Focused Feedback: Other Powers Changes

[BrandX]

20 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

 

Since this seems super-specific to Ninja sets then, it just seems like an odd line in the sand. At the very least, given it is specific to Ninja, would it be possible to implement a sort of "the stronger movement buff stays" sort of deal instead of just one overriding the other?

 

Ninja and the Blaster Archery Secondary.  This is a change that just needs to go.  It's not needed.  It's not overpowered.  It's a tiny plus to the sets, that's all.

[ExeErdna]

On 11/1/2020 at 11:09 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Would make more sense to have Eagle's claw do splash damage kinda like stj aoe.

That'll make it a Targeted AOE which im perfectly fine with having Rangarok in there for a knockdown.

[ExeErdna]

I also do not agree with changes to movement especially with the beast/ninja run since we're unable to place IO/SO's to drop how hot they are it is a choice for people want to use such over picking more standardized movement option. I use beast and ninja run on characters where I really cannot fit a normal movement choice on there. Like my Dark/Savage Dom that uses beast and my Spider that uses ninja. In fact for the MA/SR stalker I was testing with I just use ninja because I really can't afford to drop in super speed or anything else. I even skipped combat jumping because I knew it didn't work with build I was going for. The stack for sprint w/ ninja(beast) is good because it is the lesser version it is hot, you have to build right and or have the right AT like a Dom so you're not punished for running hotter than normal. Since I like having the theme and the speed without it being overwhelming like how it is with SS or SJ personally. Ninja/Beast fit in the middle where yes you cannot modify anything yet it just seems to work right.

[Favandro]

guys please fix all old aura for melee tipe: wilpower ,dark armor ,ice aura,super reflex,fire aura this power are underpower in pvp …..

 

[Mezmera]

2 hours ago, ExeErdna said:

I also do not agree with changes to movement especially with the beast/ninja run since we're unable to place IO/SO's to drop how hot they are it is a choice for people want to use such over picking more standardized movement option. I use beast and ninja run on characters where I really cannot fit a normal movement choice on there. Like my Dark/Savage Dom that uses beast and my Spider that uses ninja. In fact for the MA/SR stalker I was testing with I just use ninja because I really can't afford to drop in super speed or anything else. I even skipped combat jumping because I knew it didn't work with build I was going for. The stack for sprint w/ ninja(beast) is good because it is the lesser version it is hot, you have to build right and or have the right AT like a Dom so you're not punished for running hotter than normal. Since I like having the theme and the speed without it being overwhelming like how it is with SS or SJ personally. Ninja/Beast fit in the middle where yes you cannot modify anything yet it just seems to work right.

Um unless I've misunderstood the change completely this change to movement powers does not affect how they currently are for a vast majority of AT's like dominators.  This change is specific to the AT's with a movement buff power in their "primary/secondary" which would not affect dominators in the slightest.  If you hadn't noticed they listed the 4 specific power sets that will be affected by this.  There's a few Origin Power pools still left to be ported in and I think they are adding one that'll specifically work well with these 4 power sets.  Just my thought but it does seem like there'll be a rhyme & reason.  

[Rejolt]

Is it a known issue that Travel sets won't work in blaster Shinobi yet?

[East Slide]

A few points to be taken with a grain of salt. 

 

Combat Jumping has the in "air control" that Shinobi-Ira lacks. Without CJ the nimble ninja becomes a clunky mid air nightmare. It wouldn't be terrible if Shinobi-Ira had the control but I'd personally have to keep CJ and accept the loss of movement. 

 

Whatever the reasoning may be ... Ninjitsu (Ninjutsu?) can't use Ninja Run??? Only set that hits up the p2w and loses. 

 

The Teleportation pool changes look great but it's a bit weird, for lack of a better word, to actually consider it on a movement enhanced set.

 

If these changes do happen it's not a huge hurdle that Ninjutsu will have to take Mystic Flight to get over I guess. It's a small small hurdle that may prove advantageous to take a leisurely stroll around perhaps. A tiny tiny bump in the road a ninja will require SJ to get over. A dip in the road that may cause... lol jk jk. 

 

Vote No. 

 

Thanks for your time. 

[drbuzzard]

Ok, copied my Shield defense/dark melee tanker to test, respecced and gave it a try. The build was made to get very close to perma soul drain, and it is within a few seconds -3 iirc).

 

Defenses are over capped positionally, and resistances are pretty good with 90% l/s and around 40% for most of the rest. It's very durable and does high damage. On live I have energy torrent for an extra AOE. On test I respecced out of energy torrent and into the new Touch of Fear. It was a nice upgrade. While I lost the ability to cause trouble at a distance, generally a tank is in the center of things so a ranged cone is hard to get value from. In my case the fact that ToF was a targeting AOE mean that the IOs could just transfer between the powers on the respec. Incarnate was agility radial, hybrid assault core, void radial, degenerative core interface, knives of vengance core.

 

As I've played this character plenty enough, I went straight into the solo ITF test at +1x6 (though I could have done x8 just as well). First mission was simple enough. ToF was a significant improvement when I had to clear out flunkies because they would just mob me. The PBAOE nature made it stack well with the wide tanker cone of shadow maul. It's funny, when I read the stats on it when respeccing, I felt it looked rather weak, but with all my inherent damage boosting and the fact cycle, it made for reasonably fast crowd clearance. I'm quite sure dark melee won't become any farming AOE flavor of the month any time soon, but it is a significant improvement.

 

So cleared that mission, and went onto mission 2 running it speed style, smashing crystals and ignoring everything else. With fairly good stacked defense (with excellent defense debuff resistance) and resistance I wasn't in much danger at any point. The siphon life was plenty to stay healthy. Smashed my way through that pretty fast.

 

On to mission 3, clearing the unstoppable EBs would take longer than I liked, but the Minos went down fine and the cyclopses just had to run out the power. The console took a while to beat down, though I was never in danger. The AVs were also no real trouble though I ended up with both on me as well as the aggro cap worth from the platform. This was a benefit though since it fueled against all odds and soul drain. Beat those down in a reasonable amount of time. I still wish ranged pets from lore had the sense of a squirrel and would stay at range.

 

In mission 4 I figured the main thing I was testing was the Touch of Fear change so I started on the towers and cleared one of them. It went quick enough with the fast cycle of SM/ToF and added sprinklings of shield charge.

 

On to the courtyard and Rommy. I cleared the couryard, again faster than before because of the ToF upgrade, and then accidentally pulled Rommy while collecting the EBs. Now the near autohit attack from the nicti actually meant I had to lean on the siphon life a lot, but it was sufficient . Eventually I beat down Rommy, but it took a while, and that was enough testing for the night.

 

Playing on a tanker the AOE changes to shadow maul were lessened and the touch of fear change worked rather well. I was able to beat down crowds faster than before, and without nearly as much positional issues as when I relied on energy torrent. It was a fairly minor change (only 2 powers) but it had a notable performance improvement in crowd clearance. I give it 2 thumbs up. I will say I'd probably agree that PBAOE IOs would make more sense in the power, but it didn't impact me in a negative fashion.

[Riverdusk]

Yep, some of these changes seem to be concentrating a lot on certain ideas strictly based on numbers or mechanical theories and "fun" is getting lost.  And I don't mean powers have to be OP to be fun.  More that taking away a rare fun different way to travel in game or being encouraged to spam the same power over and over again (the new touch of fear) is just mechanically not fun.  I'm a little surprised it was even acknowledge it was meant to be "spammy", which speaks to my point.

 

The shinobi change with regard to ninja run is just one of those changes that make the whole set much "less fun" and for no real reason.  It isn't like it is really affecting game balance in any significant way.  Ninja leaping around combined with shinobi is probably 90% of the reason I ever picked the Ninjitsu set on any of my characters.  Now with it not stacking it ends up being about the same as the P2W power anyone can get for free instead of being something better and cooler and more fun?  Really disappointing. It isn't like Ninjitsu set was even close to "most powerful" with it, and now it is just much less "fun" without it, so I kind of lose any interest in the whole set with this change. 

 

Back to touch of fear, I was originally excited by the change, but more and more I'm agreeing with @summers , no matter how "effective" or not the power is now, it is a spammy power that just isn't fun.  Even if less effective I agree with some of the others here that I'd rather just take an epic aoe attack as the extra attack on my dark melee.  I'll be sticking with energy torrent instead.  I'm also looking at the new energy melee enviously anyway.

 

 

[Siderous]

On the movement powers.  Secondary powers movement bonuses should stack with all travel powers period...  This change is a very poor decision, especially since the DEVs haven't explained the reasoning.  Show us how this broke or caused exploitation in the game or revert it back.  Changing something that everyone finds fun, just because you feel like it, is bad game management. 

 

Like everyone else, adding some umphf to NR by stacking, quickness, gymnastics, swift, lightning reflexes, or Shinobi is what made that power so fun.  

 

If you refuse to revert, then make NR and beast run a new auxiliary power pool that we can select and slot with jump and run enhancements.  

[Hew]

On 11/5/2020 at 11:57 PM, Riverdusk said:

Even if less effective I agree with some of the others here that I'd rather just take an epic aoe attack as the extra attack on my dark melee.  

An epic is end/late game content. ToF is up front, immediate use at very low levels. Totally different, and only tangentially related insomuch as they both (potentially) do damage. It is like comparing your tier 1 primary with your tier 7 secondary.

[Jimmy]

Build 3 - November 7th, 2020

 

Other Powers Changes (Focused Feedback Thread)

Dark Melee

•  Shadow Maul
  • Target cap reduced from 10 to 5 (16 to 10 for Tankers)
•  Touch of Fear
  • Now a melee targeted AoE with a 10 target cap (16 for Tankers)
  • Now deals negative energy damage over time
  • Fear duration reduced by roughly 50%
  • Cast time increased from 1.17s to 1.97s
  • Only the main target will be affected by the Fear and ToHit debuff
  • Now accepts Targeted AoE Damage sets
•  Taunt (Tanker / Brute)
  • Now has the correct icon border
• AE versions of these powers have been updated with missing powers and to match current power effects

Energy Assault

•  Whirling Hands
  • No longer yields double damage with Energy Focus active
  • Instead it will instantly recharge the power
•  Energy Focus
  • Previously Energy Focus could only be acquired once every 15 seconds, regardless of if you used it or not - you can now regain it again immediately after it has been spent
  • Cleaned up some timing issues
  • Now shows up on the buff bar
• AE versions of these powers have been updated with missing powers and to match current power effects

Kinetics

• All versions of the following powers have been converted from old pseudopet mechanics to new execute power mechanics
  •  Transfusion
  •  Siphon Power
  •  Transference
  •  Fulcrum Shift
• Player powers should notice no difference beyond faster application
• Some NPC powers may become weaker or stronger depending on their rank
• AE versions of these powers have been updated with missing powers and to match current power effects

Movement Buffs

• The following travel powers will suppress Primary/Secondary equivalent power travel buffs:
  •  Pool > Leaping > Combat Jumping
  •  Pool > Leaping > Super Jump
  •  Pool > Force of Will > Mighty Leap
  •  Pool > Speed > Super Speed
  •  Pool > Experimentation > Speed of Sound
  •  Prestige Travel > Ninja Run
  •  Prestige Travel > Beast Run
  •  Prestige Travel > Athletic Run
• Primary/Secondary powers impacted by this:
  •  Scrapper Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Sentinel Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Blaster Support > Ninja Training > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Blaster Support > Tactical Arrow > Gymnastics

Taunt Aura Slotting

The following powers now accept Taunt Enhancement Sets:

Spoiler

• Bio Armor
  •  Evolving Armor
  •  Genetic Contamination (Tanker/Brute only)
• Dark Armor
  •  Death Shroud (Tanker/Brute only)
  •  Cloak of Fear (Tanker/Brute only)
  •  Oppressive Gloom (Tanker/Brute only)
• Electric Armor
  •  Lightning Field (Tanker/Brute only)
• Energy Aura
  •  Entropic Aura
• Fiery Aura
  •  Blazing Aura (Tanker/Brute only)
• Ice Armor
  •  Chilling Embrace (Tanker/Brute only)
  •  Icicles (Tanker/Brute only)
• Invulnerability
  •  Invincibility
• Radiation Armor
  •  Beta Decay (Tanker/Brute only)
• Regeneration
  •  Integration (Brute only)
• Shield Defense
  •  Against All Odds
• Stone Armor
  •  Mud Pots (Tanker/Brute only)
• Super Reflexes
  •  Evasion (Tanker/Brute only)
• Willpower
  •  Rise to the Challenge

Accolades

•  Summon Workbench
  • Can now be summoned while flying (but must still target the ground)
• All active combat Accolade powers now recharge in 10 minutes (down from 25 minutes), but are no longer affected by global recharge buffs - this affects the following powers:
  •  Crey CBX-9 Pistol /  Stolen Immobilizer Ray
  •  Eye of the Magus /  Demonic Aura
  •  Geas of the Kind Ones /  Force of Nature
  •  Vanguard Medal /  Megalomaniac
  •  Elusive Mind
• Accolade powers with different alignment versions (eg: Vanguard Medal / Megalomaniac) can now be activated regardless of alignment, but will force the other version of the power into cooldown

[BrandX]

And why is Combat Jumping Suppressing with the Powers?  It already suppressed with Ninja Run, which was annoying.

 

I didn't even notice that one at first.  Guess I got fixated on Ninja Run.

 

So, a power commonly taken to add some more Defense, isn't going to work with a Defensed based set?

 

Sadly, seeing as how it wasn't taken out of Build 3, it looks like the idea is to keep the change.  😕

[ForeverLaxx]

So the completely arbitrary change with movement powers that does nothing but reduce the player experience is being left in? Why?

[General Idiot]

1 hour ago, ForeverLaxx said:

So the completely arbitrary change with movement powers that does nothing but reduce the player experience is being left in? Why?

And has attracted almost universally negative feedback to boot. I very much hope they're just taking time to decide on another way to accomplish whatever mysterious and still entirely unexplained thing they were trying to achieve with this rather than hard commiting to it.

 

Outside of PvP (where movement control matters a little more) there's literally no conceivable reason I can think of why this has to be changed other than some nebulous idea of consistency applied so thoroughly that what's actually fun to play isn't even being considered. And if it is really only PvP that's the reason this has to change? Please consider making this change only apply in PvP.

 

Let me be very clear: this is a change that actively harms the gameplay experience of every player with the affected power sets. That alone should be reason to reconsider it, and that by all appearances it doesn't seem to be is very concerning.

 

What's even more baffling is they gave the movement buff to the blaster version of Shinobi-Iri in the same patch they neutered its usefulness by having it no longer stack with movement powers. Why not just not give it the buff in the first place?

[aethereal]

Does literally anyone like the change to not allow shinobi-iri stack with ninja run/combat jumping?  In terms of feedback it's like 0 for 20.

[Zed]

Quote

Does literally anyone like the change to not allow shinobi-iri stack with ninja run/combat jumping?  In terms of feedback it's like 0 for 20.

 

At least in PvE, who or what does it bothers or break that much that this had to be changed with no explanation ?

It's definitely no exploit, no cheating... Certainly not a critical flaw either.

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

Does literally anyone like the change to not allow shinobi-iri stack with ninja run/combat jumping?  In terms of feedback it's like 0 for 20.

Absolutely no one likes this change or wants it.

 

Which absolutely guarantees that it's going live. That's how development works.

[Jimmy]

It may surprise you to learn that we don't have time to work on every feature between every build 🙂

[PeregrineFalcon]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

It may surprise you to learn that we don't have time to work on every feature between every build 🙂

Fair enough. But if I may ask. What exactly was it about the stacking of these powers that caused a problem that had to be solved?

[ABlueThingy]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Fair enough. But if I may ask. What exactly was it about the stacking of these powers that caused a problem that had to be solved?

 

I thought they changed it because the ninja powers were basically straight copies of the Ninja Run power.  And because ninja run doesn't stack with any of those powers it should follow the same logic.  Or that was my understanding?

[BrandX]

9 minutes ago, ABlueThingy said:

 

I thought they changed it because the ninja powers were basically straight copies of the Ninja Run power.  And because ninja run doesn't stack with any of those powers it should follow the same logic.  Or that was my understanding?

 

Shinobi-Iri gives less Run Speed than Ninja Run.

 

Terrible change still.

[Parabola]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

It may surprise you to learn that we don't have time to work on every feature between every build 🙂

Indeed. If I could make a couple of suggestions though? Where a change isn't being made due to an exploit would it be possible to provide a little commentary on the reasoning behind the change? It might also be an idea to feedback that further changes are being thought about/worked on if they aren't being included in a build. Otherwise it's all too easy to assume the change has been finalized.

[Mystic_Cross]

On 10/24/2020 at 7:43 AM, Jimmy said:

 

Taunt Aura Slotting

The following powers now accept Taunt Enhancement Sets:

  Reveal hidden contents

• Bio Armor
  •  Evolving Armor
  •  Genetic Contamination (Tanker/Brute only)
• Dark Armor
  •  Death Shroud (Tanker/Brute only)
  •  Cloak of Fear (Tanker/Brute only)
  •  Oppressive Gloom (Tanker/Brute only)
• Electric Armor
  •  Lightning Field (Tanker/Brute only)
• Energy Aura
  •  Entropic Aura
• Fiery Aura
  •  Blazing Aura (Tanker/Brute only)
• Ice Armor
  •  Chilling Embrace (Tanker/Brute only)
  •  Icicles (Tanker/Brute only)
• Invulnerability
  •  Invincibility
• Radiation Armor
  •  Beta Decay (Tanker/Brute only)
• Regeneration
  •  Integration (Brute only)
• Shield Defense
  •  Against All Odds
• Stone Armor
  •  Mud Pots (Tanker/Brute only)
• Super Reflexes
  •  Evasion (Tanker/Brute only)
• Willpower
  •  Rise to the Challenge

 

Question: Are Stalker versions of these powers supposed to be able to take taunt enhancements/sets now too? Because they do.

 

[Siderous]

3 hours ago, Jimmy said:

It may surprise you to learn that we don't have time to work on every feature between every build 🙂

So you're saying there is a chance.............  to change it back ;oP