possible so I grabbed summon spiderlings from mace mastery and THEY CRIT.  Is that intentional?  It's fun, it's awesome, and I feel OP as heck, but is it intentional?

 

Side note: all my toons are making a present opening animation on repeat every time i activate aim/build up or assault hybrid.  Any idea why this happens?  Even happens during combat lol (it's an uninterruptible animation that happens after every attack if assault hybrid is active).

[Eva Destruction]

Just now, Generator said:

@Nemu, Dynamo is doing everything it ever did as a damage aura toggle in its previous incarnation as Lightning Field.  Its big change is that the +Regen/Recov that had been in Force of Thunder got moved here.

 

And I for one welcome this.  Force of Thunder was a damned ungainly way to use one's Sustain power, this is tons better.

 

Thanks Devs! 👍

THe problem isn't that it's not doing what it did before, the problem is that it still only takes six slots.

 

Maybe I'm biased because of all the time I spent playing /SR and /SD on Scrappers, but I don't find the current FoT ungainly at all.

[WindDemon21]

1 hour ago, Vanden said:

I do think it would be better if Force of Thunder was 100% chance of knockdown rather than 30% chance of knockback, but having the sustain in Dynamo feels so much better to play for me.

Agreed, but this is all hinging on the necessity that it would not toggle off while mezzed.

[ScarySai]

Spoke too soon, they stack now, which is nice - though the combo lost the +jump stacking that I really liked.

 

Minor in the face of freakin' oil slick arrow, though.

 

I'm curious why time bomb wasn't touched at all, being one of the worst secondary powers even after the devices pass.

[MindOverMatter]

Comparing Strength of Blaster Sustain Values Across Secondaries
 

Are blaster secondary survival/sustain powers intended to provide varying strength when compared to secondaries offering the same type of sustain (Regen/absorb/etc)?

More specifically, is the consistent regeneration value provided by self-toggles such as Field Operative supposed to match the currently variable regeneration buff from Touch of the Beyond?

 

For context, Field Operative’s regen values do not diminish in strength when used against a higher level foe. It is self-contained. Touch of the Beyond’s regen values are still (as of this Beta) impacted by enemy level. Thus, TotB performs significantly weaker when used against higher-level foes.
 

As a caveat, I recognize that Drain Psyche is an outlier for comparative metrics. Drain Psyche, however, has a lower base value and higher performance ceiling based on number of targets.

[Chris24601]

43 minutes ago, zenblack said:

Testing TA I have to say that I 100% hate the range change to Electrified Net Arrow. Even with Range boosters, because its ranged was dumped so hard, it really affects how it plays.

It’s also a mainstay for a pure archery build because it’s got a damage type that’s actually strong against the things most resistant to lethal (undead and robots... both tend to be weak to energy).

 

Honestly, I use it more for the energy damage than I do the immobilize. I’d gladly trade immobilize duration (even non-perma without slotting) for bringing the range back up.

 

I’m talking “find a new main” levels of dissatisfaction with the range reduction. I’m fine nerfing other parts (recharge, end cost, damage, mag, duration), but range is THE reason to take tac arrow... to me it’s the set’s shtick in the same way DoT is fire’s, -to-hit is dark’s, and END drain/transfer is electric’s.

[Rejolt]

Tactical Arrow Gymnastics:

Recharge buff (20 percent)

Slow resist (40 percent, quite high actually)

Knockback and Knock Up protection (9 pts, again high for a blaster)

Defense 1.75 (standard)

Run speed (30 percent, fair)

Flight speed (13, wut?)

No Jump speed increase

No Jump height increase

No Hold protection

No Immobilize protection

 

EDIT: I am able to have CJ on with Gymnastics.

 

Seems to be missing jump speed and height (I know it's getting flight speed as an Agility bonus but still weird not to have jump increase in something called Gymnastics). Hold and Immob resist were bonkers good before and made gymnastics OP'd but it at least needs jump speed/height increases.

 

Also - request to make Leaping Acrobatics close to the old version of Gymnastics (and we can test in Beta if it's OP'd to have Acro and Gymnastics together).

EDIT: I think the upcoming Natural-themed Origin Pool has a Gymnastics-like power (if HC eventually uses it). In that case we need something that improves Acro (def debuff resist, upped hold/KB protect, etc.).

 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Rejolt

[Nemu]

28 minutes ago, Eva Destruction said:

THe problem isn't that it's not doing what it did before, the problem is that it still only takes six slots.

 

Maybe I'm biased because of all the time I spent playing /SR and /SD on Scrappers, but I don't find the current FoT ungainly at all.

The bigger issue is what they did to to the new FOT. Let's not warp the focus onto whether Dynamo is better than FOT as a sustain. That doesn't matter, focus on the new FOT itself.

 

Devs talk about incentivizing blasters to go into melee, and FOT as it is now is at a good place with risk vs reward. It worked well with thunderstrike to provide consistent mitigation for blasters that live in melee. This is no different than cycling energy torrent and explosive blast on an energy blaster, and the latter carries less risk due to it being ranged and the two powers cycle faster than FOT and TS.

 

Now you turn FOT into a late pick with a 90 second timer emphasizing it's ability to reliably stun. That's a huge nerf to FOT as far as myself and some others that have posted here are concerned. If you want to nerf FOT take the stun component away from the original version and I'd still prefer that to the new version.

[insome1]

9 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Tactical Arrow

•  Gymnastics (Replaces Agility)
  • Gymnastics and Agility have been merged into a new toggle power
  • Provides knockback protection, a 1.75% defence buff, a recharge bonus, a movement speed buff and some slow / mez protection
  • If you previously had Agility, you now have Gymnastics

 

Taking a look at the changes. Was there a reason the jump control was removed from the new merging of Gymnastics and Agility? Screenshots below of the stats.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by insome1

[Eva Destruction]

2 minutes ago, Nemu said:

The bigger issue is what they did to to the new FOT. Let's not warp the focus onto whether Dynamo is better than FOT as a sustain. That doesn't matter, focus on the new FOT itself.

 

Devs talk about incentivizing blasters to go into melee, and FOT as it is now is at a good place with risk vs reward. It worked well with thunderstrike to provide consistent mitigation for blasters that live in melee. This is no different than cycling energy torrent and explosive blast on an energy blaster, and the latter carries less risk due to it being ranged and the two powers cycle faster than FOT and TS.

 

Now you turn FOT into a late pick with a 90 second timer emphasizing it's ability to reliably stun. That's a huge nerf to FOT as far as myself and some others that have posted here are concerned. If you want to nerf FOT take the stun component away from the original version and I'd still prefer that to the new version.

Agree with everything you said here.

[Vanden]

9 minutes ago, Nemu said:

Let's not warp the focus onto whether Dynamo is better than FOT as a sustain. That doesn't matter, focus on the new FOT itself.

I'd say it definitely matters. Many players only used FoT for the sustain and couldn't care less about the control aspect. That's an equally valid perspective to have, and for them this is a major win.

[Moonlighter]

 

I spent time with playing a /Nin blaster using a build I deleted previously because Ninja wasn't good.

 

The melee attacks feel good. Powerful, Soaring Dragon hits like a truck, and the Lotus Drops is a fine, typical melee PBAoE. Thumbs up.

 

Immobilizing Dart seems out of place with the "Back Widow" wrist fire; Either a shuriken throw or a thrown dart like the starting power seems more appropriate. Any chance for an alternate animation?

 

The click sustain power, Kuji-in Toh, felt weak in missions. I was playing against even level Banished Pantheon with a smattering of defense (like 10%) and it was having trouble keeping up. It doesn't work like Absorb which starts the fight stacking a bit higher to dull initial attacks, so time to kill in strictly inferior to Absorb clicks and the power requires click management. To compensate maybe have it fire off a small heal and endurance boost when it fires?

 

Choking Powder seemed effective, and Blinding Powder played like I expected, but I have a lot of experience with that power and practice lining it up. Blinding Powder had its sleep boosted which is unfortunate in an AT that focuses on big AoEs. I would have rather seen an increased chance of confuse. Maybe 75%. Once you can slot it with contagion then it's sort of good.

 

After running /Ninj scrappers it seemed weird to not have extra movement in Shinobi. The character felt slow, but realize that's in comparison to another /Ninja experience.

 

I really disliked having my -Res for the set being in Smoke Flash. If I want to leverage it, I can't save that power for emergencies and running up to a foe and opening with Smoke Flash seems to me counter-intuitive to how the power's escape danger focus. Maybe have -Res in another power instead?

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Moonlighter

[Nemu]

1 minute ago, Vanden said:

I'd say it definitely matters. Many players only used FoT for the sustain and couldn't care less about the control aspect. That's an equally valid perspective to have, and for them this is a major win.

I'm fine if dynamo makes it to live, I'm not fine if the new FOT makes it to live, for reasons I have stated in my previous posts.

[Eva Destruction]

3 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I'd say it definitely matters. Many players only used FoT for the sustain and couldn't care less about the control aspect. That's an equally valid perspective to have, and for them this is a major win.

It's a minor QoL increase.  For players who used FoT for knockdown, it's a major lose.

[Rejolt]

I think Stalkers don't get the movement increase in their secondary (save for the t9). So there is precedent for /nin blasters not getting it either but I'm game for giving it to both ATs.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Rejolt

[Nemu]

2 minutes ago, Eva Destruction said:

It's a minor QoL increase.  For players who used FoT for knockdown, it's a major lose.

Doesn't have to be if they kept the recharge time on the new FOT and to hell with the stun component. Again, let's not focus on the sustain part and make this a Dynamo VS FOT discussion. This should be an Old FOT vs New FOT discussion.

 

You and I are on the same page about this, we just have to focus on FOT itself 😁