Focused Feedback: Enhancements

[Jimmy]

46 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Why Damage though? Why not make them Accuracy, which EVERYONE can benefit from?

 

The tutorial always gave a damage enhancement. It's just been changed to be a SO-grade enhancement to coincide with the other changes.

 

Also, everyone can use it. You can't make a character that can't slot damage in their first primary or secondary power.

[Wavicle]

5 minutes ago, Lines said:

The yin talisman can be slotted by any origin. Unless you mean thematically.

 

Beginner's Luck already gives lowbie characters a +15% ToHit buff to tide them over for accuracy.

 

I think most toons could do with damage at level 1. I can't think of any who wouldn't benefit from that.

Yes, I meant thematically.

 

 Many Controllers do not have an ability at level 1 that is worth slotting for damage, or some might feel that way. But I understand your point.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Jimmy said:

The tutorial always gave a damage enhancement. It's just been changed to be a SO-grade enhancement to coincide with the other changes.

Fair. My point about the thematic nature of SOs remains. Is it not possible to make these drops origin specific?

[Saikochoro]

On 10/26/2020 at 5:57 AM, arthurh35353 said:

I want to double check, but I didn't see an option to redeem merits life for influence, I only saw the ability to pay 1mil for 1 merit (or something like that).

Easiest and quickest way to turn merits into influence is to use merits to buy enhancement converters under the special salvage tab at the merit vendor. 1 merit = 3 converters. 
 

You can list these for 60k and they should sell relatively quickly. Or you can just list them for 1 influence and they will sell instantly for 60-70k each. In my experience the extra few k you might get from not listing for 1 influence isn’t worth the time spent on the market if you already don’t want to use the market. 
 

This method can fund pretty much any build with very minimal time spent on the auction house. Literally just minutes listing  all the converters in stacks of 10 for 1 influence each and then grabbing the influence from instant sales.

 

I think converters are the best because they are ALWAYS in high demand due to people wanting to convert IOs. So it will never be a waste to buy and sale then even if it is the absolute most efficient use of them at that given moment. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Vanden]

47 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Yes, I meant thematically.

 

 Many Controllers do not have an ability at level 1 that is worth slotting for damage, or some might feel that way. But I understand your point.

Well, that's debatable. Almost every Controller primary has a level 1 power that follows the standard damage formula; for most of them, that's the single-target immobilize, which does scale 1 damage and recharges in 4 seconds (Fire's is 10% stronger because fire). Gravity and Mind have Lift and Levitate respectively, doing scale 1.32 damage with a 6s recharge. The only exception is Illusion, which has Spectral Wounds doing scale 1.64 damage with a 6s recharge, which puts it ahead of the formula, but if the enemy survives 10 seconds after being hit it gets healed for scale 0.64 damage, bringing the total down to scale 1 damage. Either way, every Controller gets a power at level 1 that you could consider an "attack."

[Saikochoro]

Apologies, I have not had the time to actually test this function out. However, I would like to express my thought about it with the caveat that using it in practice may be different than in theory. 
 

I never touched IOs on live. So, SOs were my bread and butter. I was also never rich in terms of influence on live. I began my foray into IOs and influence wealth near the beginning of 2020 on homecoming. So even a good chunk of time playing on homecoming I still used only SO/DOs. I now have the ability to skip low levels entirely with a PL account and can fund 500m builds the moment my new alt dings 50.  So, I have experience both as a poor SO only player and a rich uber build player.

 

So with that background out of the way:

 

I actually REALLY like this idea on paper. I am one of the people that hated the low levels even when I played on live. I never had much interest in story content and only wanted to level up as fast as possible with as many alts as possible. Hence, xp/min and efficiency was always my focus. 
 

However, part of the turnoff of the low levels was the fact that I can’t slot the set IOs that I want in the low levels. Also, the time it takes to slot and upgrade DO/SOs was enough for me to not want to bother even trying low levels. 
 

Giving low levels access to SOs basically from the get go helps immensely in terms of enjoyment at low levels due to having more power.  Being able to update SOs with a a few clicks right from the enhancement screen removes so much hassle from the process and enables you to keep a good power level. Less whiffing. More damage. Less mundane. All good things. 
 

This feature alone more than anything has actually peaked my interest to level a few alts organically without any IOs (baring maybe the ATO procs), without double XP, only things like reveal and ninja run from the P2W vendor, and no 500m trust fund from my older alts. No auction house. No farming. Just going out there and getting after all the content I ignored because I honestly just hated dealing with the low power of low levels and the slog. 
 

I know one of the main concerns for a lot of people are: how are the new players going to afford this? This is fair given that new players are likely the ones who would get the most value out of this feature. I would counter that by advising that playing content that offers reward merits makes funding SOs easy. Perhaps not for the first 5-7 levels, but once you get into posi territory you should never have problems funding SOs again.  

So, a more important question is: how do we inform new players on how to get reward merits starting from level 1 and how to convert those merits into influence to fund SOs. There are many simple ways, but getting them that info is important. 
 

I may change my mind once I actually start leveling a character organically with only SOs. But honestly, I am almost as excited for this feature as I am for the new energy melee. Great job team!

Edited November 10, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Wavicle]

You know it could be that SOs are just a lot more expensive than they really should be for what they do.

Maybe cut the price of TOs, DOs, and SOs (and associated Upgrade costs) all like in HALF.

[csr]

22 hours ago, Saikochoro said:

Easiest and quickest way to turn merits into influence is to use merits to buy enhancement converters under the special salvage tab at the merit vendor. 1 merit = 3 converters. 
 

You can list these for 60k and they should sell relatively quickly. Or you can just list them for 1 influence and they will sell instantly for 60-70k each. In my experience the extra few k you might get from not listing for 1 influence isn’t worth the time spent on the market if you already don’t want to use the market. 
 

This method can fund pretty much any build with very minimal time spent on the auction house. Literally just minutes listing  all the converters in stacks of 10 for 1 influence each and then grabbing the influence from instant sales.

 

I think converters are the best because they are ALWAYS in high demand due to people wanting to convert IOs. So it will never be a waste to buy and sale then even if it is the absolute most efficient use of them at that given moment. 

You get about 2/3rds as much selling Converters instantly as you do using slower but more efficient RM-to-INF conversion routes (you can earn still more by really working the market - I'm just talking about using Boosters and Unslotters - which have a higher return but more volatility).  Since we're talking 2-3M to fully SO a low level toon through the mid 20s that only amounts to a loss of about 1-1.5M INF going the quick-and-easy route.  That's not a lot for avoiding having to think or wait.  But you still do need to know what Reward Merits are, what Merit Vendors are, and how to use the AH.

[thunderforce]

6 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Maybe cut the price of TOs, DOs, and SOs (and associated Upgrade costs) all like in HALF.

This seems like a good idea. Right now SOs are frankly a bit of a noob trap (and I really feel sorry for the new player caught on the SO upgrade treadmill just because they don't know they could slot a plain IO and forget it). If nothing else, they could be made a cheaper noob trap. If I'm not mistaken, since SCORE got rid of the insane variable pricing, vendors buy at 40% of base price - so to-player prices could be cut by half without to-vendor prices being changed at all (avoiding knockon effects from changing the price paid for vendor trash).

Edited November 11, 2020 by thunderforce

[Ukase]

On 10/24/2020 at 6:10 PM, Crowe said:

Seems like a waste of development effort, to be honest. I don't know anyone who used store-bought enhancements for stuff other than their first character or for a couple of key powers for a rush-Posi.  Don't get me wrong -- it's a cool idea and all.  But anyone who regularly plays is going to tell people not to use TO/DO/SOs anyway.

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Ukase
Figured it wasn't truly constructive. Disregard, please.

[thunderforce]

1 minute ago, Ukase said:

I literally have billions of inf. And I still use SOs from as early as I can get them to level 27. Why? Because they are superior to Common IOs. They are superior to set IOs - but I will use those for the set bonuses, particularly the ATOs.

They're not necessarily superior. If you want all the things the multiple-aspect IO does, a +0 SO is outperformed by a level 21 dual aspect IO or a level 18 triple aspect (or a still lower four-aspect but the Wiki doesn't have the specific number). Even a +3 SO - and unless you are very space rich, you won't have +3s all the time - is outperformed by level 20 triple-aspect IOs or level 24 dual-aspect IOs.

 

... and all this is before you count set bonuses, or just the fact that you can dump the attuned IO in there and forget about it for the next 30 levels.

[mechahamham]

I went into the Beta with a new, level 1 scrapper and played through Matthew Hashaby's arc.

 

Before, a new player could reasonably buy a couple of enhancers off the vendors with those first few missions. Now I can afford only one or two DOs, with a generous amount of street-sweeping and selling all my drops.

 

There's discussion about this, but it seems wrong and counter-intuitive to me. I think the price on those low-level DOs should be the same prices you'd find on TOs of the same level.

Edited November 17, 2020 by mechahamham

[mechahamham]

The 'Upgrade' button on the Enhancement screen doesn't show the amount of inf a player currently has. And if the player doesn't have enough influence to cover the upgrade, it fails without any kind of error like 'You don't have enough inf for that'.

[Faultline]

Some posts have been hidden. Discussion on enhancement scaling due to exemplar is off-topic on this thread; it isn't a new or modified feature in Issue 27. Please make a new thread if you want to discuss that mechanic.

[0th Power]

I tried this out just to see the other day, I know I will IO out fewer characters now with this. 

[Jacke]

23 hours ago, mechahamham said:

I went into the Beta with a new, level 1 scrapper and played through Matthew Hashaby's arc.

 

Before, a new player could reasonably buy a couple of enhancers off the vendors with those first few missions. Now I can afford only one or two DOs, with a generous amount of street-sweeping and selling all my drops.

 

There's discussion about this, but it seems wrong and counter-intuitive to me. I think the price on those low-level DOs should be the same prices you'd find on TOs of the same level.

 

I've had this concern as well.  I started a few new heroes on Homecoming Live in the past few weeks.  As a test, I decided instead of bankrolling them with an initial draft of Influence, I'd just have them use what they earn themselves.  I didn't use XP return rate boosters from P2W that lowered Influence rewards.  I also stuck to traditional low level City play.

 

Even buying TOs and eventually DOs, I see them barely able to fill the slots with enhancements as they level, from drops and what they can purchase.  If SOs dropped, that would be grand.  But I wondered if the toons could afford to buy enough.

 

I think the shift to low-level SOs is a good idea, but the rewards in XP, Influence, and SO drops low level toons normally gain may not be enough for them to keep their slots enhanced.  It feels similar to the issue that used to be encountered in the early Issues of the game in a toon's 30's and the 40's, before changes to levelling rewards were adjusted.

[Wavicle]

3 hours ago, Jacke said:

 

I've had this concern as well.  I started a few new heroes on Homecoming Live in the past few weeks.  As a test, I decided instead of bankrolling them with an initial draft of Influence, I'd just have them use what they earn themselves.  I didn't use XP return rate boosters from P2W that lowered Influence rewards.  I also stuck to traditional low level City play.

 

Even buying TOs and eventually DOs, I see them barely able to fill the slots with enhancements as they level, from drops and what they can purchase.  If SOs dropped, that would be grand.  But I wondered if the toons could afford to buy enough.

 

I think the shift to low-level SOs is a good idea, but the rewards in XP, Influence, and SO drops low level toons normally gain may not be enough for them to keep their slots enhanced.  It feels similar to the issue that used to be encountered in the early Issues of the game in a toon's 30's and the 40's, before changes to levelling rewards were adjusted.

You are expected to sell drops on the AH to fund yourself. 

[Faultline]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

You are expected to sell drops on the AH to fund yourself. 

An early source of income is Merit Reward drops, either from the arcs or from Exploration accolades. One merit will purchase 3 Enhancement Converters, which sell for 50-100k influence each at the market, depending on demand at the time. If you have five merits, you can purchase an Enhancement Booster which will sell for over a million influence in the market. That should cover all your low-level SO needs. Seriously, use the market.

[Saikochoro]

1 hour ago, Faultline said:

An early source of income is Merit Reward drops, either from the arcs or from Exploration accolades. One merit will purchase 3 Enhancement Converters, which sell for 50-100k influence each at the market, depending on demand at the time. If you have five merits, you can purchase an Enhancement Booster which will sell for over a million influence in the market. That should cover all your low-level SO needs. Seriously, use the market.

Reward merits will definitely be able to fund the SO needs. 
 

One thing I’d like to mention. While I do very much like this system and the upgrade feature, people still need to be careful in using it. I personally think it is perfect as is, but I could see people going broke if they use it too liberally. 
 

I was doing some testing on it and when I hit the upgrade button with a full set of SOs at level 10 it cost 262,008 to upgrade all the SOs.  Merit rewards are more than enough to cover this cost every few levels.
 

However, if people try upgrading every single time they level up they could end up wasting a lot of influence. I suggest people only use the upgrade button every 3-5 levels. If someone just completed a task force and got a lot of merits, by all means upgrade more often.  However, upgrading every 3-5 levels will still help people maintain good enhancement levels whilst not wasting a lot of influence on unnecessary upgrades. 
 

Again, I think the system is awesome. People just need to be conscious of how often they use it is all. Merit rewards can easily fund a reasonable frequency of upgrades. 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Seed22]

20 hours ago, 0th Power said:

I tried this out just to see the other day, I know I will IO out fewer characters now with this. 

Do you mean post-50 or leveling? I'm liking the new changes due to being able to have a softer cushion to the green pastures that is lvl 27+ for IO'ing a build(in earnest, at least). But I can't really see this proving to be beneficial post-50.

 

Also! I wonder if this'll really ease up redside. With SO's in play earlier, things like goldbrickers and such should theoretically be less punishing! Maybe we'll see an increase in contact-based content being played(which, on either side, I would love to form a team for once this gets live!)

Edited November 18, 2020 by Seed22

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

Do you mean post-50 or leveling? I'm liking the new changes due to being able to have a softer cushion to the green pastures that is lvl 27+ for IO'ing a build(in earnest, at least). But I can't really see this proving to be beneficial post-50.

 

Also! I wonder if this'll really ease up redside. With SO's in play earlier, things like goldbrickers and such should theoretically be less punishing! Maybe we'll see an increase in contact-based content being played(which, on either side, I would love to form a team for once this gets live!)

I think I'll still head to IOs by 27 or 32 which is what I do now anyway.

[0th Power]

3 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Do you mean post-50 or leveling?

Leveling, but don’t generally play my level 50s anyways. 

[csr]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

I think I'll still head to IOs by 27 or 32 which is what I do now anyway.

For me it will consistently push IO slotting from 22 to 27 with significantly more IO sets and less common IOs.

[Seed22]

23 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I think I'll still head to IOs by 27 or 32 which is what I do now anyway.

Same. This change still helps me get to that point with less hassle though, which I am for sure glad for! Most IO's barring the typical Panacea and ATIOs, require me to be at least 22-27. With more of my builds leaning  to 27+, much to my frustration 😂

Edited November 19, 2020 by Seed22

[mechahamham]

On 11/18/2020 at 7:43 PM, Faultline said:

An early source of income is Merit Reward drops, either from the arcs or from Exploration accolades. One merit will purchase 3 Enhancement Converters, which sell for 50-100k influence each at the market, depending on demand at the time. If you have five merits, you can purchase an Enhancement Booster which will sell for over a million influence in the market. That should cover all your low-level SO needs. Seriously, use the market.

 

This is great for existing players, but we do still get new players from time to time. (And they promptly get sucked into AE farms. Srsly, farmers, quit doing that. I had a player in their 20s ask if they had to stand by the door on a regular mission team this week.)

 

For the truly new players, and those who are returning from a hiatus since before i9, a little more guidance should be provided. Not only is our Consignment system a little more complex that most MMO auction houses, but it's not immediately obvious what can and does sell, especially with the 'last sell price' feature bugged out.

 

I stand what I said before, that the price on DOs (not SOs) should be lowered so that they can be reasonably bought from vendors. I'd like to see a (?) symbol or some other kind of help or tooltip next to the 'Upgrade' button that explains WHAT it's going to do before the player clicks it out of curiosity.

 

Finally, I'd like to see a Shady-looking 'Auction Informant' NPC in a conspicuous place in Atlas and Mercy (I'm thinking not too far from Ms. Liberty) that says something like the following:

 

Psst. Hey, Pal. Wanna learn a little bit about making money?

 

> Sure!

> No, I'm good, really.

> Is this a scam?

 

It ain't a scam. You think I could get away with scamming folks in *this* city?! Nah, I work for the Chamber of Commerce, which is probably worse. We're trying to get super-powered individuals such as yourself spending more money in town, but the economy has changed a lot over time. I'm supposed to tell you how to *make* more money so you can *spend* more money.

 

As you do missions for folks around here, you'll tend to pick up 'merit rewards', especially after you do something really amazing like fight a giant monster or finish a campaign against enemy forces. Stuff like that. Heck, you can even earn them simply for exploring. You can trade those merit rewards in at that ATM-lookin' terminal over there, yeah, past the statue. Sometimes there'll be folks standing around in red and gold uniforms to take 'em as well. If need some quick cash to further your endeavors, you can trade your merits for things like enhancement converters or boosters. Those tend to sell reasonably well right now at the local consignment house, and should get you, and some of the local merchants around here, more liquidity.

 

> Where do I sell them? Where's the consignment house?

 

East of here. Round building with a transparent ceiling. Kinda hard to miss, actually.

 

> Can't I just trade my merits directly for enhancements or other goodies?

 

You can, and many choose to do that. I recommend talking to the folks at Paragon City University in Steel Canyon. They'll tell you a lot about how to invent your own equipment. I'm just telling you about a good way to get started. Like I said, the economy has changed a lot around here and'll probably change in the future. I'll try to keep up-to-date information on hand so you don't get shafted too badly.