Lower damage taken requirement for BiB

[fitzsimmons]

Born in Battle requires the Ironman badge, requiring you to take a million points of damage.  This only promotes damage farming.  By the time I hit 50 I often have less than 500k points of damage taken.

 

Can this be lowered to 100,000?

 

For your consideration.

 

Regards,

Dave

Edited November 1, 2020 by fitzsimmons

[CrudeVileTerror]

I think all of the "Farm X amount of Y" Badges could use a serious looking at.

Ideally they would work on a sliding scale based on level:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/9967-born-in-battle-500k-damage-badge-plz/?tab=comments#comment-90184

[Ruin Mage]

Eh, I think its fine as is. Or maybe it doesn't need such a drastic lowering (i.e a million down to 100k)

Some/most badges that require effort and time should remain that way.

[ninja surprise]

Nah, it shows who's taking the damage. My resist-based tanks can get that no problem. My defense-based scrappers never (hopefully) will. Blasters may get it eventually.

Same with the debt badges, but in the opposite order.

[fitzsimmons]

3 hours ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

I think all of the "Farm X amount of Y" Badges could use a serious looking at.

Ideally they would work on a sliding scale based on level:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/9967-born-in-battle-500k-damage-badge-plz/?tab=comments#comment-90184

Thanks for pointing me to the other post back in September of last year.  Sounds reasonable enough but as for implementation, I'd imagine changing the raw value would be easier and I'd be OK with 500k instead of 100k.  I am resorting to damage farming for many of my toons.  I'm sure others are in the same boat, if they want the BiB accolade.

 

Regards,
Dave

[Outrider_01]

I farmed damage way back in the day, hit rest next to a CoT damage crystal.  Not sure how, managed for rest to start without being interrupted and came back hours later as the damage ticked down with zero resist and high regen.  Might of stood next to the crystals, I forget.  Otherwise finding a single low damage minion or two with rest might work, as long as they have low damage attacks.

[fitzsimmons]

Yeah I take a knee in front of a white or yellow cot defender.  Depending on the archetype, I do that in front of 1 or 2 of them.

 

Haven't been able to kneel in a red crytal.

[CrudeVileTerror]

Kneel next to one and have someone nudge you in to range.

 

But in any event; having to farm these Badges just feels terribly contrary to using the Badges as positive reinforcement for acceptable gameplay.  I do hope the Devs take a look at this and recontextualize Badge requirements with the modern understanding that this game doesn't need to be a time sink.

[Razor Cure]

On 11/2/2020 at 12:57 AM, Shadeknight said:

Some/most badges that require effort and time should remain that way.

Yeah..like redside ones.

Two main problems.

BiB needing stupid high damage taken.

Marshall needing a lvl 45+ task force badge (which isnt AS bad now RSF is mostly steamrolled).

Another candiate..Invader. Needs badges from high level mayhems too. Sure, you CAN do that with an alt/friend with teh special contact, but for 'normal' gameplay? That is TWO of the 4 main redside accos locked behind level 45. Blueside only has one..sorta. Since maria you can do the exact same thing and jump on a team donig her arc.

[Mr. Vee]

I do Atlas and PJ blue and HPT, Invader, Demonic on red (though my hordeling kills are done in KR). Usually done by 32 with all of them. Really if you're doing all of them on one side there's some suffering either way. If forced to do them all on one side I'd take damage farming over synapse/citadel/numina and fake nem hunts in a second.

[Burnt Toast]

On 11/1/2020 at 8:51 PM, CrudeVileTerror said:

Kneel next to one and have someone nudge you in to range.

 

But in any event; having to farm these Badges just feels terribly contrary to using the Badges as positive reinforcement for acceptable gameplay.  I do hope the Devs take a look at this and recontextualize Badge requirements with the modern understanding that this game doesn't need to be a time sink.

"Having to farm these Badges" .... uhhhhh you don't have to. You feel compelled to, but you are not required. Acceptable gameplay has different meaning to different people. 

[Ukase]

On 10/31/2020 at 11:00 PM, fitzsimmons said:

Born in Battle requires the Ironman badge, requiring you to take a million points of damage.  This only promotes damage farming.  By the time I hit 50 I often have less than 500k points of damage taken.

 

Can this be lowered to 100,000?

 

For your consideration.

 

Regards,

Dave

I'm not a mind reader, but I suspect the old devs had imagined those few players who didn't alt much, if at all, and would play their characters so often that they would eventually get the badge organically. 
Then players began to really like the badges, and pursue them, making it almost a game within the game. A somewhat healthy competition ensued, having some badge characters really think outside the box, like longbow wardens in the arena giving them credit for healing badges. 

Yes, farming for damage, or heals, or anything is repetitive and tedious. This isn't up for debate. It's a fact. But is it really a bad thing? Back in the day, a villain would have opted to do the tip missions and change morality, and get that accolade on blue side; it's easier/faster now with Null the Gull - if it's just the accolade your after. A team of 8 can start at villain/rogue, end up as vigilantes/hero and get all 4 passive accolades in an hour easily. 

Let's also consider the players who may have gotten those badges organically. I can't imagine who they'd be...but they are out there. And how would they feel, knowing you just got the same badge for doing 1/10th of what they did? Let's also consider those who have farmed the damage before you. Suddenly, the time they spent farming damage is wasted; yes they still have the badge, but they had to spend more time than you to get it. Is that fair? I think not. 

Go blue side, get your accolade. Get t-4'd in your pursuit of great power. Work on ALL the other badges (if that's your thing) and see where you are when nothing is left but the big ones - Damage dealt, damage taken, inf earned, recipes rejected. The heal badges- with the soldiers at Mercy are trivial now. The stun/mez badges are also rather simple, once you determine the method best for you. 
You'll find you have to farm a lot less from having played organically. 

 

[CrudeVileTerror]

We're no more required to get Badges than we are to play any other part of the game or required to experience any other piece of content.

Badges are a part of the game.

Suggesting that people disregard them or choose not to provide critical feedback when there's something fundamentally flawed in their implementation is akin to saying that people disregard level 50.  After all, no one is required to play at level 50.  People are just compelled to.

 

Anything that is a part of the game is -a part of the game.-  It's all valid, and it's all subject to criticism for its flaws.

[Ruin Mage]

On 11/1/2020 at 9:51 PM, CrudeVileTerror said:

I do hope the Devs take a look at this and recontextualize Badge requirements with the modern understanding that this game doesn't need to be a time sink.

I hope they don't.

Badges are an optional time sink. The only ones that make half a difference in anything are the passive accolade ones, and honestly? Most of them are easy to get for the blueside versions.

Not everything has to be modernized in an MMO that's from 2004 to 2012. I'm all for QOL, but there's QOL and then there's this.

 

[fitzsimmons]

I just go after the 4 passives and Demonic Aura.  I get all red except Marshal.  I go for Marshal's blue-side equivalent, Atlas Medallion on blue.

 

I wasn't minimizing badging and I appreciate the changes made in this area either by this team or on live (I don't know):

 

- a single contact for all mayhem missions (red)

- gangbuster is now any family members (red)

- no longer need to trap ghosts (red)

- all kills except Scrappy and the hordelings can be done in Port Oakes (red)

- wolf and vamp kills in Striga (blue)

 

The only one I need to afk farm is the damage one on the majority of my level 50+ toons.  That was my intention with this post.  It's a 1 to 3 hour afk farm, not difficult but probably not necessary.

 

Regards,
Dave

[Razor Cure]

9 hours ago, fitzsimmons said:

- gangbuster is now any family members (red)

Wow, is it? That doesnt seem right. ANy family at all? Or just bosses?

[fitzsimmons]

31 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

Wow, is it? That doesnt seem right. ANy family at all? Or just bosses?

It's right.

[macskull]

Gangbuster is minions and lieutenants now, not bosses (those have a separate badge). Still, if I'm in a "just get this done" mood I can get 3 of the 4 passive accolades redside in around 2 hours not counting damage farming time (another few hours that can be done while I'm off doing something else so I don't count it as time spent).

 

I recognize that some of these badges are more difficult for certain characters to get (damage taken, debt, etc.) so I just knock them out all at once so it is the same process regardless of which character I'm getting them on.

Edited November 4, 2020 by macskull

[tidge]

The Ironman badge... UGH. I will say that this is one badge required for an accolade (without switching sides) that seems exceptionally disproportionate in the availability to achieve. Some AT simply don't have the HP (and/or healing/regeneration ability) to be anywhere close to earning this by level 45.

 

Often what I'll do when I want to work on that Badge (because I'm Redside and deep into Grandville) is to make runs through Recluse's Victory to let the bunkers have their shots at me.

 

In contrast, every AT has the same XP bank to make 'debt-withdrawals' from: If I haven't gotten the debt badge I want/need by level 45, I will pop into Dark Astoria and just start street sweeping. Eventually I'll run into something that will clobber me, and voila I am on the way to paying off debt.

[kelika2]

I dunno about you folks but whenever I get a badge I want as a title or something that goes with my character I almost instantly forget about it

[NECR0]

On 11/4/2020 at 8:48 AM, tidge said:

The Ironman badge... UGH. I will say that this is one badge required for an accolade (without switching sides) that seems exceptionally disproportionate in the availability to achieve. Some AT simply don't have the HP (and/or healing/regeneration ability) to be anywhere close to earning this by level 45.

 

Often what I'll do when I want to work on that Badge (because I'm Redside and deep into Grandville) is to make runs through Recluse's Victory to let the bunkers have their shots at me.

 

In contrast, every AT has the same XP bank to make 'debt-withdrawals' from: If I haven't gotten the debt badge I want/need by level 45, I will pop into Dark Astoria and just start street sweeping. Eventually I'll run into something that will clobber me, and voila I am on the way to paying off debt.

This badge used to be 10 million so it has already been reduced.

[tidge]

I noticed the reduced amount recently, I was surprised to get it (on a squishy) just after hitting level 50.

[DreadShinobi]

On 11/1/2020 at 5:57 AM, Shadeknight said:

Eh, I think its fine as is. Or maybe it doesn't need such a drastic lowering (i.e a million down to 100k)

Some/most badges that require effort and time should remain that way.

 

What? Time and effort is defined by resting in front of a CoT crossbow minion, going to sleep, and waking up to badge progress? This is poor game design, the badge system in CoH is great. Badges that encourage afk farming of credit are poorly designed. 

 

Yes if you put "effort" into grinding out a number that is then reduced it doesn't feel great, but it is otherwise a healthy change for the game as a whole. This is coming from someone who earned Empath back on live before it was reduced via overnight arena heal farms and did all the organization to gather interested parties and set up the event day after day. Earning Empath was an *intense* grind, but any grind that is based on keeping your character logged in while you're sleeping is not in the spirit of this game.

[arcane]

On 10/31/2020 at 11:00 PM, fitzsimmons said:

Born in Battle requires the Ironman badge

Or a hero accolade that requires no afk farming and a quick alignment swap. Just saying.

[Lazarillo]

On 11/1/2020 at 7:57 AM, Shadeknight said:

Some/most badges that require effort and time should remain that way.

I mean, granted, but in this case, neither time nor effort is really a meaningful way to obtain it, and the kicker is the involvement in an Accolade power, which can have a not-unreasonable effect on character performance.

 

A ridiculous grind for the "Leader" badge, which is the 6th in a series of 6 and has no meaningful effect on play?  I'm all for it!  But in this case, dropping the Born In Battle requirement down from Ironman to Hard Case is probably not such a bad idea, especially if you compare overall Accolade requirements between factions.