Best Melee AT to take support pools?

[Menelruin]

So I know in general it's not really worth it to take pools like Medicine, etc, as compared to just taking a support AT, but if you want to do one for theme/concept's sake, which one is LEAST BAD, if you want to take those?  Was hoping to do something with Sword and Regen........

[LiquidBandage]

You need to provide more context. Your question is meaningless. 

[Menelruin]

8 minutes ago, LiquidBandage said:

You need to provide more context. Your question is meaningless. 

I want to make a character who uses a sword, has the regen pool, and takes the Medicine pool, and possibly the buffs from Experimentation.  Given those requirements, which AT will be hurt least by this?

[Machariel]

Scrapper, but why do you care which is most effective if you're already gimping yourself?

[Menelruin]

To minimize how MUCH it gimps me?

[Coyote]

1 hour ago, Menelruin said:

To minimize how MUCH it gimps me?

 

So instead of min-maxing, that would be like min-minning? 😁

[Greycat]

3 hours ago, Machariel said:

Scrapper, but why do you care which is most effective if you're already gimping yourself?

I really wish people would stop with the "gimping" thing. Not everything has to be "OMG I got eleventybillion DPS and capped my capping cap!" There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying something different out, especially when there have been occasional posts about trying to figure out a melee/support character since live - which is exactly what this sounds like.

 

"Gimping" always comes off as a fairly derogatory term. If you wouldn't play it, fine, don't play it. But comments like this one just sound like putdowns.

[CrudeVileTerror]

According to my in-game check . . .

 

Aid Other, at Level 50:

All Standard Melee Archetypes:  188.91 HP

Windows and Soldiers:  157.42 HP

Defender (for comparison):  262.37 HP

 

Experimental Injection, at 50:

All Standard Melee Archetypes:  4.84 Status Protection

Widows and Soldiers:  6.92 Status Protection

Defender:  8.65 Status Protection

Regeneration Rate and Recovery Rate unchanged for all Archetypes.

 

Leadership Toggles (Maneuvers, Tactics, Assault):

Stalker, Scrapper:  2.27% Defense, 7.00% To-Hit, 10.50% Damage Buff

Brute:  2.63% Defense, 7.00% To-Hit, 10.50% Damage Buff

Tanker:  2.63% Defense, 10.00% To-Hit, 15.00% Damage Buff

Widow, Soldier:  3.50% Defense, 10.00% To-Hit, 15.00% Damage Buff

Defender:  3.50% Defense, 12.50% To-Hit, 18.75% Damage Buff

 

Note:  Field Medic doesn't change based on Archetype.

[Crater Kate]

Tankers are also the AT that keep themselves alive the best, so not only is their Leadership pool better, but they're gonna be more capable of focusing on Medicine pool things than the others. They get my vote!

[Doomguide2005]

Not sure which melee AT is the best question.  Quite a difference between a pure Resist and pure Defense set for using Medicine Pool mid-combat, for instance.  Unless one wants to assume the Resist set is also at the defense caps.  

 

And purely from the above post by @CrudeVileTerror I'd strongly be looking at a VEAT as well as, for example, an SR Tanker.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Doomguide2005
Afterthought

[Heraclea]

Stalker with a defense oriented armor set like Ninjitsu.  If you're using Heal Other it's interruptible, so solid stealth and a defense based on not getting hit will help a whole lot with your quest. 

[tidge]

15 hours ago, Menelruin said:

So I know in general it's not really worth it to take pools like Medicine, etc, as compared to just taking a support AT, but if you want to do one for theme/concept's sake, which one is LEAST BAD, if you want to take those?  Was hoping to do something with Sword and Regen........

 

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Not sure which melee AT is the best question.  Quite a difference between a pure Resist and pure Defense set for using Medicine Pool mid-combat, for instance.  Unless one wants to assume the Resist set is also at the defense caps.  

 

And purely from the above post by @CrudeVileTerror I'd strongly be looking at a VEAT as well as, for example, an SR Tanker.

 

You can probably even defend Medicine as a choice for a Crab, if you are also (eventually, at higher levels) going to have a lot of pets out. The visuals will probably not be what you are looking for.

 

If you want to fight with a Sword, and use the Medicine pool as well, you probably want to lean into higher Defenses. I will like Willpower or Super Reflexes may be the Defensive sets that are somewhat self-sufficient to allow you to cast the heals.

 

Note that if the healing isn't going to be a major part of your play, you can stock up on Team Inspirations to do group healing.

[Patti]

Didn't they specify say that it was regeneration?  Then it's down to stalker brute and scraper until they add regeneration tanks.

[Doomguide2005]

Yes, looking back the OP was hoping to do something with Sword and Regen.  Going to need to get a lot of defense from some where, sets, buffs, inspires or the long interrupt and cast times will make successful employment of Medicine pool powers problematic on a good day.  Is it possible, sure.  If you can get capped defenses on a blaster you can do it for basically any AT and sets.  

[Troo]

19 hours ago, Menelruin said:

So I know in general it's not really worth it to take pools like Medicine, etc, as compared to just taking a support AT, but if you want to do one for theme/concept's sake, which one is LEAST BAD, if you want to take those?  Was hoping to do something with Sword and Regen........

A Brute or Tanker provide more HP, so I'd start there.

Something like Super Reflexes is able to get good numbers with minimal slotting.

Shield can I think do it with just three power picks (just have to keep 2-3 teammates around)

 

That's what I would be looking at to free up power selection spots for pool powers or the epic powers.

 

Shield with just the Fighting Pool can provide 44+ Melee, Ranged, AoE pretty easily. It's a good base to start building off of, and can all be had by reasonable level. One example:

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Menelruin]

I'd prefer Regeneration for theme, but honestly, Willpower is more Regen than Regen is, so it could work.....

[Patti]

If not regen or willpower what about bio carapace?

[Riverdusk]

13 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

I'd prefer Regeneration for theme, but honestly, Willpower is more Regen than Regen is, so it could work.....

Willpower I think would be better as it doesn't otherwise have a heal, just regen, so it could come in handy sometimes.  It also has some defense to work with.

[Menelruin]

4 minutes ago, Patti said:

If not regen or willpower what about bio carapace?

Maybe, straying a bit further in terms of looks, but I suppose it might be closer in terms of theme of "active healing" abilities.

[Machariel]

18 hours ago, Greycat said:

I really wish people would stop with the "gimping" thing. Not everything has to be "OMG I got eleventybillion DPS and capped my capping cap!" There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying something different out, especially when there have been occasional posts about trying to figure out a melee/support character since live - which is exactly what this sounds like.

 

"Gimping" always comes off as a fairly derogatory term. If you wouldn't play it, fine, don't play it. But comments like this one just sound like putdowns.

I mean, I didn't say that it should be, but enjoy your upvotes.  I just think it's weird to say "well for my concept I want to do x y and z" but then draw the line at "which AT will have the best performance under that condition?" Like... just pick whichever AT fits your concept the best.   Doesn't matter to me 🙂

[CrudeVileTerror]

This is a pipedream at this point, @Menelruin, but . . . if it were possible, would your concept be served well as an Empathy / Broad Sword [insert new/imaginary Archetype name here]?

[Menelruin]

2 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

This is a pipedream at this point, @Menelruin, but . . . if it were possible, would your concept be served well as an Empathy / Broad Sword [insert new/imaginary Archetype name here]?

What would be absolutely IDEAL would be Poison/Broad Sword, as a combined mesh of biokinesis, like Elixir from X-Men.

[Sakai]

Ooh. Are you making a paladin?

[Menelruin]

9 hours ago, Sakai said:

Ooh. Are you making a paladin?

Quasi, maybe?  My concept was that someone can produce both healing and detrimental bio-compounds, but then uses a sword as an "applicator" for the negative ones, since he doesn't have fangs or claws or anything.  Though if a paladin were an ACTUAL option, I would've made one long ago....

[LiquidBandage]

There are a couple good options for a Melee character, and a couple useful ones too. 

 

The Sorcery pool is excellent. 

Spirit Ward is a great compliment for grouping if you aren't the one taking damage (i.e. if you have a Brute/Tank taking the brunt of most attacks). If the tank has aggro, your target will be focused on them and you can just fire the power off at any point without having to retarget. It also does not generate any aggro. Plus you can use it on the tank prior to a pull.

Arcane Bolt is a good ranged power, which is useful to a melee class. Plus it does KnockDown.

Mystic Flight is generally really useful and a stepping stone for Rune of Protection if you think you'd need it.

 

For your Poison/Broadsword concept, look into Experimentation. Most of the powers in that pool thematically could fit into your character. 

 

As for an Elixir inspired character itself, regeneration is sorta handled in two ways currently. Thematically you might want regeneration to be wounds "dramatically healing" right in front of your eyes, and +regen powers sorta do that, but at a much slower rate making it not very dramatic. Plus it is usually one big hit, the character is still alive, a pause in the action allows for regeneration to occur (cue the dramatic camera angle) then they stand up all healed. The other way regeneration is handled is through Absorption (usually short interval applications of a damage shield) to functionally act like the dramatic movie style regeneration. In game terms, Absorption kinda bridges the gap mechanically, but it does not thematically fit the bill. With absorption you get a secondary hit point pool that gets drawn upon before your main hit point pool. The periodic application of a absorption shield can possibly give you a breather to regenerate, but if you are under constant assault you will quickly wither. 

 

City of Heroes rarely affords the dramatic pause in combat for a regenerator to come back from the brink. You either have defenses or combined debuffs and enough offense to stem the tide or you get overrun and smothered by the onslaught. Take a look at one of the recent discussions on how to revamp Regen. They talk about how to make a regenerator feel/operate more like a regenerating powered being (iirc) instead of a combined healing/absorption/regen mishmash that is Regeneration currently. For your purposes, look at Regeneration, Willpower and maybe Bio Armor (if you can handle the aesthetics). 

 

There aren't any/enough weaponed melee pool powers to build a concept around if you came at it from the other end of things (a Defender or whatever) to focus on the healing aspect. Your only real options at this point are the Medicine pool and Sorcery on a melee character. The concept (weaponed melee + self healing + healing others) kinda lands in a void zone for power sets.